Author Topic: The Non-JT Minutes Problem  (Read 892 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The Non-JT Minutes Problem
« on: February 03, 2023, 10:31:16 PM »

Offline jpotter33

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47892
  • Tommy Points: 2906
https://twitter.com/HoopsEmpire_/status/1621536368424779776?s=20&t=yccqmXFTEHL9D274ZL9qkw

Quote
For the “Tatum cant win MVP, his team is too good” crowd:

T5 MVP candidates on/off net rating swing:

Tatum: +12.63 (9.58 on/-3.05 off)
➼ Giannis: +5.49 (4.88 on/-0.61 off)
➼ Embiid: +10.95 (8.98 on/-1.97 off)
➼ Luka: +8.70 (3.54 on/-5.16 off)

And then ofc Jokic at +21.27
Quote
While Jokic is running away with most of these stats (and probably the award)…the argument against Tatum is nothing but the success of other players.

I don’t care how good his team is, in a nearly 1K minute sample they post a significantly negative net rating…
Quote
The Celtics without Tatum have a worse net rating than the bucks without Giannis and the Sixers without Embiid, and on the flip side with Tatum, have a better net rating than the same two…
Quote
The Celtics offensive rating with Tatum on the floor is 121.42. That would be the runaway best offense in the league.

The Celtics offensive rating without Tatum is 109.4. That would be worse than any team save Houston and charlotte, despite him having such a great team.
Quote
Again, like I said before, that argument that Tatum can’t be mvp because of his team is beat. Makes no sense. They consistently fail to put out even an average product with him on the bench. And this has been true for years.

Glad we could clear that up.

Saw this relevant Twitter thread, and I think it verifies what many of us perceive during games - we're an average at best team when JT sits.

We're going to have to figure this out, because we can't run JT into the ground again before the playoffs, as we saw what happened late in the playoffs from him being spent. As good as JB is, he's primarily a player that can get his own but doesn't necessarily make his teammates better or create plays for them.

Are there things we can do at the deadline to help address some of these issues? If the Nets end up going the fire sale route, TJ Warren could potentially help in this regard. But I also feel like our secondary guards in White and Brogdon need to do a better job of playmaking and less looing for their own shot when Tatum is out, as both have been fairly lopsided in their score-first approach this year thus far.

Re: The Non-JT Minutes Problem
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2023, 11:30:44 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8088
  • Tommy Points: 941
Interesting. I would love to see those stats with Jordan, Duncan, Kobe, Magic  and Bird as well. Call it a hunch, but most teams without their superstar are significantly worse.

Tatum is truly our MVP and probably top 2 in the league now as well. He continues to do so much on the court beyond scoring.

Yes, I agree, his minutes need to be lessoned as well or we risk late playoff burnout again.

Re: The Non-JT Minutes Problem
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2023, 11:47:43 PM »

Offline angryguy77

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7187
  • Tommy Points: 590
The things they could do is show up and put teams away early.

I don't think any additions to this teams roster will keep games like tonight from happening.  It's all mental and effort with them. Add in Mazz who's clueless and the hill gets that much bigger to climb.
Still don't believe in Joe.

Re: The Non-JT Minutes Problem
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2023, 10:04:07 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
On/off differential per 100 possessions. Been extolling its importance for years
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: The Non-JT Minutes Problem
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2023, 08:53:58 AM »

Offline Redz

  • Punner
  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30893
  • Tommy Points: 3765
  • Yup
The things they could do is show up and put teams away early.

I don't think any additions to this teams roster will keep games like tonight from happening.  It's all mental and effort with them. Add in Mazz who's clueless and the hill gets that much bigger to climb.

They are still very prone to complacency.  It’s maddening because I don’t think they lack the will to win or are unwilling to give their all, they just sometimes play a lot worse when the other team responds.

Very strange.  And yet with the talent they have they can still win it all even with making it a thousand times more difficult than it need be.
Yup