Jaylen and his Anti-Semitic Friends (split)

[timpiker]

I am sick of it.  You ain't as smart as you think you are Jaylen. 

[ETNCeltics]

It's interesting that some of the same people who are finding excuses or trying to minimize the actions of 26 year old Jaylen Brown are some of the same that were excoriating the Bruins for signing a guy who committed racist acts when he was 14 years old. 14.

If Brown were suspended by the NBA, there'd be righteous indignation everywhere, but the NHL says Mitchell Miller is ineligible to even play and no one even blinks an eye.

[Celtics2021]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35076803/jaylen-brown-endorse-barclays-center-protestors

Why is Jaylen "proud" of "his community" showing support for Kyrie, anyway?

What is there to be proud of?  That an anti-Semite forcibly apologized after initially saying he wouldn't? 

Brown said he simply wanted to promote "Brown and Black people standing together on our issues rather than seeing images of violence in our media, music and movies that we don't entirely promote or profit from."

He's a faux intellectual who just regurgitates stuff that makes no sense in context.  The "issue" for brown and black people is...  Kyrie's anti-Semitism?  And that's related to images of violence, how?  And, if the black and brown people were promoting or profiting from the violence (which they do), does that make it better?  And hey, it's left unsaid, but we all know who controls the media and the music/movie industries, right?  Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.



^ Jaylen, if he had a degree and didn't hate white people.

I'm not going to completely defend Jaylen, because I disagree with him.  That said, I do think it's possible for Jaylen to think the following without being anti-Semitic:

1) Kyrie was unfairly suspended for his speech
2) Kyrie was suspended more harshly because he is Black
3) Kyrie should be supported in his return because of 1 & 2

You can think those things without being anti-Semitic.  I think Jaylen is wrong about #1, and it seems the people supporting Kyrie in #3 are on the anti-Semitic spectrum, so that's a problem.  I do think there's room for debate about #2, even if I agreed with the suspension.

That said, you can also take the stance that Jaylen took and be an anti-Semite.  In other words, I think the jury is out on that for Jaylen, but he's losing the benefit of the doubt quickly.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

This is a good example of why it's often a good idea to separate "people as celebrities" (which includes professional athletes) from "people as people." Maybe someone makes good music but is a jerk in his/her personal life. Maybe someone is a great actor who makes great movies but is a bad apple in real life.

In the sports world, the adage for this type of situation is "root for the laundry," as opposed to the players wearing said laundry. This is the main reason I no longer wear sports jerseys that have a particular player's name on the back—because the chances are good that the individual has done something morally questionable or will do so at some point down the road.

I'm a Boston Celtics fan, so I want the players who give Boston the best chance at winning titles, but that doesn't mean I automatically like or agree with all of those players off the court.

[gouki88]

The whole “I’m just happy to see Brown and Black people sticking together” line is absolutely moronic in this context.

[Goldstar88]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35076803/jaylen-brown-endorse-barclays-center-protestors

Why is Jaylen "proud" of "his community" showing support for Kyrie, anyway?

What is there to be proud of?  That an anti-Semite forcibly apologized after initially saying he wouldn't? 

Brown said he simply wanted to promote "Brown and Black people standing together on our issues rather than seeing images of violence in our media, music and movies that we don't entirely promote or profit from."

He's a faux intellectual who just regurgitates stuff that makes no sense in context.  The "issue" for brown and black people is...  Kyrie's anti-Semitism?  And that's related to images of violence, how?  And, if the black and brown people were promoting or profiting from the violence (which they do), does that make it better?  And hey, it's left unsaid, but we all know who controls the media and the music/movie industries, right?  Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.



^ Jaylen, if he had a degree and didn't hate white people.

I'm not going to completely defend Jaylen, because I disagree with him.  That said, I do think it's possible for Jaylen to think the following without being anti-Semitic:

1) Kyrie was unfairly suspended for his speech
2) Kyrie was suspended more harshly because he is Black
3) Kyrie should be supported in his return because of 1 & 2

You can think those things without being anti-Semitic.  I think Jaylen is wrong about #1, and it seems the people supporting Kyrie in #3 are on the anti-Semitic spectrum, so that's a problem.  I do think there's room for debate about #2, even if I agreed with the suspension.

That said, you can also take the stance that Jaylen took and be an anti-Semite.  In other words, I think the jury is out on that for Jaylen, but he's losing the benefit of the doubt quickly.

I tend to agree with this. With that said, JB should probably stay off twitter for a while and hopefully Brad and/or ownership have a sit down with him sooner than later.

[jpotter33]

The whole “I’m just happy to see Brown and Black people sticking together” line is absolutely moronic in this context.

Yeah, his response today is the same rambling non-sense that Kyrie usually spews.

In fact, if you put that quote and attributed it to Kyrie, people would think it’s right in line with his usual speeches - a lot of words without much substance or consistent logical reasoning behind them.

[Atzar]

I'm not going to completely defend Jaylen, because I disagree with him.  That said, I do think it's possible for Jaylen to think the following without being anti-Semitic:

1) Kyrie was unfairly suspended for his speech
2) Kyrie was suspended more harshly because he is Black
3) Kyrie should be supported in his return because of 1 & 2

You can think those things without being anti-Semitic.  I think Jaylen is wrong about #1, and it seems the people supporting Kyrie in #3 are on the anti-Semitic spectrum, so that's a problem.  I do think there's room for debate about #2, even if I agreed with the suspension.

That said, you can also take the stance that Jaylen took and be an anti-Semite.  In other words, I think the jury is out on that for Jaylen, but he's losing the benefit of the doubt quickly.

It’s difficult to say that Kyrie was suspended more harshly for being black when Meyers Leonard was more or less exiled from the league despite an arguably less harmful initial offense (using a “gamer word” is IMO less destructive than promoting a film that attempts to overwrite a culture’s history; your mileage may vary) and a more convincing apology. 

Yes, there’s a difference in the amount of leeway given to an annual all-star and a mediocre bench big.  Unfortunate truth.  Still… it makes your second bullet point very hard to defend.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

This thread should have its title changed. Its an intentional effort to blast Brown for things he has not said or done by grouping him with other people he doesn't agree with. This is pretty common media coverage these days. Irving was foolish for what he put out there. Absolutely no doubt about it. But his actual beliefs are being misrepresented as a result. Now, there is an attempt to sweep away anyone and everyone connected to Kyrie who have not joined the mob to crucify him.

Brown didn't feel that Kyrie's actual views were being represented well. Brown also didn't like the precedent that was being set as a representative of the players union. It's his job to advocate for the players. He's done that well.

One thing that public opinion is not good at is nuance. Brown is unwilling to yield to a black-and-white view of the situation. He is instead choosing nuance -- its a nuanced view that denounces everything about antisemiticism, while also placing a high value on players in their profession, as well as a high value on lifting up the black community. The public (and this forum) don't appreciate that nuance. Personally, I do.

He's a great player and probably even a better young man. I'm proud he's a Celtic.

[Celtics2021]

I'm not going to completely defend Jaylen, because I disagree with him.  That said, I do think it's possible for Jaylen to think the following without being anti-Semitic:

1) Kyrie was unfairly suspended for his speech
2) Kyrie was suspended more harshly because he is Black
3) Kyrie should be supported in his return because of 1 & 2

You can think those things without being anti-Semitic.  I think Jaylen is wrong about #1, and it seems the people supporting Kyrie in #3 are on the anti-Semitic spectrum, so that's a problem.  I do think there's room for debate about #2, even if I agreed with the suspension.

That said, you can also take the stance that Jaylen took and be an anti-Semite.  In other words, I think the jury is out on that for Jaylen, but he's losing the benefit of the doubt quickly.

It’s difficult to say that Kyrie was suspended more harshly for being black when Meyers Leonard was more or less exiled from the league despite an arguably less harmful initial offense (using a “gamer word” is IMO less destructive than promoting a film that attempts to overwrite a culture’s history; your mileage may vary) and a more convincing apology. 

Yes, there’s a difference in the amount of leeway given to an annual all-star and a mediocre bench big.  Unfortunate truth.  Still… it makes your second bullet point very hard to defend.

I would disagree that Leonard's initial offense was less harmful.  He did quickly apologize. 

As for their respective treatment, he was only fined $50k and suspended from team facilities for a week (he was injured, so there were no games to miss).  So the official punishment has been less than Kyrie's.  And as to his "exiling", it is most likely due to the fact that he was injured.

From a profile this past April (emphasis added):

Leonard had surgery on his right ankle in April of 2021, but it was unlike the normal procedures. There was nerve damage within the bottom half of his right leg and was presented with the possibility of never playing basketball again.

However, he was able to regain his form through rehabilitation and training. Leonard stated that he will be back to 100% in a few months and says that teams have been reaching out to him.

“As everybody in the room knows, there’s plenty of NBA teams who want me and that I could be playing for right now,” Leonard said in the Chicago Tribune interview. “I’m just not healthy enough."

[liam]

This thread should have its title changed. Its an intentional effort to blast Brown for things he has not said or done by grouping him with other people he doesn't agree with. This is pretty common media coverage these days. Irving was foolish for what he put out there. Absolutely no doubt about it. But his actual beliefs are being misrepresented as a result. Now, there is an attempt to sweep away anyone and everyone connected to Kyrie who have not joined the mob to crucify him.

Brown didn't feel that Kyrie's actual views were being represented well. Brown also didn't like the precedent that was being set as a representative of the players union. It's his job to advocate for the players. He's done that well.

One thing that public opinion is not good at is nuance. Brown is unwilling to yield to a black-and-white view of the situation. He is instead choosing nuance -- its a nuanced view that denounces everything about antisemiticism, while also placing a high value on players in their profession, as well as a high value on lifting up the black community. The public (and this forum) don't appreciate that nuance. Personally, I do.

He's a great player and probably even a better young man. I'm proud he's a Celtic.

TP

[gouki88]

This thread should have its title changed. Its an intentional effort to blast Brown for things he has not said or done by grouping him with other people he doesn't agree with. This is pretty common media coverage these days. Irving was foolish for what he put out there. Absolutely no doubt about it. But his actual beliefs are being misrepresented as a result. Now, there is an attempt to sweep away anyone and everyone connected to Kyrie who have not joined the mob to crucify him.

Brown didn't feel that Kyrie's actual views were being represented well. Brown also didn't like the precedent that was being set as a representative of the players union. It's his job to advocate for the players. He's done that well.

One thing that public opinion is not good at is nuance. Brown is unwilling to yield to a black-and-white view of the situation. He is instead choosing nuance -- its a nuanced view that denounces everything about antisemiticism, while also placing a high value on players in their profession, as well as a high value on lifting up the black community. The public (and this forum) don't appreciate that nuance. Personally, I do.

He's a great player and probably even a better young man. I'm proud he's a Celtic.

This is a bit of nonsense though. He is placing a high value on the blind support of a black guy from other black guys despite him espousing deplorable views, which are overlooked / supported. It is not a good thing that Kyrie is being supported by such a significant community, and Brown acting as if there is some silver lining here insofar as the community sticking by him is stupid.

It is not nuance, it is just a way to hide the bigotry.

[Roy H.]

This thread should have its title changed. Its an intentional effort to blast Brown for things he has not said or done by grouping him with other people he doesn't agree with. 

I have no idea who he actually agrees with.  I know who he hangs out with, who he goes into business with, and who he chooses to defend.  I think it's hard to argue that he does not, in fact, have Anti-Semitic friends.

It is not nuance, it is just a way to hide the bigotry.

Yes, exactly.  Jaylen isn't the first to minimize and even condone bigotry that his friends buy into, but it's a super weak move, particularly for somebody who purportedly cares about social justice.

[hwangjini_1]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35076803/jaylen-brown-endorse-barclays-center-protestors

Why is Jaylen "proud" of "his community" showing support for Kyrie, anyway?

What is there to be proud of?  That an anti-Semite forcibly apologized after initially saying he wouldn't? 

Brown said he simply wanted to promote "Brown and Black people standing together on our issues rather than seeing images of violence in our media, music and movies that we don't entirely promote or profit from."

He's a faux intellectual who just regurgitates stuff that makes no sense in context.  The "issue" for brown and black people is...  Kyrie's anti-Semitism?  And that's related to images of violence, how?  And, if the black and brown people were promoting or profiting from the violence (which they do), does that make it better?  And hey, it's left unsaid, but we all know who controls the media and the music/movie industries, right?  Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.



^ Jaylen, if he had a degree and didn't hate white people.

I'm not going to completely defend Jaylen, because I disagree with him.  That said, I do think it's possible for Jaylen to think the following without being anti-Semitic:

1) Kyrie was unfairly suspended for his speech
2) Kyrie was suspended more harshly because he is Black
3) Kyrie should be supported in his return because of 1 & 2

You can think those things without being anti-Semitic.  I think Jaylen is wrong about #1, and it seems the people supporting Kyrie in #3 are on the anti-Semitic spectrum, so that's a problem.  I do think there's room for debate about #2, even if I agreed with the suspension.

That said, you can also take the stance that Jaylen took and be an anti-Semite.  In other words, I think the jury is out on that for Jaylen, but he's losing the benefit of the doubt quickly.

thank you and a tp for your thoughtful post. i learned from it and you did a very good job of showing some of the complexities involved here.

[SHAQATTACK]

This thread should have its title changed. Its an intentional effort to blast Brown for things he has not said or done by grouping him with other people he doesn't agree with. This is pretty common media coverage these days. Irving was foolish for what he put out there. Absolutely no doubt about it. But his actual beliefs are being misrepresented as a result. Now, there is an attempt to sweep away anyone and everyone connected to Kyrie who have not joined the mob to crucify him.

Brown didn't feel that Kyrie's actual views were being represented well. Brown also didn't like the precedent that was being set as a representative of the players union. It's his job to advocate for the players. He's done that well.

One thing that public opinion is not good at is nuance. Brown is unwilling to yield to a black-and-white view of the situation. He is instead choosing nuance -- its a nuanced view that denounces everything about antisemiticism, while also placing a high value on players in their profession, as well as a high value on lifting up the black community. The public (and this forum) don't appreciate that nuance. Personally, I do.

He's a great player and probably even a better young man. I'm proud he's a Celtic.

TP

Yeah ….me too ….I just want him to be very careful and not mess up his own name or career .