Underrated Historical Matchup

[Ed Monix]

Something that doesn’t get enough coverage in regards to NBA history, is a match-up between two of the relatively under appreciated superstars, Tim Duncan & Hakeem Olajuwon.

Both won their titles in amongst the era’s cultural superstars of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

Both play with the some of the best fundamentals in NBA history and both operated with a rare combination of intellect and zen.

Their primes were so close, yet so far from one another. Olajuwon’s best years were the mid 90’s and Duncan’s, the mid 00’s.

In your opinion, who’s coming out on top?

[sgrogan]

Something that doesn’t get enough coverage in regards to NBA history, is a match-up between two of the relatively under appreciated superstars, Tim Duncan & Hakeem Olajuwon.

Both won their titles in amongst the era’s cultural superstars of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

Both play with the some of the best fundamentals in NBA history and both operated with a rare combination of intellect and zen.

Their primes were so close, yet so far from one another. Olajuwon’s best years were the mid 90’s and Duncan’s, the mid 00’s.

In your opinion, who’s coming out on top?

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/tim_duncan_vs_hakeem_olajuwon.htm
I guess Duncan?

[Ed Monix]

Something that doesn’t get enough coverage in regards to NBA history, is a match-up between two of the relatively under appreciated superstars, Tim Duncan & Hakeem Olajuwon.

Both won their titles in amongst the era’s cultural superstars of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

Both play with the some of the best fundamentals in NBA history and both operated with a rare combination of intellect and zen.

Their primes were so close, yet so far from one another. Olajuwon’s best years were the mid 90’s and Duncan’s, the mid 00’s.

In your opinion, who’s coming out on top?

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/tim_duncan_vs_hakeem_olajuwon.htm
I guess Duncan?

That’s not really a fair comparative assessment for Olajuwon.

Remember when Duncan was drafted in 97, Hakeem was already 35 years old and on the decline.

The scenario I’m proposing, is if both guys were at the peak.

[Donoghus]

Something that doesn’t get enough coverage in regards to NBA history, is a match-up between two of the relatively under appreciated superstars, Tim Duncan & Hakeem Olajuwon.

Both won their titles in amongst the era’s cultural superstars of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

Both play with the some of the best fundamentals in NBA history and both operated with a rare combination of intellect and zen.

Their primes were so close, yet so far from one another. Olajuwon’s best years were the mid 90’s and Duncan’s, the mid 00’s.

In your opinion, who’s coming out on top?

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/tim_duncan_vs_hakeem_olajuwon.htm
I guess Duncan?

That's definitely past his prime Hakeem, though. 

Prime Hakeem versus Prime Duncan would be something else to watch.  I'm leaning Prime Hakeem.

[Roy H.]

Something that doesn’t get enough coverage in regards to NBA history, is a match-up between two of the relatively under appreciated superstars, Tim Duncan & Hakeem Olajuwon.

Both won their titles in amongst the era’s cultural superstars of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

Both play with the some of the best fundamentals in NBA history and both operated with a rare combination of intellect and zen.

Their primes were so close, yet so far from one another. Olajuwon’s best years were the mid 90’s and Duncan’s, the mid 00’s.

In your opinion, who’s coming out on top?

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/tim_duncan_vs_hakeem_olajuwon.htm
I guess Duncan?

It's hard to go by that.  Hakeem declined quickly, which coincided with Duncan coming into the league.

I think Duncan would win 1-on-1, and I think that he's the historically greater player, but it's close.

[Vermont Green]

Going on memory, there were a few years there where Hakeem played at a level that Duncan never played at.  Duncan had a more sustained, more consistent career but did not achieve the same high peak.  I guess if you are saying who do you want to build a team around, you probably take Duncan with his consistency but it is very close.  But if you were asking who at their peak would you take for a 1 season run at championship, I take Hakeen.  It is only a little less close.

[Roy H.]

Going on memory, there were a few years there where Hakeem played at a level that Duncan never played at.  Duncan had a more sustained, more consistent career but did not achieve the same high peak.  I guess if you are saying who do you want to build a team around, you probably take Duncan with his consistency but it is very close.  But if you were asking who at their peak would you take for a 1 season run at championship, I take Hakeen.  It is only a little less close.

The stats at their statistical peaks are really interesting:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1=duncati01&p1yrfrom=2002&p1yrto=2003&player_id2=olajuha01&p2yrfrom=1994&p2yrto=1995

Raw stats slightly favor Hakeem.  Advanced stats slightly favor Duncan.

[Ed Monix]

Going on memory, there were a few years there where Hakeem played at a level that Duncan never played at.  Duncan had a more sustained, more consistent career but did not achieve the same high peak.  I guess if you are saying who do you want to build a team around, you probably take Duncan with his consistency but it is very close.  But if you were asking who at their peak would you take for a 1 season run at championship, I take Hakeen.  It is only a little less close.

The stats at their statistical peaks are really interesting:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1=duncati01&p1yrfrom=2002&p1yrto=2003&player_id2=olajuha01&p2yrfrom=1994&p2yrto=1995

Raw stats slightly favor Hakeem.  Advanced stats slightly favor Duncan.

I was just going to make that exact argument.

Raw statistics would never favour Tim Duncan because he was dropped next to David Robinson as a rookie, and the fact that Spurs coaching staff asked Duncan to sacrifice his offensive touches (in his prime) for the benefit of the team.

Before Drexler turned up in 1994-95, Olajuwon was the focalized point of Houston’s offence.

[Vermont Green]

Going on memory, there were a few years there where Hakeem played at a level that Duncan never played at.  Duncan had a more sustained, more consistent career but did not achieve the same high peak.  I guess if you are saying who do you want to build a team around, you probably take Duncan with his consistency but it is very close.  But if you were asking who at their peak would you take for a 1 season run at championship, I take Hakeen.  It is only a little less close.

The stats at their statistical peaks are really interesting:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1=duncati01&p1yrfrom=2002&p1yrto=2003&player_id2=olajuha01&p2yrfrom=1994&p2yrto=1995

Raw stats slightly favor Hakeem.  Advanced stats slightly favor Duncan.

I was about to allude to that point.

Raw statistics would never favour Duncan because he was dropped next to David Robinson as a rookie, and the Spurs coaching staff asked Duncan to sacrifice his offensive touches (in his prime) for the benefit of the team.

Before Drexler turned up in 1994-95, Olajuwon was the focalized point of Houston’s offence.

I am basing my opinion more on what I remember seeing on the court.  Just as you say, they played on different teams, different contexts.  Stats are only part of the story.  When I watched Olajuwon at his best, I saw a better player than Duncan at his best.  The difference isn't huge, they are both all time greats.  But I saw a difference.  That peak for Olajuwon took some time to reach and it didn't last all that long, but it was something to see.  Both actually had long career (17 years and 18 years I believe).  And both were all star level throughout their careers, maybe up to near the end of their careers.  It is like the old Lincoln or Cadillac arguments.  Take your pick.

[Who]

Robert Horry played with both guys and said it wasn't close; Olajuwon easily.

I believe (if I recall correctly) that Horry said Olajuwon was 1,000 times better in an effort to emphasise his point of how it wasn't even close.

[Who]

Olajuwon was a much more talented individual player than Duncan was. Olajuwon could do things defensively that Duncan could only dream of given Olajuwon's quickness & leaping ability. Hakeem could cover so much more ground defensively than Duncan ever could. This allowed Hakeem to make help &recover plays that Duncan could not make solely because Duncan was not the athlete that Hakeem was.

On the offense end, Hakeem's superior athleticism and better contested mid-range shot-making made him just about impossible to slow down nevermind stop. Hakeem does not get enough credit for how good of a midrange shooter he was and Duncan probably gets too much credit for his contested midrange shooting (versus open midrange shooting).

Duncan was versatile offensively and difficult to stop but he was easier to slow down. The Blazers used to do it well early in Duncan's career. Then the Pistons in 2005. Later in Duncan's career, he was easier to slow down as he lost some more athleticism. Varejao did a great job on him 2007. Afterwards the number of players who defended him well grew and grew as Duncan lost more athleticism. So Hakeem's better mid-range shooting and superior athleticism in beating players one-on-one athletically gave him a significant edge as a scorer. Impossible to stop and near impossible to slow down. One of the most fearsome scoring centers the league has ever seen. Duncan is simply not in that class as a scorer. Duncan was a very good but not great scorer.

Where I think Duncan has an advantage on Olajuwon is intelligence. Duncan was a better team orientated player. This particularly showed up in Timmy's passing and his willingness to be a facilitator. Olajuwon was a non-passer his first few years in the league (basically a black-hole on offense) and only entered his peak when he became a plus passer for the first time in the early to mid 90s. Even then, the offense was limited to largely isolation / post-up play geared to Hakeem drawing the double and kicking it out. Hakeem never really showed himself to be a strong facilitator / high post passer. He tried in 1997-2000 when Barkley joined and later when Pippen joined but he was always fairly average at it. He just did not understand the game as well when the ball was not running through him as a scorer.

Hakeem was the much better one-on-one offensive player but I think Duncan did more to help his teammates in terms of team offense.

[Who]

Something that doesn’t get enough coverage in regards to NBA history, is a match-up between two of the relatively under appreciated superstars, Tim Duncan & Hakeem Olajuwon.

Both won their titles in amongst the era’s cultural superstars of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

Both play with the some of the best fundamentals in NBA history and both operated with a rare combination of intellect and zen.

Their primes were so close, yet so far from one another. Olajuwon’s best years were the mid 90’s and Duncan’s, the mid 00’s.

In your opinion, who’s coming out on top?

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/tim_duncan_vs_hakeem_olajuwon.htm
I guess Duncan?

It's hard to go by that.  Hakeem declined quickly, which coincided with Duncan coming into the league.

I think Duncan would win 1-on-1, and I think that he's the historically greater player, but it's close.

Hakeem's last year as a top ten player in the NBA was in 1996-97 which was the year before Duncan came into the league. So not only did Duncan not face Hakeem in Hakeem's prime, Duncan missed almost all of Hakeem's strong post-prime years (top ten player rather than perennial MVP candidate).

Hakeem got hurt the next year in 1997-98 -- I forget, maybe an ankle injury -- that sapped some of physical & athletic power. After that, I am not even sure Olajuwon was an All-Star caliber player anymore.

So that is the context for most of their head-to-head matchups even in the early years of Duncan's rookie (97-98) and 2nd season (98-99).

If I remember right, it was also Kevin Willis who was the primary matchup against Duncan while Hakeem faced off with David Robinson instead. So even in the games against each other, they were mostly defending other people.

[Moranis]

Olajuwon was a much more talented individual player than Duncan was. Olajuwon could do things defensively that Duncan could only dream of given Olajuwon's quickness & leaping ability. Hakeem could cover so much more ground defensively than Duncan ever could. This allowed Hakeem to make help &recover plays that Duncan could not make solely because Duncan was not the athlete that Hakeem was.

On the offense end, Hakeem's superior athleticism and better contested mid-range shot-making made him just about impossible to slow down nevermind stop. Hakeem does not get enough credit for how good of a midrange shooter he was and Duncan probably gets too much credit for his contested midrange shooting (versus open midrange shooting).

Duncan was versatile offensively and difficult to stop but he was easier to slow down. The Blazers used to do it well early in Duncan's career. Then the Pistons in 2005. Later in Duncan's career, he was easier to slow down as he lost some more athleticism. Varejao did a great job on him 2007. Afterwards the number of players who defended him well grew and grew as Duncan lost more athleticism. So Hakeem's better mid-range shooting and superior athleticism in beating players one-on-one athletically gave him a significant edge as a scorer. Impossible to stop and near impossible to slow down. One of the most fearsome scoring centers the league has ever seen. Duncan is simply not in that class as a scorer. Duncan was a very good but not great scorer.

Where I think Duncan has an advantage on Olajuwon is intelligence. Duncan was a better team orientated player. This particularly showed up in Timmy's passing and his willingness to be a facilitator. Olajuwon was a non-passer his first few years in the league (basically a black-hole on offense) and only entered his peak when he became a plus passer for the first time in the early to mid 90s. Even then, the offense was limited to largely isolation / post-up play geared to Hakeem drawing the double and kicking it out. Hakeem never really showed himself to be a strong facilitator / high post passer. He tried in 1997-2000 when Barkley joined and later when Pippen joined but he was always fairly average at it. He just did not understand the game as well when the ball was not running through him as a scorer.

Hakeem was the much better one-on-one offensive player but I think Duncan did more to help his teammates in terms of team offense.

I think this is correct.  Most all time lists have Duncan ahead of Hakeem, which I think is also correct.

[Jvalin]

I'm a bit surprised by the result thus far. The way I see it, Duncan is the modern-day Bill Russell: the ultimate team player, the ultimate winner. I consider him a GOAT candidate. The guy won 5 rings playing for a small-market team! It's one thing to win in LA or Miami, it's a different thing to win in a small market. The Spurs were contenders for 2 decades with him on their roster. They are now a lotto team for 3 consecutive seasons. Duncan is so underrated (just as Russell btw).

Don't get me wrong, Hakeem was amazing. I'd just rank him lower than Duncan.

[Roy H.]

I'm a bit surprised by the result thus far. The way I see it, Duncan is the modern-day Bill Russell: the ultimate team player, the ultimate winner. I consider him a GOAT candidate. The guy won 5 rings playing for a small-market team! It's one thing to win in LA or Miami, it's a different thing to win in a small market. The Spurs were contenders for 2 decades with him on their roster. They are now a lotto team for 3 consecutive seasons. Duncan is so underrated (just as Russell btw).

Don't get me wrong, Hakeem was amazing. I'd just rank him lower than Duncan.

Keep in mind the poll question is 1-on-1.  Team play doesn’t matter.