Are there other cases like B simmons in the nba?

[celticsclay]

I know some promising careers have obviously been derailed by drugs or criminal activity, but has anyone ever fallen so far from just losing their confidence/attitude? There is talk of him coming off the bench now and he has now refused to shoot for years.

[Celtics2021]

I know some promising careers have obviously been derailed by drugs or criminal activity, but has anyone ever fallen so far from just losing their confidence/attitude? There is talk of him coming off the bench now and he has now refused to shoot for years.

I'll always wonder what happened to Roy Hibbert.  Not quite the same as Simmons, but he went from multiple-time All-Star at 27 to arguably the worse rotation player in the league at 29 and out of the league at 30.  I know the game started to change a bit with 3-point shooting, but it wasn't simply that.

He's the guy that jumps off the top of my head -- went from being a highly impactful center to borderline unplayable in two seasons.

[Who]

Nick Anderson fell apart from the FT line for a few years after missing those 4 FTs at the end of Gm 1 in 1995 Finals. Not a complete collapse of his game though.

[Roy H.]

There aren't many that I can think of.  Markelle Fultz's shooting seems to be a mental issue to some extent.

I think baseball has several examples, where guys just got in their own head and couldn't even make routine plays any more.

[Moranis]

Simmons had back surgery in April.  Seems a bit premature to write this off as completely mental.  I'm sure that is a part of it, but lots and lots of players are hesitant to get hit after having back surgery. 

[Kernewek]

I know some promising careers have obviously been derailed by drugs or criminal activity, but has anyone ever fallen so far from just losing their confidence/attitude? There is talk of him coming off the bench now and he has now refused to shoot for years.

I'll always wonder what happened to Roy Hibbert.  Not quite the same as Simmons, but he went from multiple-time All-Star at 27 to arguably the worse rotation player in the league at 29 and out of the league at 30.  I know the game started to change a bit with 3-point shooting, but it wasn't simply that.

He's the guy that jumps off the top of my head -- went from being a highly impactful center to borderline unplayable in two seasons.

The verticality rule change took him from elite player to bench scrub.

Larry Sanders is another player who springs to mind based on the Simmons criteria.

[Celtics2021]

I know some promising careers have obviously been derailed by drugs or criminal activity, but has anyone ever fallen so far from just losing their confidence/attitude? There is talk of him coming off the bench now and he has now refused to shoot for years.

I'll always wonder what happened to Roy Hibbert.  Not quite the same as Simmons, but he went from multiple-time All-Star at 27 to arguably the worse rotation player in the league at 29 and out of the league at 30.  I know the game started to change a bit with 3-point shooting, but it wasn't simply that.

He's the guy that jumps off the top of my head -- went from being a highly impactful center to borderline unplayable in two seasons.

The verticality rule change took him from elite player to bench scrub.

Larry Sanders is another player who springs to mind based on the Simmons criteria.

Larry Sanders had drug issues.  There's a lot of debate about the costs and benefits of pot use, but he literally chose pot over basketball, so he was more than someone who simply used it at times.

[Kernewek]

I know some promising careers have obviously been derailed by drugs or criminal activity, but has anyone ever fallen so far from just losing their confidence/attitude? There is talk of him coming off the bench now and he has now refused to shoot for years.

I'll always wonder what happened to Roy Hibbert.  Not quite the same as Simmons, but he went from multiple-time All-Star at 27 to arguably the worse rotation player in the league at 29 and out of the league at 30.  I know the game started to change a bit with 3-point shooting, but it wasn't simply that.

He's the guy that jumps off the top of my head -- went from being a highly impactful center to borderline unplayable in two seasons.

The verticality rule change took him from elite player to bench scrub.

Larry Sanders is another player who springs to mind based on the Simmons criteria.

Larry Sanders had drug issues.  There's a lot of debate about the costs and benefits of pot use, but he literally chose pot over basketball, so he was more than someone who simply used it at times.

Yeah fair point - I remembered Sanders smoked his way out of Milwaukee but the details are more severe than I remembered.

I guess another guy would be Royce White? But he never really made it to the NBA in the first place (and probably doesn't fall under 'confidence/attitude').

[BudweiserCeltic]

I know some promising careers have obviously been derailed by drugs or criminal activity, but has anyone ever fallen so far from just losing their confidence/attitude? There is talk of him coming off the bench now and he has now refused to shoot for years.

I'll always wonder what happened to Roy Hibbert.  Not quite the same as Simmons, but he went from multiple-time All-Star at 27 to arguably the worse rotation player in the league at 29 and out of the league at 30.  I know the game started to change a bit with 3-point shooting, but it wasn't simply that.

He's the guy that jumps off the top of my head -- went from being a highly impactful center to borderline unplayable in two seasons.

The verticality rule change took him from elite player to bench scrub.

Larry Sanders is another player who springs to mind based on the Simmons criteria.

Larry Sanders had drug issues.  There's a lot of debate about the costs and benefits of pot use, but he literally chose pot over basketball, so he was more than someone who simply used it at times.

Yeah fair point - I remembered Sanders smoked his way out of Milwaukee but the details are more severe than I remembered.

I guess another guy would be Royce White? But he never really made it to the NBA in the first place (and probably doesn't fall under 'confidence/attitude').

He had a fear of flying an other anxiety issues that I recall. As for Sanders, it later came out that he was also the target of Jason Kidd's "generosity".

What about Adam Morison?

Darko fits the bill too I think. When he became a defensive specialist he was actually very useful, I was sad when his tenure with the Celtics was cut short. I thought he was going to be very helpful to us.

[bdm860]

Danny Fortson forgot how to play without fouling soon as he got to the C's!

Not the same as Simmons, but both Shawn Kemp and Vin Baker come to mind.  They were later in their careers, but both seemed to fall off a cliff.  Drugs/alcohol were involved with them, but there's the chicken and egg question of what came first.  Did they lose their skills/confidence and then turn to drugs/alcohol (making the decline even worse), or did drugs/alcohol lead to their declines?

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

There aren't many that I can think of.  Markelle Fultz's shooting seems to be a mental issue to some extent.

I think baseball has several examples, where guys just got in their own head and couldn't even make routine plays any more.

First thing I thought of when I read the OP was Chuck Knoblauch suddenly not being able to throw from second base to first. There was also at least one catcher a while back who suddenly couldn't make an accurate throw to the pitcher. And Rick Ankiel (and to a lesser extent Daniel Bard) suddenly couldn't find home plate with their pitches. Very strange stuff, but the mind is a complex (and fragile) thing.

[bdm860]

Darko fits the bill too I think. When he became a defensive specialist he was actually very useful, I was sad when his tenure with the Celtics was cut short. I thought he was going to be very helpful to us.

Darko is a different kind of problem.  With guys like him, it's an ego/attitude problem, where they can't accept a reduced role, so they end up out of the league altogether.  Darko, Keith Bogans, Allen Iverson, Latrell Sprewell, Marbury, etc.  (Thought this was going to be Carmelo after the "Aye P, they said I got to come off the bench" comment and failed Houston experiment, was surprised he held on a few more years).

I imagine guys like Darko in Boston were explained what their role was going to be, and they assured the team they were good with it, but can't deal with it once actually faced with it.  Like Iverson in Memphis, he said he was okay coming off the bench, but quit the team because of it after 3 games.  It's one thing to say it ("I'm okay with this role"), but it's another thing to watch your team lose while you think you're better than the 2-3 guys ahead of you on the depth chart.  These guys always seem to have a very inflated view of their current skill level.

This seems to be a big reason why Dwight Howard isn't in the league right now.  And I wonder if this is what has been Cousins' problem lately too.  Cousins is a guy who has said the right things to the press (okay coming off the bench, okay with a reduced role), but maybe he's constantly complaining in the locker room about it?  (Just a guess as to why a guy who still seems productive hasn't found a home).

[Who]

Simmons had back surgery in April.  Seems a bit premature to write this off as completely mental.  I'm sure that is a part of it, but lots and lots of players are hesitant to get hit after having back surgery.

Seeing people wondering if Simmons can be an All-League defender again after that back surgery.

[celticsclay]

Simmons had back surgery in April.  Seems a bit premature to write this off as completely mental.  I'm sure that is a part of it, but lots and lots of players are hesitant to get hit after having back surgery.

Seeing people wondering if Simmons can be an All-League defender again after that back surgery.

I think the defense could come back and he could be a good defensive role player. However the shooting seems worse than ever. He just won’t even taken layups at this point. His teammates have already grown frustrated with it. If he turns into Bruce Bowen that can still be a career but it’s actually more
Similar to kwame brown than the Lebron James, Blake griffin, Derrick rose many thought he would have.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Darko fits the bill too I think. When he became a defensive specialist he was actually very useful, I was sad when his tenure with the Celtics was cut short. I thought he was going to be very helpful to us.

Darko is a different kind of problem.  With guys like him, it's an ego/attitude problem, where they can't accept a reduced role, so they end up out of the league altogether.  Darko, Keith Bogans, Allen Iverson, Latrell Sprewell, Marbury, etc.  (Thought this was going to be Carmelo after the "Aye P, they said I got to come off the bench" comment and failed Houston experiment, was surprised he held on a few more years).

I imagine guys like Darko in Boston were explained what their role was going to be, and they assured the team they were good with it, but can't deal with it once actually faced with it.  Like Iverson in Memphis, he said he was okay coming off the bench, but quit the team because of it after 3 games.  It's one thing to say it ("I'm okay with this role"), but it's another thing to watch your team lose while you think you're better than the 2-3 guys ahead of you on the depth chart.  These guys always seem to have a very inflated view of their current skill level.

This seems to be a big reason why Dwight Howard isn't in the league right now.  And I wonder if this is what has been Cousins' problem lately too.  Cousins is a guy who has said the right things to the press (okay coming off the bench, okay with a reduced role), but maybe he's constantly complaining in the locker room about it?  (Just a guess as to why a guy who still seems productive hasn't found a home).

I don't think that was Darko's issue at all, he was playing a reduced role as it was through pretty much his whole career. As I recall it there were 2 things maybe, Doc wasn't playing him at all (which is to your point, but there's a wide gap between not playing at all and playing a reduced role) and his mom was sick or something. I thought it was a mistake Doc not playing him at all. It was only preseason, but we played quite well from what I recall when Darko was in and his defense was welcomed.