Nets, Tsai upset about Cryrie's promotion of antisemitic book, film

[BudweiserCeltic]

Kyrie apologies on his IG about 3 hours ago:

Isn't this the same thing he said the first time before he got suspended pretty much?

[Roy H.]

Kyrie apologies on his IG about 3 hours ago:

Isn't this the same thing he said the first time before he got suspended pretty much?

It contains the words "I apologize", which means that the Nets and Kyrie can now move on as if nothing happened, Nick Cannon style.

[Kernewek]

I gotta say it really seems like Kyrie has become unhinged. He is quite detached from reality.

It's reminding me of Antonio Brown, and we know where he's at now (yikes)

Curious if anyone wants to argue he is acting rationally? Probably in danger of getting banned from the board if you do so tho.....

He's absolutely acting rationally. He's upset because, to paraphrase Kareem, for the first time in a life that has seen him ensconced in fame, money, and yes-people, he is being forced to acknowledge the difference between propaganda and facts. That's not the same thing as being unable to distinguish reality from unreality. If he were detached from reality what are the odds that he would have apologised?

In other words, why give him the out of serious mental illness when it's clear he's just an [insert pejorative of your choice here]?

Look at his commentary:

And it's not that I don't believe in the Holocaust. I never said that. Never, ever have said it. It's not come out of my mouth. I never tweeted it. I never liked anything like it. So the Holocaust in itself is an event that means something to a large group of people that suffered something that could have been avoided.

That's not someone refusing to engage with reality, that's someone ducking responsibility.

[Vermont Green]

It is interesting when you have a person like Kyrie (or like Antonio Brown).  These people do very strange things but do they actually have mental health conditions?  How do you define that or draw the line between the two?  I certainly don't know.  And does having a mental health condition have to mean you have some kind of chemical imbalance in your brain or if stress or something like that is the cause, is that the same thing?

To me, Kyrie seems more spoiled brat than someone with a mental health condition or illness.  But it seems like almost anything can be classified as a mental health condition.  Maybe Spoiled Brat Syndrome is a form of mental health condition that affects people who were coddled their whole life and ended up rich and with a big platform.

I really don't know what Kyrie is seeing in this documentary (I don't know what is in the documentary).  He seems to be saying that he agrees with some parts of it but disagrees (or is at least saying he disagrees) with other parts of it.  He felt so strongly about the parts he agrees with that he posted a link to it, essentially endorsed or promoted it.  He is implying that there is some "truth" in it (I am a truth seeker).  I think he feels he is the one that needs to pull the curtain back on things where everyone is being led to believe one thing but he sees the real truth (flat earth).  That somehow this truth that was being revealed was important enough to overlook the holocaust denying and other false anti-Semitic aspects.

Some people who appear crazy are really geniuses.  Others who appear crazy are dealing with serious mental health issues.  And then there are a lot in between.  I don't know where Kyrie is but I suspect it somewhere in between who are not genius or mentally ill.  Sometimes you say of people "they march to the beat of their own drum".  That can be considered admirable or it can be annoying or off putting.  But it is a fine line.  If you want to be respected for marching to your own drum, you have to be careful about offending people and you have to own it.  Kyrie seems to want his cake and eat it too.

[Roy H.]

It is interesting when you have a person like Kyrie (or like Antonio Brown).  These people do very strange things but do they actually have mental health conditions?  How do you define that or draw the line between the two?  I certainly don't know.  And does having a mental health condition have to mean you have some kind of chemical imbalance in your brain or if stress or something like that is the cause, is that the same thing?

To me, Kyrie seems more spoiled brat than someone with a mental health condition or illness.  But it seems like almost anything can be classified as a mental health condition.  Maybe Spoiled Brat Syndrome is a form of mental health condition that affects people who were coddled their whole life and ended up rich and with a big platform.

I really don't know what Kyrie is seeing in this documentary (I don't know what is in the documentary).  He seems to be saying that he agrees with some parts of it but disagrees (or is at least saying he disagrees) with other parts of it.  He felt so strongly about the parts he agrees with that he posted a link to it, essentially endorsed or promoted it.  He is implying that there is some "truth" in it (I am a truth seeker).  I think he feels he is the one that needs to pull the curtain back on things where everyone is being led to believe one thing but he sees the real truth (flat earth).  That somehow this truth that was being revealed was important enough to overlook the holocaust denying and other false anti-Semitic aspects.

Some people who appear crazy are really geniuses.  Others who appear crazy are dealing with serious mental health issues.  And then there are a lot in between.  I don't know where Kyrie is but I suspect it somewhere in between who are not genius or mentally ill.  Sometimes you say of people "they march to the beat of their own drum".  That can be considered admirable or it can be annoying or off putting.  But it is a fine line.  If you want to be respected for marching to your own drum, you have to be careful about offending people and you have to own it.  Kyrie seems to want his cake and eat it too.

I think a lot of these people have "personality disorders", which can be a mental health diagnosis.  They're not thought of always in the same way that schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder may be, but they're serious.  Borderline personality disorder; narcissism; anti-social personality disorder; histrionic personality disorder. 

[Vermont Green]

Look at his commentary:

And it's not that I don't believe in the Holocaust. I never said that. Never, ever have said it. It's not come out of my mouth. I never tweeted it. I never liked anything like it. So the Holocaust in itself is an event that means something to a large group of people that suffered something that could have been avoided.

That's not someone refusing to engage with reality, that's someone ducking responsibility.

Even his argument doesn't hold up.  He "liked" a documentary where a main theme (apparently) was presenting a case for how the holocaust didn't happen.  He actually literally did "tweet that".  And because he did that is exactly why he is getting the blow back.

You can have off center views on things like who shot JFK.  On UFOs.  Maybe some other things.  And some science is not 100% conclusive (there can be some debate to the science of global warming causes but I am not so sure about the flat earth argument).  But there are a few things in society that come from such a hurtful place, that you just can't go there.  Holocaust denying or other anti-Semitism is one.  The N-word or other blatantly racially derogatory (slavery based) language is another. 

Ethnic cleansing, slavery, these are existentially dangerous human activities.  It is right to have zero tolerance for these.  These are not "there are good people on both sides" kinds of things.  These are not "you respect everyone's point of view" things.  When Kyrie says he agrees with some of things in that documentary (and I don't know what those are) it is kind of like saying you agree some things Hitler did.  Or saying there were good and bad aspects of slave ownership.  Kyrie seems to think he can.

[nickagneta]

It is interesting when you have a person like Kyrie (or like Antonio Brown).  These people do very strange things but do they actually have mental health conditions?  How do you define that or draw the line between the two?  I certainly don't know.  And does having a mental health condition have to mean you have some kind of chemical imbalance in your brain or if stress or something like that is the cause, is that the same thing?

To me, Kyrie seems more spoiled brat than someone with a mental health condition or illness.  But it seems like almost anything can be classified as a mental health condition.  Maybe Spoiled Brat Syndrome is a form of mental health condition that affects people who were coddled their whole life and ended up rich and with a big platform.

I really don't know what Kyrie is seeing in this documentary (I don't know what is in the documentary).  He seems to be saying that he agrees with some parts of it but disagrees (or is at least saying he disagrees) with other parts of it.  He felt so strongly about the parts he agrees with that he posted a link to it, essentially endorsed or promoted it.  He is implying that there is some "truth" in it (I am a truth seeker).  I think he feels he is the one that needs to pull the curtain back on things where everyone is being led to believe one thing but he sees the real truth (flat earth).  That somehow this truth that was being revealed was important enough to overlook the holocaust denying and other false anti-Semitic aspects.

Some people who appear crazy are really geniuses.  Others who appear crazy are dealing with serious mental health issues.  And then there are a lot in between.  I don't know where Kyrie is but I suspect it somewhere in between who are not genius or mentally ill.  Sometimes you say of people "they march to the beat of their own drum".  That can be considered admirable or it can be annoying or off putting.  But it is a fine line.  If you want to be respected for marching to your own drum, you have to be careful about offending people and you have to own it.  Kyrie seems to want his cake and eat it too.

VG, none of this stuff is mutually exclusive. You can have mental illness and by absolutely brilliant and creative. Some of the most creative and brilliant people in world history had some form of mental illness....Beethoven, Mozart, Tolstoy, Edgar Allen Poe, Abraham Lincoln, Michelangelo just to name a few. The list is significant.

And you can have mental illness and be 100% aware of reality and live within social norms, i.e., not act "crazy" or say "crazy and stupid" things. For instance, if I had never come forward and revealed on this site my severe mental illnesses and struggles with them could anyone here have ever suspected I am mentally ill based on my posting alone?

And, it's possible people aren't mentally ill and act "crazy" and say "crazy and stupid" things. This could be attributed to lack of intelligence, lack of education, purposeful behavior to achieve a goal, dishonesty, being evil and a host of other reasons.

I think it's pretty clear Kyrie has, at the very least, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, a form of mental illness. But I think it's also possible he isn't well educated and is a massive d!ck. Also, racism is not a mental illness, it's disgusting learned behavior, which could be another issue going on here.

[Vermont Green]

It is interesting when you have a person like Kyrie (or like Antonio Brown).  These people do very strange things but do they actually have mental health conditions?  How do you define that or draw the line between the two?  I certainly don't know.  And does having a mental health condition have to mean you have some kind of chemical imbalance in your brain or if stress or something like that is the cause, is that the same thing?

To me, Kyrie seems more spoiled brat than someone with a mental health condition or illness.  But it seems like almost anything can be classified as a mental health condition.  Maybe Spoiled Brat Syndrome is a form of mental health condition that affects people who were coddled their whole life and ended up rich and with a big platform.

I really don't know what Kyrie is seeing in this documentary (I don't know what is in the documentary).  He seems to be saying that he agrees with some parts of it but disagrees (or is at least saying he disagrees) with other parts of it.  He felt so strongly about the parts he agrees with that he posted a link to it, essentially endorsed or promoted it.  He is implying that there is some "truth" in it (I am a truth seeker).  I think he feels he is the one that needs to pull the curtain back on things where everyone is being led to believe one thing but he sees the real truth (flat earth).  That somehow this truth that was being revealed was important enough to overlook the holocaust denying and other false anti-Semitic aspects.

Some people who appear crazy are really geniuses.  Others who appear crazy are dealing with serious mental health issues.  And then there are a lot in between.  I don't know where Kyrie is but I suspect it somewhere in between who are not genius or mentally ill.  Sometimes you say of people "they march to the beat of their own drum".  That can be considered admirable or it can be annoying or off putting.  But it is a fine line.  If you want to be respected for marching to your own drum, you have to be careful about offending people and you have to own it.  Kyrie seems to want his cake and eat it too.

I think a lot of these people have "personality disorders", which can be a mental health diagnosis.  They're not thought of always in the same way that schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder may be, but they're serious.  Borderline personality disorder; narcissism; anti-social personality disorder; histrionic personality disorder.

OK, that seems reasonable.  The proper clinical term is "disorder".  My diagnosis of Kyrie Irving is that he has Spoiled Brat Disorder.  It is probably not all his fault, he has been coddled his whole life.  There is also probably some level of predisposition.  I think what he needs to "treat" this is for someone to tell him he is acting like an idiot or otherwise have him suffer a real consequence from his actions.

[Vermont Green]

It is interesting when you have a person like Kyrie (or like Antonio Brown).  These people do very strange things but do they actually have mental health conditions?  How do you define that or draw the line between the two?  I certainly don't know.  And does having a mental health condition have to mean you have some kind of chemical imbalance in your brain or if stress or something like that is the cause, is that the same thing?

To me, Kyrie seems more spoiled brat than someone with a mental health condition or illness.  But it seems like almost anything can be classified as a mental health condition.  Maybe Spoiled Brat Syndrome is a form of mental health condition that affects people who were coddled their whole life and ended up rich and with a big platform.

I really don't know what Kyrie is seeing in this documentary (I don't know what is in the documentary).  He seems to be saying that he agrees with some parts of it but disagrees (or is at least saying he disagrees) with other parts of it.  He felt so strongly about the parts he agrees with that he posted a link to it, essentially endorsed or promoted it.  He is implying that there is some "truth" in it (I am a truth seeker).  I think he feels he is the one that needs to pull the curtain back on things where everyone is being led to believe one thing but he sees the real truth (flat earth).  That somehow this truth that was being revealed was important enough to overlook the holocaust denying and other false anti-Semitic aspects.

Some people who appear crazy are really geniuses.  Others who appear crazy are dealing with serious mental health issues.  And then there are a lot in between.  I don't know where Kyrie is but I suspect it somewhere in between who are not genius or mentally ill.  Sometimes you say of people "they march to the beat of their own drum".  That can be considered admirable or it can be annoying or off putting.  But it is a fine line.  If you want to be respected for marching to your own drum, you have to be careful about offending people and you have to own it.  Kyrie seems to want his cake and eat it too.

VG, none of this stuff is mutually exclusive. You can have mental illness and by absolutely brilliant and creative. Some of the most creative and brilliant people in world history had some form of mental illness....Beethoven, Mozart, Tolstoy, Edgar Allen Poe, Abraham Lincoln, Michelangelo just to name a few. The list is significant.

And you can have mental illness and be 100% aware of reality and live within social norms, i.e., not act "crazy" or say "crazy and stupid" things. For instance, if I had never come forward and revealed on this site my severe mental illnesses and struggles with them could anyone here have ever suspected I am mentally ill based on my posting alone?

And, it's possible people aren't mentally ill and act "crazy" and say "crazy and stupid" things. This could be attributed to lack of intelligence, lack of education, purposeful behavior to achieve a goal, dishonesty, being evil and a host of other reasons.

I think it's pretty clear Kyrie has, at the very least, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, a form of mental illness. But I think it's also possible he isn't well educated and is a massive d!ck. Also, racism is not a mental illness, it's disgusting learned behavior, which could be another issue going on here.

Thanks for this background Nick.  I understand these are very complex conditions or disorders (well, actually I don't understand, trying to understand, but acknowledge the complexity).  It is not as simple as you are a genius or not, you are on some spectrum of intelligence.  And not as simple as you have a disorder or an illness, one or the other. 

[ozgod]

Should have apologized right from the beginning. I'm sure he didn't even bother to watch the doco before tweeting it, otherwise he would have realized that publicizing it was unwise. Stubborn and stupid.

[Roy H.]

Should have apologized right from the beginning. I'm sure he didn't even bother to watch the doco before tweeting it, otherwise he would have realized that publicizing it was unwise. Stubborn and stupid.

Since it came immediately on the heels on Kanye's situation, and because Kanye is a friend of Kyrie, I suspect he watched the documentary and posted it quite intentionally in support of his and Kanye's "blacks are the real Jews" theory.

And, not shockingly...  Kanye posted a picture in support of Kyrie on Twitter.  Birds of a feather.  That's why I was worried about JB initially hanging out with Kanye and Kyrie this past summer.  Brown doesn't need those influences in his life.

[Sophomore]

What you can say for sure about Kyrie is that whatever causes his behavior it’s at least irritating to others and sometimes it’s harmful and damaging.

If people are interested in questions about the boundary between being a difficult person and being mentally ill, I’ve heard good things about this book. Haven’t had a chance to read it yet but it’s on my list. I think we have a concept of “normal” and “ill” that works in some cases - there’s something biochemically different about schizophrenia or manic depression - but those big categories include a lot of very different brains and habits and cover them in a very very rough way.

https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374600846/strangerstoourselves

[No Nickname]

Should have apologized right from the beginning. I'm sure he didn't even bother to watch the doco before tweeting it, otherwise he would have realized that publicizing it was unwise. Stubborn and stupid.

Actually, I think he did watch the documentary.  For those who want more details about the documentary (and book it's based on) the Anti-Defamation League has a succinct bullet point list of it's fallacies and bogus theories.

https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/hebrews-negroes-what-you-need-know

I don't think Kyrie is sorry at all.  He seems to believe what the documentary is saying:

A portion of African-Americans are the *real* Israelites from the Bible, and thus are "God's chosen people." 

White Jews have stolen that mantle from these African-Americans, helped push them into slavery in America, and are now running a cabal where they're trying to get rich off of Blacks and one day rule the world.

The Holocaust was somewhat of a marketing ploy to get the rest of the world to feel sorry for the Sephardic, Ashkenazi, and Mizrahi Jews of European descent.

When Kyrie said "I can't be anti-semetic if I know where I come from" he was basically saying "I'M JEWISH, so I can't be anti-semetic."

Irrelevant side point: Did he actually do DNA testing to see if he descends from the purported group of African-Americans who believe they were the Israelites?  Or is he just conflating the theories in the documentary and thinks *all* Black people are "Jewish?"

Back to my main point: Kyrie did not want to apologize, because he's not sorry.  He believes this stuff.

Just like Tucker Carlson promoting "The Great Replacement" theory where some White people believe their livelihoods are being replaced by minorities through lax immigration policies, Kyrie believes that Blacks have been "replaced" by White Jews who have taken their destiny as God's chosen people.

That's why Kyrie wrote in his apology "My Jewish Brothers and Sisters."  He's talking to Black people there, who he believes are the real Jews.  So he's not apologizing to "White Jews" with his latest tweet (in my opinion).

[Kernewek]

Look at his commentary:

And it's not that I don't believe in the Holocaust. I never said that. Never, ever have said it. It's not come out of my mouth. I never tweeted it. I never liked anything like it. So the Holocaust in itself is an event that means something to a large group of people that suffered something that could have been avoided.

That's not someone refusing to engage with reality, that's someone ducking responsibility.

Even his argument doesn't hold up.  He "liked" a documentary where a main theme (apparently) was presenting a case for how the holocaust didn't happen.  He actually literally did "tweet that".  And because he did that is exactly why he is getting the blow back.

You can have off center views on things like who shot JFK.  On UFOs.  Maybe some other things.  And some science is not 100% conclusive (there can be some debate to the science of global warming causes but I am not so sure about the flat earth argument).  But there are a few things in society that come from such a hurtful place, that you just can't go there.  Holocaust denying or other anti-Semitism is one.  The N-word or other blatantly racially derogatory (slavery based) language is another. 

Ethnic cleansing, slavery, these are existentially dangerous human activities.  It is right to have zero tolerance for these.  These are not "there are good people on both sides" kinds of things.  These are not "you respect everyone's point of view" things.  When Kyrie says he agrees with some of things in that documentary (and I don't know what those are) it is kind of like saying you agree some things Hitler did.  Or saying there were good and bad aspects of slave ownership.  Kyrie seems to think he can.

I don't know much about the Black Hebrew Israelites - other than they're mentioned in RZA's verse on 4th Chamber - but they don't seem to be far removed from the 5 Percenters or other groups like that. Suffice it to say, 'strong internal logic' isn't the first thing that comes to mind for any of them.

[Vermont Green]

Yeah, I guess I don't know the background on this black Jewish theory.  It doesn't seem like a stretch that there were some black Africans who adopted Judaism somewhere along the way.  That there were in fact black Jews.  Not sure if that is true or not but what is the issue?  But to then stretch that to the Holocaust didn't happen or that white Jews are still today trying to oppress or steal something from black Jews or blacks in general seems a little crazy to me.

I can't make any sense out of why some before Christ white people would want to steal a religion from black Africans.  That these white people were practicing some other religion but then decided to "steal" Judaism from the black Africans?  Or is it that they both somehow started practicing the same religion completely independently?  That seems hard to believe. 

And even if something like this happened over 2000 years ago, is this really secretly continuing today?  None of this makes any sense to me but I guess I am not all that well informed.

Question, if a Black person wanted to convert to Judaism, join a Synagogue, practice the religion, is there anything preventing that?  If Kyrie wanted to become a practicing Jew, why couldn't he do that.