Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"

[tazzmaniac]

I wonder about the acceptability of the term “white boy” if it’s used in a nasty way toward someone like Hayward.  It seems derived from the same kind of “boy” that got the fan banned.  Also, IDs aren’t checked when you enter arenas.  Unless the guy had season tickets, how in the world is he not going to be able to get back in the arena at some point?

He's been banned.  So if he comes back and gets caught I expect he'd be criminally charged. 

[Walker Wiggle]

Calling a grown black male "boy" is deeply offensive and hearkens back to slavery. If you're unfamiliar with this, there's nothing to be ashamed about, but you should consider asking your black friend/coworker/neighbor and I promise if you bring a genuine attitude to the conversation you'll be met with the same response and learn something in the process.

If that's what happened in Utah, then the Jazz is a private organization that is fully within its constitutional right to remove that individual permanently.

[Erik]

I’m pretty sure that calling any adult male “boy” is offensive I.e. “white boy” that I hear all too often in the hip hop culture. That’s acceptable, right?

I’m just waiting for the day that we just move on and stop getting offended over everything. We took a bit of a detour over the last 10 years for sure. God forbid I refer to someone with a five o’clock shadow with a male pronoun.

[mmmmm]

If the word boy is so offensive, why is it on birth certificates? Why is it in baby showers? Why is it everywhere?

Its not a racial slur. Its never been a racial slur. It has no negative connotation whatsoever. Its a term southerners use to refer to someone young. That's it. It stops there. Race has nothing to do with it


The real racists are the ones attaching negative connotation to innocent terms

If you honestly and truly feel this way, then perhaps you should feel free to shout out the word, "Boy!" in a commanding tone at an opposing black player at the next game you attend.    If you are correct, then it should get no special reaction from anyone.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I’m pretty sure that calling any adult male “boy” is offensive I.e. “white boy” that I hear all too often in the hip hop culture. That’s acceptable, right?

I’m just waiting for the day that we just move on and stop getting offended over everything. We took a bit of a detour over the last 10 years for sure. God forbid I refer to someone with a five o’clock shadow with a male pronoun.

In what world is calling a black man "boy" in a disrespectful manner the same as calling other men, boys, or even white boy? I'm sure you are the type to say "cracker" is the same as using the n-word. Where is the history of oppression or anything heinous behind that? No, no adult wants to be called a boy in a disrespectful manner but there is a clear difference in that than when a white male (female) calls a black man one. Sounds like people who thought we should accept black men being called a boy because at least you were considered human now.

Another problem is people acting like this is past behavior. Police officers, as one example, do it all the time. Of course people who aren't affected think these things are 'history' because it doesn't hit home.

[gpap]

Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.

you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.

If the word boy is so offensive, why is it on birth certificates? Why is it in baby showers? Why is it everywhere?

Its not a racial slur. Its never been a racial slur. It has no negative connotation whatsoever. Its a term southerners use to refer to someone young. That's it. It stops there. Race has nothing to do with it


The real racists are the ones attaching negative connotation to innocent terms

My friend, you may want to re-think what you're saying. Unless you're just intentionally trying to elicit strong reactions from people. Either way, I'd stop. Just some friendly advice. That is all......

[Erik]

I’m pretty sure that calling any adult male “boy” is offensive I.e. “white boy” that I hear all too often in the hip hop culture. That’s acceptable, right?

I’m just waiting for the day that we just move on and stop getting offended over everything. We took a bit of a detour over the last 10 years for sure. God forbid I refer to someone with a five o’clock shadow with a male pronoun.

In what world is calling a black man "boy" in a disrespectful manner the same as calling other men, boys, or even white boy? I'm sure you are the type to say "cracker" is the same as using the n-word. Where is the history of oppression or anything heinous behind that? No, no adult wants to be called a boy in a disrespectful manner but there is a clear difference in that than when a white male (female) calls a black man one. Sounds like people who thought we should accept black men being called a boy because at least you were considered human now.

Another problem is people acting like this is past behavior. Police officers, as one example, do it all the time. Of course people who aren't affected think these things are 'history' because it doesn't hit home.

Here’s my take on it as a first generation American whose ancestry had nothing whatsoever to do with any of the racial problems: the sooner we start acting as one, the sooner we will be one. “Boy” is offensive to any man and has been used as an insult throughout time, period. That’s common ground. You call anyone a boy and they’re ready to swing. Instead, we have to say that black people should be more offended because slaveowners called slaves “boy.” It’s as if to say there was ANY positive conversation between the two groups. They figurately used every insult there was towards slaves.

I’m all for banning the guy. He’s clearly a **** and it’s private property. But my man it’s 2019. Can’t we just agree that “boy” is just an offensive word and leave it at that?

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I’m pretty sure that calling any adult male “boy” is offensive I.e. “white boy” that I hear all too often in the hip hop culture. That’s acceptable, right?

I’m just waiting for the day that we just move on and stop getting offended over everything. We took a bit of a detour over the last 10 years for sure. God forbid I refer to someone with a five o’clock shadow with a male pronoun.

In what world is calling a black man "boy" in a disrespectful manner the same as calling other men, boys, or even white boy? I'm sure you are the type to say "cracker" is the same as using the n-word. Where is the history of oppression or anything heinous behind that? No, no adult wants to be called a boy in a disrespectful manner but there is a clear difference in that than when a white male (female) calls a black man one. Sounds like people who thought we should accept black men being called a boy because at least you were considered human now.

Another problem is people acting like this is past behavior. Police officers, as one example, do it all the time. Of course people who aren't affected think these things are 'history' because it doesn't hit home.

Here’s my take on it as a first generation American whose ancestry had nothing whatsoever to do with any of the racial problems: the sooner we start acting as one, the sooner we will be one. “Boy” is offensive to any man and has been used as an insult throughout time, period. That’s common ground. You call anyone a boy and they’re ready to swing. Instead, we have to say that black people should be more offended because slaveowners called slaves “boy.” It’s as if to say there was ANY positive conversation between the two groups. They figurately used every insult there was towards slaves.

I’m all for banning the guy. He’s clearly a **** and it’s private property. But my man it’s 2019. Can’t we just agree that “boy” is just an offensive word and leave it at that?

Who is disagreeing on whether it's offensive to any man? No, I'm sorry if you don't like it, it's more offensive in one context than the other, 2019 or not. How often have you or anyone you know been called boy in a disrespectful manor anyway? I'm not saying people don't use it to any man with negative connotation but how often does anyone really go out of their way, argument or w/e, to call other men boys? How often have you heard a police officer call a white man a boy? That isn't a thing, this isn't an "all the same situation." I know it's 2019 but racists don't care.

Something else I find stupid, how police always call black men boys, but always say boys are grown men, at least 4 years on average, older than their actual age.

I know this isn't about police but it's the easiest example to use that isn't "history."

BTW, I'm a woman, my man.

[Erik]

Wait, did you just get offended because I assumed your gender online?  How fitting!

Anyway, your statement that cops always call black people boy is hyperbole trending towards absurdity. It might be like that in the movies, but this isn’t a widespread thing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

But sure, go ahead and fight the good fight by continuing to divide us in every way possible. Tell me how I’m supposed to feel about being insulted compared to someone else.

The path forward is actually acting like we’re all equal.

[Ogaju]

Wow censorship. The days of heckling are over.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26273966/jazz-ban-2nd-fan-called-westbrook-boy

Kudos to Westbrook for bringing the racism to light.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Wait, did you just get offended because I assumed your gender online?  How fitting!

Anyway, your statement that cops always call black people boy is hyperbole trending towards absurdity. It might be like that in the movies, but this isn’t a widespread thing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

But sure, go ahead and fight the good fight by continuing to divide us in every way possible. Tell me how I’m supposed to feel about being insulted compared to someone else.

The path forward is actually acting like we’re all equal.

I wasn't offended that you called me a man, I have been called worse and I don't assume everyone knows I am a woman because there is no picture. I have been called man/dude on here many times. If you were trying to offend me, you failed. I was only sending back your condescending vibes! So, if it fit, you must have made alterations! 

Find ONE instance where I said police always do it (as in every time), I'll wait...

Right, I'M the one dividing people, that is truly hilarious.

[Ogaju]

Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.

you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

if you think having enough money to pay for NBA ticket gives a fan the right to live out his or her racist fantasies then you are greatly exaggerating what that ticket allows. The NBA ticket grants you a license to attend the game not to abuse players. You can cheer for your team and against the opponent, I do not believe the license extends to free reign to abuse anyone.

[Erik]

Wait, did you just get offended because I assumed your gender online?  How fitting!

Anyway, your statement that cops always call black people boy is hyperbole trending towards absurdity. It might be like that in the movies, but this isn’t a widespread thing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

But sure, go ahead and fight the good fight by continuing to divide us in every way possible. Tell me how I’m supposed to feel about being insulted compared to someone else.

The path forward is actually acting like we’re all equal.

I wasn't offended that you called me a man, I have been called worse and I don't assume everyone knows I am a woman because there is no picture. I have been called man/dude on here many times. If you were trying to offend me, you failed. I was only sending back your condescending vibes! So, if it fit, you must have made alterations! 

Find ONE instance where I said police always do it (as in every time), I'll wait...

Right, I'M the one dividing people, that is truly hilarious.

Here’s two, just tonight.

Another problem is people acting like [calling black men boy] is past behavior. Police officers, as one example, do it all the time. Of course people who aren't affected think these things are 'history' because it doesn't hit home.

Something else I find stupid, how police always call black men boys, but always say boys are grown men, at least 4 years on average, older than their actual age.

[Ogaju]

Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.

you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.

no, I am not speculating the history of how that word had been used in some instances in the past.

But what we know for certain is that:

1) the man was trying to incite Westbrook to get him off his game
2) Yeah, calling a man a boy is always going to get under an Alpha types skin, no matter the color
3) fans wanting to be a part of the action has ALWAYS been a integral part of being a fan, it what makes a fan a fan.

we do not know for certainty that this was meant as a racial slur, as this term hasn't been used racially for a long time in relation to everyday vernacular, and instead has become an insult on ones manhood as opposed to ones race.


And I am only showing concern over the precedent that it sets, because in this day and age of sensitivity and political correctness (which to a certain sense I 100% agree with) it can very quickly get out of hand.

And I would argue that tone has as much to do with how something is interpreted than anything. If I called Westbrook "darlin" or "Princess" or "Little Lady" would I be banned as well?

If I offered him a banana Popsicle;e would I be banned?

What if I ate Fried Chicken courtside pregame and offered him some out of complete sincerity, would that be racist?

again I want it know that I am not trying to come off as a racist, merely trying to make a point that I think if the league teams are starting down this road that they are going to have to come up with a more strict set of rules/guidelines that govern both player and fan acions during the game....and perhaps stop serving booze, or put bustops around the player benches with music piped into them so that the interactions between player and fan are limited, because as long as you have 19000 people cheering for the home team the opposing team will always be villainized....its a mob mentality.

you are not doing a very good job of 'not trying to come off as racist' you just hit the trifecta of racism. I wonder how you would do if you were really trying.

[Ogaju]

I’m pretty sure that calling any adult male “boy” is offensive I.e. “white boy” that I hear all too often in the hip hop culture. That’s acceptable, right?

I’m just waiting for the day that we just move on and stop getting offended over everything. We took a bit of a detour over the last 10 years for sure. God forbid I refer to someone with a five o’clock shadow with a male pronoun.

In what world is calling a black man "boy" in a disrespectful manner the same as calling other men, boys, or even white boy? I'm sure you are the type to say "cracker" is the same as using the n-word. Where is the history of oppression or anything heinous behind that? No, no adult wants to be called a boy in a disrespectful manner but there is a clear difference in that than when a white male (female) calls a black man one. Sounds like people who thought we should accept black men being called a boy because at least you were considered human now.

Another problem is people acting like this is past behavior. Police officers, as one example, do it all the time. Of course people who aren't affected think these things are 'history' because it doesn't hit home.

Here’s my take on it as a first generation American whose ancestry had nothing whatsoever to do with any of the racial problems: the sooner we start acting as one, the sooner we will be one. “Boy” is offensive to any man and has been used as an insult throughout time, period. That’s common ground. You call anyone a boy and they’re ready to swing. Instead, we have to say that black people should be more offended because slaveowners called slaves “boy.” It’s as if to say there was ANY positive conversation between the two groups. They figurately used every insult there was towards slaves.

I’m all for banning the guy. He’s clearly a **** and it’s private property. But my man it’s 2019. Can’t we just agree that “boy” is just an offensive word and leave it at that?

No we cant just leave it at that. Why should we, so that racists can get away with racism? You have to call racist taunts for what they are.