Brad, please make Hayward the sixth man

[GreenEnvy]

I think you've got to take a look at who was on the floor when the Celtics had their slow start the first half in OKC. And who was on the floor when the Celtics finished strongly to win that game.

Maybe I'm wrong, but Hayward started the game, and was not in the lineup at the finish.

Stevens is going to have a hard time with this, but it looks to me Hayward's slowness is affecting their running game at the outset. Slowing down guys like Brown and Tatum. This team needs to run to win, and needs the D, and it doesn't look like Hayward is there yet in his conditioning to be effective. He's at the substitute level right now.

Stevens is having to learn the hard way, but it's looking like he has to tweak that starting lineup. This stuff should have been figured out the pre-season, but there were hardly any minutes that starting 5 played in those few pre-season games.

Stevens isn’t learning the hard way, he sees the end goal and doesn’t really put much stock in “October basketball.”

We came out flat against Orlando. And we couldn’t close against Toronto. But we did get off to a hot start against Philly when Gordon was most nervous/rusty. It’s more about the other guys not hitting their shots than him being less than 100%. He’ll get to where we need him to be, and CBS has to keep him with the starters as much as possible because there is zero chance he’s not with them when the playoffs come and they need to build chemistry.

I know we all wanted to be 5-0 with a +21.7 differential, but we are fine. We needed that 3rd quarter last night to see shots falling. We hit what, 9 treys in that frame? That gave us the confidence to come roaring back down 9 with less than 5 minutes to go.

Tomorrow night in Detroit should be fun, they are playing very well right now.

[nnbenoit]

Hayward is not a top five player right now. He has yet to dunk the ball and his lateral speed is poor. He still is strong on the block defensively and rebounding has been solid.
We don't know when his quickness and explosiveness will return and it might now happen this year. Hayward and Tatum are also the same player and redundant. We could use a different player in the lineup that offers something else. Baynes, Theis, or Smart all add more hustle and defense over Hayward. You would have a better chance at some offensive rebounds considering all the threes that we miss with either Smart or Theis. The first unit is just laking in hustle and rim protection with limited ability to bang. We need a Dennis Rodman type player that will show the rest of the team how to bring the energy right from the start. The starting lineup is a problem right now.

[moiso]

Hayward is not a top five player right now. He has yet to dunk the ball and his lateral speed is poor. He still is strong on the block defensively and rebounding has been solid.
We don't know when his quickness and explosiveness will return and it might now happen this year. Hayward and Tatum are also the same player and redundant. We could use a different player in the lineup that offers something else. Baynes, Theis, or Smart all add more hustle and defense over Hayward. You would have a better chance at some offensive rebounds considering all the threes that we miss with either Smart or Theis. The first unit is just laking in hustle and rim protection with limited ability to bang. We need a Dennis Rodman type player that will show the rest of the team how to bring the energy right from the start. The starting lineup is a problem right now.

Have your first TP.  I agree with the redundancy comment.  We have too many similar players at the same position.  Looks like Charles Barkley was right and I agreed with him from the beginning.  We do have too much talent- too much redundant talent.  And as Moranis frequently points out- Irving is super one dimensional.  Right now Hayward is playing with Wally Szserbiak athleticism and it's not pretty.  But I think Brown has been just as bad.  Maybe one of them should come off the bench for the time being.

[GreenFaith1819]

No.

Gordon Hayward should remain the starter.

He was starting last season - and then suffered that horrible injury. Not his fault at all.

He is BACK now, HEALTHY and just trying to get his legs under him and get used to the game.

Forget standings. Forget stats. Just let the man get reps.

Boston NEEDS to finish what it started - and that is with the lineup including GH.

Great teams don't RUN at the sign of adversity. They STAY THE COURSE.

[Somebody]

Imo it isn't completely Hayward's fault-Kyrie is super one dimensional as noted above and is Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. defensively, Brown has been cold so far and Brad is playing Hayward out of position (at least with him currently recovering from his injury) at PF. He could do well off the bench as the leader of the second unit, that way he gets his reps while not messing up the other starters, and helps the team.

[Chris22]

Hayward is not a top five player right now. He has yet to dunk the ball and his lateral speed is poor. He still is strong on the block defensively and rebounding has been solid.
We don't know when his quickness and explosiveness will return and it might now happen this year. Hayward and Tatum are also the same player and redundant. We could use a different player in the lineup that offers something else. Baynes, Theis, or Smart all add more hustle and defense over Hayward. You would have a better chance at some offensive rebounds considering all the threes that we miss with either Smart or Theis. The first unit is just laking in hustle and rim protection with limited ability to bang. We need a Dennis Rodman type player that will show the rest of the team how to bring the energy right from the start. The starting lineup is a problem right now.

Rebounding and rim protection. Hmmm....if only we had a rookie who was good at both those things.

[Surferdad]

I think you've got to take a look at who was on the floor when the Celtics had their slow start the first half in OKC. And who was on the floor when the Celtics finished strongly to win that game.

Maybe I'm wrong, but Hayward started the game, and was not in the lineup at the finish.

Stevens is going to have a hard time with this, but it looks to me Hayward's slowness is affecting their running game at the outset. Slowing down guys like Brown and Tatum. This team needs to run to win, and needs the D, and it doesn't look like Hayward is there yet in his conditioning to be effective. He's at the substitute level right now.

Stevens is having to learn the hard way, but it's looking like he has to tweak that starting lineup. This stuff should have been figured out the pre-season, but there were hardly any minutes that starting 5 played in those few pre-season games.

Stevens isn’t learning the hard way, he sees the end goal and doesn’t really put much stock in “October basketball.”

We came out flat against Orlando. And we couldn’t close against Toronto. But we did get off to a hot start against Philly when Gordon was most nervous/rusty. It’s more about the other guys not hitting their shots than him being less than 100%. He’ll get to where we need him to be, and CBS has to keep him with the starters as much as possible because there is zero chance he’s not with them when the playoffs come and they need to build chemistry.

I know we all wanted to be 5-0 with a +21.7 differential, but we are fine. We needed that 3rd quarter last night to see shots falling. We hit what, 9 treys in that frame? That gave us the confidence to come roaring back down 9 with less than 5 minutes to go.

Tomorrow night in Detroit should be fun, they are playing very well right now.

Yeah, I think a lot of folks including national pundits, are over-analyzing the situation, saying there's a 'fit' problem on this team with so many good shooters and guys unsure of their roles.  IMO, it's just a matter of shots not falling for this team.  The good news is that will change for a team leading the league in defense.

[droopdog7]

The OP gas it wrong.  Jaylen is the one that needs to come off the bench.  More importantly, he shouldn’t be in the closing lineup either.  Soon enough, our best five will include smart, not brown.  Pretty much how I predicted over the summer.

[coco]

I do not agree.  Hayward needs time to gel.  Right now, his major problem is chemistry.  He likes to "scope" around  like jason kidd used to do.  And so, the other players don't know what to do with a player like that.

It will be fine.  Hayward will figure it out and so will our team.

..I am a bit more concerned with JBrown and TRozzier. 

[More Banners]

It would be nice to see a facilitator/ scorer on the 2nd unit that isn't playing for a contract.

The Ginobli comparison could be a good one.  And it would perhaps result in the best combinations of youth/veterans across lineups, presuming Horford and Kyrie continue to start.

Or he starts; plays 32 minutes in 4 minute rotations.

But let's give it at least 10 before a major boat rocking. It's early.

[Rosco917]

I'd like to see Brown go to the bench, Hayward move to the SG, Tatum slide to the SF position and Morris be the starting PF. At least while Baynes is out. I feel Horford could use a little help down low while Baynes is out.

Even now at about 85-90%, Hayward is a better passer, a better shooter, a better ballhandler than Brown is at this point.

Brown would play in shorter stints and hopefully get some confidence going in his offense.

[footey]

I'd like to see Brown go to the bench, Hayward move to the SG, Tatum slide to the SF position and Morris be the starting PF. At least while Baynes is out. I feel Horford could use a little help down low while Baynes is out.

Even now at about 85-90%, Hayward is a better passer, a better shooter, a better ballhandler than Brown is at this point.

Brown would play in shorter stints and hopefully get some confidence going in his offense.

Not sure benching him will get his confidence going. But I like your lineup adjustment.

[Rosco917]

I'd like to see Brown go to the bench, Hayward move to the SG, Tatum slide to the SF position and Morris be the starting PF. At least while Baynes is out. I feel Horford could use a little help down low while Baynes is out.

Even now at about 85-90%, Hayward is a better passer, a better shooter, a better ballhandler than Brown is at this point.

Brown would play in shorter stints and hopefully get some confidence going in his offense.

Not sure benching him will get his confidence going. But I like your lineup adjustment.

A player without a confidence issue would take it as a challenge and step up. Maybe a little time on the floor where he is the main go-to player on offense will help.

[bellerephon]

People are focusing too much on the second unit and having guys come off the bench. The Celts don't need to move one of the starters to the bench, Brad has no trouble managing the rotations so that one of the starters is always on the floor. It is rare, outside of late game blowouts, for the Celts to have five bench players on the floor at the same time, there is usually a starter or two on the floor. There is simply no advantage to moving Hayward or anyone else to the bench since it is very easy to set up the rotation to keep a starter on the floor. People are talking as if the Celts bench is out there with no scorers, that is simply not happening.

[Who]

People are focusing too much on the second unit and having guys come off the bench. The Celts don't need to move one of the starters to the bench, Brad has no trouble managing the rotations so that one of the starters is always on the floor. It is rare, outside of late game blowouts, for the Celts to have five bench players on the floor at the same time, there is usually a starter or two on the floor. There is simply no advantage to moving Hayward or anyone else to the bench since it is very easy to set up the rotation to keep a starter on the floor. People are talking as if the Celts bench is out there with no scorers, that is simply not happening.

It is not so much about the 2nd unit as it is about the starting unit.

About making sure everyone is getting enough touches and is being involved in the offense. That hasn't been happening early in the season with Jaylen Brown in particular being on the periphery of the action.

Moving one starter to the bench in favour of a low usage bench player (like Baynes, Theiss, Smart) gives the other 4 starters a better chance at starting off the game in an aggressive and effective way. And allows the starter who moves to the bench to do the same because he comes in to replace one of the others.

It is to get the maximum possible out of the best players.

From there, the question is who? I say Hayward over Brown or Tatum because his superior ball-handling, passing & shot-creation make him more useful as a go-to guy in less effective lineups than Tatum or Brown.