Author Topic: Derrick White extension?  (Read 7082 times)

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Re: Derrick White extension?
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2023, 12:12:48 PM »

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But here's the point of contention with that, I think: if a situation is more common than not, perhaps - some might even say by definition - we should consider that it isn't an exception to the rule.

edit: The Ringer's new rankings are up. White comes in at 56:
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

For anyone that doesn't want to give Simmons & co. more traffic:
Tatum - 5
Jaylen - 22
Jrue - 37
White - 56
Kristaps - 59
Horford - 82

Porzingis down low again at 59. I am shocked he is low on each one of these rankings. I would expect him to be in the 30s. This is the 3rd one now.

Smart came in at 69.

Yeah, if KP plays like last year, he's a top-30 player.  I assume rankings are taking health concerns and lack of winning into account, but he's got all-star talent.

Watching preseason he's been really efficient and comfortable with Tatum/brown. Almost like every shot he's taken is wide open.

That pick and pop has been unstoppable

He may just be victim of playing on a poor team last year and his injury history

I thought last year was the best year of Porzingis' career. I also thought he played some of his best basketball on the Knicks when they were bad. And that he was more up and down / inconsistent when on a good team in Dallas.

So I have the opposite viewpoint on Porzingis. Not a victim of being on a bad team but someone who does better on bad teams and worse on good teams. How does this work?

Essentially, you are the man and everything runs through you. For some players, particularly those with a low BBIQ which I consider Porzingis to have, this simplifies the game for them. It also gives them a more consistently high number touches and shot attempts. It builds an offense around their strengths rather than asking them to adapt and fit in around other people.

Now, Porzingis is back on a good team and we will see how that viewpoint measures up. Whether it is wrong or not.



I would add, a lot of these shot attempts that Porzingis has looked so good at taking here in Boston where also the same types of looks he was able to get in Dallas next to Luka. There were times when they looked fantastic together but those times did not last.

Will it be different in Boston? Hopefully.

Will Boston's more spread out offense be a difference maker vs more individualist Mavs offense based around Luka? Hopefully.

I love Porzingis skill-set but I have long considered him a stupid player. As evidenced by his low assist numbers. His self-absorbed style of offense. His inability to find good shots within the offense when the offense is not built around him. How often he becomes peripheral on offense and ends up just standing around (all the way back to his early years in Spain right through his NBA career). I have also viewed him as an underachiever both on defense & rebounding wise while failing to understand both to importance of each of these as well as his own individual capacity to be a game changer for his team in these areas. So I don't like his BBIQ.

Fitting in and adapting to a team is about skill-set and BBIQ. He has always had the skill-set. He wasn't able to make it work in Dallas. Hopefully it will be different here.

Re: Derrick White extension?
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2023, 04:45:19 PM »

Offline moiso

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But here's the point of contention with that, I think: if a situation is more common than not, perhaps - some might even say by definition - we should consider that it isn't an exception to the rule.

edit: The Ringer's new rankings are up. White comes in at 56:
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

For anyone that doesn't want to give Simmons & co. more traffic:
Tatum - 5
Jaylen - 22
Jrue - 37
White - 56
Kristaps - 59
Horford - 82

Porzingis down low again at 59. I am shocked he is low on each one of these rankings. I would expect him to be in the 30s. This is the 3rd one now.

Smart came in at 69.

Yeah, if KP plays like last year, he's a top-30 player.  I assume rankings are taking health concerns and lack of winning into account, but he's got all-star talent.

Watching preseason he's been really efficient and comfortable with Tatum/brown. Almost like every shot he's taken is wide open.

That pick and pop has been unstoppable

He may just be victim of playing on a poor team last year and his injury history

I thought last year was the best year of Porzingis' career. I also thought he played some of his best basketball on the Knicks when they were bad. And that he was more up and down / inconsistent when on a good team in Dallas.

So I have the opposite viewpoint on Porzingis. Not a victim of being on a bad team but someone who does better on bad teams and worse on good teams. How does this work?

Essentially, you are the man and everything runs through you. For some players, particularly those with a low BBIQ which I consider Porzingis to have, this simplifies the game for them. It also gives them a more consistently high number touches and shot attempts. It builds an offense around their strengths rather than asking them to adapt and fit in around other people.

Now, Porzingis is back on a good team and we will see how that viewpoint measures up. Whether it is wrong or not.



I would add, a lot of these shot attempts that Porzingis has looked so good at taking here in Boston where also the same types of looks he was able to get in Dallas next to Luka. There were times when they looked fantastic together but those times did not last.

Will it be different in Boston? Hopefully.

Will Boston's more spread out offense be a difference maker vs more individualist Mavs offense based around Luka? Hopefully.

I love Porzingis skill-set but I have long considered him a stupid player. As evidenced by his low assist numbers. His self-absorbed style of offense. His inability to find good shots within the offense when the offense is not built around him. How often he becomes peripheral on offense and ends up just standing around (all the way back to his early years in Spain right through his NBA career). I have also viewed him as an underachiever both on defense & rebounding wise while failing to understand both to importance of each of these as well as his own individual capacity to be a game changer for his team in these areas. So I don't like his BBIQ.

Fitting in and adapting to a team is about skill-set and BBIQ. He has always had the skill-set. He wasn't able to make it work in Dallas. Hopefully it will be different here.
I don't think he ever looked as healthy on Dallas as he has looked the last couple of years.  He always seemed hobbled and limping around.  I think on this team he will get better shots than he's ever gotten in his career and I expect him to be very effecient.   He looks fantastic so far.

Re: Derrick White extension?
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2023, 05:13:16 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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But here's the point of contention with that, I think: if a situation is more common than not, perhaps - some might even say by definition - we should consider that it isn't an exception to the rule.

edit: The Ringer's new rankings are up. White comes in at 56:
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

For anyone that doesn't want to give Simmons & co. more traffic:
Tatum - 5
Jaylen - 22
Jrue - 37
White - 56
Kristaps - 59
Horford - 82

Porzingis down low again at 59. I am shocked he is low on each one of these rankings. I would expect him to be in the 30s. This is the 3rd one now.

Smart came in at 69.

Yeah, if KP plays like last year, he's a top-30 player.  I assume rankings are taking health concerns and lack of winning into account, but he's got all-star talent.

Watching preseason he's been really efficient and comfortable with Tatum/brown. Almost like every shot he's taken is wide open.

That pick and pop has been unstoppable

He may just be victim of playing on a poor team last year and his injury history

I thought last year was the best year of Porzingis' career. I also thought he played some of his best basketball on the Knicks when they were bad. And that he was more up and down / inconsistent when on a good team in Dallas.

So I have the opposite viewpoint on Porzingis. Not a victim of being on a bad team but someone who does better on bad teams and worse on good teams. How does this work?

Essentially, you are the man and everything runs through you. For some players, particularly those with a low BBIQ which I consider Porzingis to have, this simplifies the game for them. It also gives them a more consistently high number touches and shot attempts. It builds an offense around their strengths rather than asking them to adapt and fit in around other people.

Now, Porzingis is back on a good team and we will see how that viewpoint measures up. Whether it is wrong or not.



I would add, a lot of these shot attempts that Porzingis has looked so good at taking here in Boston where also the same types of looks he was able to get in Dallas next to Luka. There were times when they looked fantastic together but those times did not last.

Will it be different in Boston? Hopefully.

Will Boston's more spread out offense be a difference maker vs more individualist Mavs offense based around Luka? Hopefully.

I love Porzingis skill-set but I have long considered him a stupid player. As evidenced by his low assist numbers. His self-absorbed style of offense. His inability to find good shots within the offense when the offense is not built around him. How often he becomes peripheral on offense and ends up just standing around (all the way back to his early years in Spain right through his NBA career). I have also viewed him as an underachiever both on defense & rebounding wise while failing to understand both to importance of each of these as well as his own individual capacity to be a game changer for his team in these areas. So I don't like his BBIQ.

Fitting in and adapting to a team is about skill-set and BBIQ. He has always had the skill-set. He wasn't able to make it work in Dallas. Hopefully it will be different here.


Watching Porzingis in preseason and listening to him during interviews, he strikes me as an intelligent player. Horford said he’s been unbelievable since joining the C’s. In regards to his time as a Maverick, I’m not sure anyone can fit with Luka. Kyrie certainly isn’t and Brunson wanted out of Dallas. I’m also not sure about the correlation between having low assist numbers and being a dumb player. Especially for a legitimate big that isn’t handling the ball much. Klay Thompson is a 2/3 and his career average is 2.3 assists per game. I certainly don’t view him as a low IQ player, just because his assist numbers are low.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2023, 08:19:36 PM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Derrick White extension?
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2023, 10:40:31 PM »

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Approaching closing time, has anyone heard anything about D White's extension?
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Re: Derrick White extension?
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2023, 12:03:20 AM »

Offline radiohead

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Approaching closing time, has anyone heard anything about D White's extension?

I read in one report that DW said something to the line of “if it happens, it happens”. But he made it clear that he’s very happy in Boston and would want to stay long term. So maybe there’s really no rush on both sides to get something done at this time?

Re: Derrick White extension?
« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2023, 12:23:21 AM »

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Approaching closing time, has anyone heard anything about D White's extension?

Seems like it didn’t happen, per Twitter.   Oh well, but not a big deal since he’s still under contact next year.

Re: Derrick White extension?
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2023, 10:50:54 AM »

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There are two guys who can consistently lead the Celtics. One is Jayson Tatum and the other is Derrick White.
One of them should always be on the court. In his absence it's showing that White may the second best player on the Celtics. Albeit it's a close call with Porzingis. As KGB in Rounders would say "Pay him his money"!

Re: Derrick White extension?
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2023, 11:37:03 AM »

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There are two guys who can consistently lead the Celtics. One is Jayson Tatum and the other is Derrick White.
One of them should always be on the court. In his absence it's showing that White may the second best player on the Celtics. Albeit it's a close call with Porzingis. As KGB in Rounders would say "Pay him his money"!

It makes me kinda irritated that Brad had to pay Jaylen Brown $303M to become a #4 or #5 option. And still juggles around with his shots and handles. Nauseating. Don't mean to hijack a thread, but Derrick deserves a payday.


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Re: Derrick White extension?
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2023, 12:36:01 PM »

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There are two guys who can consistently lead the Celtics. One is Jayson Tatum and the other is Derrick White.
One of them should always be on the court. In his absence it's showing that White may the second best player on the Celtics. Albeit it's a close call with Porzingis. As KGB in Rounders would say "Pay him his money"!

It makes me kinda irritated that Brad had to pay Jaylen Brown $303M to become a #4 or #5 option. And still juggles around with his shots and handles. Nauseating. Don't mean to hijack a thread, but Derrick deserves a payday.

If Jaylen still can't improve his dribbling and decision-making then honestly, I think he will cost us a chance at championships especially the deeper they go into the postseason. Warriors and Heat kinda used it to their advantage (even though I know Tatum was also bad the 2022 Finals while JB showed up)
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Derrick White extension?
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2023, 03:04:10 PM »

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Brown continues to not be important to Boston winning games.  Tatum is still the main driver of success, but White is right there. Those 2 just seem to fit really well together. 
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