Nets couldn’t trade shamet for a 1st.

[CelticsElite]

The Brooklyn Nets tried to acquire a first round pick for Landry Shamet as part of the James Harden trade in order to keep Jarrett Allen, but were unsuccessful. The Houston Rockets preferred a future first round pick originating from the Milwaukee Bucks via the Cleveland Cavaliers and salary relief instead of trading for Allen.

The Nets will be limited in how they can upgrade their roster based on their limited asset base beyond Harden, Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving and Joe Harris.

"I don't know what sort of trade value they have left on their roster," said Brian Windhorst on his podcast. "I talked to two different teams that the Nets offered Landry Shamet to in the last week, attempting to get a first round pick. They were trying to keep Jarrett Allen, as you can imagine. To get the fourth first round pick, they were trying to find a team that would give them anything. And so they shopped Landry Shamet pretty hard from what I understand.

"I mean I talked to two teams that just mentioned it in passing. I didn't do an entire sweep of the league. My guess is they offered him to numerous teams trying to get that first round pick. Maybe Landry gets hot playing alongside all of these stars. If that's a guy they deem movable, you know, maybe that changes. I just don't see a lot of assets on the roster. And of course they have no first round picks they can trade."

[Uncle_Stingfinger]

Might not need anything if Kyrie can get right for a playoff run. 

Harden was hot tonight!

[Moranis]

I still don't understand why the Rockets wanted a pick that will be in the late 20's instead of Jarret Allen.

[Androslav]

I think it is cause they would have to pay Allen 20+ million this summer.

Fertita has different goals than some other owners.

[A Future of Stevens]

I still don't understand why the Rockets wanted a pick that will be in the late 20's instead of Jarret Allen.

That is also the point I keep getting confused by. Allen might never be a superstar, but he seems like he obviously has a future in the league as a league average center (at least.)

6'11 shot blockers who have shown flashes of ball skills don't grow on trees. Plus his hair game is on point. I am a huge fan of huge afros so I may be biased.

Edit: I understand that Andro, but they have to pay the money to somebody. A long term investment of 20+ a year in a player like Allen is a smart investment. That Wall contract may be weighing heavily on their minds.

[Moranis]

I still don't understand why the Rockets wanted a pick that will be in the late 20's instead of Jarret Allen.

That is also the point I keep getting confused by. Allen might never be a superstar, but he seems like he obviously has a future in the league as a league average center (at least.)

6'11 shot blockers who have shown flashes of ball skills don't grow on trees. Plus his hair game is on point. I am a huge fan of huge afros so I may be biased.

Edit: I understand that Andro, but they have to pay the money to somebody. A long term investment of 20+ a year in a player like Allen is a smart investment. That Wall contract may be weighing heavily on their minds.

And they still probably could have moved him later in the year and still ended up with the 1st round pick anyway (if not more).  It isn't like the trade was going to go away. 

[A Future of Stevens]

I still don't understand why the Rockets wanted a pick that will be in the late 20's instead of Jarret Allen.

That is also the point I keep getting confused by. Allen might never be a superstar, but he seems like he obviously has a future in the league as a league average center (at least.)

6'11 shot blockers who have shown flashes of ball skills don't grow on trees. Plus his hair game is on point. I am a huge fan of huge afros so I may be biased.

Edit: I understand that Andro, but they have to pay the money to somebody. A long term investment of 20+ a year in a player like Allen is a smart investment. That Wall contract may be weighing heavily on their minds.

And they still probably could have moved him later in the year and still ended up with the 1st round pick anyway (if not more).  It isn't like the trade was going to go away.

True. If the deadline comes around, and playoff teams/ borderline playoff teams need a center, I can't imagine people would throw a fit over a 15-30 1st for Allen. Especially since the team trading for him would have his RFA.

[Moranis]

I still don't understand why the Rockets wanted a pick that will be in the late 20's instead of Jarret Allen.

That is also the point I keep getting confused by. Allen might never be a superstar, but he seems like he obviously has a future in the league as a league average center (at least.)

6'11 shot blockers who have shown flashes of ball skills don't grow on trees. Plus his hair game is on point. I am a huge fan of huge afros so I may be biased.

Edit: I understand that Andro, but they have to pay the money to somebody. A long term investment of 20+ a year in a player like Allen is a smart investment. That Wall contract may be weighing heavily on their minds.

And they still probably could have moved him later in the year and still ended up with the 1st round pick anyway (if not more).  It isn't like the trade was going to go away.

True. If the deadline comes around, and playoff teams/ borderline playoff teams need a center, I can't imagine people would throw a fit over a 15-30 1st for Allen. Especially since the team trading for him would have his RFA.

Yep.  I think Boston would have gladly done it, for example.  Probably would have been ok with Prince as well if that is what it took to get it done.  Prince, Allen for Semi, Green, BOS 1st, Cash with Boston using part of the TPE (I think that keeps Boston under the apron but if necessary a larger contract or another player could go out).  I think that would have been a better trade for the Rockets as Boston's pick is likely better than Milwaukee's and they get Semi who can at least be a cheap bench player for them.  I do think Boston would have done that as well, as that gives Boston a real legit center going forward in Allen and better wing depth in Prince (who next year would have been a good sized expiring contract helping facilitate trades). 

I just don't get that part of the trade from Houston.  I get the rest of it, but just don't understand why they wouldn't want Allen or at least wouldn't want the option to shop him over a longer period to see if they could get a better package for him.

[A Future of Stevens]

I still don't understand why the Rockets wanted a pick that will be in the late 20's instead of Jarret Allen.

That is also the point I keep getting confused by. Allen might never be a superstar, but he seems like he obviously has a future in the league as a league average center (at least.)

6'11 shot blockers who have shown flashes of ball skills don't grow on trees. Plus his hair game is on point. I am a huge fan of huge afros so I may be biased.

Edit: I understand that Andro, but they have to pay the money to somebody. A long term investment of 20+ a year in a player like Allen is a smart investment. That Wall contract may be weighing heavily on their minds.

And they still probably could have moved him later in the year and still ended up with the 1st round pick anyway (if not more).  It isn't like the trade was going to go away.

True. If the deadline comes around, and playoff teams/ borderline playoff teams need a center, I can't imagine people would throw a fit over a 15-30 1st for Allen. Especially since the team trading for him would have his RFA.

Yep.  I think Boston would have gladly done it, for example.  Probably would have been ok with Prince as well if that is what it took to get it done.  Prince, Allen for Semi, Green, BOS 1st, Cash with Boston using part of the TPE (I think that keeps Boston under the apron but if necessary a larger contract or another player could go out).  I think that would have been a better trade for the Rockets as Boston's pick is likely better than Milwaukee's and they get Semi who can at least be a cheap bench player for them.  I do think Boston would have done that as well, as that gives Boston a real legit center going forward in Allen and better wing depth in Prince (who next year would have been a good sized expiring contract helping facilitate trades). 

I just don't get that part of the trade from Houston.  I get the rest of it, but just don't understand why they wouldn't want Allen or at least wouldn't want the option to shop him over a longer period to see if they could get a better package for him.

TP, honestly it seems like we are in lockstep on this one.

[Erik]

but just don't understand why they wouldn't want Allen or at least wouldn't want the option to shop him over a longer period to see if they could get a better package for him.

Because Allen is likely not in their future plans.
Because GMs value picks greater than fans do. Allen is a known decent quantity, a non lottery first round pick is potentially Giannis, which is franchise changing.

So while you are correct that Allen is a better player than a random late first rounder, he isn't value wise because value in most markets has a speculation modifier (like why TSLA is trading at 1,000 times earnings). That's usually why there is a great disconnect between fan trades and GM trades. Fan trades typically seek to balance using present value (and their perception of average result when facing the unknown) with little valid speculation -- because we're not analysts.

These teams have extensive analytics departments to calculate that speculation.

[Moranis]

but just don't understand why they wouldn't want Allen or at least wouldn't want the option to shop him over a longer period to see if they could get a better package for him.

Because Allen is likely not in their future plans.
Because GMs value picks greater than fans do. Allen is a known decent quantity, a non lottery first round pick is potentially Giannis, which is franchise changing.

So while you are correct that Allen is a better player than a random late first rounder, he isn't value wise because value in most markets has a speculation modifier (like why TSLA is trading at 1,000 times earnings). That's usually why there is a great disconnect between fan trades and GM trades. Fan trades typically seek to balance using present value (and their perception of average result when facing the unknown) with little valid speculation -- because we're not analysts.

These teams have extensive analytics departments to calculate that speculation.

Or it is just they have a cheap owner who didn't want any long term big money contracts (which is what Allen).  The part that doesn't make sense is some team would have given more than the 28th pick and removal of one year of Prince for Allen.  In fact, I think most teams that had the means to acquire both Allen and Prince would have gladly done so.  And Houston might have been able to attach Allen to Gordon and gotten out of a bigger, longer contract than Prince.  Even if Allen wasn't in the long term plans, they should have acquired him and then shopped him separately.  I mean it isn't like the Cavs wouldn't have traded Exum and the Milwaukee 1st later on.  There was absolutely no reason to do that part of the trade when you did the rest of it.  Houston cost themselves value by doing that.

[Roy H.]

I still don't understand why the Rockets wanted a pick that will be in the late 20's instead of Jarret Allen.

That is also the point I keep getting confused by. Allen might never be a superstar, but he seems like he obviously has a future in the league as a league average center (at least.)

6'11 shot blockers who have shown flashes of ball skills don't grow on trees. Plus his hair game is on point. I am a huge fan of huge afros so I may be biased.

Edit: I understand that Andro, but they have to pay the money to somebody. A long term investment of 20+ a year in a player like Allen is a smart investment. That Wall contract may be weighing heavily on their minds.

And they still probably could have moved him later in the year and still ended up with the 1st round pick anyway (if not more).  It isn't like the trade was going to go away.

True. If the deadline comes around, and playoff teams/ borderline playoff teams need a center, I can't imagine people would throw a fit over a 15-30 1st for Allen. Especially since the team trading for him would have his RFA.

Yep.  I think Boston would have gladly done it, for example.  Probably would have been ok with Prince as well if that is what it took to get it done.  Prince, Allen for Semi, Green, BOS 1st, Cash with Boston using part of the TPE (I think that keeps Boston under the apron but if necessary a larger contract or another player could go out).  I think that would have been a better trade for the Rockets as Boston's pick is likely better than Milwaukee's and they get Semi who can at least be a cheap bench player for them.  I do think Boston would have done that as well, as that gives Boston a real legit center going forward in Allen and better wing depth in Prince (who next year would have been a good sized expiring contract helping facilitate trades). 

I just don't get that part of the trade from Houston.  I get the rest of it, but just don't understand why they wouldn't want Allen or at least wouldn't want the option to shop him over a longer period to see if they could get a better package for him.

Regarding Boston, it would have cost us roughly $25 - $30 million next season between Prince’s salary and Allen’s projected deal.  That’s Oladipo money, for a position where we are 4-deep.  Plus, we are using the TPE and giving up a first.

Robert Williams is every bit as good as Allen, if not better.

[18isGREATERthan72]

Why is it hard to believe Houston didn't want Allen?

Don't they currently have Christian Wood on a good value contract who is significantly better than Allen, and Demarcus Cousins?  They would have to end up trading Cousins (unlikely) or Allen (also unlikely due to his contract situation coming up)

It would probably be hard for them to get great value for Allen, and then in the off season they would have to pay him north of $10m a year to keep him.  Even though Wood is probably a better player than Allen is, when the Rockets signed him, he was more speculative than Allen is currently.

I don't find it that unbelievable that the Rockets didn't value Allen very much considering they already have Wood.

[gouki88]

I still don't understand why the Rockets wanted a pick that will be in the late 20's instead of Jarret Allen.

Because they already have an All-Star level starting C and a solid backup C

[Moranis]

I still don't understand why the Rockets wanted a pick that will be in the late 20's instead of Jarret Allen.

Because they already have an All-Star level starting C and a solid backup C

Then trade him later in the season and get a higher draft pick.  The Cavs would have done that exact trade later in the year even if they couldn't find anything better.