Can we please stop with the calling out of fans?

[nickagneta]

I didn't see the game last night. I DVRed it. I watched the first 15 minutes when my son told me to go get some sleep because the game only got worse from there. I trusted his judgment and went to bed.

I get up this morning and there are some threads and posts calling out the Garden crowd. I gather they got on the team for a bad performance. Whatever. This thread isn't about that though I guess indirectly it is.

What I am getting a bit miffed at is the calling out of Celtic fans in general on this blog or at the Garden. Every fan is a fan and they decide to voice their enthusiasm about the team in different ways. But some of the venom being put out there as people discuss these issues is disturbing. Comments like the following seem to be becoming more and more commonplace here at Celticsblog:

The fans at the Garden suck.

These type of fans aren't real fans.

Go become a fan of _________(fill in the blank).

So called Celtic fans

Fans who do _________(fill in the blank) are more knowledge, dedicated, caring.....

Bandwagon fans....

Blind optimist fans....

Negative fans.....

This isn't some new phenomena that has just started but has been going on since mid January. People, we are all Celtics fans and this type of stuff has to stop. Everyone cheers and supports their team in different ways. Some critique, some cheer, some are endlessly hopeful, some not so much. We need to start accepting each other as different and stop with some of the bashing that goes on simply because we decide to support the team differently.

Don't like people who boo, fine. But it is a way of showing tough love and a way to support your team. Don't like people who are going to cheer even when the team is embarrassing itself, well those people are doing what they think will best help the team.

Enough with the painting of crowds at the Garden or people at this site with wide brushes and labeling them and calling them out.

Enough is enough. We all bleed green no matter how we decide to support this team.

 

[Junkyard Dawg]

I agree and TP, although it was pretty disheartening to hear about how many empty seats there were at tip-off yesterday...

[csfansince60s]

I believe that implicit in just even viewing Celticsblog, let alone joining or posting as often as so many of you do (I used to visit as a nonmember all the time till I finally decided to join and only post occasionally) makes you a fan. So I completely agree that anyone who calls anyone on this board out questioning their fanhood is off base (except for the occasional troll like Celdick was). Obviously there are many fans who do not view this blog and Cblog partaking is not a prereq for fanhood.

However, I think what many folks are riled about are the "pink hats". Those people who were not around in '06-'07 and who (like many Fakers fans do) come to the game to be seen and the "show".

An analogy I'll make is to a Red Sox fan who was interviewed after an Angels game this past week on Toucher and Rich on 98.5. Here are the questions and the answers.

Q. What is your favorite part of the game?
A. The sausages. (She was sure of  this answer)

Q. What is the shape of the infield?
A. An octagon? (wasn't real sure on this one)

Q. Name a player in the Hall of Fame.
A. Big Papi

Q. What position does Josh Beckett play?
A. Uhhh...1st base?

(this last one will blow you away)

Q. Who did they play tonite at the game you just attended?
A. Don't know.

Q. The team was from LA does that help?
A. Uhh...the LAKERS!!!

This person is a patron, not a fan. Most of those folks who arrived late last night to the Cs game were most likely patrons not fans. Being one does not necessarily make you the other. Many who follow this team, be they one year followers or 50 year followers, are fans because they truly care about the success of the team. The "pink hats" don't and are there (aside from the reasons listed above)because they can afford it. This in turn causes resentment from folks who are fans but can't be there, be it for financial reasons or personal circumstances. That pretty much summarizes the sentiment shared by Sox fans that morning and, I feel, is pretty analogous to our situation.

[nickagneta]

I believe that implicit in just even viewing Celticsblog, let alone joining or posting as often as so many of you do (I used to visit as a nonmember all the time till I finally decided to join and only post occasionally) makes you a fan. So I completely agree that anyone who calls anyone on this board out questioning their fanhood is off base (except for the occasional troll like Celdick was). Obviously there are many fans who do not view this blog and Cblog partaking is not a prereq for fanhood.

However, I think what many folks are riled about are the "pink hats". Those people who were not around in '06-'07 and who (like many Fakers fans do) come to the game to be seen and the "show".

An analogy I'll make is to a Red Sox fan who was interviewed after an Angels game this past week on Toucher and Rich on 98.5. Here are the questions and the answers.

Q. What is your favorite part of the game?
A. The sausages. (She was sure of  this answer)

Q. What is the shape of the infield?
A. An octagon? (wasn't real sure on this one)

Q. Name a player in the Hall of Fame.
A. Big Papi

Q. What position does Josh Beckett play?
A. Uhhh...1st base?

(this last one will blow you away)

Q. Who did they play tonite at the game you just attended?
A. Don't know.

Q. The team was from LA does that help?
A. Uhh...the LAKERS!!!

This person is a patron, not a fan. Most of those folks who arrived late last night to the Cs game were most likely patrons not fans. Being one does not necessarily make you the other. Many who follow this team, be they one year followers or 50 year followers, are fans because they truly care about the success of the team. The "pink hats" don't and are there (aside from the reasons listed above)because they can afford it. This in turn causes resentment from folks who are fans but can't be there, be it for financial reasons or personal circumstances. That pretty much summarizes the sentiment shared by Sox fans that morning and, I feel, is pretty analogous to our situation.

Again..."pink hats" ....is that necessary.

The game started earlier than usual. Traffic last night was abysmal. 40,000 people were trying to get to Fenway at the same time that 18,000 were trying to get to the Garden while 1,000,000 more people were trying to get out of the city during the Friday before Mother's Day weekend.

People work late. People got stuck in traffic. People had other things going on. Etc.

Painting those that were late last night as "pink hats" is using a pretty wide brush given the circumstances.

Am I disappointed in the way the crowd has been acting this year? Hell, yeah. Went to a bunch of games and the crowds weren't great. But do we have to start labeling and calling people names over it?

[Donoghus]

Sure, there are patrons and not fans there.  That's always been a part of the fan experience. It's a bit irritating but its something that people need to expect.  When times are good, there are ALWAYS going to be people there for the "scene".  To me, at least, its "So what?".  It doesn't change the way I experience a game or cheer on the Cetlics.  Keeping your mind on it is just gonna peeve you off and get you nowhere.

The issue I'm having are the people who are legitimately questioning others' fanhood.  And I really get the sense its because "they're not being a fan like me" mentality.  As D.L. put it last night, that's pretty lame.  Questioning others fanhood just makes you look bad, IMO.  When you go about doing it, you're coming across as condescending to others and acting as if you're stuff don't stink.  

People cheer and act different ways.  Just because they're not screaming at the top of their lungs or standing all game or getting dolled up in warpaint, doesn't mean they're not a fan.   Just because they're not on Celticsblog or dressed to the gills with Celtics gear, doesn't make them a Celtics fan.  My dad's 60.  He's at a bunch of the games.  He might wear a C'st-shirt or hat on occassion but he's not a vocal guy in the stands.  He'll stand when everyone is up but doesn't necessarily enjoying standing that much.  He's well aware of what's going on and knows his basketball.  Because his actions are different from what many of the "holier than thou" fans think make him any less of a fan?  Not at all, IMO.

When you find yourself thinking that you're a true fan and telling others how to be a fan, that's just consdesending and dumb, IMO.  

[Vermont Green]

I believe that implicit in just even viewing Celticsblog, let alone joining or posting as often as so many of you do (I used to visit as a nonmember all the time till I finally decided to join and only post occasionally) makes you a fan. So I completely agree that anyone who calls anyone on this board out questioning their fanhood is off base (except for the occasional troll like Celdick was). Obviously there are many fans who do not view this blog and Cblog partaking is not a prereq for fanhood.

However, I think what many folks are riled about are the "pink hats". Those people who were not around in '06-'07 and who (like many Fakers fans do) come to the game to be seen and the "show".

An analogy I'll make is to a Red Sox fan who was interviewed after an Angels game this past week on Toucher and Rich on 98.5. Here are the questions and the answers.

Q. What is your favorite part of the game?
A. The sausages. (She was sure of  this answer)

Q. What is the shape of the infield?
A. An octagon? (wasn't real sure on this one)

Q. Name a player in the Hall of Fame.
A. Big Papi

Q. What position does Josh Beckett play?
A. Uhhh...1st base?

(this last one will blow you away)

Q. Who did they play tonite at the game you just attended?
A. Don't know.

Q. The team was from LA does that help?
A. Uhh...the LAKERS!!!

This person is a patron, not a fan. Most of those folks who arrived late last night to the Cs game were most likely patrons not fans. Being one does not necessarily make you the other. Many who follow this team, be they one year followers or 50 year followers, are fans because they truly care about the success of the team. The "pink hats" don't and are there (aside from the reasons listed above)because they can afford it. This in turn causes resentment from folks who are fans but can't be there, be it for financial reasons or personal circumstances. That pretty much summarizes the sentiment shared by Sox fans that morning and, I feel, is pretty analogous to our situation.

I think the points made here are very good.  The nature of marketing sports now involves both fans and patrons (hopefully that will not be viewed as patronizing to the patrons).  I consider myself a fan and the patrons, even the ones in the pink hats who don't know what team we played, don't bother me in the least.  I just like to watch basketball and then come here to overanalyze everything.

[csfansince60s]

I believe that implicit in just even viewing Celticsblog, let alone joining or posting as often as so many of you do (I used to visit as a nonmember all the time till I finally decided to join and only post occasionally) makes you a fan. So I completely agree that anyone who calls anyone on this board out questioning their fanhood is off base (except for the occasional troll like Celdick was). Obviously there are many fans who do not view this blog and Cblog partaking is not a prereq for fanhood.

However, I think what many folks are riled about are the "pink hats". Those people who were not around in '06-'07 and who (like many Fakers fans do) come to the game to be seen and the "show".

An analogy I'll make is to a Red Sox fan who was interviewed after an Angels game this past week on Toucher and Rich on 98.5. Here are the questions and the answers.

Q. What is your favorite part of the game?
A. The sausages. (She was sure of  this answer)

Q. What is the shape of the infield?
A. An octagon? (wasn't real sure on this one)

Q. Name a player in the Hall of Fame.
A. Big Papi

Q. What position does Josh Beckett play?
A. Uhhh...1st base?

(this last one will blow you away)

Q. Who did they play tonite at the game you just attended?
A. Don't know.

Q. The team was from LA does that help?
A. Uhh...the LAKERS!!!

This person is a patron, not a fan. Most of those folks who arrived late last night to the Cs game were most likely patrons not fans. Being one does not necessarily make you the other. Many who follow this team, be they one year followers or 50 year followers, are fans because they truly care about the success of the team. The "pink hats" don't and are there (aside from the reasons listed above)because they can afford it. This in turn causes resentment from folks who are fans but can't be there, be it for financial reasons or personal circumstances. That pretty much summarizes the sentiment shared by Sox fans that morning and, I feel, is pretty analogous to our situation.

I think the points made here are very good.  The nature of marketing sports now involves both fans and patrons (hopefully that will not be viewed as patronizing to the patrons).  I consider myself a fan and the patrons, even the ones in the pink hats who don't know what team we played, don't bother me in the least.  I just like to watch basketball and then come here to overanalyze everything.

VG, tp for the "patronizing the patrons" ......tres clever...made me laugh

[openairmovie]

Sure, there are patrons and not fans there.  That's always been a part of the fan experience. It's a bit irritating but its something that people need to expect.  When times are good, there are ALWAYS going to be people there for the "scene".  To me, at least, its "So what?".  It doesn't change the way I experience a game or cheer on the Cetlics.  Keeping your mind on it is just gonna peeve you off and get you nowhere.

The issue I'm having are the people who are legitimately questioning others' fanhood.  And I really get the sense its because "they're not being a fan like me" mentality.  As D.L. put it last night, that's pretty lame.  Questioning others fanhood just makes you look bad, IMO.  When you go about doing it, you're coming across as condescending to others and acting as if you're stuff don't stink.  

People cheer and act different ways.  Just because they're not screaming at the top of their lungs or standing all game or getting dolled up in warpaint, doesn't mean they're not a fan.   Just because they're not on Celticsblog or dressed to the gills with Celtics gear, doesn't make them a Celtics fan.  My dad's 60.  He's at a bunch of the games.  He might wear a C'st-shirt or hat on occassion but he's not a vocal guy in the stands.  He'll stand when everyone is up but doesn't necessarily enjoying standing that much.  He's well aware of what's going on and knows his basketball.  Because his actions are different from what many of the "holier than thou" fans think make him any less of a fan?  Not at all, IMO.

When you find yourself thinking that you're a true fan and telling others how to be a fan, that's just consdesending and dumb, IMO.  

If someone was on here slamming people because they dont stand up and clap after every basket or big play...they dont jump out of their seat for ah uge  dunk    or things of that nature then yes, that is wrong. But I myself called out the fans that  arrive late,  dont care about the game and show up for "the show" as someone put it on this post...its a joke dude, a real joke.  And yes it does effect how I see the game, because after opening tip off I am standing 25 times to let people into their seats,  and then I have to let them out 25 more times to go get their beers, their food,   to take a dump, to go walk around in the commen area,  to twiddle their thumbs in the silent auction area      whatever it is...these fans dont come to see the game, they come to do everything else,  and the game is just an added bonus to them.  In contrast  watch the Bruins on Monday night,  I promise you those seats will be filled from 19:59  to 0:01

[Bahku]

Due to my rather bizarre on-call schedule of late, I was once again doing my "wee-hours" prowl on here through the night and very early this morning, and there were a couple of such posts, (and a new thread ... no need to elaborate further), that demonstrated exactly the kind of stuff you talk about here, Nick, and it was disturbing. It wasn't the substance that bothered me so much, (as some of it rang true), but the intent, and the way it was presented.

We have to stick together here, folks, and support our team in unison, not find more ways to segregate what we all feel a fan should or shouldn't be like, and what behaviors are acceptable or not. The Celtics need us more than ever right now, and criticizing one another because we don't fit into one-anothers parameters of what defines "fandom" for us, is an absolute travesty, and complete waste of time.

All day at work today, I was discussing this with my ER coworkers and refining what I was going to say about it in a new thread I was going to post ... luckily Nick, who thinks very much like I do, (and please don't take that as an insult, Nick), despite some of our "heated" discussions of the past, had already picked up on the same stuff and started this thread in the process.

This is another one of the "Miracles of CelticsBlog" (as I like to call such anomolies) ... sometimes we're so in tune to the same vibes here, that all you have to do is just think about things, and within a short period of time, they magically appear! Discussion, even if heated, is a great thing, and what a blog is all about ... without it, we'd never get much done or do much to improve our world.

But we need to stop focusing on the elements that divide us, categorize us, and keep us apart, and stick to the one binding thread that unites us and has brought every single one of us to the great place called CelticsBlog: Our undying love for this great team of ours. Thanks a ton, Nick, for picking up on my subliminal message ... you saved me a ton of typing! I can now put my feet up, enjoy my Dunkin' Donuts Iced Coffee, prepare for an evening of basketball, and give my two index fingers a rest.

Great post, Bud ... TP to say the least!

[housecall]

Sure, there are patrons and not fans there.  That's always been a part of the fan experience. It's a bit irritating but its something that people need to expect.  When times are good, there are ALWAYS going to be people there for the "scene".  To me, at least, its "So what?".  It doesn't change the way I experience a game or cheer on the Cetlics.  Keeping your mind on it is just gonna peeve you off and get you nowhere.

The issue I'm having are the people who are legitimately questioning others' fanhood.  And I really get the sense its because "they're not being a fan like me" mentality.  As D.L. put it last night, that's pretty lame.  Questioning others fanhood just makes you look bad, IMO.  When you go about doing it, you're coming across as condescending to others and acting as if you're stuff don't stink.  

People cheer and act different ways.  Just because they're not screaming at the top of their lungs or standing all game or getting dolled up in warpaint, doesn't mean they're not a fan.   Just because they're not on Celticsblog or dressed to the gills with Celtics gear, doesn't make them a Celtics fan.  My dad's 60.  He's at a bunch of the games.  He might wear a C'st-shirt or hat on occassion but he's not a vocal guy in the stands.  He'll stand when everyone is up but doesn't necessarily enjoying standing that much.  He's well aware of what's going on and knows his basketball.  Because his actions are different from what many of the "holier than thou" fans think make him any less of a fan?  Not at all, IMO.

When you find yourself thinking that you're a true fan and telling others how to be a fan, that's just consdesending and dumb, IMO.  

Very well said...i was thinking alone those same lines.tp

[Edgar]

U cant blame fans for not having knowledge on the team dont say deep knowledge.

I like the patriots and will root for them but right now i dont know who will be their quaterbak
I consider myself a die hard dodgers fan and i dont know 2 starting pichers.
I love the team
If they win is ok for me if they lose i am sad
I love the game , not the player.
I can enjoy a game of my team without knowing whos there, just appreciating the level of play.
Maybe people there had 10 years of not attending a celtics game is logic to empatize with their frustration, i am sure theyre all good fans
I dont have to answer a stupid question to prove i am a fan maybe from before some people born.

[openairmovie]

out of curiousity ....id like a polling system  installed at the garden   to see how many people actually know who that old guy is smoking a cigar in one of the intro videos...my guess is about 40-45%  the most

[csfansince60s]

Sure, there are patrons and not fans there.  That's always been a part of the fan experience. It's a bit irritating but its something that people need to expect.  When times are good, there are ALWAYS going to be people there for the "scene".  To me, at least, its "So what?".  It doesn't change the way I experience a game or cheer on the Cetlics.  Keeping your mind on it is just gonna peeve you off and get you nowhere.

The issue I'm having are the people who are legitimately questioning others' fanhood.  And I really get the sense its because "they're not being a fan like me" mentality.  As D.L. put it last night, that's pretty lame.  Questioning others fanhood just makes you look bad, IMO.  When you go about doing it, you're coming across as condescending to others and acting as if you're stuff don't stink.  

People cheer and act different ways.  Just because they're not screaming at the top of their lungs or standing all game or getting dolled up in warpaint, doesn't mean they're not a fan.   Just because they're not on Celticsblog or dressed to the gills with Celtics gear, doesn't make them a Celtics fan.  My dad's 60.  He's at a bunch of the games.  He might wear a C'st-shirt or hat on occassion but he's not a vocal guy in the stands.  He'll stand when everyone is up but doesn't necessarily enjoying standing that much.  He's well aware of what's going on and knows his basketball.  Because his actions are different from what many of the "holier than thou" fans think make him any less of a fan?  Not at all, IMO.

When you find yourself thinking that you're a true fan and telling others how to be a fan, that's just consdesending and dumb, IMO.  

If someone was on here slamming people because they dont stand up and clap after every basket or big play...they dont jump out of their seat for ah uge  dunk    or things of that nature then yes, that is wrong. But I myself called out the fans that  arrive late,  dont care about the game and show up for "the show" as someone put it on this post...its a joke dude, a real joke.  And yes it does effect how I see the game, because after opening tip off I am standing 25 times to let people into their seats,  and then I have to let them out 25 more times to go get their beers, their food,   to take a dump, to go walk around in the commen area,  to twiddle their thumbs in the silent auction area      whatever it is...these fans dont come to see the game, they come to do everything else,  and the game is just an added bonus to them.  In contrast  watch the Bruins on Monday night,  I promise you those seats will be filled from 19:59  to 0:01

Completely agree. From dictionary.com: Fan Part of Speech: noun Definition: person enthusiastic about an interest
patron:a person who is a customer, client, or paying guest


No one is trying to tell anybody who is a fan and who isn't. Just read the definitions and you'll know........

[Kiorrik]

I agree and disagree to this thread

The thing is, I think people *at a game* could help the team out, like the Thunder crowd does for example. The booing doesn't help, the cheering does - that's why there's this thing called "home court advantage". Hence, I think our crowd is rather rubbish lately.

That said, on this board it's different. I don't mind us dissecting all the games to find every single flaw. I just wish we had a solid home crowd

[EJPLAYA]

Amen to the OP. I am sick and tired of the fans being blamed for the Celtics poor play this year.

We are the CUSTOMERS! They are getting filthy rich off of us. Is it really that hard to demand they play hard for the 2870 minutes that they are out on that floor in the regular season?! The Big 3 made about 6-7k per MINUTE that they played in the regular season. The nerve of them expecting us not to boo when they come out there and lay down...