Ainge: Price for Harden Too High

[GreenWarrior]

I really didn't like that response by danny considering that's been the rumor with every supposed deal.

I think his response should've been we weren't getting enough in return.

[Scottiej23]

I really didn't like that response by danny considering that's been the rumor with every supposed deal.

I think his response should've been we weren't getting enough in return.

Little bit hard to do that if we're the one making the offer.  Houston were selling, they set the price.

[liam]

I'm glad Danny held off. Who knows where Harden will be in 2 years.

by the looks of it

"weight watchers "

Nice!

[BringToughnessBack]

I'm glad Danny held off. Who knows where Harden will be in 2 years.

First in line at the buffet and most definitely, first row of the VIP section at Foxy’s Gentleman’s Club in Brooklyn.

[flybono]

The “no b@lls GM” has been saying this for 11 years!

Lol What’s the word oh I remember, purgatory

[GreenEnvy]

Ainge did his due diligence by inquiring, but if Houston truly wanted Brown and Smart, plus a boatload of picks.... Ainge is 100% right that the price was too high. Anyone who thinks Lavert and Oladipo are an equal package to Brown and Smart is crazy. Either they clearly wanted way more from Boston, or they panicked after Harden’s presser and just took whatever the best offer still out there was.

[SparzWizard]

Ainge did his due diligence by inquiring, but if Houston truly wanted Brown and Smart, plus a boatload of picks.... Ainge is 100% right that the price was too high. Anyone who thinks Lavert and Oladipo are an equal package to Brown and Smart is crazy. Either they clearly wanted way more from Boston, or they panicked after Harden’s presser and just took whatever the best offer still out there was.

Everybody try'na highway rob Danny Ainge, but Danny Ainge ain't let that happen!

[Moranis]

Ainge did his due diligence by inquiring, but if Houston truly wanted Brown and Smart, plus a boatload of picks.... Ainge is 100% right that the price was too high. Anyone who thinks Lavert and Oladipo are an equal package to Brown and Smart is crazy. Either they clearly wanted way more from Boston, or they panicked after Harden’s presser and just took whatever the best offer still out there was.

They got 4 unprotected picks and 4 unprotected pick swaps.  Plenty of reasons to believe that is a better long term package than Brown and Smart and a couple of almost certainly mid to late 20's draft picks.  Now sure if they asked for 4 1sts and 4 swaps and then Brown and Smart that is a bit different, but that hasn't been reported anywhere.

[nickagneta]

They got 4 unprotected picks and 4 unprotected pick swaps.  Plenty of reasons to believe that is a better long term package than Brown and Smart and a couple of almost certainly mid to late 20's draft picks. 

Not sure I buy that. Brown alone might be better than almost all those picks. He is playing at an All-NBA and All-Defense level at the moment and could be at that level for many years to come. At minimum, he certainly will be an All-Star level perenially.

He would have been easily the best player moved in these mega-trades that occurred this season in exchange for the mega-star. Much like Simmons and Philly, there would have been zero need to include a boatload of picks because of the quality of the player going back to Houston.

But they wanted more than Brown. They wanted an All-Defense 1st team defender too.

Now maybe Houston preferred restocking their draft capital over adding, compete now players like Simmons, Brown and Smart. Or maybe Morey and Ainge thought the price to high for Harden given he could jet after the 2021-22 season and pulled out.

But either way, I think it safe that at least two NBA GMs felt their extremely young star player(s) were as valuable or more valuable than those picks.

[td450]

Ainge did his due diligence by inquiring, but if Houston truly wanted Brown and Smart, plus a boatload of picks.... Ainge is 100% right that the price was too high. Anyone who thinks Lavert and Oladipo are an equal package to Brown and Smart is crazy. Either they clearly wanted way more from Boston, or they panicked after Harden’s presser and just took whatever the best offer still out there was.

They got 4 unprotected picks and 4 unprotected pick swaps.  Plenty of reasons to believe that is a better long term package than Brown and Smart and a couple of almost certainly mid to late 20's draft picks.  Now sure if they asked for 4 1sts and 4 swaps and then Brown and Smart that is a bit different, but that hasn't been reported anywhere.

That is a weird valuation for picks. OKC or NO could offer us 5-6 #1 picks and they could not get Brown in return. I doubt Ainge ever offered Brown for Harden, even straight up. As we saw with some of the picks we had that we thought might bring us a top 3 or top 5 level choice, it usually doesn't work out, and plenty of drafts don't yield a Brown level player at #1. Anyone want Wiggins for Brown? Anthony Edwards?

Houston would have been far better off with Brown or Simmons. If they had a shot at either and decided on a pile of picks, well, they continue to display the bad decision making that got them where they are now

[Moranis]

Ainge did his due diligence by inquiring, but if Houston truly wanted Brown and Smart, plus a boatload of picks.... Ainge is 100% right that the price was too high. Anyone who thinks Lavert and Oladipo are an equal package to Brown and Smart is crazy. Either they clearly wanted way more from Boston, or they panicked after Harden’s presser and just took whatever the best offer still out there was.

They got 4 unprotected picks and 4 unprotected pick swaps.  Plenty of reasons to believe that is a better long term package than Brown and Smart and a couple of almost certainly mid to late 20's draft picks.  Now sure if they asked for 4 1sts and 4 swaps and then Brown and Smart that is a bit different, but that hasn't been reported anywhere.

That is a weird valuation for picks. OKC or NO could offer us 5-6 #1 picks and they could not get Brown in return. I doubt Ainge ever offered Brown for Harden, even straight up. As we saw with some of the picks we had that we thought might bring us a top 3 or top 5 level choice, it usually doesn't work out, and plenty of drafts don't yield a Brown level player at #1. Anyone want Wiggins for Brown? Anthony Edwards?

Houston would have been far better off with Brown or Simmons. If they had a shot at either and decided on a pile of picks, well, they continue to display the bad decision making that got them where they are now

Any unprotected pick more than like 5 years in the future has great value and they got several of those.  We saw it ourselves with our Nets trade how valuable those picks can be and we didn't even have that many or as far into the future.  I mean we actually got a 3, 3, and 8 out of it (those were 4, 5, and 6 years into the future).

Brown is a great player, but he isn't a franchise anchoring player and never will be.  He isn't going to carry a team to the playoffs by himself.  He isn't going to make Houston a great team.  He has far more value as a #2 or #3 type guy, he isn't a #1 and Houston doesn't have a #1 without Harden and has no real shot at getting a #1 either.  That is why they need those draft picks, especially since they traded a bunch of their own picks already.  They need multiple chances of landing a #1 guy and the only way that was going to happen was them taking a shot that 5 years into the future Brooklyn just isn't very good (if not earlier). 

Lowe broke a lot of this down.  https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30706567/answering-massive-questions-driving-james-harden-trade

Here is what he said about all those picks vs. Simmons (who is better than the Brown)

That draft equity is a strong return for the Rockets. Is it stronger than Ben Simmons by himself? To be clear, I don't know precisely what the Rockets and Philadelphia 76ers discussed, what the Sixers offered, or whether they even made an ironclad offer in the end. Reconstructing trade talks in the moment is maddening. Maybe one team, or both, got too cute haggling over whatever young players and/or draft picks Philadelphia might attach to Simmons. I feel confident saying this: The Rockets could have had Ben Simmons if they wanted him. They apparently decided they preferred the mother lode of picks from Brooklyn. Maybe they got greedy in negotiations with Philly.

Time will tell if they were right. Simmons is a great player coming off an All-NBA and All-Defensive season. He is 24, and he provides an identity upon walking in the door: Run like hell and put shooters around him.

Building a good version of such a team would have taken Houston years. And even if you construct one, it's unclear if Simmons can ascend into being the best player on a title team. I'm dubious, though the designation is more fluid than people would like. Few conceived of Jimmy Butler as being in that circle, but the Miami Heat came within two wins of a title despite multiple injuries in the NBA Finals.

The Rockets decided they'd rather (basically) start over. You need picks to do that, and the Rockets had flung away two -- plus two swaps -- in the disastrous Chris Paul-for-Russell Westbrook deal. They get more back here. They are shorting the Nets' future, wagering on a train wreck. Can you blame them given the train's current status?

Of course, trading Simmons down the line could have brought Houston some picks -- though likely not this same bounty. And even with this trade return, the Rockets still can't compete with the Oklahoma City Thunder and the New Orleans Pelicans -- fat with picks -- for the next disgruntled superstar (should either of those teams decide to get in on that fun).

Either way, Houston has come out well here.

[RJ87]

Any unprotected pick more than like 5 years in the future has great value and they got several of those.  We saw it ourselves with our Nets trade how valuable those picks can be and we didn't even have that many or as far into the future.  I mean we actually got a 3, 3, and 8 out of it (those were 4, 5, and 6 years into the future).

We actually got 3, 1, and 8

I don't mind the Rockets deal, they're going to control the Nets' picks for the next 7 years. They're going to get some solid picks out of it down the line.

[jambr380]

Ainge did his due diligence by inquiring, but if Houston truly wanted Brown and Smart, plus a boatload of picks.... Ainge is 100% right that the price was too high. Anyone who thinks Lavert and Oladipo are an equal package to Brown and Smart is crazy. Either they clearly wanted way more from Boston, or they panicked after Harden’s presser and just took whatever the best offer still out there was.

They got 4 unprotected picks and 4 unprotected pick swaps.  Plenty of reasons to believe that is a better long term package than Brown and Smart and a couple of almost certainly mid to late 20's draft picks.  Now sure if they asked for 4 1sts and 4 swaps and then Brown and Smart that is a bit different, but that hasn't been reported anywhere.

That is a weird valuation for picks. OKC or NO could offer us 5-6 #1 picks and they could not get Brown in return. I doubt Ainge ever offered Brown for Harden, even straight up. As we saw with some of the picks we had that we thought might bring us a top 3 or top 5 level choice, it usually doesn't work out, and plenty of drafts don't yield a Brown level player at #1. Anyone want Wiggins for Brown? Anthony Edwards?

Houston would have been far better off with Brown or Simmons. If they had a shot at either and decided on a pile of picks, well, they continue to display the bad decision making that got them where they are now

I know Moranis makes a strong case above, but I agree with this take. Simmons and Brown are almost 100% better than any of the picks HOU is likely to get from BKN and they still have at least a decade left of their prime. Obviously things worked out well for the Cs in their original deal with BKN, but that is not normal.

Much more likely when a team starts to falter - and there is no guarantee BKN will - is what we got with the SAC and MEM picks. Seems they would have been better off landing young all-stars in Simmons or Brown and then taking their chances in FA. HOU is an underrated desirable FA destination, especially with all the super-top choices taken up for the time being. You don't want to have a roster like NYK trying to attract top talent; having a player like Simmons or Brown would be a much bigger draw.

[RJ87]

Ainge did his due diligence by inquiring, but if Houston truly wanted Brown and Smart, plus a boatload of picks.... Ainge is 100% right that the price was too high. Anyone who thinks Lavert and Oladipo are an equal package to Brown and Smart is crazy. Either they clearly wanted way more from Boston, or they panicked after Harden’s presser and just took whatever the best offer still out there was.

They got 4 unprotected picks and 4 unprotected pick swaps.  Plenty of reasons to believe that is a better long term package than Brown and Smart and a couple of almost certainly mid to late 20's draft picks.  Now sure if they asked for 4 1sts and 4 swaps and then Brown and Smart that is a bit different, but that hasn't been reported anywhere.

That is a weird valuation for picks. OKC or NO could offer us 5-6 #1 picks and they could not get Brown in return. I doubt Ainge ever offered Brown for Harden, even straight up. As we saw with some of the picks we had that we thought might bring us a top 3 or top 5 level choice, it usually doesn't work out, and plenty of drafts don't yield a Brown level player at #1. Anyone want Wiggins for Brown? Anthony Edwards?

Houston would have been far better off with Brown or Simmons. If they had a shot at either and decided on a pile of picks, well, they continue to display the bad decision making that got them where they are now

I know Moranis makes a strong case above, but I agree with this take. Simmons and Brown are almost 100% better than any of the picks HOU is likely to get from BKN and they still have at least a decade left of their prime. Obviously things worked out well for the Cs in their original deal with BKN, but that is not normal.

Much more likely when a team starts to falter - and there is no guarantee BKN will - is what we got with the SAC and MEM picks. Seems they would have been better off landing young all-stars in Simmons or Brown and then taking their chances in FA. HOU is an underrated desirable FA destination, especially with all the super-top choices taken up for the time being. You don't want to have a roster like NYK trying to attract top talent; having a player like Simmons or Brown would be a much bigger draw.

I understand this take. A known commodity is better than an unknown commodity to some extent. But taking Simmons or Brown puts them on an unofficial clock. Houston would have to put a suitable team around those guys before their own free agencies in 4 and 5 years respectively, likely sooner with players able to request trades a year or 2 before their contracts expire. If they had a bare bones roster, that might have been easier, but they have Eric Gordon and John Wall taking up a huge chunk of cap space over the next few seasons.

[BringToughnessBack]

So it sounds like Brown was completely off limits to the Rockets. Danny was not born yesterday and he protected us from making  a huge mistake.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nba-rumors-rockets-sought-celtics-164013261.html

The Rockets will reap the rewards of that trade a few years now. Even in 5 years, Durant and Harden will be 36 and 37 years of age. Swaps and unprotected picks could pay huge dividends unless the Nets replenish those stars with others(could happen). Kyrie, who knows if he is playing in 5 years despite being a few years younger. So much could go wrong with that team and they would be stuck without picks and 3 stars locked up, unless they all decide to bolt somewhere else- Nothing would shock me.

Now, if Kyrie gets on board and stops acting out, Harden gels with Durant better then first go around, and they win multiple titles. Nets would look like geniuses. I am betting on implosion. Time will tell.

One person I am sure who is not happy right now might be Giannis. Where is his "super 3"?