Ainge: Price for Harden Too High

[Jvalin]

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

And sometimes, the best trades are the ones you do make, if you want to win. 

They've seem to be doing alright so far.

With all due respect, it's not like we are a team like the Hornets that would be happy with ''doing alright''. I bet the Hornets would have been ecstatic if they had made the ECF. The C's have won a record 17 NBA championships. ''Alright'' ain't good enough.

Again, I'm not advocating that we should have bet the farm on Harden. My point is that we lost a terrific opportunity to land our Center of the future in Jarrett Allen. We also lost an even better opportunity last summer when we could have signed Christian Wood. Talented big men don't exactly grow on trees. Danny had no backup plan in case Hayward wanted to walk. Don't think he should be beyond criticism. He has done a terrific job, but he's made mistakes as well.

They were in the ECF last season and currently have the best winning percentage in the East without the benefit of Kemba. 

The sky is falling crap because they haven't made a splash is amusing.  Plus the trade deadline is still two months away.

When did I say that the sky is falling? All I said is that we lost a terrific opportunity yesterday and an even better one last summer. We both know that we are way too early into the season. It's a strange season due to the covid protocols (among many other reasons). Being first after 10 games ain't a big deal (especially this season). The Bucks had the best record in the NBA the last couple of seasons, yet they couldn't even reach the Finals. Do you believe the C's are legit contenders? That's all that matters. Imo, they aren't. As things stand right now, we're probably the 4th best team in the East. Feel free to believe that we are #1, cause we have the best record after 10 games.

Sure, the deadline is 2 months away. Can you name a better potential target at the C position than Jarrett Allen?

[PhoSita]

I'd rather have Brown and Smart.

[RJ87]

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

And sometimes, the best trades are the ones you do make, if you want to win. 

They've seem to be doing alright so far.

With all due respect, it's not like we are a team like the Hornets that would be happy with ''doing alright''. I bet the Hornets would have been ecstatic if they had made the ECF. The C's have won a record 17 NBA championships. ''Alright'' ain't good enough.

Again, I'm not advocating that we should have bet the farm on Harden. My point is that we lost a terrific opportunity to land our Center of the future in Jarrett Allen. We also lost an even better opportunity last summer when we could have signed Christian Wood. Talented big men don't exactly grow on trees. Danny had no backup plan in case Hayward wanted to walk. Don't think he should be beyond criticism. He has done a terrific job, but he's made mistakes as well.

They were in the ECF last season and currently have the best winning percentage in the East without the benefit of Kemba. 

The sky is falling crap because they haven't made a splash is amusing.  Plus the trade deadline is still two months away.

When did I say that the sky is falling? All I said is that we lost a terrific opportunity yesterday and an even better one last summer. We both know that we are way too early into the season. It's a strange season due to the covid protocols (among many other reasons). Being first after 10 games ain't a big deal (especially this season). The Bucks had the best record in the NBA the last couple of seasons, yet they couldn't even reach the Finals. Do you believe the C's are legit contenders? That's all that matters. Imo, they aren't. As things stand right now, we're probably the 4th best team in the East. Feel free to believe that we are #1, cause we have the best record after 10 games.

Sure, the deadline is 2 months away. Can you name a better potential target at the C position than Jarrett Allen?

We're not targeting a center. That's clearly not an area Danny wants to invest a lot of money or assets in unless it's a superstar level talent. We're going to go with Theis/Thompson/Timelord trio, and frankly, I don't think Allen is head and shoulders above any of those guys.

The needs of this team are a wing and a scorer off the bench.

[Donoghus]

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

And sometimes, the best trades are the ones you do make, if you want to win. 

They've seem to be doing alright so far.

With all due respect, it's not like we are a team like the Hornets that would be happy with ''doing alright''. I bet the Hornets would have been ecstatic if they had made the ECF. The C's have won a record 17 NBA championships. ''Alright'' ain't good enough.

Again, I'm not advocating that we should have bet the farm on Harden. My point is that we lost a terrific opportunity to land our Center of the future in Jarrett Allen. We also lost an even better opportunity last summer when we could have signed Christian Wood. Talented big men don't exactly grow on trees. Danny had no backup plan in case Hayward wanted to walk. Don't think he should be beyond criticism. He has done a terrific job, but he's made mistakes as well.

They were in the ECF last season and currently have the best winning percentage in the East without the benefit of Kemba. 

The sky is falling crap because they haven't made a splash is amusing.  Plus the trade deadline is still two months away.

When did I say that the sky is falling? All I said is that we lost a terrific opportunity yesterday and an even better one last summer. We both know that we are way too early into the season. It's a strange season due to the covid protocols (among many other reasons). Being first after 10 games ain't a big deal (especially this season). The Bucks had the best record in the NBA the last couple of seasons, yet they couldn't even reach the Finals. Do you believe the C's are legit contenders? That's all that matters. Imo, they aren't. As things stand right now, we're probably the 4th best team in the East. Feel free to believe that we are #1, cause we have the best record after 10 games.

Sure, the deadline is 2 months away. Can you name a better potential target at the C position than Jarrett Allen?

The Celtics don't need to be targeting a 5 right now.

And, yes if Kemba's back and relatively healthy, this team is a legit contender to come out of the East. 

[mmmmm]

According to Brian Robb of the Boston Sports Journal, the Rockets were asking for Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart and draft compensation.

Of course this is what Houston asked for.  Many of us speculated exactly this.  Danny offered back Kemba and predictably Houston said no.

I don't think that is a terribly unreasonable ask by Houston but given where this team is right now, it amounts to a reset.  I am glad that trade was not made.

How do we know what Danny offered, if anything?

Just because they were 'engaged in talks', it's very possible that was just Houston making offers and Danny could have been listening and then saying, " ... nah".

I am just speculating.  Isn't that the idea of this forum?  Of course I don't know and Ainge isn't going to say "yeah, we offered back Kemba and they said no".  It is just my opinion which is often wrong.

I did speculate "on the record" that my opinion was that Houston would want Brown and Smart.  To me, Ainge saying they had "conversations" implies more than just listening and saying no.  But who knows.  This wouldn't be much of a forum if people only posted sourced facts.

Sure.  But you stated it as an assertion, not an opinion.  It may seem like quibbling, and I truly do not mean to sound like I'm jumping all over you on this, but there is a world of difference between saying, "Danny offered Kemba" and "I'm wondering if Danny offered Kemba".   

I guess I'm also having in mind that the context (Kemba having recently been signed, currently injured, people's emotions over the Isaiah trade, etc.) would make such a thing a very hot trigger.

[Jvalin]

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

And sometimes, the best trades are the ones you do make, if you want to win. 

They've seem to be doing alright so far.

With all due respect, it's not like we are a team like the Hornets that would be happy with ''doing alright''. I bet the Hornets would have been ecstatic if they had made the ECF. The C's have won a record 17 NBA championships. ''Alright'' ain't good enough.

Again, I'm not advocating that we should have bet the farm on Harden. My point is that we lost a terrific opportunity to land our Center of the future in Jarrett Allen. We also lost an even better opportunity last summer when we could have signed Christian Wood. Talented big men don't exactly grow on trees.

So ... maybe the Celtics view Robert Williams as their 'center of the future'?

Danny had no backup plan in case Hayward wanted to walk. Don't think he should be beyond criticism. He has done a terrific job, but he's made mistakes as well.

He clearly DID have a backup plan, and it is still in play.  He has a large TPE with Hayward's salary slot that he can utilize to add someone. 

I also suspect that they would rather use it to try to fill talent at the 'big wing' position (the void that Hayward's leaving created), though, and not at some other position (the 5) where they already have three guys worthy of starting and deserving of more minutes than are available.

You don't need to have a plan to try and acquire a TPE for a player who's about to walk. That's just common logic. It ain't a backup plan.

You want a backup plan? The moment Hayward informed Danny he was planning to walk, Wood should have been our #1 target. Problem is, we should have planned ahead. Had we approached Wood from day 1 of free agency, I bet we could have signed him. When Danny finally secured the TPE, Wood was no longer available on the market.

@mmmmm, Roy
You guys suggest that Timelord may be our Center of the future. If you ask me, he ain't a good fit in our defensive system. The way our PnR defense works, Theis/Thompson meet the opposing ball handler at the level of dribble hand off and deny penetration. Timelord ain't got the lateral quicks to play D on the perimeter, hence he drops back and protects the rim. To put it another way, whenever Timelord is on the court, we have to change our defensive system. The C's are built around Tatum and Brown. They are both versatile defenders who can guard multiple positions. If we want to maximize their effectiveness, we gotta be starting a big man who can switch ball screens on the perimeter.

Is Jarrett Allen a good perimeter defender? Hard to tell, cause the Nets were using him in a drop scheme, just like we do with Timelord. Imo, he's a better perimeter defender than Timelord, but worse than Theis and Thompson.

[RJ87]

You don't need to have a plan to try and acquire a TPE for a player who's about to walk. That's just common logic. It ain't a backup plan.

You want a backup plan? The moment Hayward informed Danny he was planning to walk, Wood should have been our #1 target. Problem is, we should have planned ahead. Had we approached Wood from day 1 of free agency, I bet we could have signed him. When Danny finally secured the TPE, Wood was no longer available on the market.

You're making a ton of assumptions. First, did the Celtics even have interest in Christian Wood? Let's pretend they did. If they approached him the 1st day of free agency, the most we could've offered was the MLE. And at the point, it was still unclear whether it'd be the taxpayers MLE or non-tax MLE. We still didn't know what Gordon was going to do as we were still trying to resign him and Indiana was still in play. And we definitely didn't have the TPE at the point for a sign & trade. So clearly, not the best offer on the market for Wood at that point.

Second, you presume that Wood would've wanted to come here if we just asked? How do we know that? He signed in Houston knowing that James and Westbrook wanted out, so he'd be a featured player. Do we know he'd be comfortable being a 4th option after the Jays + Kemba? People just assume that guys are down to be a 4th or 5th option for a chance at a title, but that's not always the case. Gordon just proved that and so has Jerami Grant.

[mmmmm]

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

And sometimes, the best trades are the ones you do make, if you want to win. 

They've seem to be doing alright so far.

With all due respect, it's not like we are a team like the Hornets that would be happy with ''doing alright''. I bet the Hornets would have been ecstatic if they had made the ECF. The C's have won a record 17 NBA championships. ''Alright'' ain't good enough.

Again, I'm not advocating that we should have bet the farm on Harden. My point is that we lost a terrific opportunity to land our Center of the future in Jarrett Allen. We also lost an even better opportunity last summer when we could have signed Christian Wood. Talented big men don't exactly grow on trees.

So ... maybe the Celtics view Robert Williams as their 'center of the future'?

Danny had no backup plan in case Hayward wanted to walk. Don't think he should be beyond criticism. He has done a terrific job, but he's made mistakes as well.

He clearly DID have a backup plan, and it is still in play.  He has a large TPE with Hayward's salary slot that he can utilize to add someone. 

I also suspect that they would rather use it to try to fill talent at the 'big wing' position (the void that Hayward's leaving created), though, and not at some other position (the 5) where they already have three guys worthy of starting and deserving of more minutes than are available.

You don't need to have a plan to try and acquire a TPE for a player who's about to walk. That's just common logic. It ain't a backup plan.

You want a backup plan? The moment Hayward informed Danny he was planning to walk, Wood should have been our #1 target. Problem is, we should have planned ahead. Had we approached Wood from day 1 of free agency, I bet we could have signed him. When Danny finally secured the TPE, Wood was no longer available on the market.

That presumes that the Celtics wanted Wood.  Don't get me wrong, I like Wood.  But he's not necessarily what the Celtics may have in mind for replacing Hayward with.

[ETNCeltics]

I wouldn't trade Jaylen straight up for Harden, much less everything else the Rockets wanted.

[Jvalin]

You don't need to have a plan to try and acquire a TPE for a player who's about to walk. That's just common logic. It ain't a backup plan.

You want a backup plan? The moment Hayward informed Danny he was planning to walk, Wood should have been our #1 target. Problem is, we should have planned ahead. Had we approached Wood from day 1 of free agency, I bet we could have signed him. When Danny finally secured the TPE, Wood was no longer available on the market.

You're making a ton of assumptions. First, did the Celtics even have interest in Christian Wood? Let's pretend they did. If they approached him the 1st day of free agency, the most we could've offered was the MLE. And at the point, it was still unclear whether it'd be the taxpayers MLE or non-tax MLE. We still didn't know what Gordon was going to do as we were still trying to resign him and Indiana was still in play. And we definitely didn't have the TPE at the point for a sign & trade. So clearly, not the best offer on the market for Wood at that point.

Second, you presume that Wood would've wanted to come here if we just asked? How do we know that? He signed in Houston knowing that James and Westbrook wanted out, so he'd be a featured player. Do we know he'd be comfortable being a 4th option after the Jays + Kemba? People just assume that guys are down to be a 4th or 5th option for a chance at a title, but that's not always the case. Gordon just proved that and so has Jerami Grant.

Come on man, Danny knew that Hayward was about to walk. Why would the Hornets not agree to send us a TPE for a couple of second rounders? Worst case scenario, offer them whatever they want to secure the TPE and use it on Wood. We should have offered Wood 14+ million on day 1 of free agency. That's my point. You only do that if you have a back up plan.

Why would Wood sign with us instead of the Rockets? Cause we could have offered him more money using the TPE.

[liam]

I'd rather have Brown and Smart.

Me too.

[ozgod]

I'm glad Danny held off. Who knows where Harden will be in 2 years.

[RJ87]

You don't need to have a plan to try and acquire a TPE for a player who's about to walk. That's just common logic. It ain't a backup plan.

You want a backup plan? The moment Hayward informed Danny he was planning to walk, Wood should have been our #1 target. Problem is, we should have planned ahead. Had we approached Wood from day 1 of free agency, I bet we could have signed him. When Danny finally secured the TPE, Wood was no longer available on the market.

You're making a ton of assumptions. First, did the Celtics even have interest in Christian Wood? Let's pretend they did. If they approached him the 1st day of free agency, the most we could've offered was the MLE. And at the point, it was still unclear whether it'd be the taxpayers MLE or non-tax MLE. We still didn't know what Gordon was going to do as we were still trying to resign him and Indiana was still in play. And we definitely didn't have the TPE at the point for a sign & trade. So clearly, not the best offer on the market for Wood at that point.

Second, you presume that Wood would've wanted to come here if we just asked? How do we know that? He signed in Houston knowing that James and Westbrook wanted out, so he'd be a featured player. Do we know he'd be comfortable being a 4th option after the Jays + Kemba? People just assume that guys are down to be a 4th or 5th option for a chance at a title, but that's not always the case. Gordon just proved that and so has Jerami Grant.

Come on man, Danny knew that Hayward was about to walk. Why would the Hornets not agree to send us a TPE for a couple of second rounders? Worst case scenario, offer them whatever they want to secure the TPE and use it on Wood. We should have offered Wood 14+ million on day 1 of free agency. That's my point. You only do that if you have a back up plan.

Why would Wood sign with us instead of the Rockets? Cause we could have offered him more money using the TPE.

Again, you're jumping to conclusions. If Hayward chose Indy and we ended up doing a sign & trade, we'd have no TPE to sign Wood with. Even if Danny felt Hayward was out from the jump, we didn't know what he was going to do. No one had Charlotte in the mix.

And I said earlier, Danny doesn't seem interested in paying big money to a center that's not a star and is fine moving forward the MLE guys at that spot. So I have a hard time believing he'd get into a bidding war with Houston for Christian Wood.

[Jvalin]

You don't need to have a plan to try and acquire a TPE for a player who's about to walk. That's just common logic. It ain't a backup plan.

You want a backup plan? The moment Hayward informed Danny he was planning to walk, Wood should have been our #1 target. Problem is, we should have planned ahead. Had we approached Wood from day 1 of free agency, I bet we could have signed him. When Danny finally secured the TPE, Wood was no longer available on the market.

You're making a ton of assumptions. First, did the Celtics even have interest in Christian Wood? Let's pretend they did. If they approached him the 1st day of free agency, the most we could've offered was the MLE. And at the point, it was still unclear whether it'd be the taxpayers MLE or non-tax MLE. We still didn't know what Gordon was going to do as we were still trying to resign him and Indiana was still in play. And we definitely didn't have the TPE at the point for a sign & trade. So clearly, not the best offer on the market for Wood at that point.

Second, you presume that Wood would've wanted to come here if we just asked? How do we know that? He signed in Houston knowing that James and Westbrook wanted out, so he'd be a featured player. Do we know he'd be comfortable being a 4th option after the Jays + Kemba? People just assume that guys are down to be a 4th or 5th option for a chance at a title, but that's not always the case. Gordon just proved that and so has Jerami Grant.

Come on man, Danny knew that Hayward was about to walk. Why would the Hornets not agree to send us a TPE for a couple of second rounders? Worst case scenario, offer them whatever they want to secure the TPE and use it on Wood. We should have offered Wood 14+ million on day 1 of free agency. That's my point. You only do that if you have a back up plan.

Why would Wood sign with us instead of the Rockets? Cause we could have offered him more money using the TPE.

Again, you're jumping to conclusions. If Hayward chose Indy and we ended up doing a sign & trade, we'd have no TPE to sign Wood with. Even if Danny felt Hayward was out from the jump, we didn't know what he was going to do. No one had Charlotte in the mix.

And I said earlier, Danny doesn't seem interested in paying big money to a center that's not a star and is fine moving forward the MLE guys at that spot. So I have a hard time believing he'd get into a bidding war with Houston for Christian Wood.

Hayward couldn't have ended up at Indy unless Danny agreed to sign and trade him there. The same goes for every team that didn't have enough cap space to sign Hayward.

Regarding your second point:
- Christian Wood is a star in the making.
- If Danny wasn't interested in paying big money to Wood, then he was flat out wrong. I don't think that's the case though. According to reports, he was trying to acquire Wood last season at the trade deadline. Had we made that trade, it's only logical to assume that we would have kept Wood last summer.   

[SHAQATTACK]

I'm glad Danny held off. Who knows where Harden will be in 2 years.

by the looks of it

"weight watchers "