Author Topic: Champions League 2008-09 Thread  (Read 103073 times)

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Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2009, 09:52:35 AM »

Offline ACF

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Liverpool vs Real Madrid 4-0 (5-0 agg.)
Bayern Munchen vs Sporting CF 7-1 (12-1!)
Juventus vs Chelsea 2-2 (2-3)
Panathinaikos vs Villarreal 1-2 (2-3)

Today's fixtures:
Porto vs Atlético
Barcelona vs Lyon
Roma vs Arsenal
Man United vs Inter


Strike through = eliminated.

A great round for the English teams,
with 4 of the last 8 being EPL teams.




Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2009, 10:00:47 AM »

Offline ederson

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So I love playing soccer...but what's the best way to watch it?

I mean do I have to buy a tv package or can I watch online?

What about the cheapest way?

Maybe I can advance from being a detached casual observer to more of a true fan.

Go Liverpool!


Unfortunately leagues like premiership. primera , bundesliga are not free. Same goes to Champions League. You`ll need to buy a package. Of course like everything else there are free illegal alternatives with doubtfull results if i may add....

PS Matt you should thank God for the virus. It`s muche better than watching this movie!

Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #77 on: March 12, 2009, 11:04:00 AM »

Offline cordobes

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The attempt to present ManUtd as a fiscally responsible club is hilarious. They spend more money in a single player than Porto in all the players we buy in a decade - and yet, we've been the club winning more competitions, internationally or domestically in the last 25 years. If we had 1/10 of the money Ferguson has to spend - heck, we only needed enough money to keep our best players - we'd be perennial Champions League winners. Besides, Man United has a huge debt, they're extremely leveraged. And they're one of the biggest spenders in European football, in spite of living on borrowed money.

I'm not sure if you follow American baseball, cord, but that's why I compared ManUtd to the Red Sox.  The Red Sox are the second or third richest team in baseball, and spend a ton of money.  However, they also focus on player development, and are willing to let a player walk away when he prices himself out of their range (i.e., Beckham).

Well, I don't follow baseball but I more or less understand the analogy and is no good. Since when ManUtd allowed Beckham to walk because he was out of their price range? I'm pretty sure it had everything to do with the fact his relationship with Ferguson was broken and nothing with money.

And still, Bekcham is a single player. Who else do you have to show in the last 2 decades? Real Madrid has allowed players to walk away as well; ditto for Barcelona - Ronaldo, Figo, Ronaldinho, etc. No difference here.

The player development...meh, that's another fiction.. how many players from their farm system played yesterday? Giggs, Scholes and O'Shea? 3 guys, that's far from impressive. Real Madrid played with Casillas, Raul and Guti. What's the difference? None, it's just that ManUtd fans often struggle with facts and like to have a romantic view of their team (and the marketing department of MU does a great job with this).


Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #78 on: March 12, 2009, 11:14:06 AM »

Offline cordobes

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PS MU this summer spent less than any other team in premiership.
It is not fair to compare teams the way you did cordobes. English team get tenths of millions in tv money (and that`s only fraction of their income) of course they have greater badget for transfer than Porto (an most teams) What makes MU better than other euro powerhouses is that they spend on a fraction of what they can.

Real gave 50 mil for Pepe and MU a little less for Rio. Which team overpayed?


Why isn't it fair? Porto has better results than MU, even in international competitions, with an exceedingly small part of the resources MU wastes.

MU spends a fraction of what they don't have, maybe. They have an astronomic debt. And why the focus on transfer fees? What about the astronomical salary roll they have?

Pepe didn't cost anything near 50 million. Pepe cost Madrid €28M, while Ferdinand cost €43.9M (yeah, I understand you're a MU fan, so there's no way you would know the facts). More importantly, Pepe's salary is a fraction of Ferdinand's salary. He's a bargain for Madrid, ask any of their supporters. I prefer Pepe to Ferdinand, and when one factors cost, it's not even close.

It's amusing that people talk about the differences between MU, Real, Chelsea, Inter, etc. like they're relevant. They're basically the same thing: they pay the salaries they need to pay to keep the players they want, they don't need to sell players, they buy most of the players they want. Different emanations of the same club. MU spends more in salaries than virtually every other European club.

Anyway, it's going to be amusing to see what happens when a salary cap is instituted.

Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #79 on: March 12, 2009, 11:19:53 AM »

Offline cordobes

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Great result for Man United, but a poor performance.

Inter bottled it. They blew their chances.

Agreed. Inter dominated the game. Mourinho was unlucky. It was about time, I guess...

Porto could have outscored Atletico by 4 or 5 once again. Two more shots hitting the goal-post, that makes 30 this season, it's amazing. Let's hope for a good draw now. I'm hoping for MU, Hulk >>> Ronaldo.

Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #80 on: March 13, 2009, 03:55:09 AM »

Offline ederson

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I won`t argue about the figures. Maybe i mix Pepe and another transfer. Which doesn`t change the fact that Pepe is a joke and even 28mil is 29 more than what his true value.

But on the other hand you are Porto fan so of course you think players who played for your team are better than anyone.

What did you expect? MU paying 500.000/year to keep Christiano and Rooney? PROVEN top players get top money.


MU qualified for 10th time in 13 season at the quarterfinals of CL.
MU won it 2 times and another 2-3 times reached the semis.
Maybe they should "relegate" to UEFA cup and win a few trophies more. 

Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #81 on: March 13, 2009, 08:45:25 AM »

Offline Galiza Ceive

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I kind of agree with Cordobes about Pepe. ALthough imo he is not a bargain at 28million € he is an excellent defender. One of the top in Europe right now and far better than Rio Ferdinand. It is the same situation with Dani Alves in my beloved Barcelona: Is he a bargain at 32 million? No, but am I happy with Barça spending that money in him this summer? Hell yes!!!

I am a bit bias about Porto cause I lived there ne year and I really like the team , but hey should be praised for what they do each year: with limited resources they always findgood players and are able to compete against the top richest European teams.

Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #82 on: March 13, 2009, 10:27:32 AM »

Offline Casperian

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Cordobes is right, ManU doesn´t focus on their youth. People still remember ManU from 10-15 years ago. That team had a lot of players from their own youth, but the Premier League was not as good back then, so it wasn´t as risky to play the young guys.

Bayern, for example, has Rensing, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Lell, Ottl, Müller from their own youth on their current team, and Bayern is not known as a team that builds on their youth. Other national-team players like Hargreaves, Jarolim or Trochowski (and many more) are also from the Bayern youth team.
ManU is the team with the world´s highest merchandising income for over a decade, they have a ton of money and have wasted a lot of it in transfers. They´re certainly not more fiscally responsible than other european top teams.

Quote
I'm hoping for MU, Hulk >>> Ronaldo.

Hulk and Pelé on the same team? Unstoppable  ;D
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #83 on: March 13, 2009, 10:52:46 AM »

Offline cordobes

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I won`t argue about the figures. Maybe i mix Pepe and another transfer. Which doesn`t change the fact that Pepe is a joke and even 28mil is 29 more than what his true value.

In other words, you were misinformed about what actually happened - something that didn't stop you from talking. Maybe you should re-examine your believes about how much MU spends when compared to other top clubs. Honestly, how many times have you seen Pepe playing? These things are always subjective, but I confess I never thought someone would consider Ferdinand a better player than Pepe. Real should regret the money they spend on Metzelder, for example, not Pepe. Ask any Real fan if they have any kind of problem with Pepe's acquisition.

Quote
But on the other hand you are Porto fan so of course you think players who played for your team are better than anyone.

No I don't. That may be the way you analyse players, but not me. Not in football, not in basketball, not in any sport. Therefore, I resent your false accusation.

Quote
What did you expect? MU paying 500.000/year to keep Christiano and Rooney? PROVEN top players get top money.

So? I just found the suggestion that MU is any different than Real or that they only spend a fraction of what they can or that they let overpriced players go absolutely ridiculous. A club with one of the biggest payrolls in the history of football! Just don't pretend you're something you aren't, that's everything I'm saying.

Quote
MU qualified for 10th time in 13 season at the quarterfinals of CL.
MU won it 2 times and another 2-3 times reached the semis.
Maybe they should "relegate" to UEFA cup and win a few trophies more. 

In the last 25 years, Porto won the European Cup/Champions League 2 times, plus one UEFA Cup, an European SuperCup and 2 Intercontinental Cups.

Porto are the record-holder in Champions League appearances, with 14 of them. This is the 6th qualification for the quarter-finals, MU has this on us. Still, a pretty comparable record, considering we advanced from the group stage 4 more times.
 
Now, if one factors the money each team spends, it's not even a contest - like it's a non-contest when you compare Porto with teams with similar resources, teams like Anderlecht, Feyenoord, Besiktas, Olympiakos, etc. If only we weren't forced to build a new team almost every year and see our best players leaving to teams that have astronomical debts like MU...

Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #84 on: March 13, 2009, 10:59:02 AM »

Offline cordobes

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I kind of agree with Cordobes about Pepe. ALthough imo he is not a bargain at 28million € he is an excellent defender. One of the top in Europe right now and far better than Rio Ferdinand. It is the same situation with Dani Alves in my beloved Barcelona: Is he a bargain at 32 million? No, but am I happy with Barça spending that money in him this summer? Hell yes!!!

I am a bit bias about Porto cause I lived there ne year and I really like the team , but hey should be praised for what they do each year: with limited resources they always findgood players and are able to compete against the top richest European teams.

You're not biased; just well-informed and speaking the truth. Great post.

Quote
I'm hoping for MU, Hulk >>> Ronaldo.

Hulk and Pelé on the same team? Unstoppable  ;D


Hehehe. Pelé is not with us any more, he's on loan to Portsmouth. Waste of talent, he likes the night life too much.

The Incredible Hulk is an amazing player. This guy was playing in the Japanese 2nd division, I have no idea how our management finds out these guys. Superb combination of speed, strength and flair.

Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #85 on: March 13, 2009, 01:16:15 PM »

Offline Casperian

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MU qualified for 10th time in 13 season at the quarterfinals of CL.
MU won it 2 times and another 2-3 times reached the semis.
Maybe they should "relegate" to UEFA cup and win a few trophies more. 

In the last 25 years, Porto won the European Cup/Champions League 2 times, plus one UEFA Cup, an European SuperCup and 2 Intercontinental Cups.

Porto are the record-holder in Champions League appearances, with 14 of them. This is the 6th qualification for the quarter-finals, MU has this on us. Still, a pretty comparable record, considering we advanced from the group stage 4 more times.
 
Now, if one factors the money each team spends, it's not even a contest - like it's a non-contest when you compare Porto with teams with similar resources, teams like Anderlecht, Feyenoord, Besiktas, Olympiakos, etc. If only we weren't forced to build a new team almost every year and see our best players leaving to teams that have astronomical debts like MU...

Well, to be fair, the competition in the SuperLiga was never on the level of the Premier League. There´s Sporting, Benfica and Porto, and that´s it. Sporting and Benfica had huge financial problems in the 90ies, so the competition was even weaker. I remember when the whole Porto offense was "Cross to Jardel and get the heck out of the way". It´s still a great accomplishment, but the comparison with ManU is not 100% correct.
Porto´s management is on a level with Olympique Lyon or Bayern Munich (fiscally responsible and succesful), imo, but the weak SuperLiga definitly made things easier for them.

If only the UEFA would install a strict europe-wide licensing system, these teams would finally get the success and recognition they deserve.
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #86 on: March 13, 2009, 02:44:34 PM »

Offline ACF

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The attempt to present ManUtd as a fiscally responsible club is hilarious. They spend more money in a single player than Porto in all the players we buy in a decade - and yet, we've been the club winning more competitions, internationally or domestically in the last 25 years. If we had 1/10 of the money Ferguson has to spend - heck, we only needed enough money to keep our best players - we'd be perennial Champions League winners. Besides, Man United has a huge debt, they're extremely leveraged. And they're one of the biggest spenders in European football, in spite of living on borrowed money.

I'm not sure if you follow American baseball, cord, but that's why I compared ManUtd to the Red Sox.  The Red Sox are the second or third richest team in baseball, and spend a ton of money.  However, they also focus on player development, and are willing to let a player walk away when he prices himself out of their range (i.e., Beckham).

Well, I don't follow baseball but I more or less understand the analogy and is no good. Since when ManUtd allowed Beckham to walk because he was out of their price range? I'm pretty sure it had everything to do with the fact his relationship with Ferguson was broken and nothing with money.

And still, Bekcham is a single player. Who else do you have to show in the last 2 decades? Real Madrid has allowed players to walk away as well; ditto for Barcelona - Ronaldo, Figo, Ronaldinho, etc. No difference here.

The player development...meh, that's another fiction.. how many players from their farm system played yesterday? Giggs, Scholes and O'Shea? 3 guys, that's far from impressive. Real Madrid played with Casillas, Raul and Guti. What's the difference? None, it's just that ManUtd fans often struggle with facts and like to have a romantic view of their team (and the marketing department of MU does a great job with this).



I may not like the way Man U does certain things
moneywise or whatever but I've followed the club
for 25 years(!) this year, so no matter what people
say about the club, I love the Red Devils  :)
I'm not a bandwagoner when it comes to MUFC!
I'm sure you love Porto the same way, cordobes.

Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #87 on: March 13, 2009, 02:50:48 PM »

Offline cordobes

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MU qualified for 10th time in 13 season at the quarterfinals of CL.
MU won it 2 times and another 2-3 times reached the semis.
Maybe they should "relegate" to UEFA cup and win a few trophies more. 

In the last 25 years, Porto won the European Cup/Champions League 2 times, plus one UEFA Cup, an European SuperCup and 2 Intercontinental Cups.

Porto are the record-holder in Champions League appearances, with 14 of them. This is the 6th qualification for the quarter-finals, MU has this on us. Still, a pretty comparable record, considering we advanced from the group stage 4 more times.
 
Now, if one factors the money each team spends, it's not even a contest - like it's a non-contest when you compare Porto with teams with similar resources, teams like Anderlecht, Feyenoord, Besiktas, Olympiakos, etc. If only we weren't forced to build a new team almost every year and see our best players leaving to teams that have astronomical debts like MU...

Well, to be fair, the competition in the SuperLiga was never on the level of the Premier League. There´s Sporting, Benfica and Porto, and that´s it. Sporting and Benfica had huge financial problems in the 90ies, so the competition was even weaker. I remember when the whole Porto offense was "Cross to Jardel and get the heck out of the way". It´s still a great accomplishment, but the comparison with ManU is not 100% correct.
Porto´s management is on a level with Olympique Lyon or Bayern Munich (fiscally responsible and succesful), imo, but the weak SuperLiga definitly made things easier for them.

If only the UEFA would install a strict europe-wide licensing system, these teams would finally get the success and recognition they deserve.

That's a huge misconception, IMO.

1 - Porto is nowhere near close Lyon or Bayern from a financial standpoint. Olympique revenues are like 4 or 5 times bigger than Porto's. The salaries of 3 or 4 Munich players would be enough to pay our entire roster. And Lyon, in spite of being a quite successful team, with an outstanding domestic record, has never won anything significant on European terms - they always fall short to more powerful teams. But they have enough money to keep players like Juninho or Benzema - Porto would never be able to keep them for so long. So, in terms of competence and return for €, we are far ahead those clubs.

2 - Playing in the Superliga is obviously our biggest disadvantage. Portugal is a small, relatively poor country, so the TV revenues are very insignificant (aprox. €7 million last season). Ditto for sponsoring, but the big difference is in terms of revenue: any Premier League club, even, say, Hull City, makes more money than Porto due to that reason.

Again, Porto should be compared are decent sized clubs from small countries, like Standard Liege, Basel, Kiev, Sparta Praga, etc (or the Greek ones, but those are generally owned by billionaires who inject liquidity and money). We don't even come close, financially, from clubs like Bayern or Lyon. For example, we almost signed Carlos Eduardo a couple of years ago, but even Hoffenheim easily outbid us. Middle-of-the-table clubs from La Liga routinely pay better salaries than we can.

Btw, Benfica has a huge fanbase, the only reason we can overspend them now and then is because we are more successful in terms of international competitions and especially selling players to the the top European clubs (because we're better picking and developing them).

Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #88 on: March 20, 2009, 07:16:05 AM »

Offline ederson

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Quarter final (very interesting)


MU-Porto  ;D ;D
Villareal - Arsenal (the semi a few years ago)
Barca-Bayern
Chelsea-Liverpool (again)

Semis

MU-Porto  VS Villareal - Arsenal
Barca-Bayern  VS Chelsea-Liverpool




Re: Champions League 2008-09 Thread
« Reply #89 on: March 20, 2009, 08:05:28 AM »

Offline celticmaestro

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I'm preparing myself for even more United hating from our very own cordobes now. ;D I'm absolutely delighted with that draw. I think we should get to the final. I think Porto are a good side, but we shouldn't have a problem. Neither Arsenal nor Villareal worry me. I would love Liverpool in the final.