Shudda Traded Ray

[Nut from Nh]

I love Ray Allen.  I think he's one of the best shooters every to play, has been instrumental in Rondo's development (it was rumored more than once that Ray was the only guy who get thru to Rondo), and I think he is a true profesional.... BUT

Trading Ray Allen last Feb was, and continues to be the only way the C's could possibly have competed in 2010 and at the same time rebuilt for 2011 - 2013.

We went on to have a heck of a run, and Ray played great.  Horrible shooting for most of the finals aside, he played some of the greatest defense I've seen in my entire life.

But was it worth it?  We are screwed this offseason guys.  We have zero options other than to amass a bit of scrap heap talent for one more run with a team that was too old and lacked explosiveness on offense to defeat the Lakers.

The possibilities were endless in Feb.  I don't care what anyone says, we could have gotten a younger all star or borderline all star to put next to Rondo. 

Maybe we wouldn't have played in June, but we would be far better positioned to make it into June 2011.

Wudda, Cudda, Shudda....

I'm utterly depressed. 

There is only one scenario IMO...

*  Get Shaq motivated to join our fossils of PP, Ray and KG to defeat Kobe together in a triumphant year of shared retribution, and get him for peanuts (vet minimum)

* Resign everyone to affordable contracts, Nate-Ray-TA

*  Turn Sheeds contract into basically a S&T that nets you a pretty darn good EXPLOSIVE younger wing to spell Paul and Ray all year so they are fresh.  A guy who can takeover games when we can't score to save our lives, ie the 2nd half of game 7

* and then use the MLE to get another worthwhile player

We can get # 18, but you need Shaq, Sheeds contract to become an explosive borderline star wing, and then another starter caliber player with the MLE, and bring back everyone.

That's the only way.  We're screwed guys.

[JSD]

I love Ray Allen.  I think he's one of the best shooters every to play, has been instrumental in Rondo's development (it was rumored more than once that Ray was the only guy who get thru to Rondo), and I think he is a true profesional.... BUT

Trading Ray Allen last Feb was, and continues to be the only way the C's could possibly have competed in 2010 and at the same time rebuilt for 2011 - 2013.

We went on to have a heck of a run, and Ray played great.  Horrible shooting for most of the finals aside, he played some of the greatest defense I've seen in my entire life.

But was it worth it?  We are screwed this offseason guys.  We have zero options other than to amass a bit of scrap heap talent for one more run with a team that was too old and lacked explosiveness on offense to defeat the Lakers.

The possibilities were endless in Feb.  I don't care what anyone says, we could have gotten a younger all star or borderline all star to put next to Rondo. 

Maybe we wouldn't have played in June, but we would be far better positioned to make it into June 2011.

Wudda, Cudda, Shudda....

I'm utterly depressed. 

There is only one scenario IMO...

*  Get Shaq motivated to join our fossils of PP, Ray and KG to defeat Kobe together in a triumphant year of shared retribution, and get him for peanuts (vet minimum)

* Resign everyone to affordable contracts, Nate-Ray-TA

*  Turn Sheeds contract into basically a S&T that nets you a pretty darn good EXPLOSIVE younger wing to spell Paul and Ray all year so they are fresh.  A guy who can takeover games when we can't score to save our lives, ie the 2nd half of game 7

* and then use the MLE to get another worthwhile player

We can get # 18, but you need Shaq, Sheeds contract to become an explosive borderline star wing, and then another starter caliber player with the MLE, and bring back everyone.

That's the only way.  We're screwed guys.

I'd love to see Shaq here for the Min, but it would probably take a good portion of the MLE.

[csfansince60s]

TP, Nut. I was a big proponent at the deadline to trade Ray for Hinrich, Salmons and Ty Thomas. Many on this board didn't like that. In retrospect, Chicago gave these guys away, and we could have had them now. (never mind the possibility of Deng and a pick). My theory was the same: that Hinrich's bloated contarct would expire the same time as KGs and we would have the above-mentioned talent going forward. Too bad!

[wdleehi]

If only a good trade was available at the time.

[Change]

And get who an overpaid, overrated player. That would've limited Celtics option even more. Celtics did the right thing by keeping him. The bench was the problem for the majority of the playoffs. For this last push, Ainge has to fix this bench once and for all & get consistent player.

[jdpapa3]

Danny seems to have kicked the tires on just about every young wingman and pf in the entire league and nothing available kept us competitive. Or they tried to dump terrible salary on us instead.

It's completely reasonable to say that any trade would've killed our on court chemistry this year in midseason and cost us a chance at a title. And you can make a pretty darn good argument that we win the title if Perkins doesn't blow out his knee in the first quarter of game 6.

[cdif911]

I enjoyed the run so much this year, and at the time did want Danny to trade Ray

hindsight being what it is, I for one am glad they did not trade him - I wouldn't trade the run for the likelihood that we don't make the finals (or beat Lebron) without Ray

now Danny does have to find a way to not set the franchise back 20 years, but I think honestly the returns we could have had would just be albatross contracts that limit moving forward anyways

[JSD]

If only a good trade was available at the time.

Pretty much.

[Nut from Nh]

If only a good trade was available at the time.

Pretty much.

I can't prove a good trade was available any more than either of you can prove that there WASN'T one available.  All I can do is speculate, much like everyone else in here.

But I have no doubt that there was something out there for two reasons... 1, people have postioned themselves for 3 years for this summer, and they have done so with decisions based exclusively on financial reasons.  Teams continue to make irrational basketball talent decisions up and into the draft.  The options were there, and there are countless examples.

and reason two, fear.  Danny was scared IMO and I don't blame him one bit.  His team could have sent into an emotional and spiritual crisis if he took away Ray and broke up the big three when they were two months away from having their first and only chance to defend their title. 

thats a pretty respectable reason not to do it. 

But to say that options weren't available to me is just irrational seeing as history has proven and continues to prove that teams are more than willing to hand over talent to achieve nothing more than a shot at clearing cap to land a stud.

[gar]

Are we talking real trades of just wishful thinking. Some of the trades that people propose on this board are over the top. Ray's contract may have been valuable; but a run at the championship and a game 7 in the finals is priceless. Anyone who thinks we would have been there without Ray is practicing some pretty wishful thinking.

[jdpapa3]

The Rockets had a similar situation in Tracy McGrady's expiring and they got prospects and draft picks. So we basically would've gotten worse and likely been knocked out by Cleveland.

note: Carl Landry for Kevin Martin was just about an even swap.

[Mr October]

TP, Nut. I was a big proponent at the deadline to trade Ray for Hinrich, Salmons and Ty Thomas. Many on this board didn't like that. In retrospect, Chicago gave these guys away, and we could have had them now. (never mind the possibility of Deng and a pick). My theory was the same: that Hinrich's bloated contarct would expire the same time as KGs and we would have the above-mentioned talent going forward. Too bad!

From a talent standpoint, that looked like a good deal. However, If Salmons didn't opt out, the Celtics would have been forced to carry Salmons, Hinrich and a match Ty Thomas salary - when the team was already locking Rondo into his dramatic raise, and Rasheed's retirement was just a twinkle in Sheed's eye..

The C's needed to get Ray Allen's 19 million off the books not add onto it.

The Celtics were only going to spring on a Gasol-esque salary dump if they were going to break up the old three. They certainly weren't going to trade Ray for even more salaries.

I still don't think there was a good deal out there for Ray Allen from a business stand point.

Besides the chance of getting a title was worth it. I really enjoyed that run.

[Eddie20]

I was thinking about that very thing today. We could've had Haywood, Butler, and Stevenson for Allen. Instead they were traded for Josh Howard, Gooden (who was cut), Singleton, and Ross. Not to mention that Dallas also received cash in addition to those players.

It would've been great for us. We would've had Butler and Stevenson (not that he's anything special but does play solid D) and both their contracts would both be expiring next summer. We then would have a ridiculous amount of expiring contracts to make a mid-season key acquisition. Perk, Stevenson, Davis, Butler, and Sheed's retiring deal would give us nearly 30M to make a splash at the trade deadline.

[libermaniac]

I think the C's will be fine.  We will have a 2 year "rebuilding window" - the next 2 years.  Hopefully, Danny doesn't offer ANY contract beyond the '11-'12 season, except perhaps extending Perk while he's cheap due to injury risk.  Then, come the '12 offseason, the only contracts they will have is Rondo, Perk, Bradley and the draft picks from the next 2 years.  At that time, there will be cap space to acquire good FAs, and any good FA worth his salt will want to come play with Rondo.

In the meantime, the C's are always dangerous to make another deep playoff run.

[Mr October]

I think the C's will be fine.  We will have a 2 year "rebuilding window" - the next 2 years.  Hopefully, Danny doesn't offer ANY contract beyond the '11-'12 season, except perhaps extending Perk while he's cheap due to injury risk.  Then, come the '12 offseason, the only contracts they will have is Rondo, Perk, Bradley and the draft picks from the next 2 years.  At that time, there will be cap space to acquire good FAs, and any good FA worth his salt will want to come play with Rondo.

In the meantime, the C's are always dangerous to make another deep playoff run.

I think the rebuilding window will be longer than the next 2 years. The next 2 years will just be a transition into the rebuilding years while the C's try to remain competitive. If Carmello Anthony and Dwight Howard are extended, the 2012 free agent pool will not have any super stars in it to run with Rondo.

A core of say Rondo, Eric Gordan and Brook Lopez, doesn't inspire much confidence.

Anyway my point is that we have to enjoy what we have while we have it. The rebuilding road is full of uncertainty, and usually requires lots of careful planning and a ton of luck.