Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[SparzWizard]

I have a bad feeling this is the game that'll start their next slump, heading into the postseason.

And it doesnt help this slump will come against NBA Finals-caliber teams. You can bet the Nuggets will come in angry and mop the floor out of this team on Wednesday since they lost a hard-fought game against the Suns tonight at their own home. They aren't losing two in a row.

Why is it less likely that Denver, rather than Boston, drops two in a row?

They're at home, not traveling and they just lost an overtime thriller on the same floor in which they will retaliate. Meanwhile, Boston may still mentally be processing that previous loss and they now have to travel to an arena at high altitude. And they do need to work on their mental aspect of the game.

Also Jokic > Porzingis, while Murray and Porter will give this team some trouble. Oh, and Mike Malone will run circles around Joe Mazzulla.

[ozgod]

I have a bad feeling this is the game that'll start their next slump, heading into the postseason.

And it doesnt help this slump will come against NBA Finals-caliber teams. You can bet the Nuggets will come in angry and mop the floor out of this team on Wednesday since they lost a hard-fought game against the Suns tonight at their own home. They aren't losing two in a row.

Why is it less likely that Denver, rather than Boston, drops two in a row?

They're at home, not traveling and they just lost an overtime thriller on the same floor in which they will retaliate. Meanwhile, Boston may still mentally be processing that previous loss and they now have to travel to an arena at high altitude. And they do need to work on their mental aspect of the game.

Also Jokic > Porzingis, while Murray and Porter will give this team some trouble. Oh, and Mike Malone will run circles around Joe Mazzulla.

OR you're just trying to reverse jinx the Cs like you always do 

[Roy H.]

Mazzulla said he tried to call a timeout with 4.6 seconds remaining but that’s not necessarily a good thing either. It’s much easier to defend an inbounds play with five seconds on the clock as opposed to 10 or 15 seconds. At that point in the play, Tatum had Garland on him for an isolation sequence but it was evident the Cavs were sending help Garland’s way, something that should have been predictable with Boston looking to take advantage with cutting or using Tatum as a decoy. Instead, the All-Star settled for a contested, low percentage shot.

Holding for one shot makes all the sense in the world in a tie game. Doing so while trailing leaves you no margin for effort.

Despite this universal outstanding, Tuesday’s loss marked the third time in the last two seasons that Tatum has made this mistake. Boston has lost all three of those games (Knicks last March, 76ers in playoffs, Cleveland Tuesday night).

It’s the same response as he had a couple of times last year but obviously no progress has been made on the court. At this point, it’s on Mazzulla to make some kind of change in these trailing sequences. He needs to show more accountability either with himself or Tatum in these spots. Have a quick trigger on a timeout or have someone besides Tatum initiate these sequences. Boston has plenty of ball handlers who can play with urgency in these spots. It’s time for them to start using them rather than settling for diminishing returns with Tatum’s decision making in these spots.

[green_bballers13]

According to Washburn, not a single one of Wade's three-pointers was contested.

A question for Joe's defenders: when a guy is white hot like that, does it make sense to cover him?  Or is the "no adjustments" strategy the best one?

I think they just executed bad… Poor rotations, not communicating on defense and leaving him open during transition which is where he made most of his threes. I think it was because they had switched off with 10 minutes ago. They were up by 20 they thought they were gonna coast to victory, And that it’s hard to switch back on when the other team applies pressure and you’re thinking about the nice hot shower you’re going to have in 10 mins 

This result is humiliating and should sting a lot… and if they’re going to take the plaudits for winning by 50 they deserve all the criticism that’s going to come their way over the next couple of days. That a guy like Wade out, scored the entire Celtics lineup, including our starters in the fourth quarter. The only explanation for it is that they had mailed it in before that thinking they were gonna win. Disrespected the game and they got what they deserved.

While it's obviously true that the Celtics were coasting, does the coach have no obligations?  Isn't his job to identify what is going wrong on the floor, and to help his team respond to it? If not, why is he there at all?

Wonder If Warriors fans were asking the same of Steve Kerr after that loss the other night. Guess he didn’t call enough timeouts.

When a team loses by 50, it usually doesn't come down to coaching. That's why Joe really hasn't gotten a lot of criticism when we've been blown out this year, or even after the Lakers game, when the team clearly didn't show up to play. 

That said, yes, Kerr was in fact criticized after their loss to the Celtics. They experimented with sagging off of Jaylen, and it turned out to be a bad call. People acknowledged that, rather than pretending that Kerr was infallible. That's something that Joe's super fans would never consider.

I'm not sure if he has super fans. Just people that call out nonsensical claims like he's a bottom 5 coach, he can't improve, and he's not competent. I don't think he deserves coach of the year and don't think he's incredible. I think he's a league average coach, which isn't bad for Year 2.

I didn't see last night's game, but it looked like a tough loss. If the regular season doesn't count, why are we drawing conclusions about Joe from a regular season game?

[Roy H.]

According to Washburn, not a single one of Wade's three-pointers was contested.

A question for Joe's defenders: when a guy is white hot like that, does it make sense to cover him?  Or is the "no adjustments" strategy the best one?

I think they just executed bad… Poor rotations, not communicating on defense and leaving him open during transition which is where he made most of his threes. I think it was because they had switched off with 10 minutes ago. They were up by 20 they thought they were gonna coast to victory, And that it’s hard to switch back on when the other team applies pressure and you’re thinking about the nice hot shower you’re going to have in 10 mins 

This result is humiliating and should sting a lot… and if they’re going to take the plaudits for winning by 50 they deserve all the criticism that’s going to come their way over the next couple of days. That a guy like Wade out, scored the entire Celtics lineup, including our starters in the fourth quarter. The only explanation for it is that they had mailed it in before that thinking they were gonna win. Disrespected the game and they got what they deserved.

While it's obviously true that the Celtics were coasting, does the coach have no obligations?  Isn't his job to identify what is going wrong on the floor, and to help his team respond to it? If not, why is he there at all?

Wonder If Warriors fans were asking the same of Steve Kerr after that loss the other night. Guess he didn’t call enough timeouts.

When a team loses by 50, it usually doesn't come down to coaching. That's why Joe really hasn't gotten a lot of criticism when we've been blown out this year, or even after the Lakers game, when the team clearly didn't show up to play. 

That said, yes, Kerr was in fact criticized after their loss to the Celtics. They experimented with sagging off of Jaylen, and it turned out to be a bad call. People acknowledged that, rather than pretending that Kerr was infallible. That's something that Joe's super fans would never consider.

I'm not sure if he has super fans. Just people that call out nonsensical claims like he's a bottom 5 coach, he can't improve, and he's not competent. I don't think he deserves coach of the year and don't think he's incredible. I think he's a league average coach, which isn't bad for Year 2.

I didn't see last night's game, but it looked like a tough loss. If the regular season doesn't count, why are we drawing conclusions about Joe from a regular season game?

And yet, here you are, after a game you didn't watch, defending Joe or "calling out" his critics.  That sounds remarkably like trolling.

[bdm860]

I have a bad feeling this is the game that'll start their next slump, heading into the postseason.

And it doesnt help this slump will come against NBA Finals-caliber teams. You can bet the Nuggets will come in angry and mop the floor out of this team on Wednesday since they lost a hard-fought game against the Suns tonight at their own home. They aren't losing two in a row.

Why is it less likely that Denver, rather than Boston, drops two in a row?

They're at home, not traveling and they just lost an overtime thriller on the same floor in which they will retaliate. Meanwhile, Boston may still mentally be processing that previous loss and they now have to travel to an arena at high altitude. And they do need to work on their mental aspect of the game.

Also Jokic > Porzingis, while Murray and Porter will give this team some trouble. Oh, and Mike Malone will run circles around Joe Mazzulla.

OR you're just trying to reverse jinx the Cs like you always do 

On the positive side.

Denver has 4 multi-game losing streaks this season (as recently as last month) to Boston's 1 (which was in November).

Also Boston has followed up every loss with a win in the follow up meeting to that same team (only applies to about half of Boston's losses though, as the rest have no more meetings or haven't played again yet).

[green_bballers13]

According to Washburn, not a single one of Wade's three-pointers was contested.

A question for Joe's defenders: when a guy is white hot like that, does it make sense to cover him?  Or is the "no adjustments" strategy the best one?

I think they just executed bad… Poor rotations, not communicating on defense and leaving him open during transition which is where he made most of his threes. I think it was because they had switched off with 10 minutes ago. They were up by 20 they thought they were gonna coast to victory, And that it’s hard to switch back on when the other team applies pressure and you’re thinking about the nice hot shower you’re going to have in 10 mins 

This result is humiliating and should sting a lot… and if they’re going to take the plaudits for winning by 50 they deserve all the criticism that’s going to come their way over the next couple of days. That a guy like Wade out, scored the entire Celtics lineup, including our starters in the fourth quarter. The only explanation for it is that they had mailed it in before that thinking they were gonna win. Disrespected the game and they got what they deserved.

While it's obviously true that the Celtics were coasting, does the coach have no obligations?  Isn't his job to identify what is going wrong on the floor, and to help his team respond to it? If not, why is he there at all?

Wonder If Warriors fans were asking the same of Steve Kerr after that loss the other night. Guess he didn’t call enough timeouts.

When a team loses by 50, it usually doesn't come down to coaching. That's why Joe really hasn't gotten a lot of criticism when we've been blown out this year, or even after the Lakers game, when the team clearly didn't show up to play. 

That said, yes, Kerr was in fact criticized after their loss to the Celtics. They experimented with sagging off of Jaylen, and it turned out to be a bad call. People acknowledged that, rather than pretending that Kerr was infallible. That's something that Joe's super fans would never consider.

I'm not sure if he has super fans. Just people that call out nonsensical claims like he's a bottom 5 coach, he can't improve, and he's not competent. I don't think he deserves coach of the year and don't think he's incredible. I think he's a league average coach, which isn't bad for Year 2.

I didn't see last night's game, but it looked like a tough loss. If the regular season doesn't count, why are we drawing conclusions about Joe from a regular season game?

And yet, here you are, after a game you didn't watch, defending Joe or "calling out" his critics.  That sounds remarkably like trolling.

I can only speak for myself, but haven't seen people embrace Joe nearly as much as Ime generated fans. I think Joe's ok, and think the criticism has been rash and unreasonable, especially during a great regular season. I'm wondering why we can't make judgements after wins because only the playoffs matter, but can do so after losses? I wish I caught the game- sounded like it was good except for the end.

[Roy H.]

According to Washburn, not a single one of Wade's three-pointers was contested.

A question for Joe's defenders: when a guy is white hot like that, does it make sense to cover him?  Or is the "no adjustments" strategy the best one?

I think they just executed bad… Poor rotations, not communicating on defense and leaving him open during transition which is where he made most of his threes. I think it was because they had switched off with 10 minutes ago. They were up by 20 they thought they were gonna coast to victory, And that it’s hard to switch back on when the other team applies pressure and you’re thinking about the nice hot shower you’re going to have in 10 mins 

This result is humiliating and should sting a lot… and if they’re going to take the plaudits for winning by 50 they deserve all the criticism that’s going to come their way over the next couple of days. That a guy like Wade out, scored the entire Celtics lineup, including our starters in the fourth quarter. The only explanation for it is that they had mailed it in before that thinking they were gonna win. Disrespected the game and they got what they deserved.

While it's obviously true that the Celtics were coasting, does the coach have no obligations?  Isn't his job to identify what is going wrong on the floor, and to help his team respond to it? If not, why is he there at all?

Wonder If Warriors fans were asking the same of Steve Kerr after that loss the other night. Guess he didn’t call enough timeouts.

When a team loses by 50, it usually doesn't come down to coaching. That's why Joe really hasn't gotten a lot of criticism when we've been blown out this year, or even after the Lakers game, when the team clearly didn't show up to play. 

That said, yes, Kerr was in fact criticized after their loss to the Celtics. They experimented with sagging off of Jaylen, and it turned out to be a bad call. People acknowledged that, rather than pretending that Kerr was infallible. That's something that Joe's super fans would never consider.

I'm not sure if he has super fans. Just people that call out nonsensical claims like he's a bottom 5 coach, he can't improve, and he's not competent. I don't think he deserves coach of the year and don't think he's incredible. I think he's a league average coach, which isn't bad for Year 2.

I didn't see last night's game, but it looked like a tough loss. If the regular season doesn't count, why are we drawing conclusions about Joe from a regular season game?

And yet, here you are, after a game you didn't watch, defending Joe or "calling out" his critics.  That sounds remarkably like trolling.

I can only speak for myself, but haven't seen people embrace Joe nearly as much as Ime generated fans. I think Joe's ok, and think the criticism has been rash and unreasonable, especially during a great regular season. I'm wondering why we can't make judgements after wins because only the playoffs matter, but can do so after losses? I wish I caught the game- sounded like it was good except for the end.

You can make judgments, arguments or observations.  You can't "call out" or troll other posters.

[Kernewek]

Mazzulla said he tried to call a timeout with 4.6 seconds remaining but that’s not necessarily a good thing either. It’s much easier to defend an inbounds play with five seconds on the clock as opposed to 10 or 15 seconds. At that point in the play, Tatum had Garland on him for an isolation sequence but it was evident the Cavs were sending help Garland’s way, something that should have been predictable with Boston looking to take advantage with cutting or using Tatum as a decoy. Instead, the All-Star settled for a contested, low percentage shot.

Holding for one shot makes all the sense in the world in a tie game. Doing so while trailing leaves you no margin for effort.

Despite this universal outstanding, Tuesday’s loss marked the third time in the last two seasons that Tatum has made this mistake. Boston has lost all three of those games (Knicks last March, 76ers in playoffs, Cleveland Tuesday night).

It’s the same response as he had a couple of times last year but obviously no progress has been made on the court. At this point, it’s on Mazzulla to make some kind of change in these trailing sequences. He needs to show more accountability either with himself or Tatum in these spots. Have a quick trigger on a timeout or have someone besides Tatum initiate these sequences. Boston has plenty of ball handlers who can play with urgency in these spots. It’s time for them to start using them rather than settling for diminishing returns with Tatum’s decision making in these spots.

My initial reaction - although I didn't watch the full game, but I have watched the end of the game, and I have watched the Celtics do the same Tatum ISO many times over the years - is that at a certain point, we should probably accept that the Tatum ISO jumper is part of who he is.

[Roy H.]

Mazzulla said he tried to call a timeout with 4.6 seconds remaining but that’s not necessarily a good thing either. It’s much easier to defend an inbounds play with five seconds on the clock as opposed to 10 or 15 seconds. At that point in the play, Tatum had Garland on him for an isolation sequence but it was evident the Cavs were sending help Garland’s way, something that should have been predictable with Boston looking to take advantage with cutting or using Tatum as a decoy. Instead, the All-Star settled for a contested, low percentage shot.

Holding for one shot makes all the sense in the world in a tie game. Doing so while trailing leaves you no margin for effort.

Despite this universal outstanding, Tuesday’s loss marked the third time in the last two seasons that Tatum has made this mistake. Boston has lost all three of those games (Knicks last March, 76ers in playoffs, Cleveland Tuesday night).

It’s the same response as he had a couple of times last year but obviously no progress has been made on the court. At this point, it’s on Mazzulla to make some kind of change in these trailing sequences. He needs to show more accountability either with himself or Tatum in these spots. Have a quick trigger on a timeout or have someone besides Tatum initiate these sequences. Boston has plenty of ball handlers who can play with urgency in these spots. It’s time for them to start using them rather than settling for diminishing returns with Tatum’s decision making in these spots.

My initial reaction - although I didn't watch the full game, but I have watched the end of the game, and I have watched the Celtics do the same Tatum ISO many times over the years - is that at a certain point, we should probably accept that the Tatum ISO jumper is part of who he is.

That may be the case. If it is, I think Joe needs to take the ball out of his hands in those situations, at least some of the time.

[Donoghus]

Mazzulla said he tried to call a timeout with 4.6 seconds remaining but that’s not necessarily a good thing either. It’s much easier to defend an inbounds play with five seconds on the clock as opposed to 10 or 15 seconds. At that point in the play, Tatum had Garland on him for an isolation sequence but it was evident the Cavs were sending help Garland’s way, something that should have been predictable with Boston looking to take advantage with cutting or using Tatum as a decoy. Instead, the All-Star settled for a contested, low percentage shot.

Holding for one shot makes all the sense in the world in a tie game. Doing so while trailing leaves you no margin for effort.

Despite this universal outstanding, Tuesday’s loss marked the third time in the last two seasons that Tatum has made this mistake. Boston has lost all three of those games (Knicks last March, 76ers in playoffs, Cleveland Tuesday night).

It’s the same response as he had a couple of times last year but obviously no progress has been made on the court. At this point, it’s on Mazzulla to make some kind of change in these trailing sequences. He needs to show more accountability either with himself or Tatum in these spots. Have a quick trigger on a timeout or have someone besides Tatum initiate these sequences. Boston has plenty of ball handlers who can play with urgency in these spots. It’s time for them to start using them rather than settling for diminishing returns with Tatum’s decision making in these spots.

My initial reaction - although I didn't watch the full game, but I have watched the end of the game, and I have watched the Celtics do the same Tatum ISO many times over the years - is that at a certain point, we should probably accept that the Tatum ISO jumper is part of who he is.

That may be the case. If it is, I think Joe needs to take the ball out of his hands in those situations, at least some of the time.

It would be nice to see something different in that situation for a change.

I think Tatum gets in his own head a bit in the situation.

[Roy H.]

Mazzulla said he tried to call a timeout with 4.6 seconds remaining but that’s not necessarily a good thing either. It’s much easier to defend an inbounds play with five seconds on the clock as opposed to 10 or 15 seconds. At that point in the play, Tatum had Garland on him for an isolation sequence but it was evident the Cavs were sending help Garland’s way, something that should have been predictable with Boston looking to take advantage with cutting or using Tatum as a decoy. Instead, the All-Star settled for a contested, low percentage shot.

Holding for one shot makes all the sense in the world in a tie game. Doing so while trailing leaves you no margin for effort.

Despite this universal outstanding, Tuesday’s loss marked the third time in the last two seasons that Tatum has made this mistake. Boston has lost all three of those games (Knicks last March, 76ers in playoffs, Cleveland Tuesday night).

It’s the same response as he had a couple of times last year but obviously no progress has been made on the court. At this point, it’s on Mazzulla to make some kind of change in these trailing sequences. He needs to show more accountability either with himself or Tatum in these spots. Have a quick trigger on a timeout or have someone besides Tatum initiate these sequences. Boston has plenty of ball handlers who can play with urgency in these spots. It’s time for them to start using them rather than settling for diminishing returns with Tatum’s decision making in these spots.

My initial reaction - although I didn't watch the full game, but I have watched the end of the game, and I have watched the Celtics do the same Tatum ISO many times over the years - is that at a certain point, we should probably accept that the Tatum ISO jumper is part of who he is.

That may be the case. If it is, I think Joe needs to take the ball out of his hands in those situations, at least some of the time.

It would be nice to see something different in that situation for a change.

I think Tatum gets in his own head a bit in the situation.

I just want to see us try to get the ball into KP at least once in one of these situations. He's one of the biggest mismatches in the NBA against most teams.

[Goldstar88]

According to Washburn, not a single one of Wade's three-pointers was contested.

A question for Joe's defenders: when a guy is white hot like that, does it make sense to cover him?  Or is the "no adjustments" strategy the best one?

I think they just executed bad… Poor rotations, not communicating on defense and leaving him open during transition which is where he made most of his threes. I think it was because they had switched off with 10 minutes ago. They were up by 20 they thought they were gonna coast to victory, And that it’s hard to switch back on when the other team applies pressure and you’re thinking about the nice hot shower you’re going to have in 10 mins 

This result is humiliating and should sting a lot… and if they’re going to take the plaudits for winning by 50 they deserve all the criticism that’s going to come their way over the next couple of days. That a guy like Wade out, scored the entire Celtics lineup, including our starters in the fourth quarter. The only explanation for it is that they had mailed it in before that thinking they were gonna win. Disrespected the game and they got what they deserved.

While it's obviously true that the Celtics were coasting, does the coach have no obligations?  Isn't his job to identify what is going wrong on the floor, and to help his team respond to it? If not, why is he there at all?

Wonder If Warriors fans were asking the same of Steve Kerr after that loss the other night. Guess he didn’t call enough timeouts.

When a team loses by 50, it usually doesn't come down to coaching. That's why Joe really hasn't gotten a lot of criticism when we've been blown out this year, or even after the Lakers game, when the team clearly didn't show up to play. 

That said, yes, Kerr was in fact criticized after their loss to the Celtics. They experimented with sagging off of Jaylen, and it turned out to be a bad call. People acknowledged that, rather than pretending that Kerr was infallible. That's something that Joe's super fans would never consider.

I'm not sure if he has super fans. Just people that call out nonsensical claims like he's a bottom 5 coach, he can't improve, and he's not competent. I don't think he deserves coach of the year and don't think he's incredible. I think he's a league average coach, which isn't bad for Year 2.

I didn't see last night's game, but it looked like a tough loss. If the regular season doesn't count, why are we drawing conclusions about Joe from a regular season game?

And yet, here you are, after a game you didn't watch, defending Joe or "calling out" his critics.  That sounds remarkably like trolling.

I can only speak for myself, but haven't seen people embrace Joe nearly as much as Ime generated fans. I think Joe's ok, and think the criticism has been rash and unreasonable, especially during a great regular season. I'm wondering why we can't make judgements after wins because only the playoffs matter, but can do so after losses? I wish I caught the game- sounded like it was good except for the end.

I agree. I think Joe is doing a decent enough job, but I don’t think he’s a top coach in the league or anything like that. Last nights loss could have been blamed on a number of plays. For example, If Tatum didn’t kick out his leg, C’s win with the tip in by Zinger.  Guess it’s just easier to blame the coach, though. C’s just won 12 in a row and this thread is immediately bumped after a loss.

[tenn_smoothie]

The game should have never come down to a last shot possession to begin with.
Our last shot strategy (as in singular) is a whole different issue.

[BitterJim]

According to Washburn, not a single one of Wade's three-pointers was contested.

A question for Joe's defenders: when a guy is white hot like that, does it make sense to cover him?  Or is the "no adjustments" strategy the best one?

I think they just executed bad… Poor rotations, not communicating on defense and leaving him open during transition which is where he made most of his threes. I think it was because they had switched off with 10 minutes ago. They were up by 20 they thought they were gonna coast to victory, And that it’s hard to switch back on when the other team applies pressure and you’re thinking about the nice hot shower you’re going to have in 10 mins 

This result is humiliating and should sting a lot… and if they’re going to take the plaudits for winning by 50 they deserve all the criticism that’s going to come their way over the next couple of days. That a guy like Wade out, scored the entire Celtics lineup, including our starters in the fourth quarter. The only explanation for it is that they had mailed it in before that thinking they were gonna win. Disrespected the game and they got what they deserved.

While it's obviously true that the Celtics were coasting, does the coach have no obligations?  Isn't his job to identify what is going wrong on the floor, and to help his team respond to it? If not, why is he there at all?

Wonder If Warriors fans were asking the same of Steve Kerr after that loss the other night. Guess he didn’t call enough timeouts.

When a team loses by 50, it usually doesn't come down to coaching. That's why Joe really hasn't gotten a lot of criticism when we've been blown out this year, or even after the Lakers game, when the team clearly didn't show up to play. 

That said, yes, Kerr was in fact criticized after their loss to the Celtics. They experimented with sagging off of Jaylen, and it turned out to be a bad call. People acknowledged that, rather than pretending that Kerr was infallible. That's something that Joe's super fans would never consider.

I'm not sure if he has super fans. Just people that call out nonsensical claims like he's a bottom 5 coach, he can't improve, and he's not competent. I don't think he deserves coach of the year and don't think he's incredible. I think he's a league average coach, which isn't bad for Year 2.

I didn't see last night's game, but it looked like a tough loss. If the regular season doesn't count, why are we drawing conclusions about Joe from a regular season game?

And yet, here you are, after a game you didn't watch, defending Joe or "calling out" his critics.  That sounds remarkably like trolling.

I can only speak for myself, but haven't seen people embrace Joe nearly as much as Ime generated fans. I think Joe's ok, and think the criticism has been rash and unreasonable, especially during a great regular season. I'm wondering why we can't make judgements after wins because only the playoffs matter, but can do so after losses? I wish I caught the game- sounded like it was good except for the end.

You can make judgments, arguments or observations.  You can't "call out" or troll other posters.

With all due respect, Roy, isn't that also the case with a comment like "That's something that Joe's super fans would never consider."

Neither comment meaningfully adds to the discussion (nor treats the "other side" as rational).