Never forget: Celtics fans wanted Pierce gone after 2005 playoffs performance

[SparzWizard]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

Or if KG doesn't get hurt that night in Utah, it might be more than 1 title with Pierce.  Remember that as well.

Sure, plenty of what ifs, but Chris Paul has ended up with HOF career and is obviously significantly younger than Paul Pierce.  And obviously there is no guarantee that CP stayed the whole time and how things would have shaken out, but if I could go back in time to the 2005 draft and knew nothing other than CP would end up with a HOF career and PP would have a normal career arc, I, without question and 100% of the time, would have chosen CP over PP going forward.  100% of the time.

What if they had traded for Paul, and as a result they never were in a position to trade for Garnett?


They probably don't even win one title in that scenario.  CP probably still ends up going to another team in 2012 / 2013.

I do believe if we ended up with the #1 pick in the 2007 lottery, that Ainge would've drafted Durant and probably traded Pierce.

He probably would've built around Durant, Jefferson, Rondo, Perkins, Tony Allen and Delonte West.

So, getting the 5th pick ended up being a blessing in disguise.

Sure, we would've had Durant as our franchise player for the next 10-12 years and a much longer window but I'll still take the championship in '07/08.

Or knowing Ainge, he would've drafted Greg Oden or Mike Conley with the number 1 pick. Just like how he passed on Giannis for Olynyk.

[celticsclay]

This thread has turned into some debate on the butterfly effect.

[gpap]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

Or if KG doesn't get hurt that night in Utah, it might be more than 1 title with Pierce.  Remember that as well.

Sure, plenty of what ifs, but Chris Paul has ended up with HOF career and is obviously significantly younger than Paul Pierce.  And obviously there is no guarantee that CP stayed the whole time and how things would have shaken out, but if I could go back in time to the 2005 draft and knew nothing other than CP would end up with a HOF career and PP would have a normal career arc, I, without question and 100% of the time, would have chosen CP over PP going forward.  100% of the time.

Not me. Chris Paul hasn't won squat in his career. I used to be a huge fan of his, but then you look at those early playoff exits when he was on the Clippers with Blake and Jordan and that tells me something is off with him.

Also, as he's gotten older, he's gotten more and more injury prone.

Last year, the Rockets may have beaten the Warriors if CP3 stayed healthy.

I'm glad we stuck with Pierce. Would've been nice if he remained a Celtic is whole career but also understand Ainge selling high and getting 3 1st rounders (two of which turned into Jaylen and Jayson.)

[gpap]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

Or if KG doesn't get hurt that night in Utah, it might be more than 1 title with Pierce.  Remember that as well.

Sure, plenty of what ifs, but Chris Paul has ended up with HOF career and is obviously significantly younger than Paul Pierce.  And obviously there is no guarantee that CP stayed the whole time and how things would have shaken out, but if I could go back in time to the 2005 draft and knew nothing other than CP would end up with a HOF career and PP would have a normal career arc, I, without question and 100% of the time, would have chosen CP over PP going forward.  100% of the time.

What if they had traded for Paul, and as a result they never were in a position to trade for Garnett?


They probably don't even win one title in that scenario.  CP probably still ends up going to another team in 2012 / 2013.

I do believe if we ended up with the #1 pick in the 2007 lottery, that Ainge would've drafted Durant and probably traded Pierce.

He probably would've built around Durant, Jefferson, Rondo, Perkins, Tony Allen and Delonte West.

So, getting the 5th pick ended up being a blessing in disguise.

Sure, we would've had Durant as our franchise player for the next 10-12 years and a much longer window but I'll still take the championship in '07/08.

Or knowing Ainge, he would've drafted Greg Oden or Mike Conley with the number 1 pick. Just like how he passed on Giannis for Olynyk.

Lol, don't get me started.

[Monkhouse]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

Or if KG doesn't get hurt that night in Utah, it might be more than 1 title with Pierce.  Remember that as well.

Sure, plenty of what ifs, but Chris Paul has ended up with HOF career and is obviously significantly younger than Paul Pierce.  And obviously there is no guarantee that CP stayed the whole time and how things would have shaken out, but if I could go back in time to the 2005 draft and knew nothing other than CP would end up with a HOF career and PP would have a normal career arc, I, without question and 100% of the time, would have chosen CP over PP going forward.  100% of the time.

What if they had traded for Paul, and as a result they never were in a position to trade for Garnett?


They probably don't even win one title in that scenario.  CP probably still ends up going to another team in 2012 / 2013.

I do believe if we ended up with the #1 pick in the 2007 lottery, that Ainge would've drafted Durant and probably traded Pierce.

He probably would've built around Durant, Jefferson, Rondo, Perkins, Tony Allen and Delonte West.

So, getting the 5th pick ended up being a blessing in disguise.

Sure, we would've had Durant as our franchise player for the next 10-12 years and a much longer window but I'll still take the championship in '07/08.

Or knowing Ainge, he would've drafted Greg Oden or Mike Conley with the number 1 pick. Just like how he passed on Giannis for Olynyk.

Ainge has said numerous times that Durant was the only player that he would've drafted.

But can we please leave the drafting process alone... I swear we talk about Giannis like every day, while not being cognizant of the fact other GM's also passed on Giannis too.

[Walker Wiggle]

I also feel however, that Paul always wanted to be a Celtic.

This *feels* true to me, too. But it's not true. Pierce at one point asked to be traded, calling himself "the classic good player on a bad team".

I'm telling you, there are a lot of parallels between Pierce then and Irving now. Even I find it hard to believe, given the way we look at Pierce now, but there it is.

[Donoghus]

This thread has turned into some debate on the butterfly effect.

For sure but any time you can puff your chest out and make a declarative statement on a hypothetical situation, you have to take it.

[Chris22]

Kyrie is not Pierce.

Sheesh.

[SHAQATTACK]

The biggest difference is Celtics fans grew up with Pierce.  He came in to the league as a kid, and by 2005 he'd been with the team for more than half a decade.

Kyrie's been with the team for less than two years, and this is the first time he's represented the Celts in the playoffs.

You make a good point.  But I think it's also understandable that people have less emotional attachment and willingness to put up with Kyrie's immaturity.  I can say personally that he still doesn't really feel like "our guy."  I expect a lot of people feel the same, though I know many Celtics fans have embraced him.  Not sure if he's really embraced being a Celtic.

agree with all you said ,  just think n the fact Kyrie was traded to Celtics , instead of signing like AL or Hayward ....

until HE , Kyrie makes a mutual commitment to Celtics ,  its hard to invest alot emotion into him.  Where guy like IT was willing to be a Celtic for life .

I don't think Kyrie is wired like IT when it comes to loyalty either. 

[RJ87]

I also feel however, that Paul always wanted to be a Celtic.

This *feels* true to me, too. But it's not true. Pierce at one point asked to be traded, calling himself "the classic good player on a bad team".

I'm telling you, there are a lot of parallels between Pierce then and Irving now. Even I find it hard to believe, given the way we look at Pierce now, but there it is.

TP. Of course it *feels* true now, the struggles always get a littler harder to recall once you experience success. Paul wanted to be traded at one point. He even admitted that he told Mark Cuban to get him to Dallas.

[GreenFaith1819]

Great post, OP.

The "Band-Aid" incident sticks out VERY WELL in my mind.

Pierce grew from that time on, and look where he is today.

Same with Kyrie....he is maybe at his lowest point right now but things WILL get better for him...No matter what happens TONIGHT...

I really believe that if he sticks this season out and gives BOS a chance for a few years he will look back on this period of his life and SMILE......

Next season, roles will be better defined.

Gordon Hayward will be EVEN BETTER...I would not be surprised if GH is All-Star level better.

We could VERY WELL have more help coming - depending on any off-season moves that occur. Much of that help COULD come from the Lottery....sure, we have only a 0.6% shot at number one BUT we DO have a shot.....sometimes that is ALL YOU NEED......



Unlikely? Of course...but we DO have a shot....

The Kyrie Irving we see NOW is NOT the final chapter of his book. I hope he leaves it on the floor tonight - NO MATTER the outcome.

Put this past stuff behind you and forge ahead.

I bet Paul didn't think it was going to happen, either - until summer of 2008.

[Who]

I was always shocked by how big of a blow back there was against Pierce for that whole bandage incident. Always overblown.

But yeah, a lot of people did want Pierce traded then. Malcontent. Bad character. Not what a Celtics player should be about. Immature. All that stuff. Bad egg. A coaching problem.

[Moranis]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

Or if KG doesn't get hurt that night in Utah, it might be more than 1 title with Pierce.  Remember that as well.

Sure, plenty of what ifs, but Chris Paul has ended up with HOF career and is obviously significantly younger than Paul Pierce.  And obviously there is no guarantee that CP stayed the whole time and how things would have shaken out, but if I could go back in time to the 2005 draft and knew nothing other than CP would end up with a HOF career and PP would have a normal career arc, I, without question and 100% of the time, would have chosen CP over PP going forward.  100% of the time.

What if they had traded for Paul, and as a result they never were in a position to trade for Garnett?


They probably don't even win one title in that scenario.  CP probably still ends up going to another team in 2012 / 2013.

No idea what position they would have been in.  Maybe they don't land KG but they instead end up with Pau Gasol (who I think an Al Jefferson centered package would have topped the Lakers).  Do Pau and CP win a title or two?  Certainly the Lakers would have been far less likely to win without Pau.  Maybe the C's not having a Big 3 and Lebron ends up staying in Cleveland and not going to Miami, making the Eastern Conference so much different.  Maybe James still leaves Cleveland and goes to play with CP in Boston.  And of course, maybe CP is never paired with anyone of note and decides to leave Boston at the end of this 2nd contract.  obviously changing one thing will invariably change so many future things, sometimes risks are needed.

of course, this is a much different situation for many reasons.  I mean here Boston can't trade Kyrie (unless it is a sign and trade). Losing a player for nothing vs. trading a player for someone like a rookie Chris Paul are 2 entirely different things.  Kyrie was in Boston for just 2 seasons and didn't have such a long history with the team or city.  Kyrie isn't as complete a player so it is arguable who would actually be better to build around.   

[SparzWizard]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

Or if KG doesn't get hurt that night in Utah, it might be more than 1 title with Pierce.  Remember that as well.

Sure, plenty of what ifs, but Chris Paul has ended up with HOF career and is obviously significantly younger than Paul Pierce.  And obviously there is no guarantee that CP stayed the whole time and how things would have shaken out, but if I could go back in time to the 2005 draft and knew nothing other than CP would end up with a HOF career and PP would have a normal career arc, I, without question and 100% of the time, would have chosen CP over PP going forward.  100% of the time.

What if they had traded for Paul, and as a result they never were in a position to trade for Garnett?


They probably don't even win one title in that scenario.  CP probably still ends up going to another team in 2012 / 2013.

I do believe if we ended up with the #1 pick in the 2007 lottery, that Ainge would've drafted Durant and probably traded Pierce.

He probably would've built around Durant, Jefferson, Rondo, Perkins, Tony Allen and Delonte West.

So, getting the 5th pick ended up being a blessing in disguise.

Sure, we would've had Durant as our franchise player for the next 10-12 years and a much longer window but I'll still take the championship in '07/08.

Or knowing Ainge, he would've drafted Greg Oden or Mike Conley with the number 1 pick. Just like how he passed on Giannis for Olynyk.

Ainge has said numerous times that Durant was the only player that he would've drafted.

But can we please leave the drafting process alone... I swear we talk about Giannis like every day, while not being cognizant of the fact other GM's also passed on Giannis too.

Yes, I'll leave the drafting process alone then.

P.s. Ainge proposed a trade and nearly traded four picks for Justise Winslow lolol. Thank goodness Michael Jordan is an idiot GM and decided to say no and draft Kaminsky instead

[BitterJim]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

Or if KG doesn't get hurt that night in Utah, it might be more than 1 title with Pierce.  Remember that as well.

Sure, plenty of what ifs, but Chris Paul has ended up with HOF career and is obviously significantly younger than Paul Pierce.  And obviously there is no guarantee that CP stayed the whole time and how things would have shaken out, but if I could go back in time to the 2005 draft and knew nothing other than CP would end up with a HOF career and PP would have a normal career arc, I, without question and 100% of the time, would have chosen CP over PP going forward.  100% of the time.

What if they had traded for Paul, and as a result they never were in a position to trade for Garnett?


They probably don't even win one title in that scenario.  CP probably still ends up going to another team in 2012 / 2013.

I do believe if we ended up with the #1 pick in the 2007 lottery, that Ainge would've drafted Durant and probably traded Pierce.

He probably would've built around Durant, Jefferson, Rondo, Perkins, Tony Allen and Delonte West.

So, getting the 5th pick ended up being a blessing in disguise.

Sure, we would've had Durant as our franchise player for the next 10-12 years and a much longer window but I'll still take the championship in '07/08.

Or knowing Ainge, he would've drafted Greg Oden or Mike Conley with the number 1 pick. Just like how he passed on Giannis for Olynyk.

Durant as a draft prospectwas in another stratosphere compared to Giannis as a draft prospect.

One had a great year in college and obvious potential, the other played in the Greek second division and was more a physical freak than a basketball player.