Never forget: Celtics fans wanted Pierce gone after 2005 playoffs performance

[Triplenickle]

Interesting stuff, OP. Paul Pierce's earlier part of his career was before my time, so you only ever hear the positives.

Before Antoine got fat the lockout season, he was the one bright light and future star this team finally had.  He didn't disappoint and was clearly "the man". Next year they drafted Paul, and in training camp they went one on one everyday talking trash to each other.

Opening night every time down the floor Antoine brought the ball down and fed Pierce play after play.  He already knew what he was capable of and let Paul be "the man".

I ALWAYS respected Antoine after that.

[Monkhouse]

Interesting stuff, OP. Paul Pierce's earlier part of his career was before my time, so you only ever hear the positives.

Before Antoine got fat the lockout season, he was the one bright light and future star this team finally had.  He didn't disappoint and was clearly "the man" Next year they drafted Paul, and in training camp they went one on one everyday talking trash to each other.

Opening night every time down the floor Antoine brought the ball down and fed Pierce play after play.  He already knew what he was capable of and let Paul be "the man".

I ALWAYS respected Antoine after that.

Interesting stuff, OP. Paul Pierce's earlier part of his career was before my time, so you only ever hear the positives.

That was because Danny started his character assasination on Paul and he got tired and frustrated about it that season.

All this is revisionist history...P was never that bad and Antoine was the one that everyone gave the Kyrie treatment disregarding what he was actually able to do simply because he starting shooting more 3's, and the walker wiggle.

Turning Pierce into the bad guy and trading Antoine is why I never really cared for Danny or his ways. He can really be a weasel when he wants to be.

Then Antoine goes on to contribute to winning a chip in Miami.

Danny is not as clever as yall think he is. He NEVER goes after the right players to compliment what he has, and then makes what he has the bad guy while he pats himself on the back for being able to fleece other teams thinking he's Red or something.

Revisionist bs...

I'm going to disagree, Walker definitely made himself unlikable to Celtic fans for his actions...

[Triplenickle]

Interesting stuff, OP. Paul Pierce's earlier part of his career was before my time, so you only ever hear the positives.

Before Antoine got fat the lockout season, he was the one bright light and future star this team finally had.  He didn't disappoint and was clearly "the man" Next year they drafted Paul, and in training camp they went one on one everyday talking trash to each other.

Opening night every time down the floor Antoine brought the ball down and fed Pierce play after play.  He already knew what he was capable of and let Paul be "the man".

I ALWAYS respected Antoine after that.

Interesting stuff, OP. Paul Pierce's earlier part of his career was before my time, so you only ever hear the positives.

That was because Danny started his character assasination on Paul and he got tired and frustrated about it that season.

All this is revisionist history...P was never that bad and Antoine was the one that everyone gave the Kyrie treatment disregarding what he was actually able to do simply because he starting shooting more 3's, and the walker wiggle.

Turning Pierce into the bad guy and trading Antoine is why I never really cared for Danny or his ways. He can really be a weasel when he wants to be.

Then Antoine goes on to contribute to winning a chip in Miami.

Danny is not as clever as yall think he is. He NEVER goes after the right players to compliment what he has, and then makes what he has the bad guy while he pats himself on the back for being able to fleece other teams thinking he's Red or something.

Revisionist bs...

I'm going to disagree, Walker definitely made himself unlikable to Celtic fans for his actions...

Yeah, but while everyone misunderstood Antoine's emotions like he was Cousins or something....he was actually full of fire and wanted to win by any means necessary, and time and time again did whatever the team needed him to do.  And the dude did all the small things as well as the big things.  At 6'9 he was a true point guard that actually pushed the ball everytime down the floor...probably from being groomed in Pitino's system, but he also played like a true power forward who didn't back down from the Oakley's and Mourning's and held his own. I even remember him cocking back on Oak like he was gonna hit him, and Oakley never tried that punk mess with him again.

Whether it rubbed people the wrong way when he got away from himself sometimes...dude had the heart of a winner, and if Ainge did his job correctly they woulda had a title or 2 with those guys.

He was also hands down the leader of the team every year he was here.

[footey]

All this is revisionist history...P was never that bad and Antoine was the one that everyone gave the Kyrie treatment disregarding what he was actually able to do simply because he starting shooting more 3's, and the walker wiggle.

Turning Pierce into the bad guy and trading Antoine is why I never really cared for Danny or his ways. He can really be a weasel when he wants to be.

Then Antoine goes on to contribute to winning a chip in Miami.

Danny is not as clever as yall think he is. He NEVER goes after the right players to compliment what he has, and then makes what he has the bad guy while he pats himself on the back for being able to fleece other teams thinking he's Red or something.

Revisionist bs...

Disagree. Pierce was a royal pain in the butt. Mostly due to his frustration during Ainge rebuild period. Just as bad or worse than a Kyrie. Even asking to be traded.

[Moranis]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

[Triplenickle]

All this is revisionist history...P was never that bad and Antoine was the one that everyone gave the Kyrie treatment disregarding what he was actually able to do simply because he starting shooting more 3's, and the walker wiggle.

Turning Pierce into the bad guy and trading Antoine is why I never really cared for Danny or his ways. He can really be a weasel when he wants to be.

Then Antoine goes on to contribute to winning a chip in Miami.

Danny is not as clever as yall think he is. He NEVER goes after the right players to compliment what he has, and then makes what he has the bad guy while he pats himself on the back for being able to fleece other teams thinking he's Red or something.

Revisionist bs...

Disagree. Pierce was a royal pain in the butt. Mostly due to his frustration during Ainge rebuild period. Just as bad or worse than a Kyrie. Even asking to be traded.

Well, that's your take because everyone was clearly shocked by Paul's actions and knew he wanted to play his entire career here.

Seriously, Danny was a weasel, man.  And even when he was a player, he was a weasel and I never really cared for him.  Matter fact Chief was my favorite Celtic.

But we don't have to agree...i'm not here to argue, just give my opinion.

[Donoghus]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

Or if KG doesn't get hurt that night in Utah, it might be more than 1 title with Pierce.  Remember that as well.

[gpap]

Two different scenarios.

Kyrie is set to become a free agent, Paul wasn't.

Also, Paul had more value to the Celts than he would have for any other team so the Celts wouldn't have gotten a good enough return. Realistically, what could the Celts have gotten in return for Pierce after the 2005 season?

Finally, if Ainge did trade Pierce, it would've been an even longer rebuild which means that the magical 2007 offseason and 2007-08 season never happens.

[Donoghus]

Two different scenarios.

Kyrie is set to become a free agent, Paul wasn't.

Also, Paul had more value to the Celts than he would have for any other team so the Celts wouldn't have gotten a good enough return. Realistically, what could the Celts have gotten in return for Pierce after the 2005 season?

Finally, if Ainge did trade Pierce, it would've been an even longer rebuild which means that the magical 2007 offseason and 2007-08 season never happens.

Chris Paul.

Now the question is how much different would've things unfolded in that alternate universe?

[Walker Wiggle]

Two different scenarios.

Kyrie is set to become a free agent, Paul wasn't.

Also, Paul had more value to the Celts than he would have for any other team so the Celts wouldn't have gotten a good enough return. Realistically, what could the Celts have gotten in return for Pierce after the 2005 season?

Finally, if Ainge did trade Pierce, it would've been an even longer rebuild which means that the magical 2007 offseason and 2007-08 season never happens.

That's all well and good and I don't disagree with the above. But my original point still stands: This franchise was patient with a 27-year-old prima donna superstar in the 2000s, despite fans' exasperation with him, and that patience paid off and now he's celebrated as one of the all-time great Celtics. That's all. Just something to think about when it comes to the discussion on Irving happening right now.

[Moranis]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

Or if KG doesn't get hurt that night in Utah, it might be more than 1 title with Pierce.  Remember that as well.

Sure, plenty of what ifs, but Chris Paul has ended up with HOF career and is obviously significantly younger than Paul Pierce.  And obviously there is no guarantee that CP stayed the whole time and how things would have shaken out, but if I could go back in time to the 2005 draft and knew nothing other than CP would end up with a HOF career and PP would have a normal career arc, I, without question and 100% of the time, would have chosen CP over PP going forward.  100% of the time.

[Kuberski33]

Interesting discussion. As WalkerWiggle pointed out that was I think Pierce's lowest point in Boston as a player (the stabbing was another issue entirely) but a lot of people did want him gone after that.  Toine was the leader of that team but he aggravated many (especially older) fans with his volume 3 pt shooting.  Some hated the Wiggle too but it was the 3 pt shooting that really sent people over the edge.

There is a parallel with Kyrie but he still feels like a rental.  With Pierce it was like 'is this guy ever going to grow up' because we had him from the start. 

I just think there are no guarantees that Irving changes his tune.  But if he does re-sign here long term, I think they can still make it work - with a different roster of surrounding talent.

[PhoSita]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

Or if KG doesn't get hurt that night in Utah, it might be more than 1 title with Pierce.  Remember that as well.

Sure, plenty of what ifs, but Chris Paul has ended up with HOF career and is obviously significantly younger than Paul Pierce.  And obviously there is no guarantee that CP stayed the whole time and how things would have shaken out, but if I could go back in time to the 2005 draft and knew nothing other than CP would end up with a HOF career and PP would have a normal career arc, I, without question and 100% of the time, would have chosen CP over PP going forward.  100% of the time.

What if they had traded for Paul, and as a result they never were in a position to trade for Garnett?


They probably don't even win one title in that scenario.  CP probably still ends up going to another team in 2012 / 2013.

[gpap]

Two different scenarios.

Kyrie is set to become a free agent, Paul wasn't.

Also, Paul had more value to the Celts than he would have for any other team so the Celts wouldn't have gotten a good enough return. Realistically, what could the Celts have gotten in return for Pierce after the 2005 season?

Finally, if Ainge did trade Pierce, it would've been an even longer rebuild which means that the magical 2007 offseason and 2007-08 season never happens.

That's all well and good and I don't disagree with the above. But my original point still stands: This franchise was patient with a 27-year-old prima donna superstar in the 2000s, despite fans' exasperation with him, and that patience paid off and now he's celebrated as one of the all-time great Celtics. That's all. Just something to think about when it comes to the discussion on Irving happening right now.

I understand the comparison.

I also think what helped Pierce mature is having 2 vets like KG and Ray.

So...it looks like Kyrie could use another veteran on the team with more wisdom to talk some sense into him.

I am just not sure who that veteran could be. You would think Al Horford, but Horford strikes me as the quiet type who probably doesn't want the task of trying to mentor Kyrie.

I also feel however, that Paul always wanted to be a Celtic. I know throughout his career, he considered the idea of asking for a trade but it was only because he was tired of Ainge's rebuilding BS and really wanted to win.

I don't think Kyrie wants to be a Celtic beyond this season (though I guess time will tell in free agency.)

[gpap]

If Chris Paul had been on this team the last decade+ it might have more than 1 title.  Just remember that as well.

Or if KG doesn't get hurt that night in Utah, it might be more than 1 title with Pierce.  Remember that as well.

Sure, plenty of what ifs, but Chris Paul has ended up with HOF career and is obviously significantly younger than Paul Pierce.  And obviously there is no guarantee that CP stayed the whole time and how things would have shaken out, but if I could go back in time to the 2005 draft and knew nothing other than CP would end up with a HOF career and PP would have a normal career arc, I, without question and 100% of the time, would have chosen CP over PP going forward.  100% of the time.

What if they had traded for Paul, and as a result they never were in a position to trade for Garnett?


They probably don't even win one title in that scenario.  CP probably still ends up going to another team in 2012 / 2013.

I do believe if we ended up with the #1 pick in the 2007 lottery, that Ainge would've drafted Durant and probably traded Pierce.

He probably would've built around Durant, Jefferson, Rondo, Perkins, Tony Allen and Delonte West.

So, getting the 5th pick ended up being a blessing in disguise.

Sure, we would've had Durant as our franchise player for the next 10-12 years and a much longer window but I'll still take the championship in '07/08.