Off season thread

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I've said this in the recent game threads, but I might as well say it here, too: I don't care what the Celtics do this offseason, and I also don't think it matters what they do.

I don't care, because this team has been such a HUGE disappointment—don't know if I can emphasize that enough—that I feel robbed and cheated as a fan. I don't really care who's responsible for the hype, but this team was CLEARLY overhyped. The Celtics basically just wasted a whole season, and wasted my time. They could dump or trade the whole team and start five rookies next season, for all I care. In fact, that might be better, because I'd have zero expectations.

I don't think it matters what they do—re-sign Kyrie or let him walk, trade for AD or don't—because in any of those scenarios, the Cs aren't even close to being a legit title contender. They're probably a better "team" without Kyrie's antics, but him walking leaves them without a superstar, which teams need in order to win titles in today's NBA. Maybe they get their superstar in AD, but that would kinda gut the team, plus he's kinda injury prone, and he's never led a team far. If they don't keep Kyrie AND they don't get AD, we're looking at a (likely) starting lineup of still-recovering Hayward, aging Horford, injury-prone Smart, and not-likely-to-be-superstars Tatum and Brown—a good team, but far from true contention.

Danny missed the boat on Giannis; he may as well start up the tank in hopes of landing the next superstar who'll be favored by the refs, because it sure as heck isn't anyone on the current roster.

[RPGenerate]

Re-sign Kyrie, go all-out for Anthony Davis, and sign a good veteran point-guard (think DJ Augustin). Getting rid of Tatum and Rozier could balance the whole team. I'm not gonna spout this defeatist, "woah is me" garbage that I'm seeing from a lot of people here. What's even the point of watching sports if that's gonna be your attitude? I think some people need to take step back from the cliff.

[gouki88]

Re-sign Kyrie, go all-out for Anthony Davis, and sign a good veteran point-guard (think DJ Augustin). Getting rid of Tatum and Rozier could balance the whole team. I'm not gonna spout this defeatist, "woah is me" garbage that I'm seeing from a lot of people here. What's even the point of watching sports if that's gonna be your attitude? I think some people need to take step back from the cliff.

100% agree. Toronto without Kawhi, Milwaukee without Lopez, Mirotic and potentially Middleton & Philly potentially without Butler and Harris makes the East wide wide open.

If we get AD and re-sign Kyrie we are night and day ahead of the pack here. And that's proven star talent, rather than young guys with inflated egos. I wonder if Stevens is the right coach for that group though

[ozgod]

Re-sign Kyrie, go all-out for Anthony Davis, and sign a good veteran point-guard (think DJ Augustin). Getting rid of Tatum and Rozier could balance the whole team. I'm not gonna spout this defeatist, "woah is me" garbage that I'm seeing from a lot of people here. What's even the point of watching sports if that's gonna be your attitude? I think some people need to take step back from the cliff.

I agree, it's a little early to be slitting wrists. This season has been a disappointment but at least we're in a position to be able to make changes, not every other team can say that. We have assets to try to swing for the fences and go for another star, we have promising young players we can build around otherwise. I'm pretty sure Danny was looking beyond this season when he decided to keep everyone together even though it became obvious the depth and the inability of the players to deal with the minutes issue was affecting the team. He wanted as many assets as possible to make a deal end of season.

Despite all that's happened I think Kyrie stays. Forget about the damage to his rep if he leaves, I don't think he cares about that...I still think this is the best option for him long term. A team run by a good organization, by owners willing to spend money, and with assets.

The only scenario where I see him leaving is if he has lost faith in Danny and Brad. Because the players around him can be changed, the style of play can be changed to accommodate him better. Brad developed a game plan that maximized IT's strengths and minimized his deficiencies, he can do the same for Kyrie if that's what it takes. (Now it might not be a style of play that people here on the forum will enjoy but that's another story.)

But if he's lost faith in Danny to build/fix the roster, or in Brad's ability to get the most out of the roster, then I think he's gone. And if so good luck to him. We build around who we have. But if he stays, and we get AD, and we build a more traditional 2 superstar, 2 solid supporting players, and a bunch of role players who know and accept their role we won't have anywhere near the amount of angst and discontent that we've had around the team all year.

The real question is: is Kyrie the right player to build this team around? Even if we added AD, and we traded away JB or JT and Smart, and let Rozier walk? Let's say our team was Kyrie, AD, Gordon, Al, Jaylen and on the bench we had Baynes, Theis, Mook and another couple of role players? Is Kyrie going to be the right leader for that team?

It's funny, we all talk about how Kyrie has been moody this season and how he's struggled to show leadership, motivate his teammates, etc...but how come this wasn't a problem last season? It's not like he missed the entire season, he played 60+ games and under his "leadership" the team was 1st seed for a good portion of the season and ended up as the 2nd seed, and he was part of that resilient team that had so many comebacks from double digit deficits. Maybe memory fails me but I don't remember anywhere near as much drama last year as this year.

Maybe last year everyone did look up to him as the leader, but then he got injured and they made it to the ECF anyway, and that made him insecure, because you can't tell the team "this is how you prepare for playoffs" when they've already got to the ECF without you. That could be where the whole "young guys vs vets" thing started from. Same for Gordon, he's supposed to be a vet but I don't think he knows what his place is in the hierarchy.

Those are all things to think about after we get eliminated by the Bucks on Wednesday  In the meantime things could be worse, we could be the Lakers 

[bopna]

Trade Hayward for a bag of chips..

Even freaking Pat Connaught on has outplayed our precious max player who should not be given a pass anymore from his injury.. Unacceptable that he is paid so much money to score 2 points in a life and death playoff game

[gouki88]

Trade Hayward for a bag of chips..

Even freaking Pat Connaught on has outplayed our precious max player who should not be given a pass anymore from his injury.. Unacceptable that he is paid so much money to score 2 points in a life and death playoff game

Then why would literally any team trade for him?

[ozgod]

Trade Hayward for a bag of chips..

Even freaking Pat Connaught on has outplayed our precious max player who should not be given a pass anymore from his injury.. Unacceptable that he is paid so much money to score 2 points in a life and death playoff game

Then why would literally any team trade for him?

Trading an asset when it's worth the least might make people feel good but won't really help us. We're stuck with Hayward for the foreseeable future. Which honestly isn't such a bad thing to me. Let's see how he goes after a full offseason under his belt. If he doesn't improve then we can trade him because he would be an expiring contract which would have some value for teams who want to create cap space.

[LilRip]

Said this on another thread but C’s management really needs to start reevaluating how they want to build this contender.

Now to add detail to that: I think this team has a few scorers too many. We have Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Rozier, and Morris as scoring talent. We need more Smart and Baynes-type of players on this team. Guys whose primary talent is bringing toughness and energy.

That said, among that pool, I wouldn’t mind losing Tatum and Rozier. That ties in nicely of our need to consolidate talent. I think the chemistry issues have led us to underutilizing almost everyone, except maybe outside of Horford.

AD’s name has floated around for forever and that’s honestly an interesting scenario. If we might need to give up Brown (and acquire a future draft pick or 2 in doing so), I’ll probably be ok with that.

So what could next years team look like:
Starters: Kyrie, Smart, Hayward, Horford, AD
Bench: pass first PG, 3&D wing (Semi? Idk), Morris, Baynes
Deep bench: Williams, Theis, shooting wing x2, backup PG, bruiser big or forward

[gouki88]

Trade Hayward for a bag of chips..

Even freaking Pat Connaught on has outplayed our precious max player who should not be given a pass anymore from his injury.. Unacceptable that he is paid so much money to score 2 points in a life and death playoff game

Then why would literally any team trade for him?

Trading an asset when it's worth the least might make people feel good but won't really help us. We're stuck with Hayward for the foreseeable future. Which honestly isn't such a bad thing to me. Let's see how he goes after a full offseason under his belt. If he doesn't improve then we can trade him because he would be an expiring contract which would have some value for teams who want to create cap space.

Psh, stop having perspective and the ability to think long-term! It doesn't fit surrounded by all these hot takes.

I don't get why we would move him now. A pipe-dream sign & trade for Durant or Kawhi is not happening folks. People wouldn't want Hayward now.

It's in our best interest to keep him anyway. He can only get better, so he can a) become a good contributor on this team or b) turn into a valuable trade piece

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Said this on another thread but C’s management really needs to start reevaluating how they want to build this contender.

Now to add detail to that: I think this team has a few scorers too many. We have Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Rozier, and Morris as scoring talent. We need more Smart and Baynes-type of players on this team. Guys whose primary talent is bringing toughness and energy.

That said, among that pool, I wouldn’t mind losing Tatum and Rozier. That ties in nicely of our need to consolidate talent. I think the chemistry issues have led us to underutilizing almost everyone, except maybe outside of Horford.

AD’s name has floated around for forever and that’s honestly an interesting scenario. If we might need to give up Brown (and acquire a future draft pick or 2 in doing so), I’ll probably be ok with that.

So what could next years team look like:
Starters: Kyrie, Smart, Hayward, Horford, AD
Bench: pass first PG, 3&D wing (Semi? Idk), Morris, Baynes
Deep bench: Williams, Theis, shooting wing x2, backup PG, bruiser big or forward

I honestly don’t see why people keep inserting Hayward into this future starting role that he obviously doesn’t deserve “here”. It’s like constantly trying to fit the wrong puzzle piece.  Y’all just need to know when to let it go with Celtic players sometimes. Will he get better?  Maybe, shoot I’ll even say probably but we don’t have time for his rebuild.

We are trying to get banner 18 soon as possible and Gordon looks to be another season project. I literally saw a play where he got 2 off ball screens, got the Ball and didn’t fire. This Celtic pressure isn’t for him right now in his career.

I mean did y’all not see him start too early earlier in the season? I’m just so confused what y’all are actually seeing that makes you think he’s a starter on that roster? That’s a roster full of runners and up tempo guys, how is Gordon any of that? He needs a shower, more half court of an offense.

[LilRip]

Said this on another thread but C’s management really needs to start reevaluating how they want to build this contender.

Now to add detail to that: I think this team has a few scorers too many. We have Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Rozier, and Morris as scoring talent. We need more Smart and Baynes-type of players on this team. Guys whose primary talent is bringing toughness and energy.

That said, among that pool, I wouldn’t mind losing Tatum and Rozier. That ties in nicely of our need to consolidate talent. I think the chemistry issues have led us to underutilizing almost everyone, except maybe outside of Horford.

AD’s name has floated around for forever and that’s honestly an interesting scenario. If we might need to give up Brown (and acquire a future draft pick or 2 in doing so), I’ll probably be ok with that.

So what could next years team look like:
Starters: Kyrie, Smart, Hayward, Horford, AD
Bench: pass first PG, 3&D wing (Semi? Idk), Morris, Baynes
Deep bench: Williams, Theis, shooting wing x2, backup PG, bruiser big or forward

I honestly don’t see why people keep inserting Hayward into this future starting role that he obviously doesn’t deserve “here”. It’s like constantly trying to fit the wrong puzzle piece.  Y’all just need to know when to let it go with Celtic players sometimes. Will he get better?  Maybe, shoot I’ll even say probably but we don’t have time for his rebuild.

We are trying to get banner 18 soon as possible and Gordon looks to be another season project. I literally saw a play where he got 2 off ball screens, got the Ball and didn’t fire. This Celtic pressure isn’t for him right now in his career.

I mean did y’all not see him start too early earlier in the season? I’m just so confused what y’all are actually seeing that makes you think he’s a starter on that roster? That’s a roster full of runners and up tempo guys, how is Gordon any of that? He needs a shower, more half court of an offense.

Because we don’t know if there’s a market for him.

Also, I think he’s the least assertive among our wings. Brown is going to play his game almost no matter who’s on the floor. Tatum will also won possessions if he wants. Kudos to Morris. Hayward defers the most and moves the ball the most. Is that coaching staff’s direction? Maybe. Maybe he’s the most coachable. But I think with less ball hungry guys on the floor, Hayward will perform muuuuuuch better.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Said this on another thread but C’s management really needs to start reevaluating how they want to build this contender.

Now to add detail to that: I think this team has a few scorers too many. We have Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Rozier, and Morris as scoring talent. We need more Smart and Baynes-type of players on this team. Guys whose primary talent is bringing toughness and energy.

That said, among that pool, I wouldn’t mind losing Tatum and Rozier. That ties in nicely of our need to consolidate talent. I think the chemistry issues have led us to underutilizing almost everyone, except maybe outside of Horford.

AD’s name has floated around for forever and that’s honestly an interesting scenario. If we might need to give up Brown (and acquire a future draft pick or 2 in doing so), I’ll probably be ok with that.

So what could next years team look like:
Starters: Kyrie, Smart, Hayward, Horford, AD
Bench: pass first PG, 3&D wing (Semi? Idk), Morris, Baynes
Deep bench: Williams, Theis, shooting wing x2, backup PG, bruiser big or forward

I honestly don’t see why people keep inserting Hayward into this future starting role that he obviously doesn’t deserve “here”. It’s like constantly trying to fit the wrong puzzle piece.  Y’all just need to know when to let it go with Celtic players sometimes. Will he get better?  Maybe, shoot I’ll even say probably but we don’t have time for his rebuild.

We are trying to get banner 18 soon as possible and Gordon looks to be another season project. I literally saw a play where he got 2 off ball screens, got the Ball and didn’t fire. This Celtic pressure isn’t for him right now in his career.

I mean did y’all not see him start too early earlier in the season? I’m just so confused what y’all are actually seeing that makes you think he’s a starter on that roster? That’s a roster full of runners and up tempo guys, how is Gordon any of that? He needs a shower, more half court of an offense.

Because we don’t know if there’s a market for him.

Also, I think he’s the least assertive among our wings. Brown is going to play his game almost no matter who’s on the floor. Tatum will also won possessions if he wants. Kudos to Morris. Hayward defers the most and moves the ball the most. Is that coaching staff’s direction? Maybe. Maybe he’s the most coachable. But I think with less ball hungry guys on the floor, Hayward will perform muuuuuuch better.

There was a market for Anthony Bennett, There was a market for for Paul George, there was a market for Kawhi, there was a market for Cousins, there is always a market for these players!

There are a number of teams who are not FA designations who are dying for at least POTENTIAL. Or are knocking on the door to something and would absolutely love to have Hayward as their roster grows. Mavs, Orl, Cavs, Suns, Indiana... like cmon people that’s a non issue.

If our target is AD the Hayward is either on the bench or off the team. Starting just isn’t in the cards for him, he is going to have to change his game to adapt to his new self. It’s going to be a rough road for him, but I can’t wait to see he’s development... in another jersey.

[gouki88]

Said this on another thread but C’s management really needs to start reevaluating how they want to build this contender.

Now to add detail to that: I think this team has a few scorers too many. We have Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Rozier, and Morris as scoring talent. We need more Smart and Baynes-type of players on this team. Guys whose primary talent is bringing toughness and energy.

That said, among that pool, I wouldn’t mind losing Tatum and Rozier. That ties in nicely of our need to consolidate talent. I think the chemistry issues have led us to underutilizing almost everyone, except maybe outside of Horford.

AD’s name has floated around for forever and that’s honestly an interesting scenario. If we might need to give up Brown (and acquire a future draft pick or 2 in doing so), I’ll probably be ok with that.

So what could next years team look like:
Starters: Kyrie, Smart, Hayward, Horford, AD
Bench: pass first PG, 3&D wing (Semi? Idk), Morris, Baynes
Deep bench: Williams, Theis, shooting wing x2, backup PG, bruiser big or forward

I honestly don’t see why people keep inserting Hayward into this future starting role that he obviously doesn’t deserve “here”. It’s like constantly trying to fit the wrong puzzle piece.  Y’all just need to know when to let it go with Celtic players sometimes. Will he get better?  Maybe, shoot I’ll even say probably but we don’t have time for his rebuild.

We are trying to get banner 18 soon as possible and Gordon looks to be another season project. I literally saw a play where he got 2 off ball screens, got the Ball and didn’t fire. This Celtic pressure isn’t for him right now in his career.

I mean did y’all not see him start too early earlier in the season? I’m just so confused what y’all are actually seeing that makes you think he’s a starter on that roster? That’s a roster full of runners and up tempo guys, how is Gordon any of that? He needs a shower, more half court of an offense.

Because we don’t know if there’s a market for him.

Also, I think he’s the least assertive among our wings. Brown is going to play his game almost no matter who’s on the floor. Tatum will also won possessions if he wants. Kudos to Morris. Hayward defers the most and moves the ball the most. Is that coaching staff’s direction? Maybe. Maybe he’s the most coachable. But I think with less ball hungry guys on the floor, Hayward will perform muuuuuuch better.

There was a market for Anthony Bennett, There was a market for for Paul George, there was a market for Kawhi, there was a market for Cousins, there is always a market for these players!

There are a number of teams who are not FA designations who are dying for at least POTENTIAL. Or are knocking on the door to something and would absolutely love to have Hayward as their roster grows. Mavs, Orl, Cavs, Suns, Indiana... like cmon people that’s a non issue.

If our target is AD the Hayward is either on the bench or off the team. Starting just isn’t in the cards for him, he is going to have to change his game to adapt to his new self. It’s going to be a rough road for him, but I can’t wait to see he’s development... in another jersey.

Lol, what? None of those players you listed were in comparable positions to Hayward, and I can't imagine why any of those teams would have interest in him, unless Indiana strikes out in free agency and wants the hometown kid.

And considering that a trade for AD will include one of Tatum (hopefully) or Brown, then I have no idea why he wouldn't start

[Celtics4ever]

Eh, I'm sure pretty much everyone is not in denial about the Bucks being the better team.

Yeah, I think most of us in our hearts knew this was going to be an uphill battle.   We could see after the play this year that we were pretenders, not contenders.

[celticinorlando]

Bucks have a better bench and consistent shot makers from outside. They ARE a good shooting team...esp from 3. Boston has a bunch of chuckers from three.

Try to resign Kyrie to try to get AD. That should be plan A. Find shooters to go with them.

I do not see Kyrie resigning with the team as is. He is going to want AD or someone big to help. If he walks, just go young.

Hayward hope he can return to form. Allow Rozier to walk and Let GH be a point forward. He is best in that role.

Use the picks on players or package them for a vet/to move up