23/24 Celtics vs. 16-18 Warriors Starting Lineups

[RodyTur10]

If we're making comparisons. All Star games with four players from one team and their record at the break.

2005-06 Detroit Pistons (42-9): Billups, Hamilton, R.Wallace, B.Wallace
2010-11 Boston Celtics (40-14): Rondo, R.Allen, Pierce, Garnett
2014-15 Atlanta Hawks (43-11): Teague, Korver, Millsap, Horford
2016-17 Golden State Warriors (47-9): Curry, Thompson, Durant, Green
2017-18 Golden State Warriors (44-14): Curry, Thompson, Durant, Green

Could this be the first year where a complete starting five makes the All Star game?
I really hope so. In particular White is incredibly undervalued.

Maxey/D.Murray/Young/Lillard(2x), Haliburton, Mitchell, Barnes/Siakam/Bridges, Antetokounmpo, Embiid + Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum and Porzingis

[Roy H.]

We'll see where were are at the end of the season.  As I recall, we started out as a historically good offense last year, too, before regressing somewhat.

Yeah but(basing totally on the eye test) they're not living and dying by the 3. The offense just seems more organized and efficient compared to the last few years. Plus they actually have held onto leads. I don't think last year's team wins that game against Miami.

So far, the mental toughness is showing on the court and not only in the interviews.

I think most of us recall our feelings at the end of last year.  How many of us were questioning that team when they started 18-4 and literally had the best offensive rating of any team in NBA history?

In November last year, we scored 123.8 points per game and had a .604 eFG%, .640 TS%, and were taking 42 3PTs per game.  We averaged 28.6 assists per game and 12.8 turnovers.

This year, in four games, we've scored 127.0 points per game with a .598 eFG% and .638 TS%.  We're taking 41.5 3PTs per game.  We've averaged 24.0 assists per game and 14.0 turnovers.

So, basically, we're starting the year equally as impressively as we did last season.  The efficiency and 3PT volume are almost identical.   The ball movement has perhaps regressed a bit.

Now, we need to figure out how to sustain this level of excellence in the latter part of the season, particularly the playoffs.

[keevsnick]

Starting lineup by EPM from 22-23 (percentile rank included).

Tatum: +5.6 (97%)
Porzingis: +5.1 (96%)
Holiday: +4.9 (95%)
White: +3.7 (94%)
Brown: +2.6 (90%)

Brad just went out there and assembled an entire starting five of impact players. Not really surprising they are going to be good. But I'm going to need to see them play some better teams before I start comparing the team to all-time great lineups. The Heat are 1-4 and might just be bad this year. The Wizards are 1-3 and had zero centers and will be bad this year. The pacers might be good, but not without Haliburton. The Knicks are mid. Garnted, you can only play who is in front of you, but still.

[A Future of Stevens]

In regards to a starting 5 making the all star team:

I think for that to happen in ANY year, that conference would have to be relatively watered down. Think the Lebron East when the Hawks won 60 games.

I believe the league has talent coming out of its ears at this point. Even most bad teams have one building block type player now.

[Vermont Green]

I realize it was a cap issue most likely but if we could have kept Grant Williams this team would be just one more depth player away (to have a ridiculous top eight rotation of players) and would be an absolute juggernaut.

And it’s not because Grant had 25 last night. He was just the perfect fit as the guy to take the tough guy mantle from Smart, versatile on D and a smart glue guy.  I was very surprised when they didn’t sign him.


This said, if we can find two more guys through the trade deadline, using our trade exceptions and/or the buyout market who can really contribute we’re likely to put up a ring this year as long as everyone stays relatively healthy - especially Porzingis.

I’d like us to make a move for Drummond. He would just be nice insurance against a Porzingis injury. We’d have to adjust our offense  but it’s doable and he’s a high availability player physically - always has been.

I wouldn’t mind making a move for JaMychal Green either.

I’m convinced Stevens will get a hood player who is being bought out as anyone half decent would surely like to join this group and have a great shot at a ring - fingers crossed we add some more depth.

Keep in mind that at the time the decision was made to not match the Grant contract offer, we had Rob Williams on the team and couldn't have imagined that we would trade Rob as part of a deal for Jrue Holiday.  Grant's absence is magnified now but our big rotation looked fine before the Holiday trade.

I think the Grant hole will be filled in time.  Grant is doing well so far in DAL, better than I expected.  But even last season, where he was given a big opportunity due to Rob Williams being injured to start the season, he was 8 pts and 4.5 rebs in 26 minutes.  That is not exactly lighting it on fire.

Now the caveat with that is his very good 3P% (39.5% last season) but he could only shoot if he was very open and if he was exactly in the corner.  So far he is doing really well with more shot attempts but is Grant really the guy you want taking 9-10 shots a game?  You wouldn't want that on this Celtics team.  Right now, he is the 4th leading scorer on DAL.  He is doing very well with his opportunity, good for him.

[Moranis]

Again the Warriors had 2 of the 15 greatest players in the sports history that were both probably top 3 players in the sport at the time. They had a DPOY in his prime.  They added a multi-time all star that is a top 10 shooter in league history. Those 2 guys were top 20 to 25 players in the league.  They won 73 games the year before and then added Durant. 

There isn't a team in the league that comes close to that, but if you had to pick 1, it would be the Bucks with Giannis and Lillard (Curry/Durant), Lopez (Dray), and Middleton (Klay).  The Bucks are no where near as good though, especially defensively.

If you see this Boston team and think they are comparable to one of the 10 best teams in history, then you are only setting yourself up to be let down. 

[Kernewek]

It’s been four games, friends. This is hilariously preemptive.

[Donoghus]

It’s been four games, friends. This is hilariously preemptive.

Its the Celticsblog/CelticsStrong way.

[BitterJim]

Again the Warriors had 2 of the 15 greatest players in the sports history that were both probably top 3 players in the sport at the time. They had a DPOY in his prime.  They added a multi-time all star that is a top 10 shooter in league history. Those 2 guys were top 20 to 25 players in the league.  They won 73 games the year before and then added Durant. 

There isn't a team in the league that comes close to that, but if you had to pick 1, it would be the Bucks with Giannis and Lillard (Curry/Durant), Lopez (Dray), and Middleton (Klay).  The Bucks are no where near as good though, especially defensively.

If you see this Boston team and think they are comparable to one of the 10 best teams in history, then you are only setting yourself up to be let down.

Comparing current Middleton to prime Klay is a huge insult to Klay

[Moranis]

Again the Warriors had 2 of the 15 greatest players in the sports history that were both probably top 3 players in the sport at the time. They had a DPOY in his prime.  They added a multi-time all star that is a top 10 shooter in league history. Those 2 guys were top 20 to 25 players in the league.  They won 73 games the year before and then added Durant. 

There isn't a team in the league that comes close to that, but if you had to pick 1, it would be the Bucks with Giannis and Lillard (Curry/Durant), Lopez (Dray), and Middleton (Klay).  The Bucks are no where near as good though, especially defensively.

If you see this Boston team and think they are comparable to one of the 10 best teams in history, then you are only setting yourself up to be let down.

Comparing current Middleton to prime Klay is a huge insult to Klay

Absolutely.  Lillard is no where near Durant (or Curry) and Lopez isn't at that prime Draymond level defensively either.  But that was the point I was making.  That GS team for those 2 years is one of the best teams the sport has ever seen.  No team in the league right now comes close to that level even with Zaza Pachulia as the 5th starter (they phased Zaza out in the playoffs the 2nd year and started Looney or McGee for the most part, but Zaza started the 1st year and started most of the regular season the 2nd). 

[jpotter33]

https://x.com/hoopsempire_/status/1764469527021064563?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

The Celtics are now tied for the fourth best all-time net rating at 11.6. Who are they tied with - the 16-17 Warriors.

75% of the way through the season, I guess this idea wasn’t so crazy after all 

[Kernewek]

https://x.com/hoopsempire_/status/1764469527021064563?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

The Celtics are now tied for the fourth best all-time net rating at 11.6. Who are they tied with - the 16-17 Warriors.

75% of the way through the season, I guess this idea wasn’t so crazy after all 

Imagine how they'd be with a good coach.

[liam]

https://x.com/hoopsempire_/status/1764469527021064563?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

The Celtics are now tied for the fourth best all-time net rating at 11.6. Who are they tied with - the 16-17 Warriors.

75% of the way through the season, I guess this idea wasn’t so crazy after all 

Imagine how they'd be with a good coach.

They have an excellent coach. I think he'll be the coach of the year.

[scaryjerry]

Get back to me if they win the title. Far from a guarantee.

[Vermont Green]

https://x.com/hoopsempire_/status/1764469527021064563?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

The Celtics are now tied for the fourth best all-time net rating at 11.6. Who are they tied with - the 16-17 Warriors.

75% of the way through the season, I guess this idea wasn’t so crazy after all 

Imagine how they'd be with a good coach.

They have an excellent coach. I think he'll be the coach of the year.

I think he is being sarcastic.  It is interesting that Steve Kerr was the coach of the year for 2015-16 season but not after that.  Last season, Mazzulla was 3rd in the coach of the year balloting.  I think all would agree that he is a better coach this season than last, so....

Anyway, the coach aside, I look at the team comparison starting with this:

Tatum + Brown = Durant + Thompson

I see them as very equal so you can narrow the debate to the rest of the team.  I am not that big on Draymond Green but how about if we declare this additional equivalency:

Holiday = Green

I know Holiday and Green play different positions but I think this is still fair, if anything, I am being favorable to Green.  That leaves:

White + Porzingis vs. Curry + Looney

Curry is much better than White but Porzingis is much better than Looney.  But which is more better?  I think you have to give the edge to White + Porzingis.