Do the Celtics need a #1 Point Guard: NBA Finals Reaction

[td450]

I don't think we need a starting PG.  Marcus led the team just fine this year, including a 3-month stretch where we were the best offense in the NBA. 

It only makes sense to bring in a guy like Brogdon if Ime is 100% comfortable with Tatum as our starting PF.

Timelord / Horford
Tatum
Brown
Smart / White
Brogdon

I'd be okay with that lineup, but it would create some other holes on the roster.  We'd need to send out $18 million in salary to bring back Brogdon, so I guess we'd be looking at Theis + Pritchard + Nesmith + Stauskas + one of Fitts / Morgan / Hauser?

The question is whether Ime 100% comfortable with Tatum and secondarily Smart being able to be the team's decision makers and ball handlers in big games under playoff pressure. Plenty of teams have rosters that work in the regular season, when the pressure is less.

Unless we blow things up, Tatum is going to be the #1 decision maker. Can Smart cover for the rough patches in the biggest games? Can he see where the doubles are coming from on Tatum and make the defense pay? That's different from shooting OK, or not making lots of mistakes. Smart was unable to do that this year.

[dannyboy35]

  My GUESS is the Celtics organization is kind of going all in on Tatum being the gif the most part primary handler with Jaylen doing a lot of that as well so I think more than shot creation it’s shot making they’ll go for.  I think Smart had a great year but when everyone is all grabby in the finals his defense isn’t that much more effective than some lesser players. I think the Hays clearly need to work on bsll handling but they need a lot of space. 1 non shooter in Timelord should be it. If we’re really hoping for titles the Celtics need 3 point sharp shooters. Easier said than done , I know. But this is what I’m thinking.

[ozgod]

Here's what Brad had to say about getting a playmaking point guard.

“I think we need a little bit more playmaking. Yeah, I think that’s real,” said Stevens Tuesday. “There is no question that in this league the more guys that can make a play offensively, the better.

“I think the challenge again is whatever you do around the margins of our roster — we have a unique identity, and we have a uniqueness in our size and our ability to be versatile all across the board. We have to take all of that into account when we’re adding to our team. If we can maintain that and add some playmaking, without a doubt you want to do that.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/06/21/sports/celtics-might-be-tempted-run-it-back-theres-one-clear-move-brad-stevens-make-this-summer/

[Surferdad]

Here's what Brad had to say about getting a playmaking point guard.

“I think we need a little bit more playmaking. Yeah, I think that’s real,” said Stevens Tuesday. “There is no question that in this league the more guys that can make a play offensively, the better.

“I think the challenge again is whatever you do around the margins of our roster — we have a unique identity, and we have a uniqueness in our size and our ability to be versatile all across the board. We have to take all of that into account when we’re adding to our team. If we can maintain that and add some playmaking, without a doubt you want to do that.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/06/21/sports/celtics-might-be-tempted-run-it-back-theres-one-clear-move-brad-stevens-make-this-summer/

Not sure if he means playmaking for others or themselves.  BIG difference.

[vjcsmoke]

Looks like Brad Stevens agreed with me.  We land Malcolm Brogdan in a big big trade.  I love this move!  This really fills a hole and kicks Smart to a bench role where he's really better for us coming off the second unit!

[jambr380]

Looks like Brad Stevens agreed with me.  We land Malcolm Brogdan in a big big trade.  I love this move!  This really fills a hole and kicks Smart to a bench role where he's really better for us coming off the second unit!

Dude, Smart is definitely not coming off the bench. More likely, Horford is now coming off the bench and Brogdon will be starting at SG.

[vjcsmoke]

Looks like Brad Stevens agreed with me.  We land Malcolm Brogdan in a big big trade.  I love this move!  This really fills a hole and kicks Smart to a bench role where he's really better for us coming off the second unit!

Dude, Smart is definitely not coming off the bench. More likely, Horford is now coming off the bench and Brogdon will be starting at SG.

I see our starting 5 as 1-Brogdan, 2-Jaylen Brown, 3-Tatum, 4-Gallinari, 5-Rob Williams.  You're not going to convince me that Smart is better than Brown at the 2 or Brogdan at the 1.  He would give us a bigger boost coming off the bench. 

I've never bought into the idea that Smart can be the #1 point on a championship roster.  His decision-making goes to pot just way too often in big moments, especially in the NBA Finals.

For Mitchell, who won NBA Coach of the year in 2007, Curry made life hard for the Celtics’ defense and even pushed Marcus Smart to “quit.”

“Steph Curry, to me, was the toughest player on the floor mentally and physically. He kicked Marcus Smart mentally, physically and he made him quit,” Mitchell explained before detailing a specific play that showed Curry’s toughness, per SiriusXM NBA Radio.

Article: https://clutchpoints.com/warriors-news-stephen-curry-made-marcus-smart-quit-in-nba-finals-per-sam-mitchell/

[gouki88]

Looks like Brad Stevens agreed with me.  We land Malcolm Brogdan in a big big trade.  I love this move!  This really fills a hole and kicks Smart to a bench role where he's really better for us coming off the second unit!

Dude, Smart is definitely not coming off the bench. More likely, Horford is now coming off the bench and Brogdon will be starting at SG.

I see our starting 5 as 1-Brogdan, 2-Jaylen Brown, 3-Tatum, 4-Gallinari, 5-Rob Williams.  You're not going to convince me that Smart is better than Brown at the 2 or Brogdan at the 1.  He would give us a bigger boost coming off the bench. 

I've never bought into the idea that Smart can be the #1 point on a championship roster.  His decision-making goes to pot just way too often in big moments, especially in the NBA Finals.

For Mitchell, who won NBA Coach of the year in 2007, Curry made life hard for the Celtics’ defense and even pushed Marcus Smart to “quit.”

“Steph Curry, to me, was the toughest player on the floor mentally and physically. He kicked Marcus Smart mentally, physically and he made him quit,” Mitchell explained before detailing a specific play that showed Curry’s toughness, per SiriusXM NBA Radio.

Article: https://clutchpoints.com/warriors-news-stephen-curry-made-marcus-smart-quit-in-nba-finals-per-sam-mitchell/

Smart is not being benched, and that Sam Mitchell article is just bogus

[vjcsmoke]

I never said Smart was going to be benched.  I said this kicks him to coming off the bench as our 6th man.  I believe he's more valuable for us in that role.  He's not suited to be a true #1 starting PG.  But he's going to offer a lot of value as the leader of the 2nd unit.  Ime runs like an 8 man rotation in the playoffs and Marcus will very much be  a big part of that.  I just feel the Finals exposed Marcus inability to be the starting PG for the Celtics in a championship run.  His decision-making is just not good enough.  He makes too many dumb plays and turnovers in critical situations.

[gouki88]

I never said Smart was going to be benched.  I said this kicks him to coming off the bench as our 6th man.  I believe he's more valuable for us in that role.  He's not suited to be a true #1 starting PG.  But he's going to offer a lot of value as the leader of the 2nd unit.  Ime runs like an 8 man rotation in the playoffs and Marcus will very much be  a big part of that.  I just feel the Finals exposed Marcus inability to be the starting PG for the Celtics in a championship run.  His decision-making is just not good enough.  He makes too many dumb plays and turnovers in critical situations.

Ime doesn’t agree with you, neither does Brad. Smart and Brogdon have almost identical assist:turnover numbers recently.

[Big333223]

If the Celtics stay committed to the double big lineup, Brogdon will be the one coming off the bench, not Smart.

Anyone calling Brogdon a "true pg" has apparently never watched him play.

I love the move because it gives Boston a killer 3-combo guard rotation of Smart/Brogdon/White. Ime wants the ball to pop and he's got guys to do it now.

[kraidstar]

If the Celtics stay committed to the double big lineup, Brogdon will be the one coming off the bench, not Smart.

Anyone calling Brogdon a "true pg" has apparently never watched him play.

I love the move because it gives Boston a killer 3-combo guard rotation of Smart/Brogdon/White. Ime wants the ball to pop and he's got guys to do it now.

I mean, how many "true point guards" are there in the league anyways? Ball, CP3, Rubio? Harden? Seems to be a dying breed as the style of play has changed.

[Big333223]

If the Celtics stay committed to the double big lineup, Brogdon will be the one coming off the bench, not Smart.

Anyone calling Brogdon a "true pg" has apparently never watched him play.

I love the move because it gives Boston a killer 3-combo guard rotation of Smart/Brogdon/White. Ime wants the ball to pop and he's got guys to do it now.

I mean, how many "true point guards" are there in the league anyways? Ball, CP3, Rubio? Harden? Seems to be a dying breed as the style of play has changed.

Definitely. Which is one more reason the calls for a "true pg" don't make much sense.

[Vermont Green]

If the Celtics stay committed to the double big lineup, Brogdon will be the one coming off the bench, not Smart.

Anyone calling Brogdon a "true pg" has apparently never watched him play.

I love the move because it gives Boston a killer 3-combo guard rotation of Smart/Brogdon/White. Ime wants the ball to pop and he's got guys to do it now.

I mean, how many "true point guards" are there in the league anyways? Ball, CP3, Rubio? Harden? Seems to be a dying breed as the style of play has changed.

Definitely. Which is one more reason the calls for a "true pg" don't make much sense.

I totally agree with this.  None of the top playoff teams had a traditional "floor general" type PG other than PHO, and they didn't do so well.  Smart can be the lead ball handler (call it PG if you want) and so couldn't Brogdon (based on his past performance).  I expect Smart to start and Brogdon to come off the bench if for no other reason than minutes management.  The issue with Brogdon is durability.  It is easier to manage that with a bench player.  Plus, we had the best starting line up in the league last season.  Why would we change that?

As to not starting Horford, my first thought is the same as above, why change the best starting line up in the league?  There may be some reasons to not start Horford including minutes management but if they decide to do that (not start Horford), I would see Gallinari as more likely to start in Horford's place than Brogdon.  I am not a small ball guy.  I prefer tall ball.

[nebist]

I posted this in a different setting about a week ago, but it has some analysis of A/TO ratio that seems relevant here. While I mention here that Brogdon is not some big upgrade to Smart, having BOTH of them is a huge upgrade to our team guard depth:

Smart has individual plays that drive people crazy. People focus on those rather than his composite numbers. Smart’s Assist/TO ratio last year was 2.5. That’s 50th in the league across all positions. It’s tied for 13th-15 best among players I would define as a lead guard or primary ball-handler for their team.

Lead guards better than a 2.5 include: Chris Paul (4.4), Dejounte Murray (4.2), Tyrese Maxey (3.4), Terry Rozier (3.3), Tyrese Haliburton (3.2), Jalen Brunson (3.1), Mike Conley (3.0), Kyle Lowry (2., D’Angelo Russell (2., Malcolm Brogdon (2., Fred VanVleet (2.6), Damian Lillard (2.6). That’s 12 starting lead guards with a better A/TO ratio than Smart.

Lead guards same/worse than 2.5 A/TO ratio:
Ricky Rubio (2.5), Jrue Holiday (2.5), CJ McCollum (2.4), LaMelo Ball (2.3), Kyrie Irving (2.3), Trae Young (2.3), James Harden (2.3), Darius Garland (2.3), Cole Anthony (2.2), Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (2.2). I stopped at the top 100.

Overall, I think A/TO ratio is a pretty fair indicator of how effectively a guard is distributing the basketball. Smart is basically middle of the pack in terms of his distribution numbers, which seems accurate to me. People act like he’s “not a PG” in terms of getting others involved, which is just not true in comparison to his peers in the league. He is a subpar shooter but one who is capable of creating his own shot at times. He is obviously elite defensively, one of the best, if not the absolute best, lead guard defenders in the league.

I just don’t see an upgrade. Brogdon is not an upgrade. Brunson is not an upgrade. Those guys are a wash at best.

Dejounte Murray or Tyrese Haliburton could certainly be viewed as upgrades. I don’t see that happening for obvious reasons. Those guys are being counted on by their teams to be franchise players. Smart is our 3rd best player and paid like most good teams’ 4th best player. People that have a problem with him need to reevaluate the facts.

Also, for the record, Derrick White’s A/TO is 2.9, and his added distribution abilities are a big reason why I think Brad targeted him as an upgrade over J-Rich since he is a quality secondary playmaker.