All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[RockinRyA]

Butler acts no different than guys like MJ, Kobe, LeBron...it's just that Jimmy doesn't quite have the talent to get away with acting like those guys.

I've always liked and supported him, but it's getting to the point now where I wouldn't want him on my team.. I'm not sure he's willing to accept that he is a supporting star, not a leading star.

I dunno about that, LeBron is pretty supportive of young teammates in the past. Its the vets that he has a higher standard with.

[10610786d]

In contrast to others here, I am quite a fan of Butler as a person and as a player - maybe I'm missing something.

Let me help you he is a prima dona malcontent.

I mean, the past two teams he was on were both horribly mismanaged teams. The old Bulls teams drafted bad players that don't take charge. KAT and Wiggins to this day are underperforming expectations.

A quick google says he's currently lashing out against Brett Brown for mis-using him on the court. But on the other hand we could see this as the guy speaking his mind.

Then again, it's mostly speculation on my end. We can only see what happens.

In contrast to others here, I am quite a fan of Butler as a person and as a player - maybe I'm missing something.

Let me help you he is a prima dona malcontent.

Seems like Danny and Brad are staying as far away as possible from malcontents. Cousins did not get offer when first traded and The rumored interest of us in Butler never materialized as well. Maybe the fact that Leonard did not get along with the well run Spurs franchise and Pop, led to him not going after him too. Although it did sounds like we tried to get Cousins this year as free agent but he chose GSW but at least that would have been relatively risk free for a one year flyer and no players traded.

Watch Butler end up on the Knicks next year.

Definitely a fan of Ainge's eye in picking high character guys. Guys like E'Twaun Moore and Avery Bradley, and Evan Turner, they have all exceeded expectations in their time here. Even with Darko Milicic, he just ended up retiring.

[Emmette Bryant]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/1/7/18171797/philadelphia-76ers-ben-simmons-jumper

[celticsclay]

Thought this was one pretty well-written. I really can't see a way these three guys are all playing for the 76ers the next 3-5 years.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/1/7/18171626/jimmy-butler-sixers-wolves-chemistry

[celticsclay]

Zach lowe weighs in

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25723296/sixers-fit-great-that-matter

Lot of stuff in here, culminates with him floating a bunch of trades where the Sixers could trade Ben Simmons for a better fitting big 3, but doesn't think any of what he proposes will happen.

[LarBrd33]

I asked Eddie on my podcast....

Who says no?  Ben Simmons + the expirings of chandler and muscala for Bradley Beal.

[footey]

I asked Eddie on my podcast....

Who says no?  Ben Simmons + the expirings of chandler and muscala for Bradley Beal.

Makes no sense, LB.  Simmons and Wall on same team?  No.

Now, Simmons and expirings for Wall makes better sense. 

[gouki88]

I asked Eddie on my podcast....

Who says no?  Ben Simmons + the expirings of chandler and muscala for Bradley Beal.

I’m definitely no fan of Simmons, but this seems like a really interesting move. Only thing is, would Washington want to pair a PG who can’t shoot with their $40m man? I could see Simmons + Wall having some serious spacing issues.

[Monkhouse]

I asked Eddie on my podcast....

Who says no?  Ben Simmons + the expirings of chandler and muscala for Bradley Beal.

Why would the 76ers do this though? Who's replacing Simmons at the point?

[tazzmaniac]

I asked Eddie on my podcast....

Who says no?  Ben Simmons + the expirings of chandler and muscala for Bradley Beal.

Makes no sense, LB.  Simmons and Wall on same team?  No.

Now, Simmons and expirings for Wall makes better sense.

Not for the Sixers (or really anybody).  The Wall contract is probably the worst in the league.  Wall is also out for the rest of the season with a foot injury.  Wall is shooting 30% from 3 this season and is 32% for his career.  He needs the ball in his hands just as much as Simmons.  Wall, Butler and Embiid doesn't make them any more of a contender than Simmons, Butler and Embiid.  Simmons at least is 6 years younger and may improve his game. 
To top off if Butler leaves in free agency, the Sixers would be screwed because Wall's contract would eat up all their cap space.  If Butler stays, they'd have a hard time addressing their lack of depth which is their predominant problem due to lack of cap space.  They may well be paying luxury tax. 

[bdm860]

Thought this was one pretty well-written. I really can't see a way these three guys are all playing for the 76ers the next 3-5 years.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/1/7/18171626/jimmy-butler-sixers-wolves-chemistry

If anything, I think the Butler situation emphasizes how hard it really is to fit multiple stars together.  People assume it's easy, but you got to remember there's only one ball.  Two stars sharing the ball can work (and even then, it doesn't always work out), but when you add that third star in, things get really tricky, as it usually leads to one guy being left out and asked to sit out uninvolved at the perimeter.

I think back when Pierce/Allen/Garnett came together, I remember hearing things like "3 stars have never been able to come together and coexist before, it won't happen in Boston."  And that barely worked out, and part of its demise was due to Allen being unhappy with his role (of course injuries were a bigger reason).

A precursor to those C's teams, was '99 Houston when Pippen joined Barkley and Olajuwon.  That ended in a first round playoff exit and a disgruntled Pippen demanding to be traded.

The Chamberlain/West/Baylor Lakers didn't win it all until Baylor retired 9 games into the '72 season, which coincidentally (or maybe not) started a 33 game win streak immediately after Baylor's early season retirement announcement, and ended with the Lakers historic 69-win season and championship.

Sure there's other Big 3's (Bird/McHale/Parish, Kareem/Magic/Worthy, Duncan/Ginobili/Parker, etc.), but those are usually centered around 1 or 2 alphas + a lesser star(s), rather than 3 guys who all want to be alphas.

There's been a recent trend with it working with the Garnett/Allen/Pierce, followed by the Heat, and now the Warriors.  But it's a really, really tough thing to do. (Surprising fact on the Heat from Zack Lowe followng their 2nd championship: "The Heat were minus-12 with all three stars on the floor against Indiana, and a disastrous minus-27 against San Antonio. Against the best teams they faced, and against the best lineups those teams could put out there, the star-centric model didn’t work very well.")

[LarBrd33]

Whole thing still feels super overblown.  We'll see what happens.  Talent is talent.

[LarBrd33]

Since Butler joined the team:

- Simmons is averaging 17 points, 9 rebounds, 8.1 assists, 1.3 steals with 58% shooting.   

- Embiid is averaging 26 points, 13.5 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.7 blocks with 49% shooting. 

- Reddick is averaging 18.5 points, 2.2 rebounds, 2.5 assists with 47% shooting and 40% from three.   

- Butler is averaging 18.3 points, 4.9 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.9 steals with 47%/39%/86% shooting while averaging 5 less minutes than last season.

Philly didn't have a training camp with Butler.  He's played only 23 games with them.  The team has played at a 57 win pace in those 23 games.   Consider how long it's taken Boston to start gelling.  Only now have they started to look right despite having a full training camp and 40 games together.

Maybe Simmons is a bad fit.  He retains supreme trade value. 

On the flip side, maybe Brett Brown is a garbage coach.  Perhaps they should fire him and hire Thibs.  Embiid can be his KG.  Jimmy can be his Pierce.  Reddick can be his old man Ray.  Simmons can be his 6'10 Rondo.  Philly's Big 3 all have elite defensive potential.  The 2008 Celtics weren't particularly good offensively either - they built their reputation on defense and Philly can as well.

Despite the fact we've completely owned them in recent matchups, they remain a team I'm worried about.  If they figure it out, they can be really hard to beat. 

[nickagneta]

Since Butler joined the team:

- Simmons is averaging 17 points, 9 rebounds, 8.1 assists, 1.3 steals with 58% shooting.   

- Embiid is averaging 26 points, 13.5 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.7 blocks with 49% shooting. 

- Reddick is averaging 18.5 points, 2.2 rebounds, 2.5 assists with 47% shooting and 40% from three.   

- Butler is averaging 18.3 points, 4.9 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.9 steals with 47%/39%/86% shooting while averaging 5 less minutes than last season.

Philly didn't have a training camp with Butler.  He's played only 23 games with them.  The team has played at a 57 win pace in those 23 games.   Consider how long it's taken Boston to start gelling.  Only now have they started to look right despite having a full training camp and 40 games together.

Maybe Simmons is a bad fit.  He retains supreme trade value. 

On the flip side, maybe Brett Brown is a garbage coach.  Perhaps they should fire him and hire Thibs.  Embiid can be his KG.  Jimmy can be his Pierce.  Reddick can be his old man Ray.  Simmons can be his 6'10 Rondo.  Philly's Big 3 all have elite defensive potential.  The 2008 Celtics weren't particularly good offensively either - they built their reputation on defense and Philly can as well.

Despite the fact we've completely owned them in recent matchups, they remain a team I'm worried about.  If they figure it out, they can be really hard to beat.

Oh God!!! Thibs as Simmons' and Embiid's minute determining head coach? I would expect both to be permenantly damaged and quite possibly dead if Thibodeau is their head coach. 4 years. I would give Think four years before Coach T totally destroys Embiid and Simmons physically to the point their lives would be at risk never mind their NBA careers.

Okay, I jest, Thibs wouldn't run them to their death, but he could put 8 years of wear and tear on Embiid and Simmons in just 4 years. If there was ever a coach I keep as far away from Embiid as possible, it's Tom Thibodeau.

[tazzmaniac]

Since Butler joined the team:

- Simmons is averaging 17 points, 9 rebounds, 8.1 assists, 1.3 steals with 58% shooting.   

- Embiid is averaging 26 points, 13.5 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.7 blocks with 49% shooting. 

- Reddick is averaging 18.5 points, 2.2 rebounds, 2.5 assists with 47% shooting and 40% from three.   

- Butler is averaging 18.3 points, 4.9 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.9 steals with 47%/39%/86% shooting while averaging 5 less minutes than last season.

Philly didn't have a training camp with Butler.  He's played only 23 games with them.  The team has played at a 57 win pace in those 23 games.   Consider how long it's taken Boston to start gelling.  Only now have they started to look right despite having a full training camp and 40 games together.

Maybe Simmons is a bad fit.  He retains supreme trade value. 

On the flip side, maybe Brett Brown is a garbage coach.  Perhaps they should fire him and hire Thibs.  Embiid can be his KG.  Jimmy can be his Pierce.  Reddick can be his old man Ray.  Simmons can be his 6'10 Rondo.  Philly's Big 3 all have elite defensive potential.  The 2008 Celtics weren't particularly good offensively either - they built their reputation on defense and Philly can as well.

Despite the fact we've completely owned them in recent matchups, they remain a team I'm worried about.  If they figure it out, they can be really hard to beat.

Oh God!!! Thibs as Simmons' and Embiid's minute determining head coach? I would expect both to be permenantly damaged and quite possibly dead if Thibodeau is their head coach. 4 years. I would give Think four years before Coach T totally destroys Embiid and Simmons physically to the point their lives would be at risk never mind their NBA careers.

Okay, I jest, Thibs wouldn't run them to their death, but he could put 8 years of wear and tear on Embiid and Simmons in just 4 years. If there was ever a coach I keep as far away from Embiid as possible, it's Tom Thibodeau.

Amen!!!  Maybe they will need to get a different head coach to take the next step to become championship contender but Thibs would be a horrible choice.  Bringing him on as an assistant to shore up their defense wouldn't be a bad idea.