Author Topic: The next USA team  (Read 7718 times)

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Re: The next USA team
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2008, 09:08:48 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I find it hard to believe that you dismiss the likes of OJ Mayo, Michael Beasley, Kevin Love and other draftees this year but are so set in your ways on Derrick Rose. I think physically and talent wise he is a much bigger question than Beasley or Mayo and I think Chicago is due for a big surprise when they see Mayo and Beasley adapt to the NBA game so easily and in the meantime watch Rose struggle.

Unlike our new friend from Detroit, I don't think Stuckey would be a better fit for the team than Rondo, but if Paul and Williams don't return Stuckey would definitely make it over Rose, IMO.

And why are you dismissing very young players of this year's team. LeBron, Bosh, Williams, Paul and Howard would be near guarantees to return, IMO. They are all still very young and the commitment in non Olympic years isn't nearly as taxing. I think you are jumping to a bad conclusion ruling them out.

I think the major difference though is that each summer leading up to this Olympics they had gone through a training camp to go along with the tournaments they played in last 2 summers.   It's much different than say in 92 and 96 where basically Pippen and others who played in back to back Olympics just had to show up for a couple practices almost before the games began.  Another major point is before the team would be announced roughly a year before the Olympics started whereas now if you haven't been a part of the 3 year commitment the chances of you joining the team for the Olympics go down slightly.   These guys like you mentioned like Wade, Lebron, and Anthony have spent a good portion of their offseason the last 3 years committing to this team ( I think the World Championships could very easily be just as taxing as the Olympics and I think last year's qualifying tournament in the tournament of the Americas was close).   To ask them to do it again is not a given they would say yes (especially if you take into account things we don't think of much for example if they have a young family and want to stay home in the offseason) and maybe more likely for 1st timers to say yes.   That's why my premise is to just rule them out for now for 1) It makes it more interesting on this thread trying to figure out the next team 2) Like I said it's not an automatic they return.  GM's paying these guys millions of dollars may be leary of letting these guys go through another 3 years of this for example Cuban isn't a big fan of letting Dirk play.

For the 3 rookies you mentioned Beasley he is a great talent but until he proves to me he is more than another Derrick Coleman with subpar defense I'm leaving him off.  Putting up great college numbers such as what Glenn Robinson did doesn't always mean your going to be a great pro player so he has to prove it to me.  OJ Mayo could be a very good if not great player in the NBA but his type of play not really a point guard and not really a long distance shooting guard can struggle in international play.   I need to see more of Love but from what I saw of him in the summer league he struggled a bit with defense and he may be more of a high post player than low post player as of now.  Not sure the USA team is looking for someone like that.  Maybe he is more of a candidate for 2016 when he will still be in his late 20s.  If he can put close to 20 and 10 like his teammate Jefferson I would have to consider him though.  It's just one man's opinion but I feel real iffy putting these guys ahead of who I selected and I stress as of now not that they aren't capable of surpassing them.  I feel comfortable with the guys I selected before these 3 at their respective positions until these guys prove me otherwise.  Looking back I might change Granger instead of Wallace (much better 3 point shooter) and West in place of Horford knowing he is Dominican.  Derrick Rose though in my opinion I already feel comfortable saying his style is better suited for international play.  For one looking down the list there aren't many young talented traditional point guards after Paul and Williams so he already has a leg up on his fellow 3 rookies and among other rookies of making the team.  It's a very important position for international play and if you don't have the right PG no matter the surrounding talent the chances are your going to struggle.  (see 2002 team).  2 I feel very comfortable with his defense which I'm not so sure of as of yet with the other 3.   3 yes you may be right that Beasley and Mayo will have better rookie seasons but most point guards struggle somewhat in their first year or 2 (see Paul).   In the end though it's just difficult to add several rookies as of now to the team without seeing them play a single regular season game.  A year from now it could be a different story with maybe someone I haven't thought of like Anthony Randolph you would have to consider and the decision to come up with a team would be a little bit easier after seeing these rookies play a year.   Maybe we could revisit this topic a year from now and see what changes. 


oj mayo is a very good shooter. shooting is one of his strengths. he shot above 40% last year from college 3. I thought the inability of US point guards to shoot in order to keep zones honest has been a major problem for the usa, and is one reason kidd looks ridiculously washed up instead of mostly washed up like he does in the nba. Since the major knock on rose is his shot, i'm not sure he'd be great (or even better than mayo) for the international game.

Re: The next USA team
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2008, 09:35:37 PM »

Offline JBcat

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I find it hard to believe that you dismiss the likes of OJ Mayo, Michael Beasley, Kevin Love and other draftees this year but are so set in your ways on Derrick Rose. I think physically and talent wise he is a much bigger question than Beasley or Mayo and I think Chicago is due for a big surprise when they see Mayo and Beasley adapt to the NBA game so easily and in the meantime watch Rose struggle.

Unlike our new friend from Detroit, I don't think Stuckey would be a better fit for the team than Rondo, but if Paul and Williams don't return Stuckey would definitely make it over Rose, IMO.

And why are you dismissing very young players of this year's team. LeBron, Bosh, Williams, Paul and Howard would be near guarantees to return, IMO. They are all still very young and the commitment in non Olympic years isn't nearly as taxing. I think you are jumping to a bad conclusion ruling them out.

I think the major difference though is that each summer leading up to this Olympics they had gone through a training camp to go along with the tournaments they played in last 2 summers.   It's much different than say in 92 and 96 where basically Pippen and others who played in back to back Olympics just had to show up for a couple practices almost before the games began.  Another major point is before the team would be announced roughly a year before the Olympics started whereas now if you haven't been a part of the 3 year commitment the chances of you joining the team for the Olympics go down slightly.   These guys like you mentioned like Wade, Lebron, and Anthony have spent a good portion of their offseason the last 3 years committing to this team ( I think the World Championships could very easily be just as taxing as the Olympics and I think last year's qualifying tournament in the tournament of the Americas was close).   To ask them to do it again is not a given they would say yes (especially if you take into account things we don't think of much for example if they have a young family and want to stay home in the offseason) and maybe more likely for 1st timers to say yes.   That's why my premise is to just rule them out for now for 1) It makes it more interesting on this thread trying to figure out the next team 2) Like I said it's not an automatic they return.  GM's paying these guys millions of dollars may be leary of letting these guys go through another 3 years of this for example Cuban isn't a big fan of letting Dirk play.

For the 3 rookies you mentioned Beasley he is a great talent but until he proves to me he is more than another Derrick Coleman with subpar defense I'm leaving him off.  Putting up great college numbers such as what Glenn Robinson did doesn't always mean your going to be a great pro player so he has to prove it to me.  OJ Mayo could be a very good if not great player in the NBA but his type of play not really a point guard and not really a long distance shooting guard can struggle in international play.   I need to see more of Love but from what I saw of him in the summer league he struggled a bit with defense and he may be more of a high post player than low post player as of now.  Not sure the USA team is looking for someone like that.  Maybe he is more of a candidate for 2016 when he will still be in his late 20s.  If he can put close to 20 and 10 like his teammate Jefferson I would have to consider him though.  It's just one man's opinion but I feel real iffy putting these guys ahead of who I selected and I stress as of now not that they aren't capable of surpassing them.  I feel comfortable with the guys I selected before these 3 at their respective positions until these guys prove me otherwise.  Looking back I might change Granger instead of Wallace (much better 3 point shooter) and West in place of Horford knowing he is Dominican.  Derrick Rose though in my opinion I already feel comfortable saying his style is better suited for international play.  For one looking down the list there aren't many young talented traditional point guards after Paul and Williams so he already has a leg up on his fellow 3 rookies and among other rookies of making the team.  It's a very important position for international play and if you don't have the right PG no matter the surrounding talent the chances are your going to struggle.  (see 2002 team).  2 I feel very comfortable with his defense which I'm not so sure of as of yet with the other 3.   3 yes you may be right that Beasley and Mayo will have better rookie seasons but most point guards struggle somewhat in their first year or 2 (see Paul).   In the end though it's just difficult to add several rookies as of now to the team without seeing them play a single regular season game.  A year from now it could be a different story with maybe someone I haven't thought of like Anthony Randolph you would have to consider and the decision to come up with a team would be a little bit easier after seeing these rookies play a year.   Maybe we could revisit this topic a year from now and see what changes. 


oj mayo is a very good shooter. shooting is one of his strengths. he shot above 40% last year from college 3. I thought the inability of US point guards to shoot in order to keep zones honest has been a major problem for the usa, and is one reason kidd looks ridiculously washed up instead of mostly washed up like he does in the nba. Since the major knock on rose is his shot, i'm not sure he'd be great (or even better than mayo) for the international game.

Paul shot 36.9% and Williams shot 39.5% from the NBA 3 point line last year so not sure why they aren't keeping the defense honest enough.  I've seen them pass up 3's that maybe they should have taken.  The last 2 games worry me a little... Good point with Mayo.  I just question his ability as of now to run the point.  It appears he averaged more TO 3.5 than assists 3.3 last year in college.  He is probably more of a SG right now.  So then the question for me becomes is he any better than the SGs I selected before him.  Tough to say he is for now while the other SGs I selected averaged roughly 20 PPG in the pros as he did on the college level but someone to keep an eye on.   

Re: The next USA team
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2008, 10:13:58 PM »

Offline Rondoholic

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No way Gerald Wallace ever suits up for Team USA.  Iguodala is a much better player and does all of the same things.  Wallace can NOT shoot and that is something that you cannot have from your SF in international play. Plus, Team USA likes to have clean cut guys for their defensive role player guys (see: Tayshaun Prince and Shane Battier). 

PS, as was already mentioned, is Al Horford even technically American?

I already have Iggy on the team.   I give you that Wallace is not a good 3 pt shooter although he has improved in that area the last couple years and is right on par with Iguodala's 3 pt percentage.  Yes I would take Iguodala over him as well if I had to choose between the 2.   Is Wallace really that much of a head case?   I've heard KG loves him as a player.  Maybe someone like Danny Granger would be a better fit.  If Horford is a no go then maybe someone like David West.






No, I knew you had Iggy on the team already.  That's why I think G. Wallace would be very redundant.  Good job overall though in your assessment.

Re: The next USA team
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2008, 01:39:17 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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I've got one thing to say about Rodney Stuckey:   CLANGGGGG!

His touch in Summer League could have gotten him right into the Bricklayer's Union too. 

Re: The next USA team
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2008, 08:50:37 AM »

Offline JBcat

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No way Gerald Wallace ever suits up for Team USA.  Iguodala is a much better player and does all of the same things.  Wallace can NOT shoot and that is something that you cannot have from your SF in international play. Plus, Team USA likes to have clean cut guys for their defensive role player guys (see: Tayshaun Prince and Shane Battier). 

PS, as was already mentioned, is Al Horford even technically American?

I already have Iggy on the team.   I give you that Wallace is not a good 3 pt shooter although he has improved in that area the last couple years and is right on par with Iguodala's 3 pt percentage.  Yes I would take Iguodala over him as well if I had to choose between the 2.   Is Wallace really that much of a head case?   I've heard KG loves him as a player.  Maybe someone like Danny Granger would be a better fit.  If Horford is a no go then maybe someone like David West.






No, I knew you had Iggy on the team already.  That's why I think G. Wallace would be very redundant.  Good job overall though in your assessment.

Thanks for the compliment however I don't know how in the world I missed the beast Amare Stoudemire.  If his knees hold up 4 years from now he would still be young enough to merit strong consideration.  I think I would have to take him over David West who I used as Horford's replacement.