i don't see how tony allen fits

[Birdbrain]

He's got an adequate jumper but, who cares he's a slasher anyway.  And he provides a very necessary skill for the 2nd team.  Creating his own shot which Posey hasn't done since he joined the league. 

Hey did anyone see that New Orleans is undefeated and the C's 3-1.  There has got to be a correlation there somewhere.

[cordobes]

Saying that Tony Allen's jumper has been a little off but he does have one is like saying that Damon Jones' drive has been a little off but he does have one.

[blueygreen]

I still can't believe all the Tony hate around here. If you had Pose in that second unit and not Tony we wouldn't score. We'd have 3 guys sitting on the perimeter magically hoping to get open, BBD taking contested midrange jumpers and Powe trying to work in the post with heavy pressure on him. The fact of the matter is that Tony is one of the only players on our second unit that other teams defenses have to adjust to. Even though he isn't the worlds greatest kickout passer, he can do it (and has developed some nice chemistry with Eddie recently) and defenses have to collapse on him as he drives. Everyone also seems to forget about his defense, it is spot on. I hate to bang on about this point about him not being clutch, but Celtics fans seem to remember the bad and forget the good with the utmost ease sometimes. Yeah, he screwed up on TMac who got the classic bailout call. Remember that game in San Antonio? Where Manu basically jumped into him to try and draw the foul and ended up easily missing what would have been a pretty uncontested 3? Speaking of which. Turnover Tony? Is that what we call a guy who has 2 steals and 1 turnover nowadays? Out of control Tony who takes all these bad shots just happened to get 4 points on 1-1 shooting. The consistent hate for some players around here amazes me. That being said, it's probably brought on by the consistent love for Tony shown by some. The way we see him is pretty similar to the way he plays, the guy you love to hate or hate to love.

Just finally, on his jumpshot. His huge injury around 21 months  ago still has been plaguing his lift all the way until the end of last season. Then in the short offseason, instead of expecting him to keep doing core strength work to improve the knee and so on we're expecting him to spend what would be all of a very short offseason to "fix" his jumper? I'd say that people are sleeping on his jumper though, it's been much improved this season just with consistent hops. Also, with the slashing threat he has defenders can't play so heavily which gives him more room to go up uncontested.

I apologise if I come off at all harsh, it's 8.30 in the morning and I have an exam this arvo

[xmuscularghandix]

I still can't believe all the Tony hate around here. If you had Pose in that second unit and not Tony we wouldn't score. We'd have 3 guys sitting on the perimeter magically hoping to get open, BBD taking contested midrange jumpers and Powe trying to work in the post with heavy pressure on him. The fact of the matter is that Tony is one of the only players on our second unit that other teams defenses have to adjust to. Even though he isn't the worlds greatest kickout passer, he can do it (and has developed some nice chemistry with Eddie recently) and defenses have to collapse on him as he drives. Everyone also seems to forget about his defense, it is spot on. I hate to bang on about this point about him not being clutch, but Celtics fans seem to remember the bad and forget the good with the utmost ease sometimes. Yeah, he screwed up on TMac who got the classic bailout call. Remember that game in San Antonio? Where Manu basically jumped into him to try and draw the foul and ended up easily missing what would have been a pretty uncontested 3? Speaking of which. Turnover Tony? Is that what we call a guy who has 2 steals and 1 turnover nowadays? Out of control Tony who takes all these bad shots just happened to get 4 points on 1-1 shooting. The consistent hate for some players around here amazes me. That being said, it's probably brought on by the consistent love for Tony shown by some. The way we see him is pretty similar to the way he plays, the guy you love to hate or hate to love.

Just finally, on his jumpshot. His huge injury around 21 months  ago still has been plaguing his lift all the way until the end of last season. Then in the short offseason, instead of expecting him to keep doing core strength work to improve the knee and so on we're expecting him to spend what would be all of a very short offseason to "fix" his jumper? I'd say that people are sleeping on his jumper though, it's been much improved this season just with consistent hops. Also, with the slashing threat he has defenders can't play so heavily which gives him more room to go up uncontested.

I apologise if I come off at all harsh, it's 8.30 in the morning and I have an exam this arvo

j


TP.

[wdleehi]

Come playoff time, how much will we see the '2nd' unit out there? 


We will see bench players mixed with the starters. 



That's were TA has an issue fitting.  The Celtics need shooting to space the floor for Pierce, KG, Ray and even Rondo driving. 

They do not need another driver who isn't as good as the others. 



Let us just think of last year.  Before the playoffs, the Lakers had a great bench because they could score so many points.  The Celtics had a weaker bench because there was no go to scorer.


What did we learn? 

The Celtics bench was better because it reinforced the starters better. 



When we look at the Celtics bench right now, do we really see that anymore? 

Yes with House.  Can spread the floor for the stars with his shooting.

Yes with Powe.  Rebounding and energy.


Now the Celtics need to fill two/three main spots. 
1) Backup C that keeps KG out of the more physical matchups.
2) Swingman that plays defense and spreads the floor.
3) PG or ball handling SG that can run the offense for short spurts (could be Cassell or Pruitt by the time the playoffs roll around)

[xmuscularghandix]

TA can drive to the basket just as well as anyone on this team, except obviously pierce who can drive better than anyone in the league.

[wdleehi]

TA can drive to the basket just as well as anyone on this team, except obviously pierce who can drive better than anyone in the league.

That's great.


But is that what the Celtics are going to need from the swingman off the bench in the playoffs when they are on the floor with Rondo, Pierce and KG?



TA could be a much better player on another team that needs a starting SG that slashes.  (Orlando perhaps?)

[cordobes]

What did we learn? 

The Celtics bench was better because it reinforced the starters better. 

Yeps. That's true for every role-player.

[DimpusBurger]

I seem to remember TA leading the team in 3FG% for a few months last year.  He's not Ray Allen but when he gets his rhythm he's a perfectly good jump shooter.

Give him a healthy season or two and I'm convinced you'll be very pleasantly surprised with his all-around game.

[Chris]

I seem to remember TA leading the team in 3FG% for a few months last year.  He's not Ray Allen but when he gets his rhythm he's a perfectly good jump shooter.

Give him a healthy season or two and I'm convinced you'll be very pleasantly surprised with his all-around game.

If that was the case, it would have been because he simply did not take enough for his actual shooting percentage to show itself. 

Tony Allen is a pretty terrible outside shooter.  If he is able to break 30%, it is a pretty good year for him.

[DimpusBurger]

I seem to remember TA leading the team in 3FG% for a few months last year.  He's not Ray Allen but when he gets his rhythm he's a perfectly good jump shooter.

Give him a healthy season or two and I'm convinced you'll be very pleasantly surprised with his all-around game.

If that was the case, it would have been because he simply did not take enough for his actual shooting percentage to show itself. 

Tony Allen is a pretty terrible outside shooter.  If he is able to break 30%, it is a pretty good year for him.

Okay, I looked it up, from December-January of last year he shot 46% from 3.  And then he went into a horrible slump to finish the year and ended up at 31%.

[EJPLAYA]

I seem to remember TA leading the team in 3FG% for a few months last year.  He's not Ray Allen but when he gets his rhythm he's a perfectly good jump shooter.

Give him a healthy season or two and I'm convinced you'll be very pleasantly surprised with his all-around game.

I seem to remember that from the 20th of  Feb last season through the end of the regular season TA missed every single 3 pt attempt he took... That is backed up by stats. 3 of the six months in the season last year in fact he made no 3 pointers taken. He's a career 30.8% shooter. That is absolutely terrible for a "shooting" guard. Let's take the three pointer off the table for TA. There is no way that TA will ever be a good three point shooter, and hopefully he stops ever taking them. Drive to the basket, pull up from 10 feet for a shot if you have to. Get back on defense.  That's it...

[BballTim]

TA can drive to the basket just as well as anyone on this team, except obviously pierce who can drive better than anyone in the league.

That's great.


But is that what the Celtics are going to need from the swingman off the bench in the playoffs when they are on the floor with Rondo, Pierce and KG?



TA could be a much better player on another team that needs a starting SG that slashes.  (Orlando perhaps?)

  KG spends most of his time on the perimeter, as does Ray and Eddie and Paul. Paul's a slasher, but we don't have much of that when he's out. Spreading the floor is great, but so is attacking the basket.

[Sweet17]

 

KG spends most of his time on the perimeter, as does Ray and Eddie and Paul. Paul's a slasher, but we don't have much of that when he's out. Spreading the floor is great, but so is attacking the basket.

TA's problem is that when he is out there with Rondo we really lack jumpshooting ability. That's why he is good for the second unit with House. Doc can bring in House/TA as a tandem replacement for RA/Rondo. We actually don't loose much jump shooting ability that way..we might even gain some the way Rondo has been "shooting" from the outside.

I dont' see why Tony gets so much gruff on this board - a productive player who plays well at times on both ends of the court. For every time he gets some bogus foul against him - he makes disrputive defensive play.

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809BOS.HTM

Look at his roland rating - third on the team. There is NO WAY a guy with that kind of PER differential and his solid +/- is hurting the team. You guys need to watch him more carefully IMHO. He does more good then bad out there.

Pete

Pete

[crownsy]

I seem to remember TA leading the team in 3FG% for a few months last year.  He's not Ray Allen but when he gets his rhythm he's a perfectly good jump shooter.

Give him a healthy season or two and I'm convinced you'll be very pleasantly surprised with his all-around game.

I seem to remember that from the 20th of  Feb last season through the end of the regular season TA missed every single 3 pt attempt he took... That is backed up by stats. 3 of the six months in the season last year in fact he made no 3 pointers taken. He's a career 30.8% shooter. That is absolutely terrible for a "shooting" guard. Let's take the three pointer off the table for TA. There is no way that TA will ever be a good three point shooter, and hopefully he stops ever taking them. Drive to the basket, pull up from 10 feet for a shot if you have to. Get back on defense.  That's it...

Got all net on the one he took last night 

(not that it means anything at all, just funny we were discussing this today)