Full Basketball HOF Class of '24 Announced

[Muzzy66]

I’m surprised people think Carter shouldn’t make it. He is 21st all time in points and his dunking was a big part of the NBA culture and must see tv for the early part of his career. He was also an 8 time all star.

he made 1 2nd Team and 1 3rd Team in his career. Thst is it. Just 2 top 15 seasons in his entire career. Just 4 sessons receiving MVP votes finishing in 10th in his best season.  Vince played a long time, but he isn't a HOFer.

To be fair he did play in an era that was very deep at the wing spots.  Kobe, Tmac, KD, Ray Allen, Paul George, Paul Pierce, Stackhouse, Finley, Grant Hill, Shawn Marion, Michael Redd, Carmelo Anthony, Lebron, Joe Johnson, Granger, D-Wade, Iverson.  The late 90s / early 2000s might well have been the deepest generation ever at the SG and SF spots. 

* Kobe and Wade are top 3 all-time at the SG spot with Iverson probably falling top 5 and Ray Allen somewhere in the top 10. 
* Lebron and KD are top 3 all-time at the SF spot, with Pierce, T-Mac, Melo and Paul George probably all falling in the top 10 at that position.

It's hard to blame Vince for not making many All-NBA 1st/2nd teams when Kobe/Wade/Lebron/KD pretty much had those spots locked up for a good decade. 

In pretty much any other era he would have been at least 2nd team all NBA for most of his career. I mean, just look at the current league - Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Jaylen Brown, Anthony Edwards.  I think prime VC was better than any of those guys.  If he played in todays
"shot chucking" era he'd be putting up 30+ easy.   

[trickybilly]

Sheesh.

[Moranis]

Carter started  in 1999.  Lebron and Wade didn't enter the league till 2003 and Durant didn't enter the league until 2008.  I mean Carter was done being an all star by the time KD stepped foot on a NBA floor. 

Carter simply wasn't good enough. No shame in that, but it is reality.

[Who]

It is kinda sad that Walter Davis is such a question mark for the HoF. What a talent he was. Speed, size, moves, shooting touch. Exciting two guard. He should have been one of the best SGs ever. Dang drugs.

Even with the drugs slowing him down, I think Walter Davis had a fairly similar career to Vince. A pair of All-NBA seasons to start his career. Several All-Star seasons afterwards. 6 in total. He could have had more. Vince had 2 All-NBA and 8 ASGs.

Walter Davis should have had a Ray Allen type career. Young Walter and young Ray were very similar. Knockdown shooters with strong athleticism. Dangerous scorers.

[Neurotic Guy]

Carter started  in 1999.  Lebron and Wade didn't enter the league till 2003 and Durant didn't enter the league until 2008.  I mean Carter was done being an all star by the time KD stepped foot on a NBA floor. 

Carter simply wasn't good enough. No shame in that, but it is reality.

He was a 8 time all-star and had scored 20+ 9 times and 24+ six times.  Either you decide to make your own HOF criteria or you acknowledge the reality of actual HOF criteria as evidenced by who is ‘enshrined’.  If you go by the actual list, Vince absolutely makes it.

To what matters (my opinion of course), the Hall of Fame is a museum.  Carter was a unique player and a top player for a decade. He also played in the NBA in 4 decades.  He should be in the museum.

[Who]

What playoff memories did Vince Carter create?

A great duel with Iverson in 2001. 7 game series. Right to the death. Great series.

A nasty dunk or two on Alonzo Mourning (highlight plays) against the Heat while Vince's New Jersey team went out without much of a fight.

Very little to show for his decade of star performances.

Edit: Oh wait. Vince did come back to kill the Raptors in the playoffs with NJ. That was fun. I forgot that.

[Who]

Vince's playoff resume

2000 - 19ppg on 30% shooting against NY
2001 - 23ppg on 38% shooting against NY
        - 30ppg on 47% shooting against Philly

He was terrible in those first two series against NY. T-Mac outperformed him in 2000 before leaving and in 2001 Vince was bailed out by his teammates who carried the team into the 2nd round. Vince redeemed himself with a great performance against Philly. So he choked in 2 of his 3 playoff series with Toronto. That his Toronto playoff resume. Notice the 4 year playoff absence here.

2005 - 27ppg on 37% shooting against Miami
2006 - 29ppg on 46% shooting against Indy
        - 30ppg on 47% shooting against Miami
2007 - 25ppg on 43% shooting against Toronto
        - 19ppg on 35% shooting against the Cavs

That is his playoff resume with New Jersey. His prime and All-Star years are over at this point. He had a great run in 2006 but choked hard in 2005 against Miami and in 2007 against LeBron's Cavs. He has a very good series against Toronto although not that efficient. So he did well in the 2 series against lesser oppponents and choked in 2 of the 3 playoff series against strong opponents (MIA, CLE).

That is about what I remember of his playoff career. A lot of choking. Not many fond memories. For such a talented player, it was a dismal return.

[Moranis]

Carter started  in 1999.  Lebron and Wade didn't enter the league till 2003 and Durant didn't enter the league until 2008.  I mean Carter was done being an all star by the time KD stepped foot on a NBA floor. 

Carter simply wasn't good enough. No shame in that, but it is reality.

He was a 8 time all-star and had scored 20+ 9 times and 24+ six times.  Either you decide to make your own HOF criteria or you acknowledge the reality of actual HOF criteria as evidenced by who is ‘enshrined’.  If you go by the actual list, Vince absolutely makes it.

To what matters (my opinion of course), the Hall of Fame is a museum.  Carter was a unique player and a top player for a decade. He also played in the NBA in 4 decades.  He should be in the museum.

2 All NBA teams, very few seasons receiving MVP votes, not close to an All Defense team.  He just shouldn't be a HOFer.  He is basically Demar DeRozan for a current player comparison.

[Donoghus]

Carter started  in 1999.  Lebron and Wade didn't enter the league till 2003 and Durant didn't enter the league until 2008.  I mean Carter was done being an all star by the time KD stepped foot on a NBA floor. 

Carter simply wasn't good enough. No shame in that, but it is reality.

He was a 8 time all-star and had scored 20+ 9 times and 24+ six times.  Either you decide to make your own HOF criteria or you acknowledge the reality of actual HOF criteria as evidenced by who is ‘enshrined’.  If you go by the actual list, Vince absolutely makes it.

To what matters (my opinion of course), the Hall of Fame is a museum.  Carter was a unique player and a top player for a decade. He also played in the NBA in 4 decades.  He should be in the museum.

2 All NBA teams, very few seasons receiving MVP votes, not close to an All Defense team.  He just shouldn't be a HOFer.  He is basically Demar DeRozan for a current player comparison.

Certainly fair.

But based on who is in the Basketball Hall of Fame, he's belonging.

It's a Hall of Very Good. 

[Kernewek]

Carter started  in 1999.  Lebron and Wade didn't enter the league till 2003 and Durant didn't enter the league until 2008.  I mean Carter was done being an all star by the time KD stepped foot on a NBA floor. 

Carter simply wasn't good enough. No shame in that, but it is reality.

He was a 8 time all-star and had scored 20+ 9 times and 24+ six times.  Either you decide to make your own HOF criteria or you acknowledge the reality of actual HOF criteria as evidenced by who is ‘enshrined’.  If you go by the actual list, Vince absolutely makes it.

To what matters (my opinion of course), the Hall of Fame is a museum.  Carter was a unique player and a top player for a decade. He also played in the NBA in 4 decades.  He should be in the museum.

2 All NBA teams, very few seasons receiving MVP votes, not close to an All Defense team.  He just shouldn't be a HOFer.  He is basically Demar DeRozan for a current player comparison.

Certainly fair.

But based on who is in the Basketball Hall of Fame, he's belonging.

It's a Hall of Very Good.

He's responsible for one of the greatest in-game dunks in worldwide NBA history (plus Olympic gold in that same tournament).

[Who]

Carter started  in 1999.  Lebron and Wade didn't enter the league till 2003 and Durant didn't enter the league until 2008.  I mean Carter was done being an all star by the time KD stepped foot on a NBA floor. 

Carter simply wasn't good enough. No shame in that, but it is reality.

He was a 8 time all-star and had scored 20+ 9 times and 24+ six times.  Either you decide to make your own HOF criteria or you acknowledge the reality of actual HOF criteria as evidenced by who is ‘enshrined’.  If you go by the actual list, Vince absolutely makes it.

To what matters (my opinion of course), the Hall of Fame is a museum.  Carter was a unique player and a top player for a decade. He also played in the NBA in 4 decades.  He should be in the museum.

2 All NBA teams, very few seasons receiving MVP votes, not close to an All Defense team.  He just shouldn't be a HOFer.  He is basically Demar DeRozan for a current player comparison.

Plus - DeRozan was never the face of the league (or one of the faces of the league) like Vince was in 1999-01. I don't know whether that should count for anything or if it does how much should it count for. It probably should count for something.

DeRozan has a lot of statistical similiarity to Vince but he was never that. He was never looked at as the future of the NBA. An MVP caliber talent. The next Michael Jordan.

[Who]

I wonder if Vince gets a bump for making basketball popular in Canada. Like the Yao Ming effect on China. Only slightly different. So many guys have come out of the Toronto area and gone on to the NBA citing Vince as one their heros growing up. Vince established the Raptors in Toronto while the Vancouver Grizzlies failed and left Canada for Memphis.

I also wonder whether Stephon Marbury one day gets a similar bump for his effect in Chinese basketball. 

[Wretch]

The BB HOF also includes college and international play.  VC had 3 very good years at UNC with 2nd team All-American and All ACC selections under Dean Smith, whose systems were known to deflate the counting stats for great players.

I'm not saying anything about whether or not VC should be a HOFer but his college career is part of the calculus.
 

[Moranis]

I wonder if Vince gets a bump for making basketball popular in Canada. Like the Yao Ming effect on China. Only slightly different. So many guys have come out of the Toronto area and gone on to the NBA citing Vince as one their heros growing up. Vince established the Raptors in Toronto while the Vancouver Grizzlies failed and left Canada for Memphis.

I also wonder whether Stephon Marbury one day gets a similar bump for his effect in Chinese basketball.

I think you ate over remembering Vince's popularity. He was certainly popular, but fa e of the league from a guy that never made the 1st Team, never finished higher than 10th in mvp voting, etc. 

Found an article with the top jersey seller every year back to 2001.  That was Kobe. I'd be surprised if Vince was top before then (I recall Iverson was everywhere back then, as an example), but I didn't find it in my quick search.  Same article had the top 20  starting in 02-03 and Vince was 20th (Kobe, AI, TMac, Jordan (wizards), and Pierce were top 5). At his heyday with Nets he was 8th, 9th, and 10th.

[bdm860]

I wonder if Vince gets a bump for making basketball popular in Canada. Like the Yao Ming effect on China. Only slightly different. So many guys have come out of the Toronto area and gone on to the NBA citing Vince as one their heros growing up. Vince established the Raptors in Toronto while the Vancouver Grizzlies failed and left Canada for Memphis.

I also wonder whether Stephon Marbury one day gets a similar bump for his effect in Chinese basketball.

I think you ate over remembering Vince's popularity. He was certainly popular, but fa e of the league from a guy that never made the 1st Team, never finished higher than 10th in mvp voting, etc. 

Found an article with the top jersey seller every year back to 2001.  That was Kobe. I'd be surprised if Vince was top before then (I recall Iverson was everywhere back then, as an example), but I didn't find it in my quick search.  Same article had the top 20  starting in 02-03 and Vince was 20th (Kobe, AI, TMac, Jordan (wizards), and Pierce were top 5). At his heyday with Nets he was 8th, 9th, and 10th.

Another gauge to look at is All-Star voting.

Vince Carter led the league in votes for '00, '01, '02, '04.  I gotta think he would have led the league in '99 too had there been an All-Star game.