Author Topic: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread  (Read 113850 times)

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Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #165 on: September 11, 2017, 02:41:04 AM »

Offline playdream

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No more than a solid starter to me

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #166 on: September 11, 2017, 03:38:50 AM »

Offline gouki88

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No more than a solid starter to me
Why?
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #167 on: September 11, 2017, 03:40:03 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Solid role player with a nice 3 pt stroke and good court vision.  Use caution evaluating a guy like this.  He's not a gamechanger and he's not a #1 overall caliber player.
Maybe rn (although I disagree) but he's still 18, could take a leap this year. He's a very nice player with a handy skillset in the modern nba imo, should be a star at least barring unexpected events.
Slower than Gordon Hayward, e.g.  Below average lift for an NBA player.  Doesn't finish thru contact.  Pretty good finesse finisher tho.  He has a nice floater and a herky-jerky old man game.  Stars are not borne of this.  He can be a nice rotation player, but he's not breaking guys down off the dribble in the league.  A really nice 3rd or 4th option.
A really nice 3rd option (like Ray in Boston) would be a star imo, not bad for a top 5 pick.
Ray Allen, in his prime, is a #1 option.  One of the purest shooters the league has ever seen, an incredible ball handler who could create his own shot.  He scored 51 points in a playoff game.  Doncic is not this.
I said Ray in Boston, who was past his prime and was a 3rd option.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #168 on: September 11, 2017, 06:18:24 AM »

Offline playdream

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No more than a solid starter to me
Why?
He just isn't quick and strong enough to dominate in NBA
How is he going to defend at a high level? above average team defender will be his ceiling
How is he going to be a star scorer in NBA? 20ppg will be his best
I see him as KO type of guy, very useful high floor starter, in prime maybe can make 1 or 2 time allstar but no higher, means low ceiling for top picks

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #169 on: September 11, 2017, 06:27:30 AM »

Offline ederson

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since when 20ppg is not good enough ?

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #170 on: September 11, 2017, 06:50:14 AM »

Offline Androslav

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No more than a solid starter to me
Why?
He just isn't quick and strong enough to dominate in NBA
How is he going to defend at a high level? above average team defender will be his ceiling
How is he going to be a star scorer in NBA? 20ppg will be his best
I see him as KO type of guy, very useful high floor starter, in prime maybe can make 1 or 2 time allstar but no higher, means low ceiling for top picks
I think that it is very hard for people that haven't seen enough of his play (not just 4 sec long fancy clips, or a qtr here and there), to understand the value of players feel for the game, his vision and his intangibles, to validate them. This works for everyone, not just Luka.  A much more evident thing, to see if someone is jumping through the roof or not, or how high is his FT%. Hey, when people saw Kukoč 25 years ago, I presume that 95% of Americans (he was a stranger to them ATM) would feel similar (he can't jump or run like hell, skinny, Pippen held him in check).
Then after 3 titles, everyone is like: "Oh, yeah, Toni, I knew clearly he would be great.", "How can you not think...blah, blah"

Look, if Luka comes here, via the draft, I will pop a chilled champagne (as I did when we won this lottery) and (after a few drinks) I would say he will win at least 4 titles in Boston. Then he can be an average starter (or even a 6th man) for as long as he wants.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #171 on: September 11, 2017, 07:44:04 AM »

Offline Somebody

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No more than a solid starter to me
Why?
He just isn't quick and strong enough to dominate in NBA
How is he going to defend at a high level? above average team defender will be his ceiling
How is he going to be a star scorer in NBA? 20ppg will be his best
I see him as KO type of guy, very useful high floor starter, in prime maybe can make 1 or 2 time allstar but no higher, means low ceiling for top picks
I think that it is very hard for people that haven't seen enough of his play (not just 4 sec long fancy clips, or a qtr here and there), to understand the value of players feel for the game, his vision and his intangibles, to validate them. This works for everyone, not just Luka.  A much more evident thing, to see if someone is jumping through the roof or not, or how high is his FT%. Hey, when people saw Kukoč 25 years ago, I presume that 95% of Americans (he was a stranger to them ATM) would feel similar (he can't jump or run like hell, skinny, Pippen held him in check).
Then after 3 titles, everyone is like: "Oh, yeah, Toni, I knew clearly he would be great.", "How can you not think...blah, blah"

Look, if Luka comes here, via the draft, I will pop a chilled champagne (as I did when we won this lottery) and (after a few drinks) I would say he will win at least 4 titles in Boston. Then he can be an average starter (or even a 6th man) for as long as he wants.
Well I see him as a high floor fairly high ceiling type of guy, actually see flashes of Hondo assuming his body develops and he improves his speed. A poor man's Hondo (his ceiling imo) would be a terrific top 3 pick.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #172 on: September 11, 2017, 08:20:54 AM »

Offline gouki88

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No more than a solid starter to me
Why?
He just isn't quick and strong enough to dominate in NBA
How is he going to defend at a high level? above average team defender will be his ceiling
How is he going to be a star scorer in NBA? 20ppg will be his best
I see him as KO type of guy, very useful high floor starter, in prime maybe can make 1 or 2 time allstar but no higher, means low ceiling for top picks
I think his quickness is undersold because he's a Euro, and that's a criticism of almost all Euro guys.
He will definitely hold his own, as his length enables him to cover 2's and 3's easily.
Not all star players are star scorers. But I still think he has the potential to be a well above average scorer (22ppg or so) with rebounds and assists between 5-8 for each. His feel for the game and his ability to score from anywhere is very impressive.

Guess we just see different things in him.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #173 on: September 11, 2017, 12:04:11 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

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He's never averaged 10 ppg in Europe and there are ~15-20 guys in the world who score 22ppg in the NBA.  He's not gonna be one of them.  I could see him being the modernized version of Kukoc.  Much more of an isolation player than Kukoc was, and that's the part that I don't think will translate for him.

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #174 on: September 11, 2017, 12:11:50 PM »

Offline ederson

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He never
He's never averaged 10 ppg in Europe

You make it sound like he s been playing there the last 100 years !! This was his second season in euroleague.(quick reminder he is 18 years old)

Also Euroleague does not work as the NBA
Top teams rarely have a 20ppg scorer. Top scorer for Real was Llull with 16ppg....

Saric in his last season in Europe scored 12ppg in Euroleague (22y.o.)


Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #175 on: September 11, 2017, 12:16:04 PM »

Offline coffee425

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typical "he's not athletic enough" arguments. you guys must love the careers of Thomas Robinson, Gerald Green, and future Hall of Famer Ben McClemore.

please don't overlook how difficult it is to have his high level of skill and feel for his age. and yes, this gets even better with age.

Quote
Even at the end of the game, we lined up in different formation that he hadn't seen and he called out our play before I got the ball. I heard him calling it out. -John Wall on Brad Stevens

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #176 on: September 11, 2017, 12:53:40 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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He's never averaged 10 ppg in Europe

He's 18, plays in a loaded team and European teams score like 70 ppg, not 105 like in the NBA.

Very ignorant assumption.

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #177 on: September 11, 2017, 01:31:44 PM »

Offline playdream

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No more than a solid starter to me
Why?
He just isn't quick and strong enough to dominate in NBA
How is he going to defend at a high level? above average team defender will be his ceiling
How is he going to be a star scorer in NBA? 20ppg will be his best
I see him as KO type of guy, very useful high floor starter, in prime maybe can make 1 or 2 time allstar but no higher, means low ceiling for top picks
I think his quickness is undersold because he's a Euro, and that's a criticism of almost all Euro guys.
He will definitely hold his own, as his length enables him to cover 2's and 3's easily.
Not all star players are star scorers. But I still think he has the potential to be a well above average scorer (22ppg or so) with rebounds and assists between 5-8 for each. His feel for the game and his ability to score from anywhere is very impressive.

Guess we just see different things in him.
I watched his video and just didn't see that quickness in him, i will like to be proved wrong though

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #178 on: September 11, 2017, 02:57:22 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

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He's never averaged 10 ppg in Europe

He's 18, plays in a loaded team and European teams score like 70 ppg, not 105 like in the NBA.

Very ignorant assumption.
I get that.  I meant that people are understating how hard it is to score 22ppg in the NBA.  It's not NBA2K.  Kevin Durant scored 25 last year.  Scoring 22 practically puts you on an All-NBA team if you look at the list of scoring leaders.  Imagine Doncic playing across from Kawhi, Giannis, Lebron, Paul George, Durant... even the 2nd and 3rd tier forwards in the league will be a handful for Doncic.  He doesn't project as a #1 scoring option IMO.

I had a laugh last year when people told me that Dragan Bender plays on a loaded team, doesn't get minutes like he will in the NBA, can guard 5 positions, etc.  It was obvious that he's not an NBA caliber athlete.  Doncic is much better, but he's not going to light the league on fire. He's eerily similar to a young Mike Miller, right down to the shooting form.  Doncic sees the court better, of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inEGPtTOjL0

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #179 on: September 12, 2017, 04:34:39 PM »

Offline greece66

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For Doncic watchers: Slovenia will play Spain on Sept 14 for a place in the Finals.