CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: CelticsElite on October 04, 2018, 09:04:36 PM
-
Starting this thread as kyrie now announces he intends to resign.
Trading rozier instead of letting him walk could bring back another good player or asset. The question is - is it worth it to risk trading rozier and getting someone slightly worse (because he is expiring, I don’t know if you get equal value)
I was thinking it could be like Bradley-for-Morris deal, getting a solid rotation player. But I feel like we swindled Detroit there and it wasn’t fair deal lol
-
Reunite the Morris twins and get Marcus to take another discount contract before trading his brother to the Hawks.
-
Reunite the Morris twins and get Marcus to take another discount contract before trading his brother to the Hawks.
lol
-
I think the offer would have to be really good for Ainge to trade away Scary Terry. Should be interesting.
-
I think we have to wait to see how the team looks. If it looks like Rozier might be what pushes into true title contention and we can't get much for him as an expiring, I might say keep him.
But if we know Kyrie is coming back and we're priced out with Terry, I can see DA inquiring.
-
I've said it before, but I wouldn't be so sure Rozier is going to be the one to go between him and Smart. We have Rozier's RFA rights and a lot of teams will have cap space next off-season; there are probably a number of teams who would be happy to acquire Smart for a minimal return should Danny choose Rozier over Smart.
There is always the possibility that Hayward just never meshes and Smart proves an ability to play more SF and we sign Rozier and trade away Hayward.
You just never know. Let's not pack Terry's bags just yet.
-
The Suns could really use a PG for the future, but I don’t know if they would ever trade with us again after we fleeced them in the Thomas trade. Lol
I’d rather just keep and re-sign Rozier as well. He can share the court with Irving at times. He can be a top notch bench player for us, or a middle of the pack starting PG somewhere else.
We’ll know either way how deep into the tax ownership is willing to go if we trade or keep Rozier going into next offseason.
-
I think it gets us shorthanded at guard depth.
Better to sign him for a reasonable contract and keep him through our championship contender window. We will knoe next season if such a thing exists for us. He will remain very tradeable if we need to unload salary for somw reason.
-
I could be wrong, but i see this as the best situation for Terry. Personally, I think he's an excellent bench guy. Maybe even 6th man of the year good. But that's it. He's got a lot of energy, handles the ball pretty well, and can shot a bit.
Guess I'm missing something, but I just don't see him as a starting point guard an a championship team. To me he's more of a Lou Williams kind of guy.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
-
I could be wrong, but i see this as the best situation for Terry. Personally, I think he's an excellent bench guy. Maybe even 6th man of the year good. But that's it. He's got a lot of energy, handles the ball pretty well, and can shot a bit.
Guess I'm missing something, but I just don't see him as a starting point guard an a championship team. To me he's more of a Lou Williams kind of guy.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
This is exactly how I see it. Unless he makes some major jump this year, off the bench suits him perfectly
-
I could be wrong, but i see this as the best situation for Terry. Personally, I think he's an excellent bench guy. Maybe even 6th man of the year good. But that's it. He's got a lot of energy, handles the ball pretty well, and can shot a bit.
Guess I'm missing something, but I just don't see him as a starting point guard an a championship team. To me he's more of a Lou Williams kind of guy.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
This is exactly how I see it. Unless he makes some major jump this year, off the bench suits him perfectly
Terry defends and has more than 1 hit point (Lue Will.)
Big difference in my book.
-
I wonder what people would think of Rozier+ 1st round pick (Celtics) and a second rounder for Mikal Bridges?
-
I think if we want to challenge Warriors or anyone of that level in comming years, we should have both of them, Irving and Rozier.
-
I could be wrong, but i see this as the best situation for Terry. Personally, I think he's an excellent bench guy. Maybe even 6th man of the year good. But that's it. He's got a lot of energy, handles the ball pretty well, and can shot a bit.
Guess I'm missing something, but I just don't see him as a starting point guard an a championship team. To me he's more of a Lou Williams kind of guy.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
This is exactly how I see it. Unless he makes some major jump this year, off the bench suits him perfectly
Terry defends and has more than 1 hit point (Lue Will.)
Big difference in my book.
Have to disagree on the defense part. I thought he had a hard time staying in front of the guys he was guarding. He's a better off the ball guy, jumping lanes, steals, etc. While he's probably not as bad as Irving playing man on man, I certainly don't see it as his strength.
-
a mid-first round pick or equivalent level of player.
-
I could be wrong, but i see this as the best situation for Terry. Personally, I think he's an excellent bench guy. Maybe even 6th man of the year good. But that's it. He's got a lot of energy, handles the ball pretty well, and can shot a bit.
Guess I'm missing something, but I just don't see him as a starting point guard an a championship team. To me he's more of a Lou Williams kind of guy.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
This is exactly how I see it. Unless he makes some major jump this year, off the bench suits him perfectly
Terry defends and has more than 1 hit point (Lue Will.)
Big difference in my book.
Have to disagree on the defense part. I thought he had a hard time staying in front of the guys he was guarding. He's a better off the ball guy, jumping lanes, steals, etc. While he's probably not as bad as Irving playing man on man, I certainly don't see it as his strength.
I agree, I don't think TRoz is an especially good defender, but rather he's an especially gifted athlete. Lou is a considerably better scorer, especially from within the arc, and is a better passer.
-
I could be wrong, but i see this as the best situation for Terry. Personally, I think he's an excellent bench guy. Maybe even 6th man of the year good. But that's it. He's got a lot of energy, handles the ball pretty well, and can shot a bit.
Guess I'm missing something, but I just don't see him as a starting point guard an a championship team. To me he's more of a Lou Williams kind of guy.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
This is exactly how I see it. Unless he makes some major jump this year, off the bench suits him perfectly
Terry defends and has more than 1 hit point (Lue Will.)
Big difference in my book.
Have to disagree on the defense part. I thought he had a hard time staying in front of the guys he was guarding. He's a better off the ball guy, jumping lanes, steals, etc. While he's probably not as bad as Irving playing man on man, I certainly don't see it as his strength.
He is Kawhi compared to Lou.
Williams just lets guys score, with no resistance at all.
I think that Terry has a much better motor and physical ability than Lou.
The know-how will improve.
-
I could be wrong, but i see this as the best situation for Terry. Personally, I think he's an excellent bench guy. Maybe even 6th man of the year good. But that's it. He's got a lot of energy, handles the ball pretty well, and can shot a bit.
Guess I'm missing something, but I just don't see him as a starting point guard an a championship team. To me he's more of a Lou Williams kind of guy.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
This is exactly how I see it. Unless he makes some major jump this year, off the bench suits him perfectly
Terry defends and has more than 1 hit point (Lue Will.)
Big difference in my book.
Have to disagree on the defense part. I thought he had a hard time staying in front of the guys he was guarding. He's a better off the ball guy, jumping lanes, steals, etc. While he's probably not as bad as Irving playing man on man, I certainly don't see it as his strength.
He is Kawhi compared to Lou.
Williams just lets guys score, with no resistance at all.
I think that Terry has a much better motor and physical ability than Lou.
The know-how will improve.
Okay, perhaps Williams wasn't the best comparison. My point is that some players, and in my opinion Terry is one of them, are just better suited to come off the bench. I just don't see the consistency or talent there to be a starter on a championship team. But I do see him being an energy kind of guy off the bench that a championship team needs. It's not a bad thing.
Again, it's just my perception and I've been wrong before. Pretty sure I will be again.
-
New rule on CS:
re-sign equals "sign again"
resign equals "to quit"
I believe that following this simple rule throughout the season will save us from a lot of cardiac arrest.
Mike
-
New rule on CS:
re-sign equals "sign again"
resign equals "to quit"
I believe that following this simple rule throughout the season will save us from a lot of cardiac arrest.
Mike
I haven't read through this thread yet..so idk what you are referring to but i literally lol'd because i was at the garden event last night, and my gf (from another country but with extremely good English) when i asked her "did you hear the big news"...she responded "but why is Kyrie quitting?"..i said "what?" ...she says..."he said he's resigning"
-
Watch the Suns.
I do wonder if Rozier is bummed out this morning.
-
I could be wrong, but i see this as the best situation for Terry. Personally, I think he's an excellent bench guy. Maybe even 6th man of the year good. But that's it. He's got a lot of energy, handles the ball pretty well, and can shot a bit.
Guess I'm missing something, but I just don't see him as a starting point guard an a championship team. To me he's more of a Lou Williams kind of guy.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
This is exactly how I see it. Unless he makes some major jump this year, off the bench suits him perfectly
Terry defends and has more than 1 hit point (Lue Will.)
Big difference in my book.
That said, I would love to have LouWill on this team to add the element we are missing. A (very) consistent bench scorer/shooter.
-
New rule on CS:
re-sign equals "sign again"
resign equals "to quit"
I believe that following this simple rule throughout the season will save us from a lot of cardiac arrest.
Mike
I haven't read through this thread yet..so idk what you are referring to but i literally lol'd because i was at the garden event last night, and my gf (from another country but with extremely good English) when i asked her "did you hear the big news"...she responded "but why is Kyrie quitting?"..i said "what?" ...she says..."he said he's resigning"
Love foreign chicks. What country is she from?
-
I think Rozier will have more value midseason. We can also sign and trade him at the end of the season as we can match any offer he gets.
-
Im dreaming of an A Davis xmas ...... ;D
-
Im dreaming of an A Davis xmas ...... ;D
Me too!
-
Poeltl for Rozier would be an interesting trade for both teams.
-
Poeltl for Rozier would be an interesting trade for both teams.
Do you think Poeltl would have a long term spot here alongside Williams?
-
Poeltl for Rozier would be an interesting trade for both teams.
Do you think Poeltl would have a long term spot here alongside Williams?
Rozier is worth way more than Poeltl. Not a Poeltl fan.
-
New rule on CS:
re-sign equals "sign again"
resign equals "to quit"
I believe that following this simple rule throughout the season will save us from a lot of cardiac arrest.
Mike
I haven't read through this thread yet..so idk what you are referring to but i literally lol'd because i was at the garden event last night, and my gf (from another country but with extremely good English) when i asked her "did you hear the big news"...she responded "but why is Kyrie quitting?"..i said "what?" ...she says..."he said he's resigning"
Love foreign chicks. What country is she from?
Philippines:)
-
What can trading Rozier get us?
Seller's Remorse
-
Poeltl for Rozier would be an interesting trade for both teams.
Do you think Poeltl would have a long term spot here alongside Williams?
Absolutely. They bring different things. Poeltl is an offensive player while Williams is a defensive player. I don't know that they could play together, but I think they could form a pretty nice rotation at center depending on match-up, situation, etc.
-
Poeltl for Rozier would be an interesting trade for both teams.
Do you think Poeltl would have a long term spot here alongside Williams?
Rozier is worth way more than Poeltl. Not a Poeltl fan.
Rozier is a better player, but I don't think he is getting much more than someone like Poeltl or a mid-1st round pick. I don't think a lot of teams really think Rozier can be a championship level starter, he is expiring and due for a big raise, it is unlikely that Boston keeps him, etc. all of which drive his trade value down. That said, if you can trade a 3rd string PG for a likely 2nd string center, I think it is a trade Boston would consider, especially given the financial implications of Rozier next summer (where you get an extra year of Poeltl at his rookie scale dollars).
-
I could be wrong, but i see this as the best situation for Terry. Personally, I think he's an excellent bench guy. Maybe even 6th man of the year good. But that's it. He's got a lot of energy, handles the ball pretty well, and can shot a bit.
Guess I'm missing something, but I just don't see him as a starting point guard an a championship team. To me he's more of a Lou Williams kind of guy.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
Up until last year'year's playoffs, I was a big proponent of Rozier being a great bench guy (but not starting quality). My comparison has always been Leandro Barbosa (minus the 6MOTY award)
After the last playoffs, though, I think he can have a solid (if unspectacular) career as a starter. He can't be a top 2 or 3 player on a championship squad, but I think he can definitely be a good starter on one (or a 6MOTY candidate on a contender)
-
Rozier + minor asset(s) for Mikal Bridges
The Suns need a starting PG. They might be interested in Rozier.
We need a backup shooter to put next to Smart. Bridges fits the bill.
Not convinced we need a pure scorer next to Smart. It's only logical to assume that at least one of our starters will always be on the floor to lead the second unit. Not to mention, we have Morris as well.
-
Poeltl for Rozier would be an interesting trade for both teams.
Do you think Poeltl would have a long term spot here alongside Williams?
Rozier is worth way more than Poeltl. Not a Poeltl fan.
Rozier is a better player, but I don't think he is getting much more than someone like Poeltl or a mid-1st round pick. I don't think a lot of teams really think Rozier can be a championship level starter, he is expiring and due for a big raise, it is unlikely that Boston keeps him, etc. all of which drive his trade value down. That said, if you can trade a 3rd string PG for a likely 2nd string center, I think it is a trade Boston would consider, especially given the financial implications of Rozier next summer (where you get an extra year of Poeltl at his rookie scale dollars).
The minutes allocation with Smart and Rozier will affect this conversation quite a bit. Its just preseason, but Rozier looks like someone who is continuing to get better, and Smart looks stuck. I don't know how Stevens is going to make this work, but if I had to guess, Marcus Smart is going to lose out, and Rozier will be the one getting more of the minutes. Everyone loves Marcus, but he hasn't had serious competition for minutes until this year. It will be very interesting watching the C's because they are finally going to be forced to choose.
-
Poeltl for Rozier would be an interesting trade for both teams.
Do you think Poeltl would have a long term spot here alongside Williams?
Rozier is worth way more than Poeltl. Not a Poeltl fan.
Rozier is a better player, but I don't think he is getting much more than someone like Poeltl or a mid-1st round pick. I don't think a lot of teams really think Rozier can be a championship level starter, he is expiring and due for a big raise, it is unlikely that Boston keeps him, etc. all of which drive his trade value down. That said, if you can trade a 3rd string PG for a likely 2nd string center, I think it is a trade Boston would consider, especially given the financial implications of Rozier next summer (where you get an extra year of Poeltl at his rookie scale dollars).
I'd take Rozier for this year and let him walk rather than trade him for Poeltl. Did I mention I'm not a Poeltl fan?
-
New rule on CS:
re-sign equals "sign again"
resign equals "to quit"
I believe that following this simple rule throughout the season will save us from a lot of cardiac arrest.
Mike
I haven't read through this thread yet..so idk what you are referring to but i literally lol'd because i was at the garden event last night, and my gf (from another country but with extremely good English) when i asked her "did you hear the big news"...she responded "but why is Kyrie quitting?"..i said "what?" ...she says..."he said he's resigning"
Love foreign chicks. What country is she from?
Philippines:)
Lucky you! There's a Filipino poker dealer (Roxanne but people call her Roxy) at Foxwoods that is absolutely gorgeous. If it's her you're a very lucky guy lol.
-
Poeltl for Rozier would be an interesting trade for both teams.
Do you think Poeltl would have a long term spot here alongside Williams?
Rozier is worth way more than Poeltl. Not a Poeltl fan.
Rozier is a better player, but I don't think he is getting much more than someone like Poeltl or a mid-1st round pick. I don't think a lot of teams really think Rozier can be a championship level starter, he is expiring and due for a big raise, it is unlikely that Boston keeps him, etc. all of which drive his trade value down. That said, if you can trade a 3rd string PG for a likely 2nd string center, I think it is a trade Boston would consider, especially given the financial implications of Rozier next summer (where you get an extra year of Poeltl at his rookie scale dollars).
The minutes allocation with Smart and Rozier will affect this conversation quite a bit. Its just preseason, but Rozier looks like someone who is continuing to get better, and Smart looks stuck. I don't know how Stevens is going to make this work, but if I had to guess, Marcus Smart is going to lose out, and Rozier will be the one getting more of the minutes. Everyone loves Marcus, but he hasn't had serious competition for minutes until this year. It will be very interesting watching the C's because they are finally going to be forced to choose.
It’s only preseason so I wouldn’t read too much into it. With that said Smart missed game 1 and basically game 4. In games 2 and 3 when both Smart and Rozier played Smart actually had more minutes 44 to Rozier’s 40. Smart actually outscored Rozier 15 to 6 in game 3 too.
-
Rozier is the right backup PG for this team. He plays as hard as anyone we've got. He is flawe, but we have an all star PG already.
An opposing coach has to scheme for Rozier/Smart off the bench. I honestly think their presence on the bench changes the opposition's rotations.
I ask if any of you guy can rate Rozier as a backup guard in the NBA. This might get a better valuation model for him if they did trade him.
Is Rozier the "best" backup guard in the NBA? Looked good in last year's playoffs
-
Some have suggested that he is similar to Barbosa, which may be true.
Barbosa signed (after his rookie deal) a 5.6 million dollar contract 5 year contract with 500k raises each year, which was roughly 10% of the salary cap. Next year, a comparable contract for Rozier would be 11 million a year over 5 years. With the 8% raises, that would be a 5 year/64 million dollar contract.
He might get more than that on the open market. Just thought I throw the comparable numbers if you think he is a comparable player.
Edit: In the off-chance he signs that kind of a contract and Al is the kind of guy I think he is and will opt out to sign a more team-friendly deal, there's an outside chance we could be under the luxury tax next season, even with Kyrie at the max and resigning Rozier.
In that case, maybe we shouldn't trade Rozier.
-
This author seems to think Rozier/Smart for Kemba Walker makes sense.
Makes really no sense to me though
https://www.inquisitr.com/5107920/nba-rumors-celtics-could-trade-terry-rozier-and-marcus-smart-for-kemba-walker-fadeaway-world-suggests/
-
This author seems to think Rozier/Smart for Kemba Walker makes sense.
Makes really no sense to me though
https://www.inquisitr.com/5107920/nba-rumors-celtics-could-trade-terry-rozier-and-marcus-smart-for-kemba-walker-fadeaway-world-suggests/
Actually, at the end of the article the author states it's a no brainer for Charlotte and that it makes no sense for the Celtics considering Kyrie is in Boston. A very odd end to a trade proposal article.
-
This author seems to think Rozier/Smart for Kemba Walker makes sense.
Makes really no sense to me though
https://www.inquisitr.com/5107920/nba-rumors-celtics-could-trade-terry-rozier-and-marcus-smart-for-kemba-walker-fadeaway-world-suggests/
Actually, at the end of the article the author states it's a no brainer for Charlotte and that it makes no sense for the Celtics considering Kyrie is in Boston. A very odd end to a trade proposal article.
TP I didnt make it that far since the trade logic seemed so dumb to me.
-
A quick exit in the playoffs is what trading Rozier would get us. There is a huge dropoff at guards after Smart, Irving and Brown and Terry. Of Smart and Rozier both can be impactful but Terry is the more reliable scorer and shooter.
I think what I have seen of Wanamaker and Lemon, that we would be in deep doggy doo if they had to play extended minutes against nba rotation players.
-
A quick exit in the playoffs is what trading Rozier would get us. There is a huge dropoff at guards after Smart, Irving and Brown and Terry. Of Smart and Rozier both can be impactful but Terry is the more reliable scorer and shooter.
I think what I have seen of Wanamaker and Lemon, that we would be in deep doggy doo if they had to play extended minutes against nba rotation players.
Do you seriously think Terry is the difference between this team making the ECF vs this team flunking in the first or second round? Lol
-
A quick exit in the playoffs is what trading Rozier would get us. There is a huge dropoff at guards after Smart, Irving and Brown and Terry. Of Smart and Rozier both can be impactful but Terry is the more reliable scorer and shooter.
I think what I have seen of Wanamaker and Lemon, that we would be in deep doggy doo if they had to play extended minutes against nba rotation players.
Do you seriously think Terry is the difference between this team making the ECF vs this team flunking in the first or second round? Lol
Well that’s what he said lol
I think Scary Terry could be the difference between winning the ECF and Finals though. That’s why I don’t think he’ll be traded.
-
Celts still have a 3-man rotation of real guards (Smart, Rozier, Irving). I know Brown starts as a pseudo-2, but he is really a shooting forward. Plus Stevens and his PG, Perimeters & Bigs philosophy allows for all sorts of combos. Finally, we need Smart's defense and toughness to contend for a title. I see Marcus Smart getting his share of minutes.
-
Do you seriously think Terry is the difference between this team making the ECF vs this team flunking in the first or second round? Lol
LOL, I think it is I who will have the last laugh, I will attempt to explain it to you.
This was the case last year, was it not. Kyrie was injured and we rode the Rozier train the ECF, maybe you were overseas in the military and did not observe this? Perhaps you're visually impaired could be any number of reasons you did not see this happening.
Irving has never played more than 75 games in a season. He had injuries in his one season of college as well.
51, 59. 71, 75, 53, 72, and 60 are his games played for the first 7 seasons.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
that is 441 out of 574 games or in other words, he has played in 77% of the games he has been in the league. So yes, I think we need a reliable back up with Kyrie.
As for the playoffs, when last I looked he did not play in them last year.
Well that’s what he said lol
It is exactly what I said. I think I am right in this assertion, last year we would not have made it this far without Scary Terry. I am not willing to bet on Irving's health although I want him to be 100% and healthy.
-
Do you seriously think Terry is the difference between this team making the ECF vs this team flunking in the first or second round? Lol
LOL, I think it is I who will have the last laugh, I will attempt to explain it to you.
This was the case last year, was it not. Kyrie was injured and we rode the Rozier train the ECF, maybe you were overseas in the military and did not observe this? Perhaps you're visually impaired could be any number of reasons you did not see this happening.
Irving has never played more than 75 games in a season. He had injuries in his one season of college as well.
51, 59. 71, 75, 53, 72, and 60 are his games played for the first 7 seasons.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
that is 441 out of 574 games or in other words, he has played in 77% of the games he has been in the league. So yes, I think we need a reliable back up with Kyrie.
As for the playoffs, when last I looked he did not play in them last year.
Well that’s what he said lol
It is exactly what I said. I think I am right in this assertion, last year we would not have made it this far without Scary Terry. I am not willing to bet on Irving's health although I want him to be 100% and healthy.
don't forget the playoffs. He missed them entirely last year and missed a large portion of the Cavs first run (including the last 5 finals games). It is one thing to miss a couple of weeks in January, it is entirely another to miss the playoffs.
-
Do you seriously think Terry is the difference between this team making the ECF vs this team flunking in the first or second round? Lol
LOL, I think it is I who will have the last laugh, I will attempt to explain it to you.
This was the case last year, was it not. Kyrie was injured and we rode the Rozier train the ECF, maybe you were overseas in the military and did not observe this? Perhaps you're visually impaired could be any number of reasons you did not see this happening.
Irving has never played more than 75 games in a season. He had injuries in his one season of college as well.
51, 59. 71, 75, 53, 72, and 60 are his games played for the first 7 seasons.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
that is 441 out of 574 games or in other words, he has played in 77% of the games he has been in the league. So yes, I think we need a reliable back up with Kyrie.
As for the playoffs, when last I looked he did not play in them last year.
Well that’s what he said lol
It is exactly what I said. I think I am right in this assertion, last year we would not have made it this far without Scary Terry. I am not willing to bet on Irving's health although I want him to be 100% and healthy.
The way you phrased it to me came off as if you were talking long-term that we would suddenly become a scrappy playoff team rather than a true contender in the future.
It doesn’t make sense to me why you would assert that about trading TRoz. As far as I can tell most of the thread is concerned with future consequences, not what would have happened last season had we moved him.
-
I think Danny goes all in with him...keeps him long term....
-
Celts still have a 3-man rotation of real guards (Smart, Rozier, Irving). I know Brown starts as a pseudo-2, but he is really a shooting forward. Plus Stevens and his PG, Perimeters & Bigs philosophy allows for all sorts of combos. Finally, we need Smart's defense and toughness to contend for a title. I see Marcus Smart getting his share of minutes.
Brother Marcus has consistently played starter's minutes, including last season - he was once again 5th on the team, per game. So I think you're making a good bet.
We've heard so much about the New Positions: Ballhandlers, Wings, Swings, and Bigs; but as things have always been in the NBA, the players that break the mold have an advantage. It's true that Marcus is usually listed as a Point Guard, and it's also true that he functions as a Ballhandler. But he's almost always in the game with another Ballhandler and takes a wing to guard.
Brown as a "shooting forward"? There's yet another designation (lol!), and I'm sympathetic to you and everyone else who's trying to navigate this maze.
Brown's edge is that he's got so much speed at his size, that smaller wings are at a disadvantage in guarding him.
-
Celts still have a 3-man rotation of real guards (Smart, Rozier, Irving). I know Brown starts as a pseudo-2, but he is really a shooting forward. Plus Stevens and his PG, Perimeters & Bigs philosophy allows for all sorts of combos. Finally, we need Smart's defense and toughness to contend for a title. I see Marcus Smart getting his share of minutes.
Brother Marcus has consistently played starter's minutes, including last season - he was once again 5th on the team, per game. So I think you're making a good bet.
We've heard so much about the New Positions: Ballhandlers, Wings, Swings, and Bigs; but as things have always been in the NBA, the players that break the mold have an advantage. It's true that Marcus is usually listed as a Point Guard, and it's also true that he functions as a Ballhandler. But he's almost always in the game with another Ballhandler and takes a wing to guard.
Brown as a "shooting forward"? There's yet another designation (lol!), and I'm sympathetic to you and everyone else who's trying to navigate this maze.
Brown's edge is that he's got so much speed at his size, that smaller wings are at a disadvantage in guarding him.
In the NBA, positions have never really mattered. Jokic is the best passer on the Nuggets, he led the team in assists last year and the offense ran through him. Is he not the point guard?
Steph Curry is always referred to as a PG, and I wouldn't argue it, but Draymond has led the Warriors in assists the last 3 years and Klay Thompson plays defense on a lot of the opposing teams' pg's. If Steph isn't the leading playmaker and doesn't always guard opposing pg's why do we all think he's a pg?
It's easy to go through history and see these kind of positional designations are hazy, at best, and useless at worst.
-
Celts still have a 3-man rotation of real guards (Smart, Rozier, Irving). I know Brown starts as a pseudo-2, but he is really a shooting forward. Plus Stevens and his PG, Perimeters & Bigs philosophy allows for all sorts of combos. Finally, we need Smart's defense and toughness to contend for a title. I see Marcus Smart getting his share of minutes.
Brother Marcus has consistently played starter's minutes, including last season - he was once again 5th on the team, per game. So I think you're making a good bet.
We've heard so much about the New Positions: Ballhandlers, Wings, Swings, and Bigs; but as things have always been in the NBA, the players that break the mold have an advantage. It's true that Marcus is usually listed as a Point Guard, and it's also true that he functions as a Ballhandler. But he's almost always in the game with another Ballhandler and takes a wing to guard.
Brown as a "shooting forward"? There's yet another designation (lol!), and I'm sympathetic to you and everyone else who's trying to navigate this maze.
Brown's edge is that he's got so much speed at his size, that smaller wings are at a disadvantage in guarding him.
In the NBA, positions have never really mattered. Jokic is the best passer on the Nuggets, he led the team in assists last year and the offense ran through him. Is he not the point guard?
Steph Curry is always referred to as a PG, and I wouldn't argue it, but Draymond has led the Warriors in assists the last 3 years and Klay Thompson plays defense on a lot of the opposing teams' pg's. If Steph isn't the leading playmaker and doesn't always guard opposing pg's why do we all think he's a pg?
It's easy to go through history and see these kind of positional designations are hazy, at best, and useless at worst.
I think you're right. The trouble with all those positions - not excluding all those new ones, like ballhandlers, swings, etc., is that the ones that break the mold have an advantage. Jaylen Brown is too big, long, and strong for "traditional" shooting guards, for example.
We always go wrong when we try to fit a player to a preconceived role, instead of a role to a player.
-
What if Butler wins over the Minny ownership? What if KAT is suddenly the one on the outside? What if they slap a full max extension offer on the table for Butler and trade Wiggins and Kat for players around him.
Would Rozier-Morris-Williams-Kings pick get it done? Minny gets two dogs to go with Butler. I think Rozier would play well with him. Williams is a good prospect for Thibs' defensive system. They coudl trade the Kings pick for another big name who is more ready to win.
I realize KAT seems soft and all, but he might be a perfect buy-low guy right now.
Then, the Grizz could trade Dieng, Wiggins, Teague, and Sac pick (with salary filler) for Conley and Gasol.
Minny's new lineup is Conley-Rozier-Butler-Morris-Gasol with Williams-Tolliver-Rose-Deng-Okogie off the bench.
Anyway. Thanks for going with me on that journey to the land of improbability.
-
What if Butler wins over the Minny ownership? What if KAT is suddenly the one on the outside? What if they slap a full max extension offer on the table for Butler and trade Wiggins and Kat for players around him.
Would Rozier-Morris-Williams-Kings pick get it done? Minny gets two dogs to go with Butler. I think Rozier would play well with him. Williams is a good prospect for Thibs' defensive system. They coudl trade the Kings pick for another big name who is more ready to win.
I realize KAT seems soft and all, but he might be a perfect buy-low guy right now.
Then, the Grizz could trade Dieng, Wiggins, Teague, and Sac pick (with salary filler) for Conley and Gasol.
Minny's new lineup is Conley-Rozier-Butler-Morris-Gasol with Williams-Tolliver-Rose-Deng-Okogie off the bench.
Anyway. Thanks for going with me on that journey to the land of improbability.
Getting KAT for cheap would be an amazing pickup for us. I’m not his biggest fan, particularly after his recent showing, but anytime you can get a big man that has had multiple 20/12 seasons and is still effectively a kid, you have to
-
Dont want rozier to leave but he wants starter money at 4 years, around 20 million a year..sorry buddy u not getting that here unless kyrie leaves
-
What if Butler wins over the Minny ownership? What if KAT is suddenly the one on the outside? What if they slap a full max extension offer on the table for Butler and trade Wiggins and Kat for players around him.
Would Rozier-Morris-Williams-Kings pick get it done? Minny gets two dogs to go with Butler. I think Rozier would play well with him. Williams is a good prospect for Thibs' defensive system. They coudl trade the Kings pick for another big name who is more ready to win.
I realize KAT seems soft and all, but he might be a perfect buy-low guy right now.
Then, the Grizz could trade Dieng, Wiggins, Teague, and Sac pick (with salary filler) for Conley and Gasol.
Minny's new lineup is Conley-Rozier-Butler-Morris-Gasol with Williams-Tolliver-Rose-Deng-Okogie off the bench.
Anyway. Thanks for going with me on that journey to the land of improbability.
Minnesota would be dumber than any of us ever thought if they chose Butler over Wiggins AND Towns.
Both of those players are still so young and clearly way more talented than Butler.
Choosing to build over a guy who cannot be the lead dog would be a grave mistake. If they can’t make it work, rid themselves of Butler.
-
What if Butler wins over the Minny ownership? What if KAT is suddenly the one on the outside? What if they slap a full max extension offer on the table for Butler and trade Wiggins and Kat for players around him.
Would Rozier-Morris-Williams-Kings pick get it done? Minny gets two dogs to go with Butler. I think Rozier would play well with him. Williams is a good prospect for Thibs' defensive system. They coudl trade the Kings pick for another big name who is more ready to win.
I realize KAT seems soft and all, but he might be a perfect buy-low guy right now.
Then, the Grizz could trade Dieng, Wiggins, Teague, and Sac pick (with salary filler) for Conley and Gasol.
Minny's new lineup is Conley-Rozier-Butler-Morris-Gasol with Williams-Tolliver-Rose-Deng-Okogie off the bench.
Anyway. Thanks for going with me on that journey to the land of improbability.
Minnesota would be dumber than any of us ever thought if they chose Butler over Wiggins AND Towns.
Both of those players are still so young and clearly way more talented than Butler.
Choosing to build over a guy who cannot be the lead dog would be a grave mistake. If they can’t make it work, rid themselves of Butler.
Wiggins is most certainly not more talented than Butler. Wiggins is looking more and more like he's a bench player.
Towns could be, but the guy has no heart.
The only reason you keep Towns over Butler is age and upside.
-
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2800542-celtics-rumors-terry-rozier-wont-receive-contract-extension-prior-to-deadline
"The Boston Celtics and point guard Terry Rozier are reportedly not expected to reach an agreement before Monday's deadline to sign players to a rookie-scale contract extension.
On Friday, Adam Himmelsbach of the Boston Globe reported Rozier is focused on proving he can become a starter at the NBA level before signing a long-term deal. He's hopeful of landing a contract worth around $20 million per season next summer as a restricted free agent.
The 24-year-old University of Louisville product has spent most of his first three NBA seasons as a reserve for Boston. He's averaged 7.2 points, 3.5 rebounds and 2.1 assists while shooting 35.5 percent from three-point range across 193 appearances (16 starts).
Rozier shined during last season's playoffs with Kyrie Irving sidelined after knee surgery. He put up 16.5 points, 5.7 assists, 5.3 rebounds and 1.3 steals as the full-time starter for 19 games. His average of 36.6 minutes in those contests was up nearly 11 minutes from the regular season (25.9 MPG).
Trying to translate that success into the new campaign could provide difficult because of the Celtics' backcourt depth. The 2015 first-round pick is set to battle with Irving, Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown on the perimeter, which will likely limit his minutes again.
Tom Westerholm of MassLive noted Celtics head coach Brad Stevens said Thursday the organization has made it clear to Rozier they want him on the roster for a long time despite the contract uncertainty:
"I think it's very clear how all of us—players, coaches and front office, people in Boston, everybody you run into—how they feel about Terry. And it'd be great if we could have him here for a long, long, time. But I don't get into that with contract negotiations and discussions. But kind of like we talked with Marcus last summer, he knew very directly how I feel about it. And I think that he's a really good player, and I hope he's here for a long time."
His future is probably heavily dependent on how Irving decides to handle his own contract situation. He can utilize a player option to become an unrestricted free agent after the 2018-19 season.
If Boston's starting point guard decides to sign a lucrative long-term extension, it would prove difficult for the front office to keep Rozier if he's still seeking a deal in the neighborhood of $20 million annually.
Should Irving leave, however, the Celtics will have more financial flexibility to fit Rozier under the salary cap, while still seeking upgrades elsewhere on the roster next summer."
Seems pretty clear that it's unlikely we'll be able to keep Rozier next year if he is looking for that kind of contract. Granted, that doesn't necessarily mean we should trade him rather than losing him for nothing either, especially if Danny and Brad feel like he will help us in the playoffs.
If we do trade him, a shooter/scorer off the bench plus draft compensation would be what I'm looking for in a Rozier trade.
-
Trade him and dont look back. Get a 2020 pick and any solid backup guard. Use pick in package for Davis
20 mill a year is ridiculous
-
His value to the team this season is worth more than he can fetch in a trade.
-
I've been high on TR for a good while. I can see him starting on a playoff team next year. Sure. He can shoot, but his step is just catlike quick. He can do it, and that job easily pays $20M per, a good deal less than the max these days, when the top top players are due for $40M pretty soon.
It's hard to expect a guy on his rookie deal to not want the big deal, and a good step up for a player once deep in Portland.
Will Kyrie step up? He needs to do like the guys in Miami did and more recently in GS and leave some money on the table for TR.
Danny and the owners probably have a basic roster/salary structure all charted out by position and role. The only questions really are whether that backup guard salary slot is taken by Marcus, (I do think his contract is about spot on for a 3rd guard,) if Danny would keep 2 at that price, would Kyrie kick in, and Rozier accept the role. If it flies, it's a model for Horford/Brown and Hayward/Tatum down the line, and they all g t to play in the Finals for the next decade.
Anything is possible.
-
Rozier's gone because he wants to start.
-
I think if we want to challenge Warriors or anyone of that level in comming years, we should have both of them, Irving and Rozier.
Thank You
-
He's easily worth 20 million a year if Irving is worth 30-40 million lol.
-
Ok bye bye Rozier. Thank you for the big moments last year. But I won't forget about Game 7 of the ECF, which still has a lingering-ill effect on me.
If you had just shown up in that game we would've eliminated LeBron James.
-
Ok bye bye Rozier. Thank you for the big moments last year. But I won't forget about Game 7 of the ECF, which still has a lingering-ill effect on me.
If you had just shown up in that game we would've eliminated LeBron James.
He heavily outperformed expectations the entire year.
I'll take some good, and some more good, with the bad.
-
Of course Rozier is insurance against an Irving injury, but also in an indirect way insurance against a Smart, Brown, Tatum, or Hayward injury.
What I mean by that is say Hayward or Tatum gets injured Brown or even Smart for that matter can easily play more of the wing/forward position opening up playing time for Rozier at the 2 spot as well as backup PG minutes. If say Brown gets hurt I think Rozier can easily play alongside Irving in a starting role. Of course if Smart gets hurt Rozier can eat up most of the back up guard minutes behind Irving and Brown.
Over the course of a long season there are going to be enough opportunities to play significant playing time. Maybe not starting minutes but close enough, and if you are playing important minutes on a contender that is more important for some players.
What it comes down to is if Rozier is content to play that role, and if ownership is willing to go deep in the tax to retain the best possible team for the near future.
-
Of course Rozier is insurance against an Irving injury, but also in an indirect way insurance against a Smart, Brown, Tatum, or Hayward injury.
What I mean by that is say Hayward or Tatum gets injured Brown or even Smart for that matter can easily play more of the wing/forward position opening up playing time for Rozier at the 2 spot as well as backup PG minutes. If say Brown gets hurt I think Rozier can easily play alongside Irving in a starting role. Of course if Smart gets hurt Rozier can eat up most of the back up guard minutes behind Irving and Brown.
Over the course of a long season there are going to be enough opportunities to play significant playing time. Maybe not starting minutes but close enough, and if you are playing important minutes on a contender that is more important for some players.
What it comes down to is if Rozier is content to play that role, and if ownership is willing to go deep in the tax to retain the best possible team for the near future.
This is exactly my pitch if I got to make one, and it really is a pitch from a fan to everybody concerned.
Owners need to believe he's worth the tax, which means he is a key piece to contending/winning.
Danny needs to see how he fits and makes the whole work better and is worth securing long term.
Stevens needs to see how he adds versatility.
He needs to appreciate playing 28 minutes with us into the Finals for something closer to Smart money than 20 (maybe 15?) and getting playoff pay plus guaranteed national tv exposure is far, far superior to being the starting PG in Phoenix, never making the playoffs, and getting one nationally televised game each year, but for $20M. Screw that.
-
Trade him and dont look back. Get a 2020 pick and any solid backup guard. Use pick in package for Davis
20 mill a year is ridiculous
This^
-
Ok bye bye Rozier. Thank you for the big moments last year. But I won't forget about Game 7 of the ECF, which still has a lingering-ill effect on me.
If you had just shown up in that game we would've eliminated LeBron James.
selective memory ....... usual fan disease
-
He [Rozier] needs to appreciate playing 28 minutes with us into the Finals for something closer to Smart money than 20 (maybe 15?) and getting playoff pay plus guaranteed national tv exposure is far, far superior to being the starting PG in Phoenix, never making the playoffs, and getting one nationally televised game each year, but for $20M. Screw that.
You honestly believe that being a backup as opposed to a starter, playing less minutes, and making significantly less money is a more desirable path for Rozier? Just because he'd get a better chance at winning, and more national exposure?
I seriously doubt Rozier shares that sentiment, nor should he.
-
He [Rozier] needs to appreciate playing 28 minutes with us into the Finals for something closer to Smart money than 20 (maybe 15?) and getting playoff pay plus guaranteed national tv exposure is far, far superior to being the starting PG in Phoenix, never making the playoffs, and getting one nationally televised game each year, but for $20M. Screw that.
You honestly believe that being a backup as opposed to a starter, playing less minutes, and making significantly less money is a more desirable path for Rozier? Just because he'd get a better chance at winning, and more national exposure?
I seriously doubt Rozier shares that sentiment, nor should he.
Yeah, I think most young guys -- rightfully, in my opinion -- are going to value playing time and money over starting.
Later in their careers, when they're wildly rich and well-established, is the time when most guys start appreciating the chance at a ring.
-
He's easily worth 20 million a year if Irving is worth 30-40 million lol.
Yeah, in a league where Chris Paul is going to be making $40 million a year, Terry Rozier has to be worth $20 mil, right?
But I don't think he's worth that to the Celtics. Not with Kyrie and with Smart on a lesser deal and so many other point guards out there. A sign-and-trade next summer is probably ideal but I know the logistics of those kinds of deals have gotten really complicated so I don't know how realistic it is.
-
He [Rozier] needs to appreciate playing 28 minutes with us into the Finals for something closer to Smart money than 20 (maybe 15?) and getting playoff pay plus guaranteed national tv exposure is far, far superior to being the starting PG in Phoenix, never making the playoffs, and getting one nationally televised game each year, but for $20M. Screw that.
You honestly believe that being a backup as opposed to a starter, playing less minutes, and making significantly less money is a more desirable path for Rozier? Just because he'd get a better chance at winning, and more national exposure?
I seriously doubt Rozier shares that sentiment, nor should he.
Yeah, I think most young guys -- rightfully, in my opinion -- are going to value playing time and money over starting.
Later in their careers, when they're wildly rich and well-established, is the time when most guys start appreciating the chance at a ring.
In an era though where midsized contracts makes you wildly rich a 4 year 60 mil contract with the C’s verses a 4 year 80 mil contract with another team will still make you wildly rich. You get to a point with money you can only spend so much.
I also think people around the league know how good Rozier is. I don’t think the preception of Rozier will change all that much if he stays with us verses another team where he becomes a mid level NBA starting point guard. Maybe I’m just too optimistic about it though.
-
Someone like Phoenix would overpay him
-
Rozier's gone because he wants to start.
And he would start for a lot of teams in this league. I was surprised to see that he was even having talks with the Celtics about an extension. He won't get what he's worth staying here - unless Kyrie goes.
That all said I don't believe he's a starter for a team that thinks it has a chance of winning a conference. His overall play on the road is not great and that's the difference between a reliable starter for a good team - and a rotation player who can start for the bottom 15+ teams in the league. You get paid a lot better starting for a lesser team.
-
Don't overpay your role players.
-
Aren't you tired of this free agency nonsense that we have to put up with every year? A team develops a player and three years later team owners have to make up their minds if want to sign him or not. (That's if he want to resign with the team.)
It's at the point where the financial, trading and acquisition skills of the GM are more important than player skills.
Why not just read the Wall Street Journal and market reports. Then, invest your money. At least you'll be able to decide if a commodity is worth paying for or not. You can buy or sell whenever you want to.
I wish we could back to just playing basketball. I tired of these shenanigans!!!
-
Don't overpay your role players.
Pat Riley wants to have a word with you.
-
who is begging for an old fashion DA fleecing?
-
He [Rozier] needs to appreciate playing 28 minutes with us into the Finals for something closer to Smart money than 20 (maybe 15?) and getting playoff pay plus guaranteed national tv exposure is far, far superior to being the starting PG in Phoenix, never making the playoffs, and getting one nationally televised game each year, but for $20M. Screw that.
You honestly believe that being a backup as opposed to a starter, playing less minutes, and making significantly less money is a more desirable path for Rozier? Just because he'd get a better chance at winning, and more national exposure?
I seriously doubt Rozier shares that sentiment, nor should he.
Yeah, I think most young guys -- rightfully, in my opinion -- are going to value playing time and money over starting.
Later in their careers, when they're wildly rich and well-established, is the time when most guys start appreciating the chance at a ring.
In an era though where midsized contracts makes you wildly rich a 4 year 60 mil contract with the C’s verses a 4 year 80 mil contract with another team will still make you wildly rich. You get to a point with money you can only spend so much.
I also think people around the league know how good Rozier is. I don’t think the preception of Rozier will change all that much if he stays with us verses another team where he becomes a mid level NBA starting point guard. Maybe I’m just too optimistic about it though.
I hear people say this some times but the behavior of basically all very wealthy people seems to suggest the exact opposite attitudes toward money.
-
He [Rozier] needs to appreciate playing 28 minutes with us into the Finals for something closer to Smart money than 20 (maybe 15?) and getting playoff pay plus guaranteed national tv exposure is far, far superior to being the starting PG in Phoenix, never making the playoffs, and getting one nationally televised game each year, but for $20M. Screw that.
You honestly believe that being a backup as opposed to a starter, playing less minutes, and making significantly less money is a more desirable path for Rozier? Just because he'd get a better chance at winning, and more national exposure?
I seriously doubt Rozier shares that sentiment, nor should he.
Yeah, I think most young guys -- rightfully, in my opinion -- are going to value playing time and money over starting.
Later in their careers, when they're wildly rich and well-established, is the time when most guys start appreciating the chance at a ring.
In an era though where midsized contracts makes you wildly rich a 4 year 60 mil contract with the C’s verses a 4 year 80 mil contract with another team will still make you wildly rich. You get to a point with money you can only spend so much.
I also think people around the league know how good Rozier is. I don’t think the preception of Rozier will change all that much if he stays with us verses another team where he becomes a mid level NBA starting point guard. Maybe I’m just too optimistic about it though.
I don't necessarily agree on the money aspect.
Let's say he gets to keep $40 million out of a $60 million contract after taxes, agent fees, etc.
That's $40 million to last what, 60 years or so? Now, sure, $700k per year should be plenty, especially if he invests it properly. But, since when did NBA players stick to a budget and make solid investments?
-
He [Rozier] needs to appreciate playing 28 minutes with us into the Finals for something closer to Smart money than 20 (maybe 15?) and getting playoff pay plus guaranteed national tv exposure is far, far superior to being the starting PG in Phoenix, never making the playoffs, and getting one nationally televised game each year, but for $20M. Screw that.
You honestly believe that being a backup as opposed to a starter, playing less minutes, and making significantly less money is a more desirable path for Rozier? Just because he'd get a better chance at winning, and more national exposure?
I seriously doubt Rozier shares that sentiment, nor should he.
Yeah, I think most young guys -- rightfully, in my opinion -- are going to value playing time and money over starting.
Later in their careers, when they're wildly rich and well-established, is the time when most guys start appreciating the chance at a ring.
In an era though where midsized contracts makes you wildly rich a 4 year 60 mil contract with the C’s verses a 4 year 80 mil contract with another team will still make you wildly rich. You get to a point with money you can only spend so much.
I also think people around the league know how good Rozier is. I don’t think the preception of Rozier will change all that much if he stays with us verses another team where he becomes a mid level NBA starting point guard. Maybe I’m just too optimistic about it though.
I don't necessarily agree on the money aspect.
Let's say he gets to keep $40 million out of a $60 million contract after taxes, agent fees, etc.
That's $40 million to last what, 60 years or so? Now, sure, $700k per year should be plenty, especially if he invests it properly. But, since when did NBA players stick to a budget and make solid investments?
How are you coming up with that amount? Let’s take the average rate of return in the stock market of 7%. To get to $700,000 a year you probably need about 10 mil. If you want that net amount after taxes, fees ect you are probably talking about 20 mil safely saved away.
-
He [Rozier] needs to appreciate playing 28 minutes with us into the Finals for something closer to Smart money than 20 (maybe 15?) and getting playoff pay plus guaranteed national tv exposure is far, far superior to being the starting PG in Phoenix, never making the playoffs, and getting one nationally televised game each year, but for $20M. Screw that.
You honestly believe that being a backup as opposed to a starter, playing less minutes, and making significantly less money is a more desirable path for Rozier? Just because he'd get a better chance at winning, and more national exposure?
I seriously doubt Rozier shares that sentiment, nor should he.
Yeah, I think most young guys -- rightfully, in my opinion -- are going to value playing time and money over starting.
Later in their careers, when they're wildly rich and well-established, is the time when most guys start appreciating the chance at a ring.
In an era though where midsized contracts makes you wildly rich a 4 year 60 mil contract with the C’s verses a 4 year 80 mil contract with another team will still make you wildly rich. You get to a point with money you can only spend so much.
I also think people around the league know how good Rozier is. I don’t think the preception of Rozier will change all that much if he stays with us verses another team where he becomes a mid level NBA starting point guard. Maybe I’m just too optimistic about it though.
I don't necessarily agree on the money aspect.
Let's say he gets to keep $40 million out of a $60 million contract after taxes, agent fees, etc.
That's $40 million to last what, 60 years or so? Now, sure, $700k per year should be plenty, especially if he invests it properly. But, since when did NBA players stick to a budget and make solid investments?
How are you coming up with that amount? Let’s take the average rate of return in the stock market of 7%. To get to $700,000 a year you probably need about 10 mil. If you want that net amount after taxes, fees ect you are probably talking about 20 mil safely saved away.
I think it was merely 40000000/60 that Roy was doing
-
He [Rozier] needs to appreciate playing 28 minutes with us into the Finals for something closer to Smart money than 20 (maybe 15?) and getting playoff pay plus guaranteed national tv exposure is far, far superior to being the starting PG in Phoenix, never making the playoffs, and getting one nationally televised game each year, but for $20M. Screw that.
You honestly believe that being a backup as opposed to a starter, playing less minutes, and making significantly less money is a more desirable path for Rozier? Just because he'd get a better chance at winning, and more national exposure?
I seriously doubt Rozier shares that sentiment, nor should he.
Yeah, I think most young guys -- rightfully, in my opinion -- are going to value playing time and money over starting.
Later in their careers, when they're wildly rich and well-established, is the time when most guys start appreciating the chance at a ring.
In an era though where midsized contracts makes you wildly rich a 4 year 60 mil contract with the C’s verses a 4 year 80 mil contract with another team will still make you wildly rich. You get to a point with money you can only spend so much.
I also think people around the league know how good Rozier is. I don’t think the preception of Rozier will change all that much if he stays with us verses another team where he becomes a mid level NBA starting point guard. Maybe I’m just too optimistic about it though.
I don't necessarily agree on the money aspect.
Let's say he gets to keep $40 million out of a $60 million contract after taxes, agent fees, etc.
That's $40 million to last what, 60 years or so? Now, sure, $700k per year should be plenty, especially if he invests it properly. But, since when did NBA players stick to a budget and make solid investments?
How are you coming up with that amount? Let’s take the average rate of return in the stock market of 7%. To get to $700,000 a year you probably need about 10 mil. If you want that net amount after taxes, fees ect you are probably talking about 20 mil safely saved away.
$40 million divided by 60 years. That's roughly $700k. I don't think it's necessarily realistic to project a 7% return, when guys traditionally just haven't spent their money wisely.
-
He [Rozier] needs to appreciate playing 28 minutes with us into the Finals for something closer to Smart money than 20 (maybe 15?) and getting playoff pay plus guaranteed national tv exposure is far, far superior to being the starting PG in Phoenix, never making the playoffs, and getting one nationally televised game each year, but for $20M. Screw that.
You honestly believe that being a backup as opposed to a starter, playing less minutes, and making significantly less money is a more desirable path for Rozier? Just because he'd get a better chance at winning, and more national exposure?
I seriously doubt Rozier shares that sentiment, nor should he.
Yeah, I think most young guys -- rightfully, in my opinion -- are going to value playing time and money over starting.
Later in their careers, when they're wildly rich and well-established, is the time when most guys start appreciating the chance at a ring.
In an era though where midsized contracts makes you wildly rich a 4 year 60 mil contract with the C’s verses a 4 year 80 mil contract with another team will still make you wildly rich. You get to a point with money you can only spend so much.
I also think people around the league know how good Rozier is. I don’t think the preception of Rozier will change all that much if he stays with us verses another team where he becomes a mid level NBA starting point guard. Maybe I’m just too optimistic about it though.
I don't necessarily agree on the money aspect.
Let's say he gets to keep $40 million out of a $60 million contract after taxes, agent fees, etc.
That's $40 million to last what, 60 years or so? Now, sure, $700k per year should be plenty, especially if he invests it properly. But, since when did NBA players stick to a budget and make solid investments?
How are you coming up with that amount? Let’s take the average rate of return in the stock market of 7%. To get to $700,000 a year you probably need about 10 mil. If you want that net amount after taxes, fees ect you are probably talking about 20 mil safely saved away.
$40 million divided by 60 years. That's roughly $700k. I don't think it's necessarily realistic to project a 7% return, when guys traditionally just haven't spent their money wisely.
Well maybe traditionally it’s true, but with all the support systems/advisors that are in place today I would think players are making smarter choices. If not it’s on them, and I don’t feel too bad for them. If they care more about burning through their money, maybe it’s not the type of guy we want on our team.
-
Money or Glory, if Rozier can't appreciate being in this organization at this golden age then i have little concern letting him go, hopefully for AD
-
Money or Glory, if Rozier can't appreciate being in this organization at this golden age then i have little concern letting him go, hopefully for AD
I don't hold it against him. If he can get ET money, all the best to him.
-
Money or Glory, if Rozier can't appreciate being in this organization at this golden age then i have little concern letting him go, hopefully for AD
At this point in his career, he should prioritize money and playing time. He's not a fan, he's a player.
-
Money or Glory, if Rozier can't appreciate being in this organization at this golden age then i have little concern letting him go, hopefully for AD
At this point in his career, he should prioritize money and playing time. He's not a fan, he's a player.
I have no problem what his choice is. just saying that's not what our team need
-
Money or Glory, if Rozier can't appreciate being in this organization at this golden age then i have little concern letting him go, hopefully for AD
At this point in his career, he should prioritize money and playing time. He's not a fan, he's a player.
I have no problem what his choice is. just saying that's not what our team need
I think his off the bench scoring and insurance to a Kyrie injury for just this one season is worth more than what we could get in return for him. Plus, he seems to understand his role.
-
Money or Glory, if Rozier can't appreciate being in this organization at this golden age then i have little concern letting him go, hopefully for AD
At this point in his career, he should prioritize money and playing time. He's not a fan, he's a player.
I have no problem what his choice is. just saying that's not what our team need
I think his off the bench scoring and insurance to a Kyrie injury for just this one season is worth more than what we could get in return for him. Plus, he seems to understand his role.
Yeah, not saying we should trade him now, best outcome is a S/T for AD next summer, everybody happy
But if i'm him i wouldn't be want out for that 5 more million to play on a bad team when i can stay in the perfect environment with a dynasty, i still got millions money and i can make more money with the exposure/endorsements, just not a smart move for me
-
sadly he is probably gone next year. Sure the celtics could pay him 20million$ but it sounds like he wants to start for a team.
Danny is not going to trade him though. Same reason they are keeping morris even though it puts them over the tax. they are going for a championship this year. and having a team as stacked/deep as this puts them closer to beat golden state than a team without Rozier.
-
$20 million per season??? Lol. In his dreams.
And I like Rozier, but come on!
-
Money or Glory, if Rozier can't appreciate being in this organization at this golden age then i have little concern letting him go, hopefully for AD
At this point in his career, he should prioritize money and playing time. He's not a fan, he's a player.
I have no problem what his choice is. just saying that's not what our team need
I think his off the bench scoring and insurance to a Kyrie injury for just this one season is worth more than what we could get in return for him. Plus, he seems to understand his role.
Yeah, not saying we should trade him now, best outcome is a S/T for AD next summer, everybody happy
But if i'm him i wouldn't be want out for that 5 more million to play on a bad team when i can stay in the perfect environment with a dynasty, i still got millions money and i can make more money with the exposure/endorsements, just not a smart move for me
Rozier for AD? Really? I'm going to go out on a limb and say AD is never coming here - except in a Pelican or Laker uniform.
-
Money or Glory, if Rozier can't appreciate being in this organization at this golden age then i have little concern letting him go, hopefully for AD
At this point in his career, he should prioritize money and playing time. He's not a fan, he's a player.
I have no problem what his choice is. just saying that's not what our team need
I think his off the bench scoring and insurance to a Kyrie injury for just this one season is worth more than what we could get in return for him. Plus, he seems to understand his role.
Yeah, not saying we should trade him now, best outcome is a S/T for AD next summer, everybody happy
But if i'm him i wouldn't be want out for that 5 more million to play on a bad team when i can stay in the perfect environment with a dynasty, i still got millions money and i can make more money with the exposure/endorsements, just not a smart move for me
Rozier for AD? Really? I'm going to go out on a limb and say AD is never coming here - except in a Pelican or Laker uniform.
Why not?
-
Honestly, a good piece that can help the Celtics in a trade for AD next year.
And someone who would take Bird and waive him.
But I just don't think that will happen. What Rozier can do to help the Celtics this year is still greater then the possible outcome of a trade.
-
I don't know how many of us realistically thought Smart would get from the Celtics what he got. I know I was surprised.
But Rozier wanting $20/yr is laughable (the actual getting that money is) yet some want to trade him now because of that.
Don't we have a season to play where we have a very good team and need all the help we can get? Rozier can help ... a lot...so keep him and see what happens. He's not unrestricted so..
Plus, we are a place where ring chasers will want to play, not to mention a still half-full boat load of draft picks. Don't fret over a good player possibly leaving. It's going to happen one way or another.
-
If Rozier signs a deal that is considered discounted, he immediately becomes a very good trade chip. He will be brought up in any trade rumor.
-
$20 million a year is extremely reasonable for Rozier if he continues to trend up in his productivity and efficiency.
Comparing him to Bledsoe, Teague, Schroeder, and Jackson
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Reggie+Jackson&player_id1_select=Reggie+Jackson&player_id1=jacksre01&y1=2014&player_id2_hint=Dennis+Schroder&player_id2_select=Dennis+Schroder&y2=2017&player_id2=schrode01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Terry+Rozier&player_id3_select=Terry+Rozier&y3=2018&player_id3=roziete01&idx=players&player_id4_hint=Jeff+Teague&player_id4_select=Jeff+Teague&y4=2012&player_id4=teaguje01&idx=players&player_id5_hint=Eric+Bledsoe&player_id5_select=Eric+Bledsoe&y5=2013&player_id5=bledser01&idx=players
The 20 million dollar contract he'd sign would be roughly the percentage of what those guys got coming off their rookie contract.
-
I like how some of the past Celtics point guards have an over-inflated value of their worth on the open market.
Isaiah Thomas – I know he got injured and has not been the same since, but he was not going to be a max player.
Marcus Smart – I believe he was looking for $16M per. Resigns with C’s with a 4 year/$52M contract.
Terry Rozier – I wish him luck, but paying $20M per season for a backup to then start seems extreme.
I agree with some other posters, in that Rozier is more valuable to the Celtics this season, than anything they could receive of value in a trade. This team is built to win this season. With the wealth of draft picks that Danny still has, I’m sure he could draft a decent backup PG to replace Rozier.
-
I like how some of the past Celtics point guards have an over-inflated value of their worth on the open market.
Isaiah Thomas – I know he got injured and has not been the same since, but he was not going to be a max player.
Marcus Smart – I believe he was looking for $16M per. Resigns with C’s with a 4 year/$52M contract.
Terry Rozier – I wish him luck, but paying $20M per season for a backup to then start seems extreme.
I agree with some other posters, in that Rozier is more valuable to the Celtics this season, than anything they could receive of value in a trade. This team is built to win this season. With the wealth of draft picks that Danny still has, I’m sure he could draft a decent backup PG to replace Rozier.
Allen Crabbe, Tyler Johnson, and George Hill are all making $19 mil this season. $20 mil for Rozier, given what he did in the playoffs last year, is probably his market value.
-
Pay the man.
Pay the luxury tax.
Dream big.
-
I think Ainge might leverage Rozier vs Kyrie and somehow come out with something that fits under the cap. Or he might trade one of them if he has to. And it just might be Kyrie.
You have to wonder about Butler, but it appears he's a head case to avoid. Not much of a team player. A guy that wants to be the man.
-
Pay the man.
Pay the luxury tax.
Dream big.
I think ownership will spend into the luxury tax, but not enough to keep Rozier. I would love it if they did. Although, Rozier should and probably will leave for more playing time anyway... assuming Kyrie re-signs. We just have to appreciate his performance this season because it's likely his last with the team.
-
Pay the man.
Pay the luxury tax.
Dream big.
YES!
-
Pay the man.