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Other Discussions => Off Topic => Entertainment => Topic started by: PhoSita on December 10, 2015, 05:45:52 PM

Title: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: PhoSita on December 10, 2015, 05:45:52 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12314046_10206511231234126_570465637540066863_n.jpg?oh=8f5eb617ebdcf75a8221858edc1168bb&oe=56E5C484)


Also, this interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh1t2MJDbrs
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: jpotter33 on December 10, 2015, 06:04:34 PM
Honestly, I was really surprised to see you as the author of this post given the Halloween/free speech/appropriation debate we had awhile back. Lol
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: BballTim on December 10, 2015, 09:19:16 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12314046_10206511231234126_570465637540066863_n.jpg?oh=8f5eb617ebdcf75a8221858edc1168bb&oe=56E5C484)


Also, this interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh1t2MJDbrs

  I'd wonder what that father tells his daughter about why people at beaches or swimming pools are in those outfits.
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: PhoSita on December 11, 2015, 09:47:11 AM
Honestly, I was really surprised to see you as the author of this post given the Halloween/free speech/appropriation debate we had awhile back. Lol

You're surprised I posted something about a woman who speaks her mind, unvarnished, about a stupid fan-servicey costume she had to wear, and her experience in Hollywood in general?
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: BballTim on December 11, 2015, 10:27:08 AM
Honestly, I was really surprised to see you as the author of this post given the Halloween/free speech/appropriation debate we had awhile back. Lol

You're surprised I posted something about a woman who speaks her mind, unvarnished, about a stupid fan-servicey costume she had to wear, and her experience in Hollywood in general?

  To a good extent her experience in Hollywood in general was getting famous and earning a lot of money. She's not happy that the producer or director asked her to wear that outfit, but the fact that she'd look good in that outfit is one of the main reasons that she got that gig in the first place.
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: PhoSita on December 11, 2015, 11:21:08 AM
Honestly, I was really surprised to see you as the author of this post given the Halloween/free speech/appropriation debate we had awhile back. Lol

You're surprised I posted something about a woman who speaks her mind, unvarnished, about a stupid fan-servicey costume she had to wear, and her experience in Hollywood in general?

  To a good extent her experience in Hollywood in general was getting famous and earning a lot of money. She's not happy that the producer or director asked her to wear that outfit, but the fact that she'd look good in that outfit is one of the main reasons that she got that gig in the first place.

Sure ... but can you blame her for being bitter about that?  That was the part of those movies that has stayed with people?
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: BballTim on December 11, 2015, 11:30:48 AM
Honestly, I was really surprised to see you as the author of this post given the Halloween/free speech/appropriation debate we had awhile back. Lol

You're surprised I posted something about a woman who speaks her mind, unvarnished, about a stupid fan-servicey costume she had to wear, and her experience in Hollywood in general?

  To a good extent her experience in Hollywood in general was getting famous and earning a lot of money. She's not happy that the producer or director asked her to wear that outfit, but the fact that she'd look good in that outfit is one of the main reasons that she got that gig in the first place.

Sure ... but can you blame her for being bitter about that?  That was the part of those movies that has stayed with people?

  I'd wager that she's taken full advantage of the fame that came her way, and I'd guess she's happier with the way things turned out than she'd have been if she hadn't taken advantage of her looks to be even considered for that role.
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: Eja117 on December 11, 2015, 11:36:08 AM
Part of the reason I don't feel sorry for her having worn that is because she basically demanded that kind of outfit and then wore it everywhere on set and refused the tape stuff resulting in many wardrobe malfunctions and also wore it again for a rolling stone beach shoot.  She also wore it in a small advertisement
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: PhoSita on December 11, 2015, 11:59:41 AM

  I'd wager that she's taken full advantage of the fame that came her way, and I'd guess she's happier with the way things turned out than she'd have been if she hadn't taken advantage of her looks to be even considered for that role.

OK, fine, even if all of that is true ... can you blame her for being bitter that the space bikini is maybe the most enduring scene of that movie for a lot of people?

I don't understand why it's so important to you to push against that.  So women in Hollywood get ahead, or not, because of their looks.  The ones that benefit from that can't resent the fact that they're evaluated based on how attractive they are?
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: PhoSita on December 11, 2015, 12:00:44 PM
Part of the reason I don't feel sorry for her having worn that is because she basically demanded that kind of outfit and then wore it everywhere on set and refused the tape stuff resulting in many wardrobe malfunctions and also wore it again for a rolling stone beach shoot.  She also wore it in a small advertisement

I haven't heard about any of that ... is there an article you can link to or something?  I'd be interested to read about it.
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: Eja117 on December 11, 2015, 02:54:23 PM
I actually sorta thought that was common knowledge. I assumed all males worship the outfit like myself
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: slamtheking on December 11, 2015, 02:58:45 PM

  I'd wager that she's taken full advantage of the fame that came her way, and I'd guess she's happier with the way things turned out than she'd have been if she hadn't taken advantage of her looks to be even considered for that role.

OK, fine, even if all of that is true ... can you blame her for being bitter that the space bikini is maybe the most enduring scene of that movie for a lot of people?

I don't understand why it's so important to you to push against that.  So women in Hollywood get ahead, or not, because of their looks.  The ones that benefit from that can't resent the fact that they're evaluated based on how attractive they are?
yes, yes I can.  she created an icon moment on film.  most actors would kill for that. 
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: jpotter33 on December 11, 2015, 03:04:12 PM
What I've seen people talking about regarding this issue is pretty much the same issue that you had regarding wearing a Native American Halloween outfit. Since it was a "slave" outfit, they thought it was offensive to African-Americans and other potential peoples who have been enslaved in history. That's why I found it curious given your previous opinions on the matter.

Apparently this is talking about more of a sexism issue, though, so apparently we were talking about two different issues regarding the same situation. I'll need to watch the YouTube video.
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 11, 2015, 03:13:46 PM
This is our culture today, though—hypersexualized. And this is part of the fruit of that. Lots of people want to be rich and/or famous, and sure, some of them have talent, but for a lot of them it boils down to looks, and a lot of them are willing to do a whole lot of "physical stuff" for the fame and fortune. Some of them say they want to be remembered for being "more than a hot body," but often that was their primary route to notoriety.

So they succeed, in large part, because of looks, but then they talk about how that's sexist—and I agree, it is sexist, but they're helping feed the beast.
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: TheTruthFot18 on December 11, 2015, 04:12:30 PM

  I'd wager that she's taken full advantage of the fame that came her way, and I'd guess she's happier with the way things turned out than she'd have been if she hadn't taken advantage of her looks to be even considered for that role.

OK, fine, even if all of that is true ... can you blame her for being bitter that the space bikini is maybe the most enduring scene of that movie for a lot of people?

I don't understand why it's so important to you to push against that.  So women in Hollywood get ahead, or not, because of their looks.  The ones that benefit from that can't resent the fact that they're evaluated based on how attractive they are?

Maybe as a "millennial" or someone who grew up in the internet age and having seen all the movies, the outfit only stands out because it's talked about so much. When I watched the movie growing up I was more focused on the giant slug and frozen Han, but that's just me. 
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: BballTim on December 11, 2015, 04:21:38 PM

  I'd wager that she's taken full advantage of the fame that came her way, and I'd guess she's happier with the way things turned out than she'd have been if she hadn't taken advantage of her looks to be even considered for that role.

OK, fine, even if all of that is true ... can you blame her for being bitter that the space bikini is maybe the most enduring scene of that movie for a lot of people?

I don't understand why it's so important to you to push against that.  So women in Hollywood get ahead, or not, because of their looks.  The ones that benefit from that can't resent the fact that they're evaluated based on how attractive they are?

  This seems to be the complete opposite of your usual tack, where people are culpable for merely participating in an unfair system.
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: kozlodoev on December 11, 2015, 04:27:32 PM
This seems to be the complete opposite of your usual tack, where people are culpable for merely participating in an unfair system.
I thought I'd revisit the case of the multi-million heir on hunger strike down in Mizzou when Pho said that "privilege is not just based on race" over in the other thread, but figured it's a waste of time.
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: Eja117 on December 11, 2015, 04:37:34 PM
I admit I'm having a hard time with the logic here. Are we saying that it's totally understandable if the actors of Game of Thrones are annoyed that people like the shenanigans on the show?  Because I think that's trying to have it both ways. 
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: PhoSita on December 11, 2015, 04:46:01 PM

  This seems to be the complete opposite of your usual tack, where people are culpable for merely participating in an unfair system.

As usual you're trying to reduce something complicated to an either / or.

I ask again -- can't an actress participate in Hollywood, benefiting from her looks, and at the same resent the fact that doing so is necessary for her to enjoy success, when male actors don't have to do the same?

You seem to be suggesting the answer is no.  A person in Fisher's position has to make a choice -- participate and be silent about it ever after, or refuse and bear the consequences.  That doesn't seem fair to me.  Why not focus on the writers and directors who bear most of the power in that situation?


I thought I'd revisit the case of the multi-million heir on hunger strike down in Mizzou when Pho said that "privilege is not just based on race" over in the other thread, but figured it's a waste of time.

I mean, it'd be a complete red herring to this discussion, too, so there's that.

To the Mizzou thing, go look up the term "Intersectionality."
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: PhoSita on December 11, 2015, 04:49:55 PM
I admit I'm having a hard time with the logic here. Are we saying that it's totally understandable if the actors of Game of Thrones are annoyed that people like the shenanigans on the show?  Because I think that's trying to have it both ways.

I think it'd be understandable if a female actor on GoT, though happy to be a part of a really well done show, and glad to receive the accompanying career boost, also was bothered by the gratuitous sex scenes and nudity on the show that are an HBO hallmark.

Again, I'm not sure why this is such an out there concept.  Do none of you have jobs that involve aspects you're not entirely thrilled about, but you do your job anyway because it's a pay check?
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: BballTim on December 12, 2015, 09:51:33 PM

  This seems to be the complete opposite of your usual tack, where people are culpable for merely participating in an unfair system.

As usual you're trying to reduce something complicated to an either / or.

  That's a much more valuable skill than you imagine. It's worth pointing out the irony in your willingness to attack the character of people who have no choice but to participate in a system where they derive no special benefits but others (who happen to share their skin color) might, but someone who willingly participates in and derives great benefit from a system (also based on looks) is above scrutiny. Your arguments appear to be based more than anything else on whether they favor whichever group you sympathize with the most. That's the kind of complication that I manage to cut through.

I ask again -- can't an actress participate in Hollywood, benefiting from her looks, and at the same resent the fact that doing so is necessary for her to enjoy success, when male actors don't have to do the same?

  Most male actors don't benefit from their looks? I think that's highly unlikely.

You seem to be suggesting the answer is no.  A person in Fisher's position has to make a choice -- participate and be silent about it ever after, or refuse and bear the consequences.  That doesn't seem fair to me.  Why not focus on the writers and directors who bear most of the power in that situation?

  Sure, she can complain about being treated like a sex object, and others can point out that she chose to go into a field where much of her success was based on her being relatively attractive and she derived quite a bit of fame and fortune from it.
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: Eja117 on December 12, 2015, 10:15:22 PM
I admit I'm having a hard time with the logic here. Are we saying that it's totally understandable if the actors of Game of Thrones are annoyed that people like the shenanigans on the show?  Because I think that's trying to have it both ways.

I think it'd be understandable if a female actor on GoT, though happy to be a part of a really well done show, and glad to receive the accompanying career boost, also was bothered by the gratuitous sex scenes and nudity on the show that are an HBO hallmark.

Again, I'm not sure why this is such an out there concept.  Do none of you have jobs that involve aspects you're not entirely thrilled about, but you do your job anyway because it's a pay check?
Well if I do I don't lecture people about how terrible they are that they are creating the market that is employing me.

I mean if we take the analogy a little further than we can have actors that are really happy to be a part of a really well produced adult film, and don't mind the exposure, but really are frustrated by the fans that just see them as sex symbols and not much else. Boo freaking hoo.
Title: Re: Carrie Fisher is Awesome
Post by: Eja117 on December 12, 2015, 10:18:20 PM
I guarantee if they offered her a million bucks to get back in that outfit she'd do it. Instead they asked her to lose weight and now she's all indignant.