CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: CelticsElite on October 17, 2018, 01:38:28 AM
-
Watching Tatum destroy the 76ers while fultz didnt do much was unbearable for many 76er fans. Some posts I found from after today's game:
"I was staunchly against the trade at the time, but even I didn't think it would go this badly. Fultz looks way worse than I expected. 24 minutes and zero attempts from 3 after spending an entire summer working on his jumper. It won't be long until the fans start booing him. Meanwhile Tatum looks like a future All-Star and the Kings pick will probably be top 10. Sigh..."
"Yes, Fultz will be a bust. Mentality and confidence red flags have tanked any chance of him developing into the player some thought he would be."
"Fultz was such a disaster that Brett wouldn't even play him in the 2nd half. Was him being benched for the rest of the game part of the plan, too? He's a bust, cut bait. It's a waste of time and makes us worse trying to develop him."
"Fultz - I don't care that it's 1 game. I was alarmed by his passiveness in preseason and he looked like complete bust in this game. That trade is on par with Billy King"
"Yeah the Fultz for Tatum trade looks like the sort of move that would break an organisation (Billy King levels)."
"Ball is light years beyond Fultz as a shooter"
"Jason Tatum with a game high, The guy that WE could’ve drafted.
This is the ABSOLUTE worse scenario we could have imagined.
Atleast Fultz scored 3. Go get em tiger"
"There is a reasonable chance the Fultz trade ends up being the reason we don’t win a championship in the Embiid/Simmons era, and there’s also a reasonable chance Embiid leaves after his big contract because that disastrous trade prevented the team from reaching it’s potential peak.
Valid reasons for disappointment."
"We have tape of Fultz not knowing how to shoot. In fact, it’s the only NBA tape Fultz has.
We don’t have any tape of Tatum looking like anything less than a future superstar."
"Pretty much what I expected to see. Cant even be mad. What hurts is knowing we will have to watch Tatum up close and personal for the next 15 years, while Fultz will probably be long gone in 3 years. What a disaster of a trade." ;D
-
Gotta say, I’m loving this
-
Fultz when all is said and done would be the Bowie to Jordan...
Not saying Tatum will be MJ but just the impact... Tatum will have atleast an all star appearance in the horizon.. Fultz is looking like he will have a career projection like that of Livingston... But I don't think Fultz is in the league of Kwame Brown or Bennett who are probably the ultimate number one busts in history.
-
Dang, Danny Ainge going on HEISTS and throwing psychological warfare! First the inevitable PP34/KG to Brooklyn trade. Next the trade with Phoenix for Isaiah Thomas. Then the #1 pick for #3 and SAC '19. And then trading IT4 and package for Kyrie Irving.
-
Dang, Danny Ainge going on HEISTS and throwing psychological warfare! First the inevitable PP34/KG to Brooklyn trade. Next the trade with Phoenix for Isaiah Thomas. Then the #1 pick for #3 and SAC '19. And then trading IT4 and package for Kyrie Irving.
idk how danny does it
-
when you look at those players they could have had and not give away anything . Its about as bad as it gets in the short term. Maybe he ll become a top tier player , but maybe it takes several seasons , and the bad thing of all is this might not happen on Philly at all. Just look at the years and players they wasted drafting to finally land land Embiid and Simmons, two keepers. The team tanking built.
-
Ainge was never going to draft him and Philly lost a lottery pick out of the whole thing. Another Ainge swindle.
-
Fultz when all is said and done would be the Bowie to Jordan...
Not saying Tatum will be MJ but just the impact... Tatum will have atleast an all star appearance in the horizon.. Fultz is looking like he will have a career projection like that of Livingston... But I don't think Fultz is in the league of Kwame Brown or Bennett who are probably the ultimate number one busts in history.
Oh I think Fultz could definitely be on the level of bust of Kwame Brown or Anthony Bennett. One year later after a season of the yips, he still looks horrible.
Look who else Philly could have grabbed
Tatum
Ball
Mitchell
Markennan
Kuzma
Smith, Jr.
Jackson
Fox
There will be a lot of excellent players from that draft the Sixers could have taken but instead they took a guy who could be out of the league in 4 years.
-
One reasons why you shouldn't trust any hype from draft "experts".
-
I actually liked what I saw from him, he showed a nice pull up jumper and was pretty fluid. Granted he seems very raw but imo slowly feeding him minutes and forcing him to play the right way will fix that. He still has star potential.
-
I actually liked what I saw from him, he showed a nice pull up jumper and was pretty fluid. Granted he seems very raw but imo slowly feeding him minutes and forcing him to play the right way will fix that. He still has star potential.
I don't know how you can see his broken jumper and think it looks nice. He's basically pushing the ball at the ring. Hence the 2-7 shooting, including a number of missed 'nice pull up jumpers'
-
How long until they come to a conclusion that you can't start 2 non-shooters in today's game if you are trying to be a serious team?
GSW can pull it off, but Roco-Šarić-Embiid trio is not Curry-Klay-Durant.
After they bench Fultz his confidence will drop even more.
And truthfully McConnell (also close to a non-shooter) is a better backup PG than Fultz.
I'd trade him, rather than to go in the downward spiral, making another mistake to address a made mistake. Admit you were wrong, trade him, and move on with a clear and decent plan.
Either that or you have the same architectural issues and you have to answer the same questions before and after every game and practice.
"How is Markelle?"
"Do you like what you saw in his performance with the starters?"
"Is it possible that JJ will return in the starting 5?
"Markelle, how is your confidence level right now?"...
One mistake is OK, making several others continuously in the same variation after that is not a way to go.
At least Joel was being sober and admitted that this is not a rivalry. Refreshing.
-
How long until they come to a conclusion that you can't start 2 non-shooters in today's game if you are trying to be a serious team?
GSW can pull it off, but Roco-Šarić-Embiid trio is not Curry-Klay-Durant.
After they bench Fultz his confidence will drop even more.
And truthfully McConnell (also close to a non-shooter) is a better backup PG than Fultz.
I'd trade him, rather than to go in the downward spiral, making another mistake to address a made mistake. Admit you were wrong, trade him, and move on with a clear and decent plan.
Either that or you have the same architectural issues and you have to answer the same questions before and after every game and practice.
"How is Markelle?"
"Do you like what you saw in his performance with the starters?"
"Is it possible that JJ will return in the starting 5?
"Markelle, how is your confidence level right now?"...
One mistake is OK, making several others continuously in the same variation after that is not a way to go.
At least Joel was being sober and admitted that this is not a rivalry. Refreshing.
I feel like one of the things that would make it hard to trade him is that his value, I'm assuming, is at a very low level right now. He hasn't proven any real strong NBA caliber skill, besides ball-handling really.
What kind of return do you think Philly could get for him? I'm struggling to think of any that wouldn't truly embarrass them
-
How long until they come to a conclusion that you can't start 2 non-shooters in today's game if you are trying to be a serious team?
GSW can pull it off, but Roco-Šarić-Embiid trio is not Curry-Klay-Durant.
After they bench Fultz his confidence will drop even more.
And truthfully McConnell (also close to a non-shooter) is a better backup PG than Fultz.
I'd trade him, rather than to go in the downward spiral, making another mistake to address a made mistake. Admit you were wrong, trade him, and move on with a clear and decent plan.
Either that or you have the same architectural issues and you have to answer the same questions before and after every game and practice.
"How is Markelle?"
"Do you like what you saw in his performance with the starters?"
"Is it possible that JJ will return in the starting 5?
"Markelle, how is your confidence level right now?"...
One mistake is OK, making several others continuously in the same variation after that is not a way to go.
At least Joel was being sober and admitted that this is not a rivalry. Refreshing.
I feel like one of the things that would make it hard to trade him is that his value, I'm assuming, is at a very low level right now. He hasn't proven any real strong NBA caliber skill, besides ball-handling really.
What kind of return do you think Philly could get for him? I'm struggling to think of any that wouldn't truly embarrass them
The return they would get is:
- a possibility of a clear plan in the future.
- better spacing and offense in general, another shooter for Simmons and Embiid
- any asset they receive in return
- putting an end to boring and painful media questions for coach and other players
- dodging a possibility where agitated Ben or Joel might suggest a Fultz trade or similar through media
I would literally take 2 2nd rounders and Bender for him in a trade with Phoenix.
I wouldn't feel embarrassed, we are way past that point. It is time for damage control.
-
How long until they come to a conclusion that you can't start 2 non-shooters in today's game if you are trying to be a serious team?
GSW can pull it off, but Roco-Šarić-Embiid trio is not Curry-Klay-Durant.
After they bench Fultz his confidence will drop even more.
And truthfully McConnell (also close to a non-shooter) is a better backup PG than Fultz.
I'd trade him, rather than to go in the downward spiral, making another mistake to address a made mistake. Admit you were wrong, trade him, and move on with a clear and decent plan.
Either that or you have the same architectural issues and you have to answer the same questions before and after every game and practice.
"How is Markelle?"
"Do you like what you saw in his performance with the starters?"
"Is it possible that JJ will return in the starting 5?
"Markelle, how is your confidence level right now?"...
One mistake is OK, making several others continuously in the same variation after that is not a way to go.
At least Joel was being sober and admitted that this is not a rivalry. Refreshing.
I feel like one of the things that would make it hard to trade him is that his value, I'm assuming, is at a very low level right now. He hasn't proven any real strong NBA caliber skill, besides ball-handling really.
What kind of return do you think Philly could get for him? I'm struggling to think of any that wouldn't truly embarrass them
The return they would get is:
- a possibility of a clear plan in the future.
- better spacing and offense in general, another shooter for Simmons and Embiid
- any asset they receive in return
- putting an end to boring and painful media questions for coach and other players
- dodging a possibility where agitated Ben or Joel might suggest a Fultz trade or similar through media
I would literally take 2 2nd rounders and Bender for him in a trade with Phoenix.
I wouldn't feel embarrassed, we are way past that point. It is time for damage control.
I just don’t think Elton Brand is the guy that would, or could, do such a deal. I don’t think the owners would let him give up on their #1 pick a month or two into his tenure
-
One reasons why you shouldn't trust any hype from draft "experts".
That is not fair. Fultz is not a case like Yi or Bender when everyone overestimated their development Fultz has turned into a bust for reasons nobody could have foreseen.
-
How long until they come to a conclusion that you can't start 2 non-shooters in today's game if you are trying to be a serious team?
GSW can pull it off, but Roco-Šarić-Embiid trio is not Curry-Klay-Durant.
After they bench Fultz his confidence will drop even more.
And truthfully McConnell (also close to a non-shooter) is a better backup PG than Fultz.
I'd trade him, rather than to go in the downward spiral, making another mistake to address a made mistake. Admit you were wrong, trade him, and move on with a clear and decent plan.
Either that or you have the same architectural issues and you have to answer the same questions before and after every game and practice.
"How is Markelle?"
"Do you like what you saw in his performance with the starters?"
"Is it possible that JJ will return in the starting 5?
"Markelle, how is your confidence level right now?"...
One mistake is OK, making several others continuously in the same variation after that is not a way to go.
At least Joel was being sober and admitted that this is not a rivalry. Refreshing.
I feel like one of the things that would make it hard to trade him is that his value, I'm assuming, is at a very low level right now. He hasn't proven any real strong NBA caliber skill, besides ball-handling really.
What kind of return do you think Philly could get for him? I'm struggling to think of any that wouldn't truly embarrass them
The return they would get is:
- a possibility of a clear plan in the future.
- better spacing and offense in general, another shooter for Simmons and Embiid
- any asset they receive in return
- putting an end to boring and painful media questions for coach and other players
- dodging a possibility where agitated Ben or Joel might suggest a Fultz trade or similar through media
I would literally take 2 2nd rounders and Bender for him in a trade with Phoenix.
I wouldn't feel embarrassed, we are way past that point. It is time for damage control.
I just don’t think Elton Brand is the guy that would, or could, do such a deal. I don’t think the owners would let him give up on their #1 pick a month or two into his tenure
Brown, Brand, and ownership would all have to agree on that move.
But they have to look themselves in the mirror at one point. The sooner the better for their franchise. As a Celtic fan, as far as I'm concerned, they can promote Fultz to a player-coach role and give him Ben Simmons ball while they are at it. But if they want to give their young stars a shot against our stacked team at one point, they should move on.
-
One reasons why you shouldn't trust any hype from draft "experts".
That is not fair. Fultz is not a case like Yi or Bender when everyone overestimated their development Fultz has turned into a bust for reasons nobody could have foreseen.
Nobody except Danny and his brain doctor team.
-
Fultz when all is said and done would be the Bowie to Jordan...
Not saying Tatum will be MJ but just the impact... Tatum will have atleast an all star appearance in the horizon.. Fultz is looking like he will have a career projection like that of Livingston... But I don't think Fultz is in the league of Kwame Brown or Bennett who are probably the ultimate number one busts in history.
Oh I think Fultz could definitely be on the level of bust of Kwame Brown or Anthony Bennett. One year later after a season of the yips, he still looks horrible.
Look who else Philly could have grabbed
Tatum
Ball
Mitchell
Markennan
Kuzma
Smith, Jr.
Jackson
Fox
There will be a lot of excellent players from that draft the Sixers could have taken but instead they took a guy who could be out of the league in 4 years.
Funny how that draft could turn out to be the best draft crop in years, and the team with the #1 pick chose the worst lottery player.
So do sixers fans still "trust the process"?... Embiid and Simmons aren't benefiting from it.... Lost the Bron sweepstakes, lost the Kawhi sweepstakes...bellinelli and Ilyasova have moved on to greener pastures...well at least they got Wilson Chandler...lol
-
They would have had a better chance to win with their other guards which makes me think they are showcasing him in hopes someone wants to trade for him.
It was pretty clear that we are hands down the better team.
-
One reasons why you shouldn't trust any hype from draft "experts".
That is not fair. Fultz is not a case like Yi or Bender when everyone overestimated their development Fultz has turned into a bust for reasons nobody could have foreseen.
Nobody except Danny and his brain doctor team.
I don't know... I think it was just that DA liked Tatum more and not that he found something wrong in Fultz's brain. Besides the problem appeared after the draft. I don't remember any pre draft report saying that fultz messed up his shot.
Anyway for me Fultz has become one of nature's biggest mysteries and nobody realy knows what went wrong with the kid and one way or another we ended up with best player in the draft plus another top 10 pick.
-
One reasons why you shouldn't trust any hype from draft "experts".
That is not fair. Fultz is not a case like Yi or Bender when everyone overestimated their development Fultz has turned into a bust for reasons nobody could have foreseen.
Nobody except Danny and his brain doctor team.
I don't know... I think it was just that DA liked Tatum more and not that he found something wrong in Fultz's brain. Besides the problem appeared after the draft. I don't remember any pre draft report saying that fultz messed up his shot.
Anyway for me Fultz has become one of nature's biggest mysteries and nobody realy knows what went wrong with the kid and one way or another we ended up with best player in the draft plus another top 10 pick.
I think it was both. When it looked like Fultz was consensus #1 pick, I tried to like the guy, but I could see something in his eyes that told me the guy had no confidence in himself. The trade was a huge relief for me.
-
He might be a really great project , if he continues to falter and they wind up cutting bait and trading him. I still think his issue is mostly mental . He may need several teams or years , coaches , players to grow out of it and find a home. Philly has yo play while Embiid is still healthy , never know when he is going down . At that point they are sunk.
-
Where are our Sixer apologists Moranis and tazz when you need em? We need some fair and balanced coverage of this debacle :D
-
I think it was both. When it looked like Fultz was consensus #1 pick, I tried to like the guy, but I could see something in his eyes that told me the guy had no confidence in himself. The trade was a huge relief for me.
I wasn't in love with Fultz and preferred a trade down, but remember thinking we should take him at #1 if we were to keep the pick - as you are supposed to take the consensus #1 at the #1 spot.
Luckily Danny did what so many other GMs wouldn't have done and got his guy plus another likely lottery pick. Everybody lauds DA for his GM acumen, but he still has only won one Executive of the Year award. If this year plays out the way it should, Stevens and DA should be standing on a podium giving acceptance speeches in June.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
-
Danny should be the highest paid Celtic! including players.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Considering the trade that actually happened was miles better than those 'reasonable reports', I don't really give them much value.
And it isn't 1 game. It's a 365 day body of work where he has shown little to no capacity to be an NBA starter
-
I think the panic on Philly end is probably what we would have done here if Danny picked Fultz. I'm sure the team saw Fultz and thought we don't want any part of that. I'm glad we have Danny and Brad.
I still think Fultz will be a good player. He's very athletic. He can play D when he wants to and has decent court vision. The problem is with Simmons needing the ball in his hands even if Fultz was what we thought he'd be he's still not a good fit next to Simmons. They need shooters who can create own offense and move off the ball. Someone like that Jayson Tatum kid.
Philly has just blown their opportunity to be a top tier team. All of the wasted top picks from the Noel's, Okufur, Fultz etc. They just drafted so poorly that they could be an even bigger monster if they would have made better choices. Unreal.
-
I would say that Fultz still has a chance to be a good player, this is only game 1 of the season. He really didn't look any different than last season but he can still develop this year. I think by the end of this year we'll have a much bigger picture.
He will def need to improve in the coming months though to justify putting him into the starting lineup.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about? The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground
-
I feel for Fultz. He’s dealing with a mental issue in a high stress environment, compounded by Philly fans and trying to live up to expectations set by Tatum’s excellence.
-
I actually liked what I saw from him, he showed a nice pull up jumper and was pretty fluid. Granted he seems very raw but imo slowly feeding him minutes and forcing him to play the right way will fix that. He still has star potential.
Agreed. His ceiling is undefined. His floor is maybe Brandon Roy.
Philly should still trade him once he shows fire though. He will never be an elite shooter. They need Klay or maybe even someone like Ingles or Middleton
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about? The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground
Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Considering the trade that actually happened was miles better than those 'reasonable reports', I don't really give them much value.
And it isn't 1 game. It's a 365 day body of work where he has shown little to no capacity to be an NBA starter
Yeah, it doesn't pass the smell test at all.
Sixers don't want to land Kawhi for Covington (let's be honest, he's not very good), and get rid of their Fultz problem without losing face? Give me a break. I know for sure that that deal was not agreed on by the Spurs otherwise Fultz would be laying bricks for San Antonio right now instead.
I think the panic on Philly end is probably what we would have done here if Danny picked Fultz. I'm sure the team saw Fultz and thought we don't want any part of that. I'm glad we have Danny and Brad.
Danny inviting Fultz to Boston for a workout was an act to drive up the price. Danny is only interested in winners with an alpha attitude: Smart, Rozier, Brown, Tatum.
-
I actually liked what I saw from him, he showed a nice pull up jumper and was pretty fluid. Granted he seems very raw but imo slowly feeding him minutes and forcing him to play the right way will fix that. He still has star potential.
Agreed. His ceiling is undefined. His floor is maybe Brandon Roy.
Philly should still trade him once he shows fire though. He will never be an elite shooter. They need Klay or maybe even someone like Ingles or Middleton
I think his floor is far lower than Brandon Roy, who was a three-time all-star and the best player on a playoff team. Roy’s issue was longevity, not his game.
-
I actually liked what I saw from him, he showed a nice pull up jumper and was pretty fluid. Granted he seems very raw but imo slowly feeding him minutes and forcing him to play the right way will fix that. He still has star potential.
Agreed. His ceiling is undefined. His floor is maybe Brandon Roy.
Philly should still trade him once he shows fire though. He will never be an elite shooter. They need Klay or maybe even someone like Ingles or Middleton
I think his floor is far lower than Brandon Roy, who was a three-time all-star and the best player on a playoff team. Roy’s issue was longevity, not his game.
Ya a Brandon Roy floor is pretty great, basically that's what Jayson Tatum's floor looks like now (in broad success terms, as they're different players).
For a floor, I think Fultz's floor is currently more like Dajuan Wagner.
The way everyone's reacting 15 games into Fult's career, I think many Philly fans would be happy if Fultz turns into an OJ Mayo level player.
-
his floor is bust, a non-NBA player in a few years
-
His floor is Anthony Bennett
-
First of all, I love the quotes from the Philly fans…hilarious. TP
However, I feel like we would have been saying something similar if most of the people on this blog got their way, and kept the #1 pick to select Fultz. I remember joining the blog because I could not understand why so many people thought Fultz was the consensus #1 pick. Something seemed off from a leadership point and I didn’t like his separation on his jumper, among other things. Nothing about him seemed special to warrant being the consensus #1 pick.
Philly needs to trade Fultz at this point. One of the biggest issues is they have so much invested in two guys that can’t shoot and need the ball in their hands to be effective. Unfortunately for Philly, they thought they were drafting the next great shooting PG, but instead drafted a guy that makes Rondo look like the next Stephen Curry. I still think the problem is finding a trade partner who is willing to trade a useful asset(s) for such a high risk player.
If I’m Philly, I call Phoenix and inquire about TJ Warren or Josh Jackson. Maybe Phoenix can just ask Fultz to be the next Rajon Rondo, and concentrate more on running the team offense and not being one of the central scoring options. Rondo has carved out a fairly significant career with that approach. I like the high risk/high reward aspect for the Suns, since they desperately need a PG, and Fultz fits in with the time frame of Booker, Ayton, Jackson, and Bridges. With Philly ready to win now, a player like Warren helps out significantly more than Fultz, who may never work out as long as Ben Simmons remains in Philly.
Or maybe inquire about Jimmy Butler for Fultz and Wilson Chandler.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about? The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground
Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
From what I gather from guys at PTR, Pop didnt want to fully rebuild. And coming from a small market team with long tradition of winning, I get that. For a lot of these teams, selling tickets is a much more practical goal than trying to win a championship. This is why some teams choose to be stuck in mediocrity than try to bottom out.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about? The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground
Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1. Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect. 2. Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves. 3. Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).
And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan. He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old. San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there. They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made. That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.
Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer. There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.
-
Who said that Pop is looking into rebuilding? They are trying to compete now. They have a competitive team with DeRozan (Gasol, Aldridge, Gay, DeRozan, Mills -- that's a playoff team in the West). Fultz, Saric and Covington probably wouldn't even be starters. That's how bad Philly is. Their team is literally Embiid. Simmons is too easy to stop and is a stats padder.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about? The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground
Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1. Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect. 2. Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves. 3. Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).
And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan. He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old. San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there. They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made. That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.
Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer. There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.
Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?
And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about? The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground
Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1. Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect. 2. Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves. 3. Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).
And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan. He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old. San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there. They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made. That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.
Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer. There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.
Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?
And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
If Saric was 5 years in then yeah, but 2 years in, with a good amount of growth between the 1st and 2nd year (I get the per 36 are similar, but Saric was a much better player in his 2nd year then he was in his 1st year as evidenced by WS, BPM, VORP, etc.), you would expect that growth to continue. I've said that I think he could be a 18/9/5 type player in the right system. I expect him to be a lot better again this year, though as a 3rd option (at best) I don't think he gets those numbers.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about? The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground
Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1. Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect. 2. Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves. 3. Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).
And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan. He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old. San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there. They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made. That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.
Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer. There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.
Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?
And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
If Saric was 5 years in then yeah, but 2 years in, with a good amount of growth between the 1st and 2nd year (I get the per 36 are similar, but Saric was a much better player in his 2nd year then he was in his 1st year as evidenced by WS, BPM, VORP, etc.), you would expect that growth to continue. I've said that I think he could be a 18/9/5 type player in the right system. I expect him to be a lot better again this year, though as a 3rd option (at best) I don't think he gets those numbers.
I'm a fan of Saric, but he is what he is at this point. He played professionally long enough before coming to the NBA, there's not much room left for more development at his age and years of pro experience.
-
They need to remember that they couldn't have had Tatum. Danny had the #1 pick, and agreed to do the trade because he didn't want Fultz. If Philly had said they were going to draft Tatum, Danny would have just taken him with the #1. They could have had Ball (and his dad) instead, or one of the other top 10 choices. It may take a couple of years to see how this plays out, but it sure looks like Philly messed up. The chance of Fultz being as good as both one of the other top 10 picks in this draft, plus a top 10 pick from the 2019 draft (Kings pick) is pretty darn low.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about? The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground
Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1. Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect. 2. Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves. 3. Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).
And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan. He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old. San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there. They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made. That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.
Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer. There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.
Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?
And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
If Saric was 5 years in then yeah, but 2 years in, with a good amount of growth between the 1st and 2nd year (I get the per 36 are similar, but Saric was a much better player in his 2nd year then he was in his 1st year as evidenced by WS, BPM, VORP, etc.), you would expect that growth to continue. I've said that I think he could be a 18/9/5 type player in the right system. I expect him to be a lot better again this year, though as a 3rd option (at best) I don't think he gets those numbers.
I'm a fan of Saric, but he is what he is at this point. He played professionally long enough before coming to the NBA, there's not much room left for more development at his age and years of pro experience.
Isn't Mirotic a pretty good comp here? He is been pretty much the exact same advanced stats since he came over at 23 with some shooting improvement. I'm just not thinking of a lot of european guys that blossomed when they were 25 or 26.
-
They need to remember that they couldn't have had Tatum. Danny had the #1 pick, and agreed to do the trade because he didn't want Fultz. If Philly had said they were going to draft Tatum, Danny would have just taken him with the #1. They could have had Ball (and his dad) instead, or one of the other top 10 choices. It may take a couple of years to see how this plays out, but it sure looks like Philly messed up. The chance of Fultz being as good as both one of the other top 10 picks in this draft, plus a top 10 pick from the 2019 draft (Kings pick) is pretty darn low.
Do we think the trade is made with a promise of who they would take? If they said we are still deciding, would ainge refuse the deal?
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about? The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground
Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1. Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect. 2. Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves. 3. Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).
And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan. He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old. San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there. They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made. That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.
Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer. There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.
Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?
And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
If Saric was 5 years in then yeah, but 2 years in, with a good amount of growth between the 1st and 2nd year (I get the per 36 are similar, but Saric was a much better player in his 2nd year then he was in his 1st year as evidenced by WS, BPM, VORP, etc.), you would expect that growth to continue. I've said that I think he could be a 18/9/5 type player in the right system. I expect him to be a lot better again this year, though as a 3rd option (at best) I don't think he gets those numbers.
I'm a fan of Saric, but he is what he is at this point. He played professionally long enough before coming to the NBA, there's not much room left for more development at his age and years of pro experience.
Isn't Mirotic a pretty good comp here? He is been pretty much the exact same advanced stats since he came over at 23 with some shooting improvement. I'm just not thinking of a lot of european guys that blossomed when they were 25 or 26.
Mirotic took a fairly big jump up in production this past season (and it wasn't all in Chicago) when he was 27 (he also started a year older than Saric did).
I think Saric has some growth left in him. He isn't going to become a monster or anything, but I certainly don't think he is a finished product at this point.
-
They need to remember that they couldn't have had Tatum. Danny had the #1 pick, and agreed to do the trade because he didn't want Fultz. If Philly had said they were going to draft Tatum, Danny would have just taken him with the #1. They could have had Ball (and his dad) instead, or one of the other top 10 choices. It may take a couple of years to see how this plays out, but it sure looks like Philly messed up. The chance of Fultz being as good as both one of the other top 10 picks in this draft, plus a top 10 pick from the 2019 draft (Kings pick) is pretty darn low.
Do we think the trade is made with a promise of who they would take? If they said we are still deciding, would ainge refuse the deal?
I don't think Ainge had any promise from Philly who they were going to draft with the #1 pick. But I'm sure he strongly enough suspected it would be Fultz. I also think Ainge would have been comfortable drafting Josh Jackson at #3 if Philly had pulled a fast one on him and drafted Tatum #1, with LAL drafting Ball #2. Ainge clearly wanted no part of Fultz.
-
They need to remember that they couldn't have had Tatum. Danny had the #1 pick, and agreed to do the trade because he didn't want Fultz. If Philly had said they were going to draft Tatum, Danny would have just taken him with the #1. They could have had Ball (and his dad) instead, or one of the other top 10 choices. It may take a couple of years to see how this plays out, but it sure looks like Philly messed up. The chance of Fultz being as good as both one of the other top 10 picks in this draft, plus a top 10 pick from the 2019 draft (Kings pick) is pretty darn low.
Do we think the trade is made with a promise of who they would take? If they said we are still deciding, would ainge refuse the deal?
No way to know for sure, but it seems that way. If I was making that deal, I would ask them who they were planning to take. Sure, they could lie about it, but if they did, word would get out that they had a gentlemen's agreement and one team reneged on it, and no one would want to deal with that team/GM again.
In some cases, the trade is actually made as soon as the picks are made, though I don't think that happened this time - since we had the #1 pick, there was no risk of another team screwing up the deal, as LA had made it obvious they were drafting Ball in the #2 spot. In those cases, the GMs get together and say 'I want Fultz' and 'I want Tatum', and once the picks are made, the trades happen. I think Danny did this when we got Kelly O, though I can't remember offhand who we drafted.
-
We dump on Phili for taking Fultz, as we should, but we forget that the Lakers also passed on Tatum for Ball. That's almost as bad, except they didn't trade a future lottery pick to do it.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about? The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground
Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1. Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect. 2. Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves. 3. Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).
And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan. He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old. San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there. They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made. That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.
Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer. There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.
Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?
And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
If Saric was 5 years in then yeah, but 2 years in, with a good amount of growth between the 1st and 2nd year (I get the per 36 are similar, but Saric was a much better player in his 2nd year then he was in his 1st year as evidenced by WS, BPM, VORP, etc.), you would expect that growth to continue. I've said that I think he could be a 18/9/5 type player in the right system. I expect him to be a lot better again this year, though as a 3rd option (at best) I don't think he gets those numbers.
I'm a fan of Saric, but he is what he is at this point. He played professionally long enough before coming to the NBA, there's not much room left for more development at his age and years of pro experience.
Isn't Mirotic a pretty good comp here? He is been pretty much the exact same advanced stats since he came over at 23 with some shooting improvement. I'm just not thinking of a lot of european guys that blossomed when they were 25 or 26.
Mirotic took a fairly big jump up in production this past season (and it wasn't all in Chicago) when he was 27 (he also started a year older than Saric did).
I think Saric has some growth left in him. He isn't going to become a monster or anything, but I certainly don't think he is a finished product at this point.
What jump are you referencing? You were arguing that Saric made a jump last season because of his WS, BPM, VORP. Mirotics Vorp was the same total last year as it was the year before (unless i am looking at this wrong). His WS was basically the same (3.8 to 4.0). His BPM was actually significantly worse last year than his first two seasons in the league (1.2 compared to .6). His per 100 posessions all look pretty similar to me. Am I missing something with this jump?
-
We dump on Phili for taking Fultz, as we should, but we forget that the Lakers also passed on Tatum for Ball. That's almost as bad, except they didn't trade a future lottery pick to do it.
I think in some ways Fultz and the philly organization is making this worse. Fultz should clearly not be starting right now, it feels like a move made for non basketball reasons. Fultz's agent came out and said he would be an all-star. While somewhat shockingly, Ball's dad has actually been mostly quiet over the offseason.
-
I don't like threads like this.
Enough GM's read this and soon no one will want to do a deal with us, in fear of getting Ainge'd.
But seriously I believe Fultz will turn out to be a stud - "AFTER" BOS finishes its championship run in a few years.
-
I don't like threads like this.
Enough GM's read this and soon no one will want to do a deal with us, in fear of getting Ainge'd.
But seriously I believe Fultz will turn out to be a stud - "AFTER" BOS finishes its championship run in a few years.
I don't think he will ever be a stud in this league. If everything works out for him, he may become a capable starter at best.
-
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz. the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise. last night didn't help that cause. if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi. They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.
1 game doesn't say much. I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.
Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.
We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)
That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about? The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground
Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1. Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect. 2. Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves. 3. Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).
And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan. He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old. San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there. They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made. That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.
Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer. There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.
Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?
And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
If Saric was 5 years in then yeah, but 2 years in, with a good amount of growth between the 1st and 2nd year (I get the per 36 are similar, but Saric was a much better player in his 2nd year then he was in his 1st year as evidenced by WS, BPM, VORP, etc.), you would expect that growth to continue. I've said that I think he could be a 18/9/5 type player in the right system. I expect him to be a lot better again this year, though as a 3rd option (at best) I don't think he gets those numbers.
I'm a fan of Saric, but he is what he is at this point. He played professionally long enough before coming to the NBA, there's not much room left for more development at his age and years of pro experience.
Isn't Mirotic a pretty good comp here? He is been pretty much the exact same advanced stats since he came over at 23 with some shooting improvement. I'm just not thinking of a lot of european guys that blossomed when they were 25 or 26.
Mirotic took a fairly big jump up in production this past season (and it wasn't all in Chicago) when he was 27 (he also started a year older than Saric did).
I think Saric has some growth left in him. He isn't going to become a monster or anything, but I certainly don't think he is a finished product at this point.
What jump are you referencing? You were arguing that Saric made a jump last season because of his WS, BPM, VORP. Mirotics Vorp was the same total last year as it was the year before (unless i am looking at this wrong). His WS was basically the same (3.8 to 4.0). His BPM was actually significantly worse last year than his first two seasons in the league (1.2 compared to .6). His per 100 posessions all look pretty similar to me. Am I missing something with this jump?
his actual numbers were significantly better last year, over 5 points per 100 possession, nearly 2 rebounds per 100 possessions better. Those are a pretty decent jump. His TS% jumped 3%, again a pretty decent jump (so he shot more and shot better, that is improvement). His RB% 1.3% higher than any other season in his career. His PER nearly a full point higher then his previous career best. TOV% nearly 3% lower than his previous low. His DBPM, in Chicago, was downright awful last year (in NO it was inline with his career), but he had by far the best OBPM of his career last year.
Of course Saric is better than Mirotic (better rebounder, better passer, more efficient shooter, etc.).
-
It was 1 game and we have a good defense with another chance to be really good. Let the guy have a little time, @Philly fans especially!
-
This is pretty good visual of the difference
https://twitter.com/KyleNeubeck/status/1052424480151298054
-
No question in my mind, the best comparison for Fultz in terms of what he will probably become is Evan Turner.
Turner was drafted #2 overall (by the 76ers in fact) but never lived up to his billing. Still, give him credit. He worked on his game, carved out a nice niche for himself, became productive, and made himself some money.
I think it's unlikely he becomes a star, because it's really hard to get to that level as a guard without an above-average jumpshot. But he can be a productive player in this league a la Turner.
-
I wrote in another thread asking where the Sixers would be if they had drafted Tatum instead of Fulz? At the time, they felt they needed a PG. And yet they had their PG in Simmons! They messed that one up badly.
Nobody really seems to know what happened to Fulz. Something about his shoulder? But he doesn't look like the same player he was in college.
The Sixers really screwed up not drafting Tatum no.1. Turns out that's just what they need right now.
As for the Kings pick, they'll probably be a mid range lottery team. They do have some talent. Guys like Bagley, Fox and Stein. All drafted high.The chances of landing the top pick look remote, but they have a decent chance of being in the top five.
-
No question in my mind, the best comparison for Fultz in terms of what he will probably become is Evan Turner.
Turner was drafted #2 overall (by the 76ers in fact) but never lived up to his billing. Still, give him credit. He worked on his game, carved out a nice niche for himself, became productive, and made himself some money.
I think it's unlikely he becomes a star, because it's really hard to get to that level as a guard without an above-average jumpshot. But he can be a productive player in this league a la Turner.
Turner is a good comp. He may be able to surpass Turner in passing...
Lance Stephenson with less toughness?
Smaller Gilchrist if he improves his defense over time?
Bigger Rozier if he learns to shoot?
a poor man's DeRozan as a ceiling?
-
No question in my mind, the best comparison for Fultz in terms of what he will probably become is Evan Turner.
Turner was drafted #2 overall (by the 76ers in fact) but never lived up to his billing. Still, give him credit. He worked on his game, carved out a nice niche for himself, became productive, and made himself some money.
I think it's unlikely he becomes a star, because it's really hard to get to that level as a guard without an above-average jumpshot. But he can be a productive player in this league a la Turner.
Turner is a good comp. He may be able to surpass Turner in passing...
Lance Stephenson with less toughness?
Smaller Gilchrist if he improves his defense over time?
Bigger Rozier if he learns to shoot?
a poor man's DeRozan as a ceiling?
I think Tyreke Evans is the comp. A good athlete and productive player that has never been part of a winning team.
-
Not sure how it ends for this kid (I like Evan Turner as a comp) but he just didn't look special last night. And frankly, if Evan Turner is his ceiling, he needs the ball in his hands to make things happen on the court, and with Ben Simmons on the floor, thats just not going to happen.
So until he learns how to shoot off the catch, he's essentially useless in Philly.
Its also not a coincidence that Philly was a .500 team last season until they added Ilyasova and Belinelli. Having Fultz and Simmons on the floor together kills their spacing. The only way they can truly develop Fultz is to take Simmons off the floor and that will kill their chance to win games.
It ain't looking to good out there for Philly right now.
-
I really think the best thing for Fultz would be to get traded out of Philly to a crappy team where he has less pressure, the ball in his hands, and a total green light to shoot and create. You can tell he’s super unsure of his role so far in Philly. I think having to play on the same team as Simmons is pretty bad luck for him. I think this thread is a slight bit premature though. Maybe he will become more comfortable over the next few weeks. He still has a ton of physical talent.
-
I actually liked what I saw from him, he showed a nice pull up jumper and was pretty fluid. Granted he seems very raw but imo slowly feeding him minutes and forcing him to play the right way will fix that. He still has star potential.
I don't know how you can see his broken jumper and think it looks nice. He's basically pushing the ball at the ring. Hence the 2-7 shooting, including a number of missed 'nice pull up jumpers'
Which is good progress when you compare it to the absolute shambles of a "jumpshot" he had last season. It'll take a few years but if he continues to work on it he could be a good player, most fans forget how young players are when they're drafted lol.
-
I actually liked what I saw from him, he showed a nice pull up jumper and was pretty fluid. Granted he seems very raw but imo slowly feeding him minutes and forcing him to play the right way will fix that. He still has star potential.
I don't know how you can see his broken jumper and think it looks nice. He's basically pushing the ball at the ring. Hence the 2-7 shooting, including a number of missed 'nice pull up jumpers'
Which is good progress when you compare it to the absolute shambles of a "jumpshot" he had last season. It'll take a few years but if he continues to work on it he could be a good player, most fana forget how young players are when they're drafted lol.
That's true, but both are worse than the jumpshot and FT form he had in college. That is due chiefly to his mental state. Much harder to fix than simply bad form.
-
I actually liked what I saw from him, he showed a nice pull up jumper and was pretty fluid. Granted he seems very raw but imo slowly feeding him minutes and forcing him to play the right way will fix that. He still has star potential.
I don't know how you can see his broken jumper and think it looks nice. He's basically pushing the ball at the ring. Hence the 2-7 shooting, including a number of missed 'nice pull up jumpers'
Which is good progress when you compare it to the absolute shambles of a "jumpshot" he had last season. It'll take a few years but if he continues to work on it he could be a good player, most fana forget how young players are when they're drafted lol.
That's true, but both are worse than the jumpshot and FT form he had in college. That is due chiefly to his mental state. Much harder to fix than simply bad form.
That's true, but he's been showing quite some positive progress from the setback, and as you said fixing a person's mental state is much harder than fixing his shooting form. I get that regressing compared to college is a hard pill to swallow but it has happened, and what's important is how Fultz gets out of this rut and so far he's been showing some promise of doing so.
-
I actually liked what I saw from him, he showed a nice pull up jumper and was pretty fluid. Granted he seems very raw but imo slowly feeding him minutes and forcing him to play the right way will fix that. He still has star potential.
I don't know how you can see his broken jumper and think it looks nice. He's basically pushing the ball at the ring. Hence the 2-7 shooting, including a number of missed 'nice pull up jumpers'
Which is good progress when you compare it to the absolute shambles of a "jumpshot" he had last season. It'll take a few years but if he continues to work on it he could be a good player, most fana forget how young players are when they're drafted lol.
That's true, but both are worse than the jumpshot and FT form he had in college. That is due chiefly to his mental state. Much harder to fix than simply bad form.
That's true, but he's been showing quite some positive progress from the setback, and as you said fixing a person's mental state is much harder than fixing his shooting form. I get that regressing compared to college is a hard pill to swallow but it has happened, and what's important is how Fultz gets out of this rut and so far he's been showing some promise of doing so.
He is just a weight on franchises back,
Is having mental issues that are hard to solve,
His problems lead to consistent tough media questions for teammates and coaches,
He cant space for teammates,
If he has the ball (his best skill ATM) he deprives Simmons of it which is bad,
It is just a matter of time before he gets demoted to the bench and after that his confidence level and trade value will drop further.
Philly has 50+ wins expectations, they are not Pinata anymore. Bigger expectations lead to higher pressure and IMO that is not a perfect environment for someone with mental issues.
Positive changes are what the media said, not what I saw.
Currently, it is wishful thinking, not reality. He can't shoot beyond FT line.
He earns $9,745,200 next year, I'd rather have that money in free cap space and try to sign a wing that spaces the floor. (Klay, Kawhi, Middleton...)
They went through a similar process with Jahlil and stalled it until he had no market value. No need to repeat the same mistakes consecutively.
Otherwise, it will just get worse with time, until one day they finally do it.
It would be best for Philly to admit this missed opportunity, trade him (lose the baggage) and move on toward building around their 2 young stars. That sounds like a viable plan to me. The current situation sounds like: "We can't admit to ourselves that we made a mistake, we will rather wait for a miracle to happen."
F(o)ultz.
-
It would be best for Philly to admit this missed opportunity, trade him (lose the baggage) and move on toward building around their 2 young stars
Who would want him? Teams are not going to be beating down the doors to get Fultz.
Having Fultz and Simmons on the floor together kills their spacing. The only way they can truly develop Fultz is to take Simmons off the floor and that will kill their chance to win games.
Simmons kills spacing without the Fultz too because he can't shoot.
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
-
It would be best for Philly to admit this missed opportunity, trade him (lose the baggage) and move on toward building around their 2 young stars
Who would want him? Teams are not going to be beating down the doors to get Fultz.
2x 2nd rounders + cap relief is enough value for me. As currently, he isn't a valuable rotation NBA player.
There are Orlando's and Phoenix's in the NBA. They need help or at least some hope of future at PG position.
-
2x 2nd rounders + cap relief is enough value for me. As currently, he isn't a valuable rotation NBA player.
We agree on that at least.
There are Orlando's and Phoenix's in the NBA. They need help or at least some hope of future at PG position.
Then why turn to a guy with lack thereof and issues? He is perfect guy for a swing at the fences gamble, high risk, high reward. But I would perceive help as somone that can immediately step in and help, which I doubt he can at a high level. Perhaps as you say, on a bad team, where he was sole focus, he could bomb away and prop himself up like he did in college.
-
2x 2nd rounders + cap relief is enough value for me. As currently, he isn't a valuable rotation NBA player.
We agree on that at least.
There are Orlando's and Phoenix's in the NBA. They need help or at least some hope of future at PG position.
Then why turn to a guy with lack thereof and issues? He is a perfect guy for a swing at the fences gamble, high risk, high reward. But I would perceive help as someone that can immediately step in and help, which I doubt he can at a high level. Perhaps as you say, on a bad team, where he was the sole focus, he could bomb away and prop himself up as he did in college.
It is a cheap investment. Less pressure. No one expects him to be an Allstar anymore.
-
...
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
Me too. Dr J, Barkley, Malone etc. were worthy opponents.
Embiid is worse than a cry-baby. He is also full of empty boasting as he tries to intimidate his opponents. Both Jayson and Jaylen did the stare-down after they scored on him in dramatic fashion.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqIZ5SlW4AEnbMw.jpg)
https://twitter.com/zachlowe_nba/status/1054433741450338304?s=21
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqIZ5SlW4AEnbMw.jpg)
https://twitter.com/zachlowe_nba/status/1054433741450338304?s=21
I just saw this. Man it's almost as if having a guard who can shoot from distance and doesn't panic on drives the second the defense shows any resistance is pretty important in today's NBA.
In fairness to Fultz some of this isn't just him but the cumulative effect of him and Simmons - having two perimeter guys with no outside shot on at once. But that's also kind of his job as a, y'know, shooting guard.
Still time for Fultz to get his stuff together but so far he's not at all compatible with the level they want their team playing at.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqIZ5SlW4AEnbMw.jpg)
https://twitter.com/zachlowe_nba/status/1054433741450338304?s=21
ouch
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqIZ5SlW4AEnbMw.jpg)
https://twitter.com/zachlowe_nba/status/1054433741450338304?s=21
Fultz is also better when he doesn't play with both Embiid and Simmons. He just doesn't mesh that well with both them and would be much better served leading the 2nd unit. The problem is the Sixers are really trying to control Redick's minutes and don't want him starting the game to help curb his minutes (and they have no one else that makes any sort of sense to start other than Fultz).
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqIZ5SlW4AEnbMw.jpg)
https://twitter.com/zachlowe_nba/status/1054433741450338304?s=21
Fultz is also better when he doesn't play with both Embiid and Simmons. He just doesn't mesh that well with both them and would be much better served leading the 2nd unit. The problem is the Sixers are really trying to control Redick's minutes and don't want him starting the game to help curb his minutes (and they have no one else that makes any sort of sense to start other than Fultz).
Does it feel like Brown has an order from owners to start fultz? He just isn't ready or helping them win games right now in that role, but they want to have justification for his lofty draft spot and the trade. If it is true they are trying to manage Reddick's minutes, they should start Chandler when he comes back.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqIZ5SlW4AEnbMw.jpg)
https://twitter.com/zachlowe_nba/status/1054433741450338304?s=21
Fultz is also better when he doesn't play with both Embiid and Simmons. He just doesn't mesh that well with both them and would be much better served leading the 2nd unit. The problem is the Sixers are really trying to control Redick's minutes and don't want him starting the game to help curb his minutes (and they have no one else that makes any sort of sense to start other than Fultz).
Does it feel like Brown has an order from owners to start fultz? He just isn't ready or helping them win games right now in that role, but they want to have justification for his lofty draft spot and the trade. If it is true they are trying to manage Reddick's minutes, they should start Chandler when he comes back.
That is possible but it could be that they just try to get restore his confidence . Benching him now imho would be the final nail
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqIZ5SlW4AEnbMw.jpg)
https://twitter.com/zachlowe_nba/status/1054433741450338304?s=21
Fultz is also better when he doesn't play with both Embiid and Simmons. He just doesn't mesh that well with both them and would be much better served leading the 2nd unit. The problem is the Sixers are really trying to control Redick's minutes and don't want him starting the game to help curb his minutes (and they have no one else that makes any sort of sense to start other than Fultz).
Does it feel like Brown has an order from owners to start fultz? He just isn't ready or helping them win games right now in that role, but they want to have justification for his lofty draft spot and the trade. If it is true they are trying to manage Reddick's minutes, they should start Chandler when he comes back.
That is possible but it could be that they just try to get restore his confidence . Benching him now imho would be the final nail
agree, it was my opinion that she should have started the season coming off the bench.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqIZ5SlW4AEnbMw.jpg)
https://twitter.com/zachlowe_nba/status/1054433741450338304?s=21
Fultz is also better when he doesn't play with both Embiid and Simmons. He just doesn't mesh that well with both them and would be much better served leading the 2nd unit. The problem is the Sixers are really trying to control Redick's minutes and don't want him starting the game to help curb his minutes (and they have no one else that makes any sort of sense to start other than Fultz).
Does it feel like Brown has an order from owners to start fultz? He just isn't ready or helping them win games right now in that role, but they want to have justification for his lofty draft spot and the trade. If it is true they are trying to manage Reddick's minutes, they should start Chandler when he comes back.
Yeah they are managing Redick's minutes. He generally starts the 2nd half, but they are really trying to control his overall minutes. He is down about 1.5 mpg from last year. I think they'd like the minutes to be lower, but they can't really play Fultz more. Once Chandler is back, I think you see Redick's minutes go down a bit more and you may be right that they might just start Chandler. Redick isn't injured, he is just getting older and they know they absolutely need his shooting, so they want to keep him as fresh as possible.
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
Don’t forget about the colossal whiff that was ET in 2010, ahead of DeMarcus Cousins, Hayward & PG13
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
And the player they traded down forin the 1st round in this year's draft, Zhaire Smith, in true Sixer tradition, is hurt and won't be around until Christmas.
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
And the player they traded down forin the 1st round in this year's draft, Zhaire Smith, in true Sixer tradition, is hurt and won't be around until Christmas.
All this is true. I think most experta would say if you get all nba level guys out of that streaky u still did well. I think we here have a tendency to compare our rebuild to others, bottom line is not everybody can out source their tanking.
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
Don’t forget about the colossal whiff that was ET in 2010, ahead of DeMarcus Cousins, Hayward & PG13
Although he’s not a great player, Turner is pretty good. I think that the present day Sixers would be better if he was still around.
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
Noel is also arguably a bust, at minimum an underachievement, though he didn't start that way. But you're missing the Saric pick at #12 too, which they essentially made.
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
Noel is also arguably a bust, at minimum an underachievement, though he didn't start that way. But you're missing the Saric pick at #12 too, which they essentially made.
i wasnt trying to do a complete list. Botching a #12 pick isnt much to write home about, but having 4 consecutive years of top 3 picks, with two of them being #1 picks and you only have a 50% win rate. thats pretty alarming. especially considering they gave away a potential 5th high lottery pick to select Fultz
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
Don’t forget about the colossal whiff that was ET in 2010, ahead of DeMarcus Cousins, Hayward & PG13
Although he’s not a great player, Turner is pretty good. I think that the present day Sixers would be better if he was still around.
If C’s had drafted ET #2, it would be a disappointment IMO... it’s like taking Olynyk #2. Nice role player but
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
Don’t forget about the colossal whiff that was ET in 2010, ahead of DeMarcus Cousins, Hayward & PG13
Although he’s not a great player, Turner is pretty good. I think that the present day Sixers would be better if he was still around.
If C’s had drafted ET #2, it would be a disappointment IMO... it’s like taking Olynyk #2. Nice role player but
didn't they draft some guard , i forget the name , he had like five amazing games , one of the best first games ever for a guard scored like 50 points , then their tanki g system destroyed his brain , he was traded and now i have not heard anything about him. He was like one of the first high draft tank choices . They fired the best coach , got rid of ET ....so many stupid things , no respect for fans , basically a joke of a club, joke for a GM and maki g a farce of the draft system. If Philly NEVER has a suscess again i ll be happy .....its a curse for cheating , untill the idots that own the team sell out to decent people.
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
Don’t forget about the colossal whiff that was ET in 2010, ahead of DeMarcus Cousins, Hayward & PG13
Although he’s not a great player, Turner is pretty good. I think that the present day Sixers would be better if he was still around.
If C’s had drafted ET #2, it would be a disappointment IMO... it’s like taking Olynyk #2. Nice role player but
didn't they draft some guard , i forget the name , he had like five amazing games , one of the best first games ever for a guard scored like 50 points , then their tanki g system destroyed his brain , he was traded and now i have not heard anything about him. He was like one of the first high draft tank choices . They fired the best coach , got rid of ET ....so many stupid things , no respect for fans , basically a joke of a club, joke for a GM and maki g a farce of the draft system. If Philly NEVER has a suscess again i ll be happy .....its a curse for cheating , untill the idots that own the team sell out to decent people.
I think you’re combining Michael Carter Williams (Sixer; won ROY) and Brandon Jennings (not a Sixer; had a 50 point game early his rookie season).
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
Don’t forget about the colossal whiff that was ET in 2010, ahead of DeMarcus Cousins, Hayward & PG13
Although he’s not a great player, Turner is pretty good. I think that the present day Sixers would be better if he was still around.
If C’s had drafted ET #2, it would be a disappointment IMO... it’s like taking Olynyk #2. Nice role player but
didn't they draft some guard , i forget the name , he had like five amazing games , one of the best first games ever for a guard scored like 50 points , then their tanki g system destroyed his brain , he was traded and now i have not heard anything about him. He was like one of the first high draft tank choices . They fired the best coach , got rid of ET ....so many stupid things , no respect for fans , basically a joke of a club, joke for a GM and maki g a farce of the draft system. If Philly NEVER has a suscess again i ll be happy .....its a curse for cheating , untill the idots that own the team sell out to decent people.
I think you’re combining Michael Carter Williams (Sixer; won ROY) and Brandon Jennings (not a Sixer; had a 50 point game early his rookie season).
MCW is an interesting one. Philly played a system that really benefitted PG's, but its like he forgot how to play basketball after he left. He has a 2017-18 highlight reel of air balls and missed layups
-
MCW is an interesting one. Philly played a system that really benefitted PG's, but its like he forgot how to play basketball after he left. He has a 2017-18 highlight reel of air balls and missed layups
I'm not surprised he nearly flamed out with his poor shooting in college. Bad luck with their LAL pick staying in top 3 several times though.
Unfortunately Fultz's shooting is even worse right now.
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
To be fair, Noel was not their own pick. They traded Holiday for him, so they really only had picks that high for 4 years ending up with 3, 3, 1, 3 (remember they moved up for Fultz). It isn't as rare as you might think landing top 5 picks for 4 straight years. I mean the Cavs ended up with 4, 1, 4, 1 (they also landed Irving with a pick they acquired). Minnesota had a stretch where they went 6, 7, 3, 5/6 (same draft), 4, 2. How about this Chicago stretch starting with Brand and ending with Rose - 1, 4/7 (same draft), 2, 7, 3, 2, 9, 1. The Kings haven't not had a top 10 pick since 2008 and have had 5 top 5 picks in that time. The Lakers just came off of 3 consecutive picks at #2 and were at 7 the draft before that (and were 10 this past season though that went to Philly). I mean even the Thunder who got every pick right went 2, 4, 3 in consecutive seasons (I get that is only 3 years, but again they got every pick right and got a MVP at their spot in 3 straight years, which has basically never happened before).
-
Fultz when all is said and done would be the Bowie to Jordan...
Not saying Tatum will be MJ but just the impact... Tatum will have atleast an all star appearance in the horizon.. Fultz is looking like he will have a career projection like that of Livingston... But I don't think Fultz is in the league of Kwame Brown or Bennett who are probably the ultimate number one busts in history.
Oh I think Fultz could definitely be on the level of bust of Kwame Brown or Anthony Bennett. One year later after a season of the yips, he still looks horrible.
Look who else Philly could have grabbed
Tatum
Ball
Mitchell
Markennan
Kuzma
Smith, Jr.
Jackson
Fox
There will be a lot of excellent players from that draft the Sixers could have taken but instead they took a guy who could be out of the league in 4 years.
Mitchell was the #13 pick and Kuzma was #27. No one was taking them at #1 or #3. Markkanen wasn't going that high either and doesn't fit with the Sixers. Ball is really redundant and a lesser version of Simmons. Jackson and Smith Jr haven't done much to merit being on the list. I really like Fox but his fit with Simmons is questionable too.
The problem wasn't drafting Fultz. The problem was trading another top 1st rounder to do so. There's a good chance Fultz would have been available at #3 anyway.
-
They should be panicking Fultz is looking more and more like a blown pick. All that tanking and all those picks, you're bound to miss on one of them. Of course, with Fultz the signs were there his only college year when he vanished for half the year, and could not play his team,which good college players can, into the NCAA March Madness. They drank the Kool-aid and got on the hype train. People did here, too, it happens, no one is right all the time.
I don't root for Philly in any way, nor do I want them to right the ship. I recall them ganging on up on Bird. While, I really respected those Philly teams, I do not respect the new team. Embiid and Simmons are crybabies, and hard for an old school like me to like.
yeah but this would be the 2nd one. People forget that Okafor was a bust too.
2017: Markelle Fultz (#1)
2016: Ben Simmons (#1)
2015: Jahlil Okafor (#3)
2014: Joel Embiid (#3)
2013: Nerlens Noel (#6)
Having picks this high for 5 consecutive years is astonishing. If Fultz ends up being a huge whiff, Philly should be embarrassed by what they have to show their tanking. Yes they have a franchise cornerstone in Embiid and a future all star in Simmons, but this team could have been a juggernaut for a decade
Don’t forget about the colossal whiff that was ET in 2010, ahead of DeMarcus Cousins, Hayward & PG13
Although he’s not a great player, Turner is pretty good. I think that the present day Sixers would be better if he was still around.
No they wouldn't. They would have had to give Turner a really bad contract to keep him. People ignore that Indiana didn't keep Turner either. We only took him because he was cheap.