Author Topic: 76ers Fans Panicking over Fultz; Many Deeming Trade a Disaster  (Read 12639 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2018, 01:05:16 PM »

Offline Erik

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1649
  • Tommy Points: 235
  • The voice of reason
Who said that Pop is looking into rebuilding? They are trying to compete now. They have a competitive team with DeRozan (Gasol, Aldridge, Gay, DeRozan, Mills -- that's a playoff team in the West). Fultz, Saric and Covington probably wouldn't even be starters. That's how bad Philly is. Their team is literally Embiid. Simmons is too easy to stop and is a stats padder.

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2018, 01:32:36 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15718
  • Tommy Points: 1386
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz.  the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise.  last night didn't help that cause.  if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi.  They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.

1 game doesn't say much.  I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.

Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.

We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)

That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about?  The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground

Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1.  Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect.  2.  Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves.  3.  Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).

And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan.  He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old.  San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there.  They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made.  That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.

Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer.  There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.

Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?

 And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2018, 01:48:46 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33431
  • Tommy Points: 1532
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz.  the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise.  last night didn't help that cause.  if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi.  They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.

1 game doesn't say much.  I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.

Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.

We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)

That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about?  The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground

Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1.  Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect.  2.  Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves.  3.  Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).

And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan.  He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old.  San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there.  They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made.  That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.

Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer.  There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.

Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?

 And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
If Saric was 5 years in then yeah, but 2 years in, with a good amount of growth between the 1st and 2nd year (I get the per 36 are similar, but Saric was a much better player in his 2nd year then he was in his 1st year as evidenced by WS, BPM, VORP, etc.), you would expect that growth to continue.  I've said that I think he could be a 18/9/5 type player in the right system.  I expect him to be a lot better again this year, though as a 3rd option (at best) I don't think he gets those numbers.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2018, 01:50:28 PM »

Offline hpantazo

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24878
  • Tommy Points: 2697
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz.  the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise.  last night didn't help that cause.  if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi.  They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.

1 game doesn't say much.  I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.

Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.

We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)

That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about?  The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground

Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1.  Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect.  2.  Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves.  3.  Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).

And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan.  He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old.  San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there.  They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made.  That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.

Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer.  There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.

Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?

 And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
If Saric was 5 years in then yeah, but 2 years in, with a good amount of growth between the 1st and 2nd year (I get the per 36 are similar, but Saric was a much better player in his 2nd year then he was in his 1st year as evidenced by WS, BPM, VORP, etc.), you would expect that growth to continue.  I've said that I think he could be a 18/9/5 type player in the right system.  I expect him to be a lot better again this year, though as a 3rd option (at best) I don't think he gets those numbers.

I'm a fan of Saric, but he is what he is at this point. He played professionally long enough before coming to the NBA, there's not much room left for more development at his age and years of pro experience.

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2018, 01:56:53 PM »

Offline BaronV

  • Xavier Tillman
  • Posts: 27
  • Tommy Points: 8
They need to remember that they couldn't have had Tatum.  Danny had the #1 pick, and agreed to do the trade because he didn't want Fultz.  If Philly had said they were going to draft Tatum, Danny would have just taken him with the #1.  They could have had Ball (and his dad) instead, or one of the other top 10 choices.  It may take a couple of years to see how this plays out, but it sure looks like Philly messed up.  The chance of Fultz being as good as both one of the other top 10 picks in this draft, plus a top 10 pick from the 2019 draft (Kings pick) is pretty darn low. 

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2018, 02:09:07 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15718
  • Tommy Points: 1386
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz.  the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise.  last night didn't help that cause.  if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi.  They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.

1 game doesn't say much.  I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.

Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.

We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)

That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about?  The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground

Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1.  Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect.  2.  Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves.  3.  Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).

And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan.  He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old.  San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there.  They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made.  That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.

Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer.  There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.

Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?

 And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
If Saric was 5 years in then yeah, but 2 years in, with a good amount of growth between the 1st and 2nd year (I get the per 36 are similar, but Saric was a much better player in his 2nd year then he was in his 1st year as evidenced by WS, BPM, VORP, etc.), you would expect that growth to continue.  I've said that I think he could be a 18/9/5 type player in the right system.  I expect him to be a lot better again this year, though as a 3rd option (at best) I don't think he gets those numbers.

I'm a fan of Saric, but he is what he is at this point. He played professionally long enough before coming to the NBA, there's not much room left for more development at his age and years of pro experience.

Isn't Mirotic a pretty good comp here? He is been pretty much the exact same advanced stats since he came over at 23 with some shooting improvement. I'm just not thinking of a lot of european guys that blossomed when they were 25 or 26.

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2018, 02:16:13 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15718
  • Tommy Points: 1386
They need to remember that they couldn't have had Tatum.  Danny had the #1 pick, and agreed to do the trade because he didn't want Fultz.  If Philly had said they were going to draft Tatum, Danny would have just taken him with the #1.  They could have had Ball (and his dad) instead, or one of the other top 10 choices.  It may take a couple of years to see how this plays out, but it sure looks like Philly messed up.  The chance of Fultz being as good as both one of the other top 10 picks in this draft, plus a top 10 pick from the 2019 draft (Kings pick) is pretty darn low.

Do we think the trade is made with a promise of who they would take? If they said we are still deciding, would ainge refuse the deal?

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2018, 02:31:22 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33431
  • Tommy Points: 1532
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz.  the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise.  last night didn't help that cause.  if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi.  They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.

1 game doesn't say much.  I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.

Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.

We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)

That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about?  The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground

Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1.  Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect.  2.  Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves.  3.  Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).

And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan.  He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old.  San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there.  They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made.  That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.

Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer.  There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.

Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?

 And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
If Saric was 5 years in then yeah, but 2 years in, with a good amount of growth between the 1st and 2nd year (I get the per 36 are similar, but Saric was a much better player in his 2nd year then he was in his 1st year as evidenced by WS, BPM, VORP, etc.), you would expect that growth to continue.  I've said that I think he could be a 18/9/5 type player in the right system.  I expect him to be a lot better again this year, though as a 3rd option (at best) I don't think he gets those numbers.

I'm a fan of Saric, but he is what he is at this point. He played professionally long enough before coming to the NBA, there's not much room left for more development at his age and years of pro experience.

Isn't Mirotic a pretty good comp here? He is been pretty much the exact same advanced stats since he came over at 23 with some shooting improvement. I'm just not thinking of a lot of european guys that blossomed when they were 25 or 26.
Mirotic took a fairly big jump up in production this past season (and it wasn't all in Chicago) when he was 27 (he also started a year older than Saric did). 

I think Saric has some growth left in him.  He isn't going to become a monster or anything, but I certainly don't think he is a finished product at this point. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2018, 02:33:45 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12749
  • Tommy Points: 1544
They need to remember that they couldn't have had Tatum.  Danny had the #1 pick, and agreed to do the trade because he didn't want Fultz.  If Philly had said they were going to draft Tatum, Danny would have just taken him with the #1.  They could have had Ball (and his dad) instead, or one of the other top 10 choices.  It may take a couple of years to see how this plays out, but it sure looks like Philly messed up.  The chance of Fultz being as good as both one of the other top 10 picks in this draft, plus a top 10 pick from the 2019 draft (Kings pick) is pretty darn low.

Do we think the trade is made with a promise of who they would take? If they said we are still deciding, would ainge refuse the deal?

I don't think Ainge had any promise from Philly who they were going to draft with the #1 pick. But I'm sure he strongly enough suspected it would be Fultz. I also think Ainge would have been comfortable drafting Josh Jackson at #3 if Philly had pulled a fast one on him and drafted Tatum #1, with LAL drafting Ball #2. Ainge clearly wanted no part of Fultz.

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2018, 02:37:30 PM »

Offline BaronV

  • Xavier Tillman
  • Posts: 27
  • Tommy Points: 8
They need to remember that they couldn't have had Tatum.  Danny had the #1 pick, and agreed to do the trade because he didn't want Fultz.  If Philly had said they were going to draft Tatum, Danny would have just taken him with the #1.  They could have had Ball (and his dad) instead, or one of the other top 10 choices.  It may take a couple of years to see how this plays out, but it sure looks like Philly messed up.  The chance of Fultz being as good as both one of the other top 10 picks in this draft, plus a top 10 pick from the 2019 draft (Kings pick) is pretty darn low.

Do we think the trade is made with a promise of who they would take? If they said we are still deciding, would ainge refuse the deal?

No way to know for sure, but it seems that way.  If I was making that deal, I would ask them who they were planning to take.  Sure, they could lie about it, but if they did, word would get out that they had a gentlemen's agreement and one team reneged on it, and no one would want to deal with that team/GM again. 

In some cases, the trade is actually made as soon as the picks are made, though I don't think that happened this time - since we had the #1 pick, there was no risk of another team screwing up the deal, as LA had made it obvious they were drafting Ball in the #2 spot.  In those cases, the GMs get together and say 'I want Fultz' and 'I want Tatum', and once the picks are made, the trades happen.  I think Danny did this when we got Kelly O, though I can't remember offhand who we drafted. 

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #55 on: October 17, 2018, 02:38:05 PM »

Offline hpantazo

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24878
  • Tommy Points: 2697
We dump on Phili for taking Fultz, as we should, but we forget that the Lakers also passed on Tatum for Ball. That's almost as bad, except they didn't trade a future lottery pick to do it.

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #56 on: October 17, 2018, 02:50:51 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15718
  • Tommy Points: 1386
this is what I couldn't understand this offseason when several people here (you know who you are) thought that the Sixers could land players like Butler or Kawhi with a package centered around Fultz.  the kid is damaged goods until he proves otherwise.  last night didn't help that cause.  if he doesn't get it together by the end of the season, his value drops to that of a throw-in in a trade rather than a centerpiece or major piece.
Completely agree. Packages of Fultz, Covington/Saric and a pick were laughable
and yet by most reasonable reports, that is exactly the type of trade that would have landed them Kawhi.  They just didn't want to give up Fultz in the trade.

1 game doesn't say much.  I mean if you go by 1 game, then Rozier is better than Irving.

Maybe those reports were wrong and San Antonio didn't want Fultz, but Philly was insistent on including him because that was the only way they could make the money work.

We can't just gloss over his contract:
2018/19 - $8,339,880
2019/20 - $9,745,200 (team option)
2020/21 - $12,288,697 (team option)
2021/22 - $15,975,306 (qualifying offer)

That is some serious money, especially for a guy that is closer to being a bust than even being a low level starting PG. I understand a new team doesn't have to pick up their team option after this season, but why would you trade assets, if you have doubts about commiting to Fultz and his potential.
what are you talking about?  The reports were San An wanted Fultz and Philly wouldn't part with him, which is why the trade never got off the ground

Why would San Antonio trade a top five player in the world for two journeyman starters and a bust? It would only make sense if San Antonio was just trying to come up with various trade options to try to increase Kawhi's trade value. Do you actually think Coach Popovich wants to coach such a mentally unstable player at this point in his career?
1.  Saric is no where near a journeyman starter. He is an up and coming prospect.  2.  Covington is exactly the type of player Pop loves.  3.  Fultz isn't a bust (or at least you can't call him one yet just 15 games into a career).

And what does San Antonio look like building around DeRozan.  He isn't exactly young and the rest of the main pieces are old.  San Antonio is going to be in no mans land in a season or two, if they aren't already there.  They absolutely would have been better offer taking a chance on Fultz, Saric, and Covington then the trade they made.  That just wasn't an option for them and Saric and Covington (with a 1st) is not better then the DeRozan package.

Whether you think it was a good idea or not, had Philadelphia included Fultz, Leonard would have been a Sixer.  There were just way too many articles out there, from all over the place (i.e. San An, Philly, and nationally) for all of the reports to be wrong.

Saric is 1 month younger than Smart. I think most of us on this blog accept Smart as more or less what he is with some light hope of him improving his shooting a bit. How does that make Saric an "up and coming prospect.?

 And I don't mean this as a dig on you specifically Moranis because I realize you know how old he is from other discussion, but I feel like the average fan doesn't realize how old Saric is because he played over in a Europe a few years and was a very old rookie. I see the same thing happening with Dunn in Chicago.
If Saric was 5 years in then yeah, but 2 years in, with a good amount of growth between the 1st and 2nd year (I get the per 36 are similar, but Saric was a much better player in his 2nd year then he was in his 1st year as evidenced by WS, BPM, VORP, etc.), you would expect that growth to continue.  I've said that I think he could be a 18/9/5 type player in the right system.  I expect him to be a lot better again this year, though as a 3rd option (at best) I don't think he gets those numbers.

I'm a fan of Saric, but he is what he is at this point. He played professionally long enough before coming to the NBA, there's not much room left for more development at his age and years of pro experience.

Isn't Mirotic a pretty good comp here? He is been pretty much the exact same advanced stats since he came over at 23 with some shooting improvement. I'm just not thinking of a lot of european guys that blossomed when they were 25 or 26.
Mirotic took a fairly big jump up in production this past season (and it wasn't all in Chicago) when he was 27 (he also started a year older than Saric did). 

I think Saric has some growth left in him.  He isn't going to become a monster or anything, but I certainly don't think he is a finished product at this point.

What jump are you referencing? You were arguing that Saric made a jump last season because of his WS, BPM, VORP. Mirotics Vorp was the same total last year as it was the year before (unless i am looking at this wrong). His WS was basically the same (3.8 to 4.0). His BPM was actually significantly worse last year than his first two seasons in the league (1.2 compared to .6). His per 100 posessions all look pretty similar to me. Am I missing something with this jump?


Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2018, 02:52:12 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15718
  • Tommy Points: 1386
We dump on Phili for taking Fultz, as we should, but we forget that the Lakers also passed on Tatum for Ball. That's almost as bad, except they didn't trade a future lottery pick to do it.

I think in some ways Fultz and the philly organization is making this worse. Fultz should clearly not be starting right now, it feels like a move made for non basketball reasons. Fultz's agent came out and said he would be an all-star. While somewhat shockingly, Ball's dad has actually been mostly quiet over the offseason.

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2018, 02:56:36 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • NCE
  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15402
  • Tommy Points: 2785
I don't like threads like this.

Enough GM's read this and soon no one will want to do a deal with us, in fear of getting Ainge'd.

But seriously I believe Fultz will turn out to be a stud - "AFTER" BOS finishes its championship run in a few years.

Re: 76ers fans panicking over fultz, many deeming the trade a disaster
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2018, 03:03:51 PM »

Offline hpantazo

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24878
  • Tommy Points: 2697
I don't like threads like this.

Enough GM's read this and soon no one will want to do a deal with us, in fear of getting Ainge'd.

But seriously I believe Fultz will turn out to be a stud - "AFTER" BOS finishes its championship run in a few years.

I don't think he will ever be a stud in this league. If everything works out for him, he may become a capable starter at best.