Stop the Ray bashing already!

[Roy Hobbs]

And this "shooting slump" Ray is supposedly in has been pretty much season long.

Some facts:

• Ray is shooting 45.6% from the field overall, better than his career average
• Ray's current eFG% (.522) is almost exactly the same as his career average (.523).
• Ray's current TS% (.573) is almost exactly the same as his career average (.575).
• In December, Ray shot 39.5% from three.
• In the first eight games in January, Ray was shooting 40.0% from three, and 51.1% overall.

In the last two games, Ray has been horrible offensively.  6-for-24 overall (25.0%), and 1-for-9 from three.  However, this is a slump, and in no way is indicative of his numbers overall, or in the last two months.

[EJPLAYA]

When Andre Miller abuses Ray, I think its fair to say Celtics got problems. And that $18 mil exp contract is a worse alot when so many teams are pushing hard to get under the cap for 2010 free agency.

I have news for you. Andre Miller also abused TA while out there on the floor. TA had 23 minutes out there and while out there was on Andre Miller much of that time.

Anyone bashing Ray better step back and ask how many of the Celtics during this losing stretch came to play and gave it 100%. Ray comes hard every night. He does't quit, he doesn't complain.  If you want to bash someone who has played terrible D in this stretch bash PP. Bash Rondo much of the time. Bash Perk for taking himself out of the game committing stupid needless fouls. Don't bash the only guy other than KG (and House)  who brings it always. I guarantee you that TA wouldn't have made that 3!

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And this "shooting slump" Ray is supposedly in has been pretty much season long.

Some facts:

• Ray is shooting 45.6% from the field overall, better than his career average
• Ray's current eFG% (.522) is almost exactly the same as his career average (.523).
• In December, Ray shot 39.5% from three.
• In the first eight games in January, Ray was shooting 40.0% from three, and 51.1% overall.

In the last two games, Ray has been horrible offensively.  6-for-24 overall (25.0%), and 1-for-9 from three.  However, this is a slump, and in no way is indicative of his numbers overall, or in the last two months.

That's exactly the kind of thing that Red would've been talking up...right before trading him for better players.

As I posted elsewhere, I firmly believe that percentages and stats, expecially in the regular season in a very weak conference, are not the way to assess a player (except, perhaps, in a limited way, i.e. "can he shoot", which is not the same as "can he play").  

In the playoffs, it's about matchups, so let's talk matchups:  Wade, Jackson, Carter, and JJ.  Ray will be exploited in a series against these guys, and we might have to play 3 of them before seeing Kobe in the Finals.  Ouch.

Just sayin'...

[BballTim]

If you want to bash someone who has played terrible D in this stretch bash PP. Bash Rondo much of the time.

  Sure. Bash the guys that are/were fighting through injuries.

  Yep, it's still CelticsBlog.

[GreenFaith1819]

And this "shooting slump" Ray is supposedly in has been pretty much season long.

Some facts:

• Ray is shooting 45.6% from the field overall, better than his career average
• Ray's current eFG% (.522) is almost exactly the same as his career average (.523).
• In December, Ray shot 39.5% from three.
• In the first eight games in January, Ray was shooting 40.0% from three, and 51.1% overall.

In the last two games, Ray has been horrible offensively.  6-for-24 overall (25.0%), and 1-for-9 from three.  However, this is a slump, and in no way is indicative of his numbers overall, or in the last two months.

That's exactly the kind of thing that Red would've been talking up...right before trading him for better players.

As I posted elsewhere, I firmly believe that percentages and stats, expecially in the regular season in a very weak conference, are not the way to assess a player (except, perhaps, in a limited way, i.e. "can he shoot", which is not the same as "can he play").  

In the playoffs, it's about matchups, so let's talk matchups:  Wade, Jackson, Carter, and JJ.  Ray will be exploited in a series against these guys, and we might have to play 3 of them before seeing Kobe in the Finals.  Ouch.

Just sayin'...

I don't believe that Red would trade Ray if he were still here and in charge...I know a lot of discussion has been here on the Blog about what Danny would do (and would've done back then in the late 80's) and all, but go back 20-23 years and God forbid the Bias thing I really believe that Red would have let Larry, Kevin, and Chief ride off into the sunset - with Bias basking in the sunrise.

I don't think he would've entertained a trade back then...and with the tragedy any man would've been spent emotionally.

I apologize for taking the thread slightly off-course folks, but I just don't think Red would've done it.

Or do it now, in Ray's case.

[ejk3489]

When Andre Miller abuses Ray, I think its fair to say Celtics got problems. And that $18 mil exp contract is a worse alot when so many teams are pushing hard to get under the cap for 2010 free agency.

If you want to bash someone who has played terrible D in this stretch bash PP. Bash Rondo much of the time. Bash Perk for taking himself out of the game committing stupid needless fouls. Don't bash the only guy other than KG (and House)  who brings it always. I guarantee you that TA wouldn't have made that 3!

Seriously? Rondo is practically the only player on our team right now that consistently "brings it" at every game. How can you honestly say that House, who is playing horrible right now, is playing harder than those guys (Rondo/Pierce)?

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And this "shooting slump" Ray is supposedly in has been pretty much season long.

Some facts:

• Ray is shooting 45.6% from the field overall, better than his career average
• Ray's current eFG% (.522) is almost exactly the same as his career average (.523).
• In December, Ray shot 39.5% from three.
• In the first eight games in January, Ray was shooting 40.0% from three, and 51.1% overall.

In the last two games, Ray has been horrible offensively.  6-for-24 overall (25.0%), and 1-for-9 from three.  However, this is a slump, and in no way is indicative of his numbers overall, or in the last two months.

That's exactly the kind of thing that Red would've been talking up...right before trading him for better players.

As I posted elsewhere, I firmly believe that percentages and stats, expecially in the regular season in a very weak conference, are not the way to assess a player (except, perhaps, in a limited way, i.e. "can he shoot", which is not the same as "can he play").  

In the playoffs, it's about matchups, so let's talk matchups:  Wade, Jackson, Carter, and JJ.  Ray will be exploited in a series against these guys, and we might have to play 3 of them before seeing Kobe in the Finals.  Ouch.

Just sayin'...

I don't believe that Red would trade Ray if he were still here and in charge...I know a lot of discussion has been here on the Blog about what Danny would do (and would've done back then in the late 80's) and all, but go back 20-23 years and God forbid the Bias thing I really believe that Red would have let Larry, Kevin, and Chief ride off into the sunset - with Bias basking in the sunrise.

I don't think he would've entertained a trade back then...and with the tragedy any man would've been spent emotionally.

I apologize for taking the thread slightly off-course folks, but I just don't think Red would've done it.

Or do it now, in Ray's case.

You are certainly correct that a Bias/Lewis rise would have hopefully kept us competitive into the '90's, and consequently also correct that there is no reason to expect that Red would've traded McHale.  Your argument falters, though, because you also point out that there were players in place to replace them. 

My point was that Red was willing to trade guys that were sentatmental fan favorites and seemed key (i.e. McCauley and, much, much later, Cornbread) to improve the team.  I don't think he'd be afraid to trade Ray, especially since there is absolutely nobody in line to replace him on the current roster as he retires; we don't even have a decent draft pick anytime soon.

Of course, there is no way to know:  What Would Red Do?

I only mentioned Red because he was one of the shrewedest and most successful GM's ever, precisely because he was willing to make bold deals to improve the team.

[Tai]

And this "shooting slump" Ray is supposedly in has been pretty much season long.

Some facts:

• Ray is shooting 45.6% from the field overall, better than his career average
• Ray's current eFG% (.522) is almost exactly the same as his career average (.523).
• In December, Ray shot 39.5% from three.
• In the first eight games in January, Ray was shooting 40.0% from three, and 51.1% overall.

In the last two games, Ray has been horrible offensively.  6-for-24 overall (25.0%), and 1-for-9 from three.  However, this is a slump, and in no way is indicative of his numbers overall, or in the last two months.

That's exactly the kind of thing that Red would've been talking up...right before trading him for better players.

As I posted elsewhere, I firmly believe that percentages and stats, expecially in the regular season in a very weak conference, are not the way to assess a player (except, perhaps, in a limited way, i.e. "can he shoot", which is not the same as "can he play").  

In the playoffs, it's about matchups, so let's talk matchups:  Wade, Jackson, Carter, and JJ.  Ray will be exploited in a series against these guys, and we might have to play 3 of them before seeing Kobe in the Finals.  Ouch.

Just sayin'...

Cute that you'll downplay Ray this way but not said other SGs.

Cute that Roy brings up facts and you only bring up pure spin.

[PosImpos]

All this talk about trading Ray.

Who are we trading him for?  Realistically?  I don't think I've seen a single realistic trade idea yet that would certainly make our team better and not screw us over financially in the long term.

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And this "shooting slump" Ray is supposedly in has been pretty much season long.

Some facts:

• Ray is shooting 45.6% from the field overall, better than his career average
• Ray's current eFG% (.522) is almost exactly the same as his career average (.523).
• In December, Ray shot 39.5% from three.
• In the first eight games in January, Ray was shooting 40.0% from three, and 51.1% overall.

In the last two games, Ray has been horrible offensively.  6-for-24 overall (25.0%), and 1-for-9 from three.  However, this is a slump, and in no way is indicative of his numbers overall, or in the last two months.

That's exactly the kind of thing that Red would've been talking up...right before trading him for better players.

As I posted elsewhere, I firmly believe that percentages and stats, expecially in the regular season in a very weak conference, are not the way to assess a player (except, perhaps, in a limited way, i.e. "can he shoot", which is not the same as "can he play").  

In the playoffs, it's about matchups, so let's talk matchups:  Wade, Jackson, Carter, and JJ.  Ray will be exploited in a series against these guys, and we might have to play 3 of them before seeing Kobe in the Finals.  Ouch.

Just sayin'...

Cute that you'll downplay Ray this way but not said other SGs.

Cute that Roy brings up facts and you only bring up pure spin.

It's easier to minimize a person by calling their argument "cute" than to refute it.  I am arguing that % against general competition, in a weak conference, are less relevant than matchups against playoff opponents.  That's "cute"?  Come on.  Don't be a jerk.

So answer it:  How do you like Ray in those matchups over 7 games?

[Roy Hobbs]

And this "shooting slump" Ray is supposedly in has been pretty much season long.

Some facts:

• Ray is shooting 45.6% from the field overall, better than his career average
• Ray's current eFG% (.522) is almost exactly the same as his career average (.523).
• In December, Ray shot 39.5% from three.
• In the first eight games in January, Ray was shooting 40.0% from three, and 51.1% overall.

In the last two games, Ray has been horrible offensively.  6-for-24 overall (25.0%), and 1-for-9 from three.  However, this is a slump, and in no way is indicative of his numbers overall, or in the last two months.

That's exactly the kind of thing that Red would've been talking up...right before trading him for better players.

As I posted elsewhere, I firmly believe that percentages and stats, expecially in the regular season in a very weak conference, are not the way to assess a player (except, perhaps, in a limited way, i.e. "can he shoot", which is not the same as "can he play").  

In the playoffs, it's about matchups, so let's talk matchups:  Wade, Jackson, Carter, and JJ.  Ray will be exploited in a series against these guys, and we might have to play 3 of them before seeing Kobe in the Finals.  Ouch.

Just sayin'...

Cute that you'll downplay Ray this way but not said other SGs.

Cute that Roy brings up facts and you only bring up pure spin.

It's easier to minimize a person by calling their argument "cute" than to refute it.  I am arguing that % against general competition, in a weak conference, are less relevant than matchups against playoff opponents.  That's "cute"?  Come on.  Don't be a jerk.

So answer it:  How do you like Ray in those matchups over 7 games?

You act like Ray is supposed to win his matchups with guys like Wade or Johnson.  Those are the best players on their respective teams, while Ray is only the third or fourth best on our team.

Ray's job isn't to play Wade or Johnson to a standstill.  Instead, he needs to make them work for their points, while adding scoring and spacing on the other end.

[More Banners]

And this "shooting slump" Ray is supposedly in has been pretty much season long.

Some facts:

• Ray is shooting 45.6% from the field overall, better than his career average
• Ray's current eFG% (.522) is almost exactly the same as his career average (.523).
• In December, Ray shot 39.5% from three.
• In the first eight games in January, Ray was shooting 40.0% from three, and 51.1% overall.

In the last two games, Ray has been horrible offensively.  6-for-24 overall (25.0%), and 1-for-9 from three.  However, this is a slump, and in no way is indicative of his numbers overall, or in the last two months.

That's exactly the kind of thing that Red would've been talking up...right before trading him for better players.

As I posted elsewhere, I firmly believe that percentages and stats, expecially in the regular season in a very weak conference, are not the way to assess a player (except, perhaps, in a limited way, i.e. "can he shoot", which is not the same as "can he play").  

In the playoffs, it's about matchups, so let's talk matchups:  Wade, Jackson, Carter, and JJ.  Ray will be exploited in a series against these guys, and we might have to play 3 of them before seeing Kobe in the Finals.  Ouch.

Just sayin'...

Cute that you'll downplay Ray this way but not said other SGs.

Cute that Roy brings up facts and you only bring up pure spin.

It's easier to minimize a person by calling their argument "cute" than to refute it.  I am arguing that % against general competition, in a weak conference, are less relevant than matchups against playoff opponents.  That's "cute"?  Come on.  Don't be a jerk.

So answer it:  How do you like Ray in those matchups over 7 games?

You act like Ray is supposed to win his matchups with guys like Wade or Johnson.  Those are the best players on their respective teams, while Ray is only the third or fourth best on our team.

Ray's job isn't to play Wade or Johnson to a standstill.  Instead, he needs to make them work for their points, while adding scoring and spacing on the other end.

Agreed.  The question is, then, will Ray make them work for it?

(also, your very valid point also points out how important it is to have a solid wing defender to get by these guys in the playoffs)

[EJPLAYA]

When Andre Miller abuses Ray, I think its fair to say Celtics got problems. And that $18 mil exp contract is a worse alot when so many teams are pushing hard to get under the cap for 2010 free agency.

If you want to bash someone who has played terrible D in this stretch bash PP. Bash Rondo much of the time. Bash Perk for taking himself out of the game committing stupid needless fouls. Don't bash the only guy other than KG (and House)  who brings it always. I guarantee you that TA wouldn't have made that 3!

Seriously? Rondo is practically the only player on our team right now that consistently "brings it" at every game. How can you honestly say that House, who is playing horrible right now, is playing harder than those guys (Rondo/Pierce)?

Yes seriously. Rondo brings it offensively 90% of the time. Many nights though on defense he doesn't. If you want to point fingers at someone allowing their man to blow past them you better point them at him as well. His typical "poke from behind" defense is maddening because it causes the rest of the defense to break down. At least Ray is doing it at times because his legs are old. Rondo is just playing lazy defense. If you refuse to see that you're just giving him a pass because he does so many other things well.

[BballTim]

When Andre Miller abuses Ray, I think its fair to say Celtics got problems. And that $18 mil exp contract is a worse alot when so many teams are pushing hard to get under the cap for 2010 free agency.

If you want to bash someone who has played terrible D in this stretch bash PP. Bash Rondo much of the time. Bash Perk for taking himself out of the game committing stupid needless fouls. Don't bash the only guy other than KG (and House)  who brings it always. I guarantee you that TA wouldn't have made that 3!

Seriously? Rondo is practically the only player on our team right now that consistently "brings it" at every game. How can you honestly say that House, who is playing horrible right now, is playing harder than those guys (Rondo/Pierce)?

Yes seriously. Rondo brings it offensively 90% of the time. Many nights though on defense he doesn't. If you want to point fingers at someone allowing their man to blow past them you better point them at him as well. His typical "poke from behind" defense is maddening because it causes the rest of the defense to break down. At least Ray is doing it at times because his legs are old. Rondo is just playing lazy defense. If you refuse to see that you're just giving him a pass because he does so many other things well.

  Who keeps point guards in front of them all the time without using hand checks and with those pgs running past picks on almost every play? Right now he's probably the odds on favorite for first team all-nba defensive team.

[vinnie]

I don't want to trade Ray, but anyone who thinks that the Celts could get someone the Caliber of a Wade or Joe Johnson for Ray needs to think again. Although I would like to speak with the person about some great land I have for sale in Florida --