Author Topic: Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching  (Read 217526 times)

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Offline kraidstar

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I’m coming to this thread after the Heat series to collect some receipts.  Oh heavens, they lost a game!
The Celtics are folding under pressure yet again and you're not alarmed?  We just lost a home game to what is, by far, the least talented roster in the playoffs.

Offline 0003323344

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For what it's worth, the Celtics gave up the most 3PM, 3PA and the highest percentage in the regular season.

3PM   3PA  3P%
16.5   42.5   38.8

Offline Vermont Green

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26 open 3PTs for us, versus 37 for them.  Almost 50% more. 

Miami effectively limited our three point attempts, whereas according to the actual players on the court, we left Miami open by design.

Too broad of conclusion based on the data.  It is just like Celtics2021 said.  Celtics started to miss some open and wide open 3s so made an effort to get to the hoop more, to post up Porzingis (who couldn't hit anything).  So our volume of 3PA was less.  The Celtics were getting plenty of open and wide open 3PA looks per the data.  They just weren't hitting them and drove or posted more.

I am not sure that MIA did anything to take away the 3.  And if they did, taking it to the hoop was the right adjustment, we just didn't hit our shots.

I do agree that we will need to defend the 3 better moving forward.  I don't think MIA will continue to hit at the same rate (although yes, I said that last year too).  I do think that BOS needs to take it to the hoop, not always settle for the 3.  Nothing wrong with that.  No adjustment needed.  Continue to take what they are given.

What I think MIA did better was they extended their defense farther out, got into it earlier.  That makes it harder whether you take it to the hoop, post up, or take a 3.  There was no particular scheme to take away 3s.  The scheme was to make everything hard. 

Offline Donoghus

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I’m coming to this thread after the Heat series to collect some receipts.  Oh heavens, they lost a game!
The Celtics are folding under pressure yet again and you're not alarmed?  We just lost a home game to what is, by far, the least talented roster in the playoffs.

Did I expect them to go 16-0 in the playoffs?  No.

Are they trailing in this series?  No.

Am I alarmed?  No.


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Offline kraidstar

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We can't defend anything if we're not playing with poise. Does anybody wonder why these Heat scrubs consistently get whatever shot they want against us?

They know we're constantly panicking and that we overreact to everything. A quick pass, head fake, or feint leads to bad double teams, missed coverage, late coverage, the works. All they have to do is move the ball around a little bit and we'll eventually misread the play and bite on something stupid.

The Heat are playing with house money while we have the weight of the world on our shoulders. The Celtics didn't regain their composure until they were down 0-3 last ECF. Then they were playing with house money until game 7.

Spoelstra has brainwashed his team into staying loose. Our guys are wound tight enough to snap. You can't win like that. This isn't about X's and O's. It's about psychology and mental toughness.

Offline kraidstar

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I’m coming to this thread after the Heat series to collect some receipts.  Oh heavens, they lost a game!
The Celtics are folding under pressure yet again and you're not alarmed?  We just lost a home game to what is, by far, the least talented roster in the playoffs.

Did I expect them to go 16-0 in the playoffs?  No.

Are they trailing in this series?  No.

Am I alarmed?  No.

You should be. It's unlikely we win a championship playing with such poor composure. When we encounter a Curry or a Jokic or a Spoelstra we will lose. Guys who feast on weak-minded teams. It's only a matter of time unless someone steps up and provides some leadership.

Online Neurotic Guy

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I’m coming to this thread after the Heat series to collect some receipts.  Oh heavens, they lost a game!
The Celtics are folding under pressure yet again and you're not alarmed?  We just lost a home game to what is, by far, the least talented roster in the playoffs.

Did I expect them to go 16-0 in the playoffs?  No.

Are they trailing in this series?  No.

Am I alarmed?  No.

I’m with you, but that may change after games 3 and 4.  If the Cs don’t take over this series by the time they’re back in Boston, it certainly will be reason for concern.

Online Moranis

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As I said in the other thread,  Boston isn't going to win if it can only score on 3 of the 16 possessions Tatum is on the bench.  They have to find an offense without Tatum.
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Offline Donoghus

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I’m coming to this thread after the Heat series to collect some receipts.  Oh heavens, they lost a game!
The Celtics are folding under pressure yet again and you're not alarmed?  We just lost a home game to what is, by far, the least talented roster in the playoffs.

Did I expect them to go 16-0 in the playoffs?  No.

Are they trailing in this series?  No.

Am I alarmed?  No.

You should be. It's unlikely we win a championship playing with such poor composure. When we encounter a Curry or a Jokic or a Spoelstra we will lose. Guys who feast on weak-minded teams. It's only a matter of time unless someone steps up and provides some leadership.

Feel free to blow me up come June if they're not in the Finals.

Until then, I recommend enjoying the rollercoaster ride.  ;)


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Offline SparzWizard

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I’m coming to this thread after the Heat series to collect some receipts.  Oh heavens, they lost a game!
The Celtics are folding under pressure yet again and you're not alarmed?  We just lost a home game to what is, by far, the least talented roster in the playoffs.

Did I expect them to go 16-0 in the playoffs?  No.

Are they trailing in this series?  No.

Am I alarmed?  No.

I’m with you, but that may change after games 3 and 4.  If the Cs don’t take over this series by the time they’re back in Boston, it certainly will be reason for concern.

I think Celtics fans will be on suicide watch if they're down 3-1.


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Online Roy H.

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I don't think it's necessary to be "alarmed" right now.

But, I am concerned.  It's not that we lost.  It's that we have every reason to believe that Joe is going to be a hurdle to overcome, rather than an aid.  He's too rigid of a thinker.



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Offline SCeltic34

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I’m coming to this thread after the Heat series to collect some receipts.  Oh heavens, they lost a game!

The C's will win this series.  I predicted in 5 games.  Doesn't mean that Joe did a good job at every point in the series.  Game 2 was about as bad as you could get, IMO.

Not alarmed.  But there's no reason for the C's to lose game 3, or be down against a massively inferior Heat team at any point in this series.

Offline jpotter33

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26 open 3PTs for us, versus 37 for them.  Almost 50% more. 

Miami effectively limited our three point attempts, whereas according to the actual players on the court, we left Miami open by design.

Too broad of conclusion based on the data.  It is just like Celtics2021 said.  Celtics started to miss some open and wide open 3s so made an effort to get to the hoop more, to post up Porzingis (who couldn't hit anything).  So our volume of 3PA was less.  The Celtics were getting plenty of open and wide open 3PA looks per the data.  They just weren't hitting them and drove or posted more.

I am not sure that MIA did anything to take away the 3.  And if they did, taking it to the hoop was the right adjustment, we just didn't hit our shots.

I do agree that we will need to defend the 3 better moving forward.  I don't think MIA will continue to hit at the same rate (although yes, I said that last year too).  I do think that BOS needs to take it to the hoop, not always settle for the 3.  Nothing wrong with that.  No adjustment needed.  Continue to take what they are given.

What I think MIA did better was they extended their defense farther out, got into it earlier.  That makes it harder whether you take it to the hoop, post up, or take a 3.  There was no particular scheme to take away 3s.  The scheme was to make everything hard.

Of course there was. As you mentioned, they extended the D out further on the perimeter, but they also started switching everything and giving us the mismatches to bait us into trying to exploit those instead of taking more threes. This has been an issue for us all year long where we sometimes get too focused on exploiting mismatches even when not working efficiently, which bogs down the offense. This effectively limited our three point attempts, which as we all know does not bode well for us as we generally only win when putting up lots of threes.

All that said, I think the offense was much less concerning than the defense. They’re a good defensive team even without Butler and Rozier, and they can do lots of defensive scheming to mess with us that we can eventually figure out with our elite offensive talent. It’s our defense that was the main culprit last night, as that’s where we have the biggest advantage and should really be limiting them. Instead, we made zero adjustments to our scheme even knowing EXACTLY what Miami was going to do with us just playing the percentages, and it burned us just like it did last year.


This is where Joe is truly awful. He’s too dogmatic and stuck in his ways to adjust his gameplan, which was clearly needed from the get-go last night. At some point, you absolutely cannot just continue to “play the percentages” if they’re consistently beating you. The Ringer podcast excoriated Joe for his gameplan last night and did a good job breaking down some of the lack of adjustments and how Spo exploited them.

EDIT: And to be honest, the entire defensive gameplan from the start is non-sense. Without Rozier or Butler, they simply don’t have enough offensive firepower to beat you playing straight up. So why are we going to this gimmicky defense that gives them open look after open look and just gives them the opportunity and tools to beat us? Instead of gift-wrapping Herro and Robinson and others open threes off the high PnR and/or the over-help on the PnR ball-handler, just play them straight up and make them beat you in iso.m, which is much more difficult for them than hitting step-in threes or threes off the triple threat. It’s ludicrous.

Offline jpotter33

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https://x.com/billsimmons/status/1783517033008930925?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

Quote
KP had a bad Game 2. If Miami does that again, he’ll torch them. 

The real prob: Boston’s D strategy was awful. They have Jrue/White/JB + didn’t pressure/hound a team w/ zero PG’s? Mia got whatever the F they wanted. It wasn’t “welp they made 3s.” They were WAY too comfortable.

Online Roy H.

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https://x.com/billsimmons/status/1783517033008930925?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

Quote
KP had a bad Game 2. If Miami does that again, he’ll torch them. 

The real prob: Boston’s D strategy was awful. They have Jrue/White/JB + didn’t pressure/hound a team w/ zero PG’s? Mia got whatever the F they wanted. It wasn’t “welp they made 3s.” They were WAY too comfortable.

Yeah.  They let Tyler Herro sit back and get 14 assists.  How does that even happen?


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes