Doc calling out bloggers

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think it's perfectly appropriate for bloggers to criticize public figures, whether it be coaches, players, politicians, actresses, or whoever. 

I don't buy the "you have to have been in the field to properly criticize it".  That's bunk, and even moreso, plenty of professionals have been questioning Doc lately.

The other part of Doc's argument -- that people should listen to him and his coaching staff about the job he's doing -- is even more ridiculous.  What coach is going to admit "you know, I suck at my job, and I'm really in over my head"?

I'm not criticizing Doc's coaching here -- there are plenty of other threads for that -- but his reasoning about bloggers is pretty asinine.

People shouldn't take the words of some random bloggers over experts in the field though, and that's what his main critique is and he's quite accurate in that. You can criticize Doc all you want, but we're some random bloggers with who knows what background. Why should Doc or anyone for that matter listen to us? Just like everywhere there are people that know their stuff, but just the same there are a ton of people that talk a ton of crap and are quite evidently clueless about basketball. The opions show up just the same, so why should Doc or anyone listen or take the critiques seriously? There's little credibility, and all bloggers make a ton of baseless assumptions with a limited amount of facts available to them.

[Section 87]

I don't think Doc is saying that bloggers shouldn't criticize him at all. He's just saying that he thinks it's funny when he's criticized by bloggers who have no idea what they're talking about. I think some of it is hilarious, too, and some of the funniest gags have been here on CelticsBlog.com.

[CelticsWhat35]

Interesting quote from the Herald today:

But then, in so many words, the good Doc did tell his critics to kiss off.

“I like what we’ve done,” he said. “I coach the way I coach. I’ve always laughed at some of the criticism. I was joking with someone the other day, and I said, ‘Answer me this. Why would someone listen to a guy that hasn’t played, he hasn’t coached . . . some of the guys have never even been reporters, they’re bloggers, and not listen to a guy and his whole staff who have played and coached? Now who’s the fool? Me, or the people listening to them?’ ”


Doc really calling out his critics.  Ya know what?...good for him.  We've mostly all criticized him at some point.  He is a professional doing his job, and quite frankly, has his team one win away from the NBA Finals.  He knows he must be doing something right.

Good ol' Doc.  He can't coach, but he's good for a laugh.  I assume he's never given his wife advice or criticism on anything pertaining to women, women's relationships, etc...

Yeah, he can't coach.  He took 3 future HoF'ers, one extremely volatile one, to the ECF and probably the finals in his first year, garnering the NBA's best record along the way.  Terrible coach if you ask me.

Wow, he can coach 3 Hall of Famers in a staggeringly weak conference?  That's amazing and, doubtless, nobody's ever won a lot of games with 3 Hall of Famers in their lineup before.  Hey, how'd he do last season?

Oh yeah, I'm sure it was just a given that the Celtics would be on the brink of the Finals going into the season.  Please.  The majority of people laughed at the notion of the Celtics being a contender a year after being the "laughing stock" of the league, even many on this blog (but not you I'm sure).  They apparently didn't have a bench, wouldn't be able to coexist with 3 all stars, especially 3 all stars who have never won anything, couldn't play defense, didn't have a point guard, etc.

Here's ESPN.com's preseason predictions for the Celtics.  Marc Stein was the ONLY one to pick the Celtics to finish 1st in the East.  There were a couple people that didn't even pick them to win the Atlantic, or even get home court in the 1st round.  Not to mention the fact that Vegas had the o/u on wins during the regular season at 49.  But you're right.  66 wins (the 3rd most in franchise history) was a given going in, and any coach would've done the same.  

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-BostonPreview0708

[angryguy77]

I wouldn't give too much credit for him getting the guys to be unselfish. They knew they were going to have to be that way for them to have a shot at winning. If this team had less talent then I think we would be singing his praises tight now. But the fact is he has been given a great team and they have not played up to their potential. This I believe is why you have so many people that dislike him as a coach. But if we make it to the finals and we see him do a great job and win because of him and not in spite, then I think that many of us will back off. I would be one of them.

[angryguy77]

Interesting quote from the Herald today:

But then, in so many words, the good Doc did tell his critics to kiss off.

“I like what we’ve done,” he said. “I coach the way I coach. I’ve always laughed at some of the criticism. I was joking with someone the other day, and I said, ‘Answer me this. Why would someone listen to a guy that hasn’t played, he hasn’t coached . . . some of the guys have never even been reporters, they’re bloggers, and not listen to a guy and his whole staff who have played and coached? Now who’s the fool? Me, or the people listening to them?’ ”


Doc really calling out his critics.  Ya know what?...good for him.  We've mostly all criticized him at some point.  He is a professional doing his job, and quite frankly, has his team one win away from the NBA Finals.  He knows he must be doing something right.

Good ol' Doc.  He can't coach, but he's good for a laugh.  I assume he's never given his wife advice or criticism on anything pertaining to women, women's relationships, etc...

Yeah, he can't coach.  He took 3 future HoF'ers, one extremely volatile one, to the ECF and probably the finals in his first year, garnering the NBA's best record along the way.  Terrible coach if you ask me.

Wow, he can coach 3 Hall of Famers in a staggeringly weak conference?  That's amazing and, doubtless, nobody's ever won a lot of games with 3 Hall of Famers in their lineup before.  Hey, how'd he do last season?

Oh yeah, I'm sure it was just a given that the Celtics would be on the brink of the Finals going into the season.  Please.  The majority of people laughed at the notion of the Celtics being a contender a year after being the "laughing stock" of the league, even many on this blog (but not you I'm sure).  They apparently didn't have a bench, wouldn't be able to coexist with 3 all stars, especially 3 all stars who have never won anything, couldn't play defense, didn't have a point guard, etc.

Here's ESPN.com's preseason predictions for the Celtics.  Marc Stein was the ONLY one to pick the Celtics to finish 1st in the East.  There were a couple people that didn't even pick them to win the Atlantic, or even get home court in the 1st round.  Not to mention the fact that Vegas had the o/u on wins during the regular season at 49.  But you're right.  66 wins (the 3rd most in franchise history) was a given going in, and any coach would've done the same.  

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-BostonPreview0708

When I heard that they picked up KG and Allen, I expected nothing less than a finals win.

[CelticBalla32]

That's OK Doc, we don't like you much either.

[Scintan]

Interesting quote from the Herald today:

But then, in so many words, the good Doc did tell his critics to kiss off.

“I like what we’ve done,” he said. “I coach the way I coach. I’ve always laughed at some of the criticism. I was joking with someone the other day, and I said, ‘Answer me this. Why would someone listen to a guy that hasn’t played, he hasn’t coached . . . some of the guys have never even been reporters, they’re bloggers, and not listen to a guy and his whole staff who have played and coached? Now who’s the fool? Me, or the people listening to them?’ ”


Doc really calling out his critics.  Ya know what?...good for him.  We've mostly all criticized him at some point.  He is a professional doing his job, and quite frankly, has his team one win away from the NBA Finals.  He knows he must be doing something right.

Good ol' Doc.  He can't coach, but he's good for a laugh.  I assume he's never given his wife advice or criticism on anything pertaining to women, women's relationships, etc...

Yeah, he can't coach.  He took 3 future HoF'ers, one extremely volatile one, to the ECF and probably the finals in his first year, garnering the NBA's best record along the way.  Terrible coach if you ask me.

Wow, he can coach 3 Hall of Famers in a staggeringly weak conference?  That's amazing and, doubtless, nobody's ever won a lot of games with 3 Hall of Famers in their lineup before.  Hey, how'd he do last season?

Oh yeah, I'm sure it was just a given that the Celtics would be on the brink of the Finals going into the season.  Please.  The majority of people laughed at the notion of the Celtics being a contender a year after being the "laughing stock" of the league, even many on this blog (but not you I'm sure).  They apparently didn't have a bench, wouldn't be able to coexist with 3 all stars, especially 3 all stars who have never won anything, couldn't play defense, didn't have a point guard, etc.

Here's ESPN.com's preseason predictions for the Celtics.  Marc Stein was the ONLY one to pick the Celtics to finish 1st in the East.  There were a couple people that didn't even pick them to win the Atlantic, or even get home court in the 1st round.  Not to mention the fact that Vegas had the o/u on wins during the regular season at 49.  But you're right.  66 wins (the 3rd most in franchise history) was a given going in, and any coach would've done the same.   

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-BostonPreview0708

Actually, I don't believe that I made any predictions about the team this year, because personal situations kept me from posting much here over the past many months.  However, in the summer, I did note that I thought 55 wins would be a successful season, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Does the team winning games = coaching acumen?  Is that your argument?

If so, again....  How'd he do last year?

[BrickJames]

I wouldn't give too much credit for him getting the guys to be unselfish. They knew they were going to have to be that way for them to have a shot at winning. If this team had less talent then I think we would be singing his praises tight now. But the fact is he has been given a great team and they have not played up to their potential. This I believe is why you have so many people that dislike him as a coach. But if we make it to the finals and we see him do a great job and win because of him and not in spite, then I think that many of us will back off. I would be one of them.

Having read this blog for a long time, people have been hating on Doc long before this season, without good reason either.  So I don't lend much credence to your theory.

I do give Doc a lot of credit for getting his guys to play as a team - that is exactly what a coach is measured by.  Wins and team basketball.

Looks like a couple of people (*cough*Scintan*cough*) are taking the "fool" comment a bit too much to heart.

To the guy that compared last year's squad to DUNCAN(!?!?), Igoudala, Parker and Miller - thanks for the laugh.  Al ShareefAbdurRahim Jefferson is Tim Duncan, right.

[Kuberski33]

If you're a fan paying money to see the product or in any contribute to the NBA's well being, and the coach affects the quality of the product, you have every right to criticize.  Whether the criticism is valid or not is certainly open to debate but I do have a problem with the 'I played, you didn't' stance that you sometimes hear.

To me, that stance is just arrogant.  Fans either directly or indirectly are responsible for the incredible salaries these guys make, so voicing disapproval or making an argument about something they disagree with is well within their rights.

And if a blogger has an audience, it's probably because he can intelligently discuss the product -- because if he wrote crap, fans wouldn't pay attention.  Some sports writers are clueless yet their opinion counts 'more' because they work for a paper with management too clueless to realize they suck? 

Don't think so.

[Mr October]

My prediction for a successful season before the season started was for the C's to get between 52-55 wins, and then lose in the eastern conference finals 2-4. The team has exceded my expectations. Doc is an important part of that success.

I think Doc makes a great point. How many bloggers here have been up close to see things in person? How many of us have seen Doc run a practice? By the way, Doc isn't the one throwing hook passes and shooting quick 3's in the 4th quarter, squandering big leads in the 4th quarter. So many of us (on the so called pros) make judgements based on what we see (and read) from our couch, desk, and seat in the 30th+ row.

Doc isn't perfect. Far from it. But he is better for this team than most of the available candidates. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Doc is mostly responding to the quick judgement calls coming from the flip-flopping writers at ESPN!

[nickagneta]

It seems silly for me to criticize a lawyer's wisdom and knowledge of the law when I have little to no knowledge of it. I have that right and what I say might be quite comical for a lawyer to hear because they know what they are talking about and I don't. So why should that lawyer take advice from me or be concerned about what I have to say.

The same holds true for a surgeon, an in depth computer software architect, a nuclear physicist, a CPA, or for that matter a mason or an electronics expert.

On the other hand, there are going to be times when that lawyer, surgeon, software architect, physicist (maybe not), CPA, mason, eletctronics expert, or whoever else is clearly wrong, and you can criticize.  Especially if the lawyer loses case after case, and the judge keeps throwing out the same types of evidence for the same reasons.

I understand that Roy, but for cases that you discussed, if those people are wrong a lot, they won't be in those fields of endeavor very long. And as I said it seems silly to question their knowledge and expertise in those matters, not necessarily the end results they create or attain.

And even still, we have every right to criticize, we just shouldn't think those that we are criticizing take what we have to say seriously because the do in fact know tons more about the subject than we do.

[CelticsWhat35]

Interesting quote from the Herald today:

But then, in so many words, the good Doc did tell his critics to kiss off.

“I like what we’ve done,” he said. “I coach the way I coach. I’ve always laughed at some of the criticism. I was joking with someone the other day, and I said, ‘Answer me this. Why would someone listen to a guy that hasn’t played, he hasn’t coached . . . some of the guys have never even been reporters, they’re bloggers, and not listen to a guy and his whole staff who have played and coached? Now who’s the fool? Me, or the people listening to them?’ ”


Doc really calling out his critics.  Ya know what?...good for him.  We've mostly all criticized him at some point.  He is a professional doing his job, and quite frankly, has his team one win away from the NBA Finals.  He knows he must be doing something right.

Good ol' Doc.  He can't coach, but he's good for a laugh.  I assume he's never given his wife advice or criticism on anything pertaining to women, women's relationships, etc...

Yeah, he can't coach.  He took 3 future HoF'ers, one extremely volatile one, to the ECF and probably the finals in his first year, garnering the NBA's best record along the way.  Terrible coach if you ask me.

Wow, he can coach 3 Hall of Famers in a staggeringly weak conference?  That's amazing and, doubtless, nobody's ever won a lot of games with 3 Hall of Famers in their lineup before.  Hey, how'd he do last season?

Oh yeah, I'm sure it was just a given that the Celtics would be on the brink of the Finals going into the season.  Please.  The majority of people laughed at the notion of the Celtics being a contender a year after being the "laughing stock" of the league, even many on this blog (but not you I'm sure).  They apparently didn't have a bench, wouldn't be able to coexist with 3 all stars, especially 3 all stars who have never won anything, couldn't play defense, didn't have a point guard, etc.

Here's ESPN.com's preseason predictions for the Celtics.  Marc Stein was the ONLY one to pick the Celtics to finish 1st in the East.  There were a couple people that didn't even pick them to win the Atlantic, or even get home court in the 1st round.  Not to mention the fact that Vegas had the o/u on wins during the regular season at 49.  But you're right.  66 wins (the 3rd most in franchise history) was a given going in, and any coach would've done the same.   

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-BostonPreview0708

Actually, I don't believe that I made any predictions about the team this year, because personal situations kept me from posting much here over the past many months.  However, in the summer, I did note that I thought 55 wins would be a successful season, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Does the team winning games = coaching acumen?  Is that your argument?

If so, again....  How'd he do last year?

I never said wins and losses where the sole measuring stick of a coach.  You implied that the Celtics success this year was pretty much a foregone conclusion and that any moron could've coached the team this far.  And the fact that you are harping on last season when the Celtics are one win away from the NBA Finals shows exactly where your head is at.  But you're right, I'm sure if they didn't have Doc as a coach, the 06-07 Celtics would've made some real noise.  Nevermind the injuries.  That didn't mean anything.

[Scintan]

I wouldn't give too much credit for him getting the guys to be unselfish. They knew they were going to have to be that way for them to have a shot at winning. If this team had less talent then I think we would be singing his praises tight now. But the fact is he has been given a great team and they have not played up to their potential. This I believe is why you have so many people that dislike him as a coach. But if we make it to the finals and we see him do a great job and win because of him and not in spite, then I think that many of us will back off. I would be one of them.

Having read this blog for a long time, people have been hating on Doc long before this season, without good reason either.  So I don't lend much credence to your theory.

I do give Doc a lot of credit for getting his guys to play as a team - that is exactly what a coach is measured by.  Wins and team basketball.

Looks like a couple of people (*cough*Scintan*cough*) are taking the "fool" comment a bit too much to heart.

To the guy that compared last year's squad to DUNCAN(!?!?), Igoudala, Parker and Miller - thanks for the laugh.  Al ShareefAbdurRahim Jefferson is Tim Duncan, right.

The 'fool' comment means nothing to me.  This isn't the first time a coach/player/GM/Owner has said something this stupid on this same topic, and it won't be the last.  It's still moronic, and it's still worth a laugh.

I do get a kick out of people defending Rivers by pointing to the team's record or where they are in the playoffs.  Were these same people leading the "Doc's gotta go" parade last year, when the team was abysmal?  Whether or not he can coach is not reliant on the team's win/loss record.  There are other factors as well.

[Chief]

I actually think Doc is a better coach than all the coaches the Celtics have seen in the Eastern conference playoffs. Having said that, he is not even in the same hemisphere as Phil Jackson.

[fairweatherfan]

Oh yeah, I'm sure it was just a given that the Celtics would be on the brink of the Finals going into the season.  Please.  The majority of people laughed at the notion of the Celtics being a contender a year after being the "laughing stock" of the league, even many on this blog (but not you I'm sure).  They apparently didn't have a bench, wouldn't be able to coexist with 3 all stars, especially 3 all stars who have never won anything, couldn't play defense, didn't have a point guard, etc.

Here's ESPN.com's preseason predictions for the Celtics.  Marc Stein was the ONLY one to pick the Celtics to finish 1st in the East.  There were a couple people that didn't even pick them to win the Atlantic, or even get home court in the 1st round.  Not to mention the fact that Vegas had the o/u on wins during the regular season at 49.  But you're right.  66 wins (the 3rd most in franchise history) was a given going in, and any coach would've done the same.   

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-BostonPreview0708

Love that preview, to see how wrong some people were - here's Ric Bucher:

ATLANTIC: 2 | EAST: 5  The Kool-aid remains untouched in this corner. Playoff team, yes. Title contender? Everybody has evidently forgotten how much depth and transition D divide the haves and have-nots in the postseason. They're about to be reminded.

Love it!  And yeah, Doc is right to ignore bloggers and the like, because they generally don't have much basketball experience, and equally importantly, they love to criticize.  Look at this blog - how much longer are game threads for losses than wins?  How many negative threads pop up during or immediately after losses and even WINS?  I've seen people publicly proclaim the season to be over and all hope to be lost on this blog during or after:

-Atlanta Game 6
-Cleveland Game 5
-Cleveland Game 6
-Detroit Game 2
-Detroit Game 4

There's probably more, those were just the ones I've noticed.  And the Doc thing often approaches sheer irrationality - there are people on this blog who still insist he's not a mediocre coach, not a bad coach, but a completely awful and incompetent coach even after 66 wins and one game away from the franchise's first Finals in 21 years.  Any acknowledgment of this by those folks is extremely grudging, with a "but" attached and usually with 95% of the credit given to the players.  Someone said a few weeks ago that we could win a championship this year and some people will still gripe about the coach, and it's absolutely true.  I wouldn't put much stock in the words of folks like that if I was in Doc's place either.