Could Horford end up being the worst contract of offseason?

[Surferdad]

Too bad Tony Parker retired.  He could have been a stabilizing force and solid vet backup to Rozier.

[Moranis]

Devonte Graham significantly outplays Rozier in the first game of the season and ends up being in the closing lineup (a game the Hornets won by 1).  It is just 1 game, but that doesn't bode well for Rozier.

[footey]

Devonte Graham significantly outplays Rozier in the first game of the season and ends up being in the closing lineup (a game the Hornets won by 1).  It is just 1 game, but that doesn't bode well for Rozier.

The checks will still clear, so I’m not worried about him lol.

[celticsclay]

Devonte Graham significantly outplays Rozier in the first game of the season and ends up being in the closing lineup (a game the Hornets won by 1).  It is just 1 game, but that doesn't bode well for Rozier.

I don't think anyone debating this thought that the problem with horford was going to be this year of his contract. Any team would have been thrilled to have him for one year at 30 million or so given the contracts given out reddick, kcp etc the last few years. The problem is next year and the year after that. All that being said, Horford had 16 points on 38% shooting with two rebounds and three assists and had the lowest plus minus of the starters. I think the 76ers would hope for more than that in the first year of his contract. It is very possible rozier is one of the worst contracts in the history of the nba (though byombo and and mosgov would be hard to beat). All that being said, I think the main Spirit of the thread is understanding how bad a contract horford signed, not whether there is a single player Signed by Charlotte that may be marginally worse contract this offseason.

[tazzmaniac]

Devonte Graham significantly outplays Rozier in the first game of the season and ends up being in the closing lineup (a game the Hornets won by 1).  It is just 1 game, but that doesn't bode well for Rozier.

I don't think anyone debating this thought that the problem with horford was going to be this year of his contract. Any team would have been thrilled to have him for one year at 30 million or so given the contracts given out reddick, kcp etc the last few years. The problem is next year and the year after that. All that being said, Horford had 16 points on 38% shooting with two rebounds and three assists and had the lowest plus minus of the starters. I think the 76ers would hope for more than that in the first year of his contract. It is very possible rozier is one of the worst contracts in the history of the nba (though byombo and and mosgov would be hard to beat). All that being said, I think the main Spirit of the thread is understanding how bad a contract horford signed, not whether there is a single player Signed by Charlotte that may be marginally worse contract this offseason.

Hot takes after one game are rather silly and this fits the bill.  Horford has only averaged more than 16 pts twice in his career with us his high was 14.0.  3 assists is just below his career average.  Horford has never been a top rebounder.  Embiid is top 3 in the league.  Harris won't be getting 15 rebs each game.  In a night, the Sixers won the boards 62-41 talking about Horford's rebs is definitely silly.   Yes Horford shot poorly but that's certainly going to improve and he had 6 3pt attempts and 6 FTAs which I expect they are happy with.   

You act like they brought Horford in to be a star.  They didn't.  Horford is their 4th best player.   He hasn't put up big numbers ever and he won't with the Sixers but they don't need him to.  They overpaid to get one of the league's best role players just like they previously overpaid to get one of the leagues best shooters in Redick.  Horford can start at PF next to Embiid, start at C when Embiid is out and be their backup C in the playoffs.  Their defense should be top of the league unlike last season when they were mid-pack. 

In a game where Embiid only played 23 minutes and didn't play great the Sixers beat probably the 3rd best team in the East by 14.  That's not happening in previous seasons.  If the Sixers can hold their own when Embiid is off the court, they are going to be very difficult to beat. 

[Celtics4ever]

I think both the Celtics and Philly are trying to figure it out still.   There is only one ball and Al is not high on their priority chart.   How much was his heart in it, the first game against his old team?

[Moranis]

Devonte Graham significantly outplays Rozier in the first game of the season and ends up being in the closing lineup (a game the Hornets won by 1).  It is just 1 game, but that doesn't bode well for Rozier.

I don't think anyone debating this thought that the problem with horford was going to be this year of his contract. Any team would have been thrilled to have him for one year at 30 million or so given the contracts given out reddick, kcp etc the last few years. The problem is next year and the year after that. All that being said, Horford had 16 points on 38% shooting with two rebounds and three assists and had the lowest plus minus of the starters. I think the 76ers would hope for more than that in the first year of his contract. It is very possible rozier is one of the worst contracts in the history of the nba (though byombo and and mosgov would be hard to beat). All that being said, I think the main Spirit of the thread is understanding how bad a contract horford signed, not whether there is a single player Signed by Charlotte that may be marginally worse contract this offseason.

The question posed is literally "could Horford end up being the worst contract of offseason?"  That is what the thread is stated to be about.  So yes, the fact that Rozier couldn't even finish game 1 of his 3 year large contract absolutely matters in determining whether Horford was the worst contract of the off season.  I again present Terry Rozier as a worse contract.

[celticsclay]

Devonte Graham significantly outplays Rozier in the first game of the season and ends up being in the closing lineup (a game the Hornets won by 1).  It is just 1 game, but that doesn't bode well for Rozier.

I don't think anyone debating this thought that the problem with horford was going to be this year of his contract. Any team would have been thrilled to have him for one year at 30 million or so given the contracts given out reddick, kcp etc the last few years. The problem is next year and the year after that. All that being said, Horford had 16 points on 38% shooting with two rebounds and three assists and had the lowest plus minus of the starters. I think the 76ers would hope for more than that in the first year of his contract. It is very possible rozier is one of the worst contracts in the history of the nba (though byombo and and mosgov would be hard to beat). All that being said, I think the main Spirit of the thread is understanding how bad a contract horford signed, not whether there is a single player Signed by Charlotte that may be marginally worse contract this offseason.

The question posed is literally "could Horford end up being the worst contract of offseason?"  That is what the thread is stated to be about.  So yes, the fact that Rozier couldn't even finish game 1 of his 3 year large contract absolutely matters in determining whether Horford was the worst contract of the off season.  I again present Terry Rozier as a worse contract.

This seems a bit petty no? You really are advocating I change the thread to “is horford the second worst contract of offseason?” I can do that if you want.

[celticsclay]

Devonte Graham significantly outplays Rozier in the first game of the season and ends up being in the closing lineup (a game the Hornets won by 1).  It is just 1 game, but that doesn't bode well for Rozier.

I don't think anyone debating this thought that the problem with horford was going to be this year of his contract. Any team would have been thrilled to have him for one year at 30 million or so given the contracts given out reddick, kcp etc the last few years. The problem is next year and the year after that. All that being said, Horford had 16 points on 38% shooting with two rebounds and three assists and had the lowest plus minus of the starters. I think the 76ers would hope for more than that in the first year of his contract. It is very possible rozier is one of the worst contracts in the history of the nba (though byombo and and mosgov would be hard to beat). All that being said, I think the main Spirit of the thread is understanding how bad a contract horford signed, not whether there is a single player Signed by Charlotte that may be marginally worse contract this offseason.

Hot takes after one game are rather silly and this fits the bill.  Horford has only averaged more than 16 pts twice in his career with us his high was 14.0.  3 assists is just below his career average.  Horford has never been a top rebounder.  Embiid is top 3 in the league.  Harris won't be getting 15 rebs each game.  In a night, the Sixers won the boards 62-41 talking about Horford's rebs is definitely silly.   Yes Horford shot poorly but that's certainly going to improve and he had 6 3pt attempts and 6 FTAs which I expect they are happy with.   

You act like they brought Horford in to be a star.  They didn't.  Horford is their 4th best player.   He hasn't put up big numbers ever and he won't with the Sixers but they don't need him to.  They overpaid to get one of the league's best role players just like they previously overpaid to get one of the leagues best shooters in Redick.  Horford can start at PF next to Embiid, start at C when Embiid is out and be their backup C in the playoffs.  Their defense should be top of the league unlike last season when they were mid-pack. 

In a game where Embiid only played 23 minutes and didn't play great the Sixers beat probably the 3rd best team in the East by 14.  That's not happening in previous seasons.  If the Sixers can hold their own when Embiid is off the court, they are going to be very difficult to beat.

Hey man, just to be clear I was responding to someone else that bumped the thread and I also pointed out the whole premise of the thread was not about the first year and it would be a very good deal for this year. Did you just gloss over all that?

[Moranis]

Devonte Graham significantly outplays Rozier in the first game of the season and ends up being in the closing lineup (a game the Hornets won by 1).  It is just 1 game, but that doesn't bode well for Rozier.

I don't think anyone debating this thought that the problem with horford was going to be this year of his contract. Any team would have been thrilled to have him for one year at 30 million or so given the contracts given out reddick, kcp etc the last few years. The problem is next year and the year after that. All that being said, Horford had 16 points on 38% shooting with two rebounds and three assists and had the lowest plus minus of the starters. I think the 76ers would hope for more than that in the first year of his contract. It is very possible rozier is one of the worst contracts in the history of the nba (though byombo and and mosgov would be hard to beat). All that being said, I think the main Spirit of the thread is understanding how bad a contract horford signed, not whether there is a single player Signed by Charlotte that may be marginally worse contract this offseason.

The question posed is literally "could Horford end up being the worst contract of offseason?"  That is what the thread is stated to be about.  So yes, the fact that Rozier couldn't even finish game 1 of his 3 year large contract absolutely matters in determining whether Horford was the worst contract of the off season.  I again present Terry Rozier as a worse contract.

This seems a bit petty no? You really are advocating I change the thread to “is horford the second worst contract of offseason?” I can do that if you want.

not at all, I just found your response to be strange given the context of the thread is about the worst contract of the off-season and Rozier is setting a pretty hard bar for anyone to beat.

[celticsclay]

Devonte Graham significantly outplays Rozier in the first game of the season and ends up being in the closing lineup (a game the Hornets won by 1).  It is just 1 game, but that doesn't bode well for Rozier.

I don't think anyone debating this thought that the problem with horford was going to be this year of his contract. Any team would have been thrilled to have him for one year at 30 million or so given the contracts given out reddick, kcp etc the last few years. The problem is next year and the year after that. All that being said, Horford had 16 points on 38% shooting with two rebounds and three assists and had the lowest plus minus of the starters. I think the 76ers would hope for more than that in the first year of his contract. It is very possible rozier is one of the worst contracts in the history of the nba (though byombo and and mosgov would be hard to beat). All that being said, I think the main Spirit of the thread is understanding how bad a contract horford signed, not whether there is a single player Signed by Charlotte that may be marginally worse contract this offseason.

The question posed is literally "could Horford end up being the worst contract of offseason?"  That is what the thread is stated to be about.  So yes, the fact that Rozier couldn't even finish game 1 of his 3 year large contract absolutely matters in determining whether Horford was the worst contract of the off season.  I again present Terry Rozier as a worse contract.

This seems a bit petty no? You really are advocating I change the thread to “is horford the second worst contract of offseason?” I can do that if you want.

not at all, I just found your response to be strange given the context of the thread is about the worst contract of the off-season and Rozier is setting a pretty hard bar for anyone to beat.

1) Premise 1, asking question is Horford worst contract of offseason?
2) Premise 2: It is bad because of the length of it and getting paid 28 million dollars in his age 34 and age 35 season with 14 million guaranteed for when he is 36
3) You, as a moderator, bump a thread nobody has posted in for two months because Rozier (also battling a bad knee) has a bad first game.

This doesn't seem particularly constructive to me and it if Rozier has a bad game to start his career and contract with the hornets, it really has no significant bearing on a 4 year contract that Horford has signed in his mid 30's. We will need to be at least into next year before you can even make a significant judgement on this (barring one of them having a career ending injury or something)

[tonydelk]

Devonte Graham significantly outplays Rozier in the first game of the season and ends up being in the closing lineup (a game the Hornets won by 1).  It is just 1 game, but that doesn't bode well for Rozier.

I don't think anyone debating this thought that the problem with horford was going to be this year of his contract. Any team would have been thrilled to have him for one year at 30 million or so given the contracts given out reddick, kcp etc the last few years. The problem is next year and the year after that. All that being said, Horford had 16 points on 38% shooting with two rebounds and three assists and had the lowest plus minus of the starters. I think the 76ers would hope for more than that in the first year of his contract. It is very possible rozier is one of the worst contracts in the history of the nba (though byombo and and mosgov would be hard to beat). All that being said, I think the main Spirit of the thread is understanding how bad a contract horford signed, not whether there is a single player Signed by Charlotte that may be marginally worse contract this offseason.

The question posed is literally "could Horford end up being the worst contract of offseason?"  That is what the thread is stated to be about.  So yes, the fact that Rozier couldn't even finish game 1 of his 3 year large contract absolutely matters in determining whether Horford was the worst contract of the off season.  I again present Terry Rozier as a worse contract.

This seems a bit petty no? You really are advocating I change the thread to “is horford the second worst contract of offseason?” I can do that if you want.

not at all, I just found your response to be strange given the context of the thread is about the worst contract of the off-season and Rozier is setting a pretty hard bar for anyone to beat.

1) Premise 1, asking question is Horford worst contract of offseason?
2) Premise 2: It is bad because of the length of it and getting paid 28 million dollars in his age 34 and age 35 season with 14 million guaranteed for when he is 36
3) You, as a moderator, bump a thread nobody has posted in for two months because Rozier (also battling a bad knee) has a bad first game.

This doesn't seem particularly constructive to me and it if Rozier has a bad game to start his career and contract with the hornets, it really has no significant bearing on a 4 year contract that Horford has signed in his mid 30's. We will need to be at least into next year before you can even make a significant judgement on this (barring one of them having a career ending injury or something)

Who cares.  Both are bad contracts and neither are Celtics.

[gpap]

Not sure if I mentioned this earlier in this thread but the Tobias Harris 5 yr/$180 mil deal is pretty bad too. Philly better hope they win a title in the next 2 years, because they're going to be in cap jail after that.

[celticsclay]

Not sure if I mentioned this earlier in this thread but the Tobias Harris 5 yr/$180 mil deal is pretty bad too. Philly better hope they win a title in the next 2 years, because they're going to be in cap jail after that.

Yea, I think that could end up being kind of painful. The reason I am a little less down on Harris (and perhaps to a lesser extent, Rozier) is that there is a chance they are just staying at the same level over the course of their contracts. Harris right now is a tiny bit below all-star quality, but really really elite role player 3rd best player on a title team. I think he will remain that over the course of his contract.

Horford has a significant chance of just being a very limited role player that is good for 20 minutes a game in the third year of this contract. Horford will be 35 then, and there really have not been very many centers that have been key players at that age. Tim Duncan was one of the are exceptions to this still being extremely effective at that age (but he obviously started at a much higher peak as an MVP). If you look at some of the players in this age range like Noah (34) Howard (34), Gasol (34) they are all all-stars that have completely fallen off a cliff at this age. Pau Gasol fell off a cliff at age 35 too.  I have seen some argue that Horford should age well cause his game does not rely on athleticism, but Noah and both the Gasols were guys that were viewed in the same way, high-iq average athleticism players. Finally, in Horford's three years in Boston he has missed 14, 10 and 14 games. It would not be surprising at all to see that number increase as he plays his age 33, 34 and 35 and 36 age seasons.

[Neurotic Guy]

Not sure if I mentioned this earlier in this thread but the Tobias Harris 5 yr/$180 mil deal is pretty bad too. Philly better hope they win a title in the next 2 years, because they're going to be in cap jail after that.

With 2 MVP candidates entering their prime.  It may turn the other way, but right now I'd trade for Philly's roster and salary situation in a second.