Kevin Garnett isn't getting any younger, and will not only need to further reduce his minutes this upcoming season but likely sit out the second game of back-to-backs. How will you adjust to this?Say hello to Carl Landry. We not only have confidence in Carl as our third big man, but we believe he is more than capable in taking over the starting PF job when Kevin rests, with Al [Horford] sliding over to the C spot. We will monitor Carl's minutes so that there isn't too much variation from a bench night to a starting night, but he should be looking at roughly 30 minutes on any given night. Gerald [Wallace], Tim [Mozgov], and Bernie [James] will also see increased minutes when Kevin takes a night off, but nothing they can't handle.
Many considered Jamal Crawford to be the true Sixth Man of the Year last year for the Clippers. How will you ensure that he gets enough minutes to be effective?Jamal will continue to see a sixth man role with Cleveland, and he will see starters minutes. Tony [Allen] has always played slightly less minutes than the average starter, so that alone would ensure Jamal plays enough, but we also plan on letting Jamal run the offense as somewhat of a PG, and Tony will get a good helping of minutes at the SF spot as well. All of this combines to mean that Jamal will get around 30 minutes a night, same as our other key bench player, Carl.
Gerald Wallace has seen a severe decline in offensive efficiency these last few years. Are you at all worried about him being a major bench player on your team?While we agree with the first statement, we aren't worried. Quite the opposite: we see Gerald as a perfect fit on our team. We are confident in the amount of scoring that Ty [Lawson], Al, Kevin, Jamal, Carl, and even Caron [Butler] will give us; we do not expect scoring from Gerald at all. Gerald will be used purely as a defensive stopper against more skilled SFs and quicker PFs in the league, such as LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Josh Smith. Gerald will start select games at SF or PF where the matchup makes sense, but even in that role we won't be expecting offense from him. Anything he can give us on that end of the floor is found money.
It seems you have the pieces to create a formidable defensive lineup with Lawson, Allen, Wallace, Horford, and Garnett. However, the floor spacing here could be quite poor. Do you agree?In short, no. But I'll go into detail. The obvious source of worry here is Tony on the floor with Gerald as the two wings, and the lack of three point shooting that combo brings. While both are certainly subpar at that aspect of the game, there are several reasons that we are not concerned. First, Kevin and Al (and Carl) are excellent long-range jump shooters for their positions, which will create some floor spacing on its own. Second, Gerald himself saw a significant improvement in three point shooting during the playoffs last season, something he could certainly continue into this season. And third, the lineup you mentioned would soon be rotated out to accommodate Jamal, Caron, Steve [Blake] or even Terrence [Ross], who can all shoot the three ball. The only time you would see that lineup playing significant minutes together is in the case that we absolutely need a stop.
Can you comment on your coaching selection, or was Lionel Hollins chosen somewhat at random?Lionel was absolutely not chosen at random. Aside from most recently coaching AB_Celtic’s second-favorite NBA team (the Grizzlies), Lionel is an excellent defensive coach; last year, he helped the Grizz become the best defensive team in the league in terms of opponent points per game (89.3). He was crucial in the development of last year’s Defensive Player of the Year, Marc Gasol. He has a rapport with defensive specialist and new CB Cavalier Tony Allen. He has playoff experience. He is humble, supportive, and has a great basketball mind. He will undoubtedly mesh with the mindset of the CB Draft Cavs.
I see Lebron having a big series.
I see Lebron having a big series.
Does Minnesota win it, though?
PF: Kevin Garnett = Serge Ibaka
QuotePF: Kevin Garnett = Serge Ibaka
Nah. KG still trumps Ibaka. As has been noted previously, Ibaka is a poor man-to-man defender. He doesn't help a defense in nearly the same way that KG does.
Statistically, KG is better offensively (I'd buy that), he's certainly a better passer, and he's dominated Ibaka head to head.
I definitely don't rate this one as even.
Serge IbakaKG is still superior to Ibaka
+ Athletic, long-armed, shot-blocking ace still learning fundamentals.
+ Overrated defender who struggles against floor-spacers. Good rebounder.
+ Very good midrange shooter. No post game and poor offensive instincts.
Analysis
There's a lot more to defense than blocking shots, people. Ibaka finished second in the Defensive Player of the Year voting based on his phenomenal shot-blocking total, but the Finals really underscored how far he has to go to be an elite defender overall. Ibaka's shot-blocking skill is second to none -- his 5.38 blocks per 40 minutes led the league comfortably (see chart) -- but he still struggles mightily against face-up 4s and in the finer elements of help defense.
Overall, then, he was merely decent defensively. The Thunder were better with him on the court but not dramatically so (2.8 points per 100 possessions), while Synergy Stats rated him in the middle of the pack. The Thunder didn't act like he was a vital defensive cog, either, often opting to keep Kendrick Perkins or Nick Collison on the court instead of him.
KG will be playing centerQuotePF: Kevin Garnett = Serge Ibaka
Nah. KG still trumps Ibaka. As has been noted previously, Ibaka is a poor man-to-man defender. He doesn't help a defense in nearly the same way that KG does.
Statistically, KG is better offensively (I'd buy that), he's certainly a better passer, and he's dominated Ibaka head to head.
I definitely don't rate this one as even.
I think KG's defense has been declining and will drop-off considerably more once he transitions back to PF. So as defenders, I think they are comparable. I would actually give Ibaka the edge at PF (but KG at C).
I give KG a small edge on offense due to his passing ability (Ibaka limited passer, KG a great passer). However, as scorers + jump-shooters, I think they are even. And, I don't think KG can score in the post consistently against Ibaka which is KG's only possible shot-creation advantage over a player like Ibaka.
As possession creators, I think Ibaka forces far more turnovers and can rebound outside his area which KG can no longer do (increasingly important when rebounding as a PF vs C when you have to cover more ground to rebounds). Advantage Ibaka.
With Horford at forward? Guarding Ibaka when Minny is big and guarding Battier at the three point line when Minny go small?KG will be playing centerQuotePF: Kevin Garnett = Serge Ibaka
Nah. KG still trumps Ibaka. As has been noted previously, Ibaka is a poor man-to-man defender. He doesn't help a defense in nearly the same way that KG does.
Statistically, KG is better offensively (I'd buy that), he's certainly a better passer, and he's dominated Ibaka head to head.
I definitely don't rate this one as even.
I think KG's defense has been declining and will drop-off considerably more once he transitions back to PF. So as defenders, I think they are comparable. I would actually give Ibaka the edge at PF (but KG at C).
I give KG a small edge on offense due to his passing ability (Ibaka limited passer, KG a great passer). However, as scorers + jump-shooters, I think they are even. And, I don't think KG can score in the post consistently against Ibaka which is KG's only possible shot-creation advantage over a player like Ibaka.
As possession creators, I think Ibaka forces far more turnovers and can rebound outside his area which KG can no longer do (increasingly important when rebounding as a PF vs C when you have to cover more ground to rebounds). Advantage Ibaka.
advantage KG
I'm just going by the depth chartWith Horford at forward? Guarding Ibaka when Minny is big and guarding Battier at the three point line when Minny go small?KG will be playing centerQuotePF: Kevin Garnett = Serge Ibaka
Nah. KG still trumps Ibaka. As has been noted previously, Ibaka is a poor man-to-man defender. He doesn't help a defense in nearly the same way that KG does.
Statistically, KG is better offensively (I'd buy that), he's certainly a better passer, and he's dominated Ibaka head to head.
I definitely don't rate this one as even.
I think KG's defense has been declining and will drop-off considerably more once he transitions back to PF. So as defenders, I think they are comparable. I would actually give Ibaka the edge at PF (but KG at C).
I give KG a small edge on offense due to his passing ability (Ibaka limited passer, KG a great passer). However, as scorers + jump-shooters, I think they are even. And, I don't think KG can score in the post consistently against Ibaka which is KG's only possible shot-creation advantage over a player like Ibaka.
As possession creators, I think Ibaka forces far more turnovers and can rebound outside his area which KG can no longer do (increasingly important when rebounding as a PF vs C when you have to cover more ground to rebounds). Advantage Ibaka.
advantage KG
Okay.
My initial reaction is to lean toward Cleveland. I think they've got the personnel and the defensive philosophy to limit Lebron. If Lebron isn't scoring 35+ per night, I don't think that Minnesota can win this series.
I've made my opinion of Gerald Wallace The Celtic widely known. Gerald Wallace The Defender, though, is a completely different player. Since you don't have to worry about his contract in this game, Wallace is a very valuable piece.
I think that Gerald Wallace has the potential to replicate what Shawn Marion did to Lebron in the 2011 Finals. He only averaged around 13 points per game, but he was arguably the MVP of that series, because he hassled Lebron at every turn. I can see that here. In fact, I do see that here.
I wonder if the Cavs have enough length at the rim to bother LeBron when he gets into the paint.Which is a problem for me because KG is going to continue to decline.
KG certainly does. He has fantastic size and length. However, Horford is only 6-9 with an 8-11 standing reach. Carl Landry is only 6-7/6-8 with a 8-6 standing reach. LeBron has had a lot of success against the Hawks in the past and I don't see Landry causing him any issues.
Outside of KG, I don't Cleveland's shot-blockers are going to cause LeBron many problems.
I wonder if the Cavs have enough length at the rim to bother LeBron when he gets into the paint.Which is a problem for me because KG is going to continue to decline.
KG certainly does. He has fantastic size and length. However, Horford is only 6-9 with an 8-11 standing reach. Carl Landry is only 6-7/6-8 with a 8-6 standing reach. LeBron has had a lot of success against the Hawks in the past and I don't see Landry causing him any issues.
Outside of KG, I don't Cleveland's shot-blockers are going to cause LeBron many problems.
Cleveland needs him on the court an awful lot to contain LeBron. I also think that because their best two defenders are Allen/Wallace that they are going to struggle to score. Especially if they use Tony on Ellis when he's not on LeBron as Who suggests.
This seems like an uphill battle for the Cavs, in my mind. Horford will probable get his 20 pts, KG his typical 15 or so and Lawson in the high teens. Even if Crawford can average near 20 pts (unlikely), that still leaves an awful lot of pts to be made up, with not a lot of good offensive options remaining.
Cleveland's best hope seems to be to keep this series low scoring, maybe in the mid 80's. I'm not sure they can do that consistently over the course of the entire series.
Defense:
- LeBron James will always be defended by one of Tony Allen or Gerald Wallace. Both are skilled enough and tough enough to slow him down
- The much-less-efficient Monta Ellis will be defended by Caron Butler or Jamal Crawford (or Tony Allen if Wallace is on the floor). We want Monta taking more shots than LeBron
- We may also go with a starting lineup of Lawson-Butler-Wallace-Horford-Garnett. This will keep defensive pressure on LeBron, keep 3pt shooting in the starting lineup, and further bait Monta to chuck. Hollins will make the call on that
- Serge Ibaka will be defended by the Al Horford. Ibaka can spread the floor, but the quick-footed Horford can keep up with him
- DeAndre Jordan will be defended by Kevin Garnett. Jordan, while athletic, cannot do much else on offense other than dunk. With Garnett on him, those dunks won't come easily
- Avery Bradley will be defended by Ty Lawson. Ty is more than quick enough to keep up with Bradley, and that's really all you have to do to stop him offensively: stay with him on his cuts and contest his jumpers
Offense:
- Whenever Serge Ibaka is on the floor, Kevin Garnett and Al Horford will be as well. Ibaka will have to guard one of them, and whomever he is guarding will be told to pull him out towards the 3pt line (both are good long-range jump shooters), opening up the basket for Lawson, Crawford, and the other big man
- If LeBron is put on Lawson, then either 6'2" Avery Bradley or 6'3" Monta Ellis is guarding 6'7" (and much stronger) Gerald Wallace, who will post up like crazy
- If Bradley is put on Lawson, well, as much as I hate to be hypocritical, I'll just leave this here: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=lawsoty01&p2=bradlav01
- Horford or Garnett should both be able to score on DeAndre Jordan with ease. While Jordan is strong and a good shot-blocker, his team defense is quite poor
Bottom line:
LeBron James is the best player in the world. I don't deny it and I don't think anyone else does. But this LeBron team does not have enough firepower at the other positions to win a title. It is closer to his Cleveland teams than to his Miami teams (through no fault of McHP). My Cleveland squad was constructed for the playoffs and for clutch situations. They will pull out this series win and give KG his second title.
KG at full strength is superior to Ibaka. Play this season out 10 times, though, and Garnett is limping through the playoffs in at least six of them while Ibaka is at full strength. We've already seen it happen and Garnett is even older now.
The only thing that can stop Minnesota from taking this in five games is Monta Ellis trying to get his.
The only thing that can stop Minnesota from taking this in five games is Monta Ellis trying to get his.
Doesn't Monta Ellis always try to "get his"?
The only thing that can stop Minnesota from taking this in five games is Monta Ellis trying to get his.
Doesn't Monta Ellis always try to "get his"?
He does, and we're gonna let him. If Monta takes more shots than LeBron, our defense has done its job.
It's true Roy: Monta is an awful playoff performer and LeBron is one of the best. We're going to divert all of our attention to LeBron and let Monta shoot the Mavs out of the game. And from those stats you posted, people can see it'll happen.
I had no idea that Monta was that bad. We all knew he was a chucker, and I've argued for years that Monta can't win a championship, but I had no idea that his track record was so God-awful.
This is the second leading scorer on Minnesota. That's got to concern you, right, MP?
I had no idea that Monta was that bad. We all knew he was a chucker, and I've argued for years that Monta can't win a championship, but I had no idea that his track record was so God-awful.
This is the second leading scorer on Minnesota. That's got to concern you, right, MP?
Second scorer. Meaning the offense doesnt run through him compare to his stints in Milwaukee and Dubs before.
It's a concern, but not that big IMO. He's not going to carry the offense this time, he's just going to provide some more punch.
I had no idea that Monta was that bad. We all knew he was a chucker, and I've argued for years that Monta can't win a championship, but I had no idea that his track record was so God-awful.
This is the second leading scorer on Minnesota. That's got to concern you, right, MP?
Second scorer. Meaning the offense doesnt run through him compare to his stints in Milwaukee and Dubs before.
It's a concern, but not that big IMO. He's not going to carry the offense this time, he's just going to provide some more punch.
If we keep LeBron smothered, which we intend to, who's gonna be left open for the clutch shot? Monta.
I had no idea that Monta was that bad. We all knew he was a chucker, and I've argued for years that Monta can't win a championship, but I had no idea that his track record was so God-awful.
This is the second leading scorer on Minnesota. That's got to concern you, right, MP?
Second scorer. Meaning the offense doesnt run through him compare to his stints in Milwaukee and Dubs before.
It's a concern, but not that big IMO. He's not going to carry the offense this time, he's just going to provide some more punch.
I wouldnt bet on that. Monta maybe inefficient as a 1 dollar pack of batteries, but that man is clutch.
I wouldnt bet on that. Monta maybe inefficient as a 1 dollar pack of batteries, but that man is clutch.
Based upon what? He certainly hasn't been clutch in his playoff career, especially when he was bricking over 60% of his freebies.
I had no idea that Monta was that bad. We all knew he was a chucker, and I've argued for years that Monta can't win a championship, but I had no idea that his track record was so God-awful.
This is the second leading scorer on Minnesota. That's got to concern you, right, MP?
Second scorer. Meaning the offense doesnt run through him compare to his stints in Milwaukee and Dubs before.
It's a concern, but not that big IMO. He's not going to carry the offense this time, he's just going to provide some more punch.
A second scorer is important, though.
In games 1 through 3 last year, Wade averaged 14.3 points per game on 44% shooting (a number that Monta is unlikely to reach, by the way). The Heat went 1-2.
In games 4 through 7 last year, Wade averaged 23.5 points per game on 49.4% shooting. The Heat went 3-1.
Everybody knows that Michael Jordan didn't start winning titles until Scottie Pippen came around. Lebron didn't start winning until he got Wade and Bosh.
Has any team in the history of the NBA won with a #2 as bad as Monta Ellis? Arguably the 1994 Rockets, but that's about it.
This is why I posted the Wallace argument, if Gerald can go one on one with James, then Tony can make sure Monta "wont have it all". But Cleveland has to double LeBron, leaving Monta open, I think he'll do a ton of damage. Not Wade efficient, but enough to knock Cleveland out.
I wouldnt bet on that. Monta maybe inefficient as a 1 dollar pack of batteries, but that man is clutch.
Based upon what? He certainly hasn't been clutch in his playoff career, especially when he was bricking over 60% of his freebies.
This is why I posted the Wallace argument, if Gerald can go one on one with James, then Tony can make sure Monta "wont have it all". But Cleveland has to double LeBron, leaving Monta open, I think he'll do a ton of damage. Not Wade efficient, but enough to knock Cleveland out.
I never said Monta will be doubled. I said in my talking points on the previous page that Wallace will cover LeBron and Tony Allen will spend time on Monta. I think Monta will struggle mightily against Tony Allen, who will keep him out of a rhythm so that when Crawford or Butler is in (to provide offense), Monta will have trouble getting going.
It's a perfect balance of offense and defense, really.
I wouldnt bet on that. Monta maybe inefficient as a 1 dollar pack of batteries, but that man is clutch.
Based upon what? He certainly hasn't been clutch in his playoff career, especially when he was bricking over 60% of his freebies.
He only had two playoff appearances. One with GSW who he was a solid part but was still young and playing off the bench. And one with Milwaukee in which they are COMPLETELY mismatched. That's unfair to say that Ellis isn't clutch in the Playoffs, because he hasn't been in a position to be on, especially when you're getting blown out because his team is just way inferior.
But in times during the regular season with the Dubs, boy is he clutch. Game tying baskets, game winners, dagger shots. He did it. I get the hate for Monta, but I can't deny his clutchness. I saw it first hand. Now with LeBron on his side, you smother James and give him that opportunity, like I said, I wouldn't bet on it. He has enough of a regular season track record of clutchness for me.
I wouldnt bet on that. Monta maybe inefficient as a 1 dollar pack of batteries, but that man is clutch.
Based upon what? He certainly hasn't been clutch in his playoff career, especially when he was bricking over 60% of his freebies.
He only had two playoff appearances. One with GSW who he was a solid part but was still young and playing off the bench. And one with Milwaukee in which they are COMPLETELY mismatched. That's unfair to say that Ellis isn't clutch in the Playoffs, because he hasn't been in a position to be on, especially when you're getting blown out because his team is just way inferior.
But in times during the regular season with the Dubs, boy is he clutch. Game tying baskets, game winners, dagger shots. He did it. I get the hate for Monta, but I can't deny his clutchness. I saw it first hand. Now with LeBron on his side, you smother James and give him that opportunity, like I said, I wouldn't bet on it. He has enough of a regular season track record of clutchness for me.
I posted the numbers above. I think your view might be colored by perception bias. We remember the good things (i.e., game winners) a lot more than we do the bad (bricks, lots and lots of bricks.)
the thing with ellis, regardless of his previous numbers, that people aren't taking into consideration, is that he will be playing alongside with lbj. his looks and ability to slash will be beneficial and easier for him. I mean, lbj made mo Williams an all star then to a nobody.
this is a hypothetical game, so in the case of ellis, I don't care about previous numbers, bc this hypothetical circumstance make me think he will score effectively and easily.
This is why I posted the Wallace argument, if Gerald can go one on one with James, then Tony can make sure Monta "wont have it all". But Cleveland has to double LeBron, leaving Monta open, I think he'll do a ton of damage. Not Wade efficient, but enough to knock Cleveland out.
I never said Monta will be doubled. I said in my talking points on the previous page that Wallace will cover LeBron and Tony Allen will spend time on Monta. I think Monta will struggle mightily against Tony Allen, who will keep him out of a rhythm so that when Crawford or Butler is in (to provide offense), Monta will have trouble getting going.
It's a perfect balance of offense and defense, really.
However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.
Just a thought but if Minny goes small with Ibaka at the 5 and Lebron at the four abd Battier at the 3, a line I might consider for Cleveland would be going big and busting it inside with Lawson/Crawford/Landry/Hordford/KG. I would probably try such a lineup as a counter to the Minny small ball in game 1 just to see how it did and if it was successful use it some more.San Antonio went small right with Miami, they tried staying big and it was a disaster for them.
One thing real life San Antonio and Indiana showed versus Mimai's small ball line up of Chalmers/Wade/Battier/LeBron/Bosh is going big, busting the ball inside and getting very physical with them can make a huge difference. Well, Ellis is no Wade and Ibaka is now Bosh so going the same with a front court of Landry/Horford/KG might seriously effect that Minny small ball and keep such offensive liabilities as Jordan and Big Baby in the game
This is why I posted the Wallace argument, if Gerald can go one on one with James, then Tony can make sure Monta "wont have it all". But Cleveland has to double LeBron, leaving Monta open, I think he'll do a ton of damage. Not Wade efficient, but enough to knock Cleveland out.
I never said Monta will be doubled. I said in my talking points on the previous page that Wallace will cover LeBron and Tony Allen will spend time on Monta. I think Monta will struggle mightily against Tony Allen, who will keep him out of a rhythm so that when Crawford or Butler is in (to provide offense), Monta will have trouble getting going.
It's a perfect balance of offense and defense, really.
I like Cleveland's chances in this, because I'm a firm believer in the defensive gameplan for a LeBron team that you've outlined up here.
However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.
The problem I have is that I don't think Cleveland is good enough to take advantage of that.However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.
Agreed.
Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible. He's not. Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.
Monta Ellis is not a good player. He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.
Just a thought but if Minny goes small with Ibaka at the 5 and Lebron at the four abd Battier at the 3, a line I might consider for Cleveland would be going big and busting it inside with Lawson/Crawford/Landry/Hordford/KG. I would probably try such a lineup as a counter to the Minny small ball in game 1 just to see how it did and if it was successful use it some more.
One thing real life San Antonio and Indiana showed versus Mimai's small ball line up of Chalmers/Wade/Battier/LeBron/Bosh is going big, busting the ball inside and getting very physical with them can make a huge difference. Well, Ellis is no Wade and Ibaka is now Bosh so going the same with a front court of Landry/Horford/KG might seriously effect that Minny small ball and keep such offensive liabilities as Jordan and Big Baby in the game
The problem I have is that I don't think Cleveland is good enough to take advantage of that.However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.
Agreed.
Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible. He's not. Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.
Monta Ellis is not a good player. He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.
KG is their best player, that's not good enough. He's going to decline this coming year, and heavy minutes and playoffs are going to tire him further.
The problem I have is that I don't think Cleveland is good enough to take advantage of that.However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.
Agreed.
Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible. He's not. Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.
Monta Ellis is not a good player. He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.
KG is their best player, that's not good enough.
Because of Landry's better physical offensive game and an equal ability to cover Battier sitting in cornersJust a thought but if Minny goes small with Ibaka at the 5 and Lebron at the four abd Battier at the 3, a line I might consider for Cleveland would be going big and busting it inside with Lawson/Crawford/Landry/Hordford/KG. I would probably try such a lineup as a counter to the Minny small ball in game 1 just to see how it did and if it was successful use it some more.
One thing real life San Antonio and Indiana showed versus Mimai's small ball line up of Chalmers/Wade/Battier/LeBron/Bosh is going big, busting the ball inside and getting very physical with them can make a huge difference. Well, Ellis is no Wade and Ibaka is now Bosh so going the same with a front court of Landry/Horford/KG might seriously effect that Minny small ball and keep such offensive liabilities as Jordan and Big Baby in the game
That's a thought.
Although, if Battier/LeBron is the forward combo for Minnesota, why not just stick with Wallace at SF? Battier's not going to do much else beyond corner threes on offense.
If KG has declined so much that Al Horford (or Ty Lawson) is now the best player on your team you have no shot at all.The problem I have is that I don't think Cleveland is good enough to take advantage of that.However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.
Agreed.
Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible. He's not. Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.
Monta Ellis is not a good player. He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.
KG is their best player, that's not good enough. He's going to decline this coming year, and heavy minutes and playoffs are going to tire him further.
As much as KG is the heart and soul (and defensive identity) of the team, Horford is the best player. And Lawson's pretty dang good.
The problem I have is that I don't think Cleveland is good enough to take advantage of that.However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.
Agreed.
Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible. He's not. Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.
Monta Ellis is not a good player. He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.
KG is their best player, that's not good enough. He's going to decline this coming year, and heavy minutes and playoffs are going to tire him further.
As much as KG is the heart and soul (and defensive identity) of the team, Horford is the best player. And Lawson's pretty dang good.
However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.
Agreed.
Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible. He's not. Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.
Monta Ellis is not a good player. He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.
However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.
Agreed.
Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible. He's not. Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.
Monta Ellis is not a good player. He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.
I doubt that he's the second best player anyway. He's the second scoring option, but certainly not the second best player. I give that to Serge Ibaka.
Nick made a point in another thread that people were underrating Landry. I just want to remind everyone how good he is.
Personally, I think he's one of the best third bigs in the league. In just 23 minutes per game last year, he put up 11 ppg on .540 shooting and .605 TS% and 6 rpg. And he plays tough defense.
As much attention as our starting lineup gets, Landry (and Crawford) can be difference makers in their own right.
5 games sample size, and two games ought to be tossed out due to AB's lack of PT.
As much attention as our starting lineup gets, Landry (and Crawford) can be difference makers in their own right.
5 games sample size, and two games ought to be tossed out due to AB's lack of PT.
But in the two games Bradley did play significant minutes (the last two), Lawson put up 27.5 ppg on 60% shooting (yes you read that right) and 45% 3pt shooting, with 7.5 apg and 6 rpg. That's pretty beastly.
As much attention as our starting lineup gets, Landry (and Crawford) can be difference makers in their own right.
AB, how will you use Landry again? nick suggests that he could maybe play SF, but I've always viewed Landry as an emergency/smallball C option if he's not playing the 4.
However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.
Agreed.
Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible. He's not. Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.
Monta Ellis is not a good player. He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.
5 games sample size, and two games ought to be tossed out due to AB's lack of PT.
But in the two games Bradley did play significant minutes (the last two), Lawson put up 27.5 ppg on 60% shooting (yes you read that right) and 45% 3pt shooting, with 7.5 apg and 6 rpg. That's pretty beastly.
Wow. Small sample size, but wow.
Cleveland doesn't look to me to have that much more talent than some of the Hawks teams. Lawson for JJ and KG for Smith with a better fitting cast doesn't strike me as a title team. Especially with KG another year older.
5 games sample size, and two games ought to be tossed out due to AB's lack of PT.
But in the two games Bradley did play significant minutes (the last two), Lawson put up 27.5 ppg on 60% shooting (yes you read that right) and 45% 3pt shooting, with 7.5 apg and 6 rpg. That's pretty beastly.
Wow. Small sample size, but wow.
For the sake of argument, let's say Bradley does not fare well vs. Lawson, and Minnesota elects to put LeBron on Ty instead.
AB, what will you do to help Lawson run the offense?
Gerald Wallace didn't take advantage of Nate Robinson on him in the playoffs this year. I don't think he'll able to exploit Avery or Monta either.
He just shot 3s, barely posted Nate Rob up at all.Gerald Wallace didn't take advantage of Nate Robinson on him in the playoffs this year. I don't think he'll able to exploit Avery or Monta either.
I didn't see that matchup, but the statistics say that Wallace had a much-improved playoff campaign (all games against the Bulls) over his regular season...
Reg season 7.7 ppg on .397 shooting and .282 from three, ,490 ts%
Playoffs 12 ppg on .463 shooting and .379 from three, .554 ts%
I was actually wondering what caused Wallace to have such a quick turnaround. Maybe it was Nate Rob.
He just shot 3s, barely posted Nate Rob up at all.Gerald Wallace didn't take advantage of Nate Robinson on him in the playoffs this year. I don't think he'll able to exploit Avery or Monta either.
I didn't see that matchup, but the statistics say that Wallace had a much-improved playoff campaign (all games against the Bulls) over his regular season...
Reg season 7.7 ppg on .397 shooting and .282 from three, ,490 ts%
Playoffs 12 ppg on .463 shooting and .379 from three, .554 ts%
I was actually wondering what caused Wallace to have such a quick turnaround. Maybe it was Nate Rob.
Had no plan to take advantage of him, Wallace is just a guy you can hide someone on defensively. Even more so than Tony Allen who would at least sneak in for a backdoor cut or rebound on you.
Good idea or bad: Tony Allen occasionally guarding LeBron.
Those are all from the 07-08 and 09-10 C's. So yeah moving on.....
I wonder if the Cavs have enough length at the rim to bother LeBron when he gets into the paint.
KG certainly does. He has fantastic size and length. However, Horford is only 6-9 with an 8-11 standing reach. Carl Landry is only 6-7/6-8 with a 8-6 standing reach. LeBron has had a lot of success against the Hawks in the past and I don't see Landry causing him any issues.
Outside of KG, I don't Cleveland's shot-blockers are going to cause LeBron many problems.
Which is a problem for me because KG is going to continue to decline.
I'd like to congratulate AB & Air for making to the finals in their 1st go around. That certainly is an accomplishment (much better than I did).
That said, and as nice of a guy as AB in particular is, I just don't see it. Too weak in the wings. I'm baffled they made it this far. To me, wings are more important than bigs in today's NBA.
Likely leaning Minny in this series, because LeBron is LeBron. Maybe if the Cavs had a Paul George type ;) they would have a chance.
Ibaka's main problem at the center position is that he doesn't have the physical size/toughness to matchup against the bigger bodies he faces at the C position vs PF position. KG lacks bulk (at C) too but he makes up for that with superb positional defense and greater length which Ibaka cannot do (yet?).
But when facing each other, it is a non-issue because Garnett doesn't have the type of profile / skill-set that causes Ibaka issues. Ibaka can cover him as an undersized C just as easily as when they matchup at PF.
k it's likely that KG will be hobbled at all. AB indicated that KG sat out back to backs and was under a minutes restriction during the regular season. I certainly don't think that there's a 60% chance that KG will be gimping around out there.QuoteThe only thing that can stop Minnesota from taking this in five games is Monta Ellis trying to get his.
Doesn't Monta Ellis always try to "get his"?
However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.
Agreed.
Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible. He's not. Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.
Monta Ellis is not a good player. He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.
What percentage of 37-38 year old players make it through an NBA season, plus playoffs, at full strength?
Why do people keep saying that Monta Ellis is the second best player on Minnesota? Serge Ibaka is the second best player on Minnesota.
If we keep LeBron smothered, which we intend to, who's gonna be left open for the clutch shot? Monta.
LeBron isn't a "win" button, as Lucky said.
k it's likely that KG will be hobbled at all. AB indicated that KG sat out back to backs and was under a minutes restriction during the regular season. I certainly don't think that there's a 60% chance that KG will be gimping around out there.QuoteThe only thing that can stop Minnesota from taking this in five games is Monta Ellis trying to get his.
Doesn't Monta Ellis always try to "get his"?
But Roy, Kevin Garnett will be 38 years old in the finals. This is charitable.
What percentage of 37-38 year old players make it through an NBA season, plus playoffs, at full strength? And what percentage of those that do are worth even half what they were the year before?
Studies I've seen (like http://wagesofwins.com/2012/07/25/age-is-just-a-varible/ (http://wagesofwins.com/2012/07/25/age-is-just-a-varible/)) indicated that the WP/48 for players his age fall by more than half year over year, on average. That's for the guys who do manage to stay on the court, though! I don't know the attrition rate for 37-year-olds, but for 36-year-olds it's about 30%.
I don't mean to say that Garnett is fragile; I'm just pointing out that he has had several in-season injuries here in Boston and that he sat out the playoffs in '09. He's old, and he keeps in fantastic shape but he's not a Brett Favre never-miss-a-game iron man.
It's just not a good bet that he's going to factor significantly into this matchup.
Here's a a simple, but true, mathematical inequality for you guys: LeBron>(KG+Horford)
I think KG will need to be on the court closer to 40 minutes than 30. He's their only rim protector.
Rim protection is not about blocked shots.I think KG will need to be on the court closer to 40 minutes than 30. He's their only rim protector.
Horford averaged just as many blocks as KG last year.
EWA he is (based on PER)Here's a a simple, but true, mathematical inequality for you guys: LeBron>(KG+Horford)
Scoring wise? Maybe.
Rebounding wise? No.
PER, WS, and other quantifiable stats-wise, I'm skeptical.
I think KG will need to be on the court closer to 40 minutes than 30. He's their only rim protector.
Horford averaged just as many blocks as KG last year.
Rim protection is not about blocked shots.I think KG will need to be on the court closer to 40 minutes than 30. He's their only rim protector.
Horford averaged just as many blocks as KG last year.
Horford isn't in the same class defensively as KG, especially at the C position.
Rim protection is not about blocked shots.I think KG will need to be on the court closer to 40 minutes than 30. He's their only rim protector.
Horford averaged just as many blocks as KG last year.
Horford isn't in the same class defensively as KG, especially at the C position.
Guys, I know this is hard. We're Celtics fans, but you have to at least acknowledge the possibilities that
(1) KG might not be ambulatory for the playoffs
and
(2) KG playing 30 (or 40) minutes in next year's finals might not be above replacement level.
if you acknowledge the possibilities, then the next step is to try to be rational about the probabilities.
I don't like all of the decisions Minnesota made in the draft (trading Taj Gibson! Why oh why?!?!?), but one thing they deserve a lot of credit for is drafting a team of players in their primes. Their range of outcomes is very small because the odds of injury and season-over-season decline affecting the performance of their young, durable roster is relatively quite low.
Cleveland is far more exposed to decline.
Guys, I know this is hard. We're Celtics fans, but you have to at least acknowledge the possibilities that
(1) KG might not be ambulatory for the playoffs
and
(2) KG playing 30 (or 40) minutes in next year's finals might not be above replacement level.
if you acknowledge the possibilities, then the next step is to try to be rational about the probabilities.
I don't like all of the decisions Minnesota made in the draft (trading Taj Gibson! Why oh why?!?!?), but one thing they deserve a lot of credit for is drafting a team of players in their primes. Their range of outcomes is very small because the odds of injury and season-over-season decline affecting the performance of their young, durable roster is relatively quite low.
Cleveland is far more exposed to decline.
But isn't this against the general operating principle of this exercise? I thought we were discounting injuries completely. I know I have.
But isn't this against the general operating principle of this exercise? I thought we were discounting injuries completely. I know I have.
KG's also on a minutes regimen during the regular season, and getting days off in between during the playoffs. Cleveland has advanced thus far in the playoffs. Do KG's wheels suddenly fall off once he reaches the Finals?
TPs to both KGK and Lucky. KG is old, yes, but he has never had as much rest in a regular season as he did in this exercise. He sat out one out of every five games guys.
Expect a fully healthy, ratchet-it-up-a-level-because-it's-the-playoffs Garnett in this series.
Guys, I know this is hard. We're Celtics fans, but you have to at least acknowledge the possibilities that
(1) KG might not be ambulatory for the playoffs
and
(2) KG playing 30 (or 40) minutes in next year's finals might not be above replacement level.
if you acknowledge the possibilities, then the next step is to try to be rational about the probabilities.
TPs to both KGK and Lucky. KG is old, yes, but he has never had as much rest in a regular season as he did in this exercise. He sat out one out of every five games guys.
Expect a fully healthy, ratchet-it-up-a-level-because-it's-the-playoffs Garnett in this series.
Look at you campaigning...
But isn't this against the general operating principle of this exercise? I thought we were discounting injuries completely. I know I have.
KG's also on a minutes regimen during the regular season, and getting days off in between during the playoffs. Cleveland has advanced thus far in the playoffs. Do KG's wheels suddenly fall off once he reaches the Finals?
That is a very interesting point. If Cleveland's arrival in the finals means we should assume a priori that KG is being KG, then I absolutely withdraw all of this argument. I am certainly not trying to make the point that KG will suffer a sudden decline during the actual finals series itself.
I didn't take the rules that way.
Guys, I know this is hard. We're Celtics fans, but you have to at least acknowledge the possibilities that
(1) KG might not be ambulatory for the playoffs
and
(2) KG playing 30 (or 40) minutes in next year's finals might not be above replacement level.
if you acknowledge the possibilities, then the next step is to try to be rational about the probabilities.
I think there's a possibility, but it's certainly not 60%. Closer to 5%, I'd say, but that's of course arbitrary.
The day KG plays at a replacement level is the day he retires.
Guys, I know this is hard. We're Celtics fans, but you have to at least acknowledge the possibilities that
(1) KG might not be ambulatory for the playoffs
and
(2) KG playing 30 (or 40) minutes in next year's finals might not be above replacement level.
if you acknowledge the possibilities, then the next step is to try to be rational about the probabilities.
I think there's a possibility, but it's certainly not 60%. Closer to 5%, I'd say, but that's of course arbitrary.
The day KG plays at a replacement level is the day he retires.
Roy, you are telling me you honestly believe that if the Nets made the finals next year, KG would be 95% likely to play.
There's no set rule on this, but I think a generally accepted agreement has been that if a team makes a deep playoff run (or regular season run), then injuries obviously weren't a huge factor in that season.
Rim protection is not about blocked shots.I think KG will need to be on the court closer to 40 minutes than 30. He's their only rim protector.
Horford averaged just as many blocks as KG last year.
Horford isn't in the same class defensively as KG, especially at the C position.
So you're knocking us for having *only one* defensive player of a generation? Tough crowd.
KG will play 35 minutes in this series. And he can handle that with all his rest from the regular season.
I think that's the generally advanced argument of those who want to minimize age/injury.
As for KG I'm sure he'd be on the court, the question is at what level he's playing at. I'm thinking late last year when they rested him. He didn't look good at all and they shut him down prepping for the playoffs.
That's the sort of thing that concerns me about KG, that and that his peak play will drop from KG to more along the lines of Okafor or Robin Lopez. (from top 20 guy to high level defensive role player)
He might be this next year. And he wouldn't be a bad player, but he'd be a average to slightly above average starter.I think that's the generally advanced argument of those who want to minimize age/injury.
As for KG I'm sure he'd be on the court, the question is at what level he's playing at. I'm thinking late last year when they rested him. He didn't look good at all and they shut him down prepping for the playoffs.
That's the sort of thing that concerns me about KG, that and that his peak play will drop from KG to more along the lines of Okafor or Robin Lopez. (from top 20 guy to high level defensive role player)
Is Okafor with a great jumper that bad of a player? Lopez doesn't have the same level of defense, but give him range out to 20 feet, and he'd be pretty nice, too.
But, KG isn't there yet.
Guys, I know this is hard. We're Celtics fans, but you have to at least acknowledge the possibilities that
(1) KG might not be ambulatory for the playoffs
and
(2) KG playing 30 (or 40) minutes in next year's finals might not be above replacement level.
if you acknowledge the possibilities, then the next step is to try to be rational about the probabilities.
I think there's a possibility, but it's certainly not 60%. Closer to 5%, I'd say, but that's of course arbitrary.
The day KG plays at a replacement level is the day he retires.
Roy, you are telling me you honestly believe that if the Nets made the finals next year, KG would be 95% likely to play.
If the Nets are in the Finals next season, I think it's about 99.8% likely that KG has been healthy and contributing, and that he'll play in the Finals.
Is Okafor with a great jumper that bad of a player?
Rim protection is not about blocked shots.I think KG will need to be on the court closer to 40 minutes than 30. He's their only rim protector.
Horford averaged just as many blocks as KG last year.
Horford isn't in the same class defensively as KG, especially at the C position.
So you're knocking us for having *only one* defensive player of a generation? Tough crowd.
KG will play 35 minutes in this series. And he can handle that with all his rest from the regular season.
KG is playing no more than 28 mpg during the regular season, right?
And he never played in back to backs?
So he probably never played more than 85 minutes in a given week, and likely less the far majority of weeks.
This however will be well into his 2nd month of 35 minute games, 3 times a week, with heavy travel. If you figure that each series was 6 games, he plays 35 minutes a game, he'll be walking into this Finals after playing 630 minutes in roughly 7 weeks, whereas if you assume no back to backs and a few missed games here and there, it would've taken him basically 2 months to play the same minutes during the regular season.
With the way he ran out of gas during the long conference finals run in 2012(talkin' bout the last 2 games), anyone else think that KG doesn't have it in him to go the full road to the trophy as a centerpiece component at 35 minutes a night?
But I'm not all that high on Ty Lawson/Horford.
But I'm not all that high on Ty Lawson/Horford.
Really? A lot of people around here seem to realize that both Lawson and Horford are both very underrated players at their positions. Maybe you want to read my blurbs on them in the presser?
And to address the general KG conversation: during all of these playoff runs (or at least since Perk left) KG was the only above-average defensive big man on the Celtics. Now he's playing alongside Horford (very good defensively) and Landry (above-average defensively). That will relieve him of some pressure and allow him to play better on both ends of the floor.
Carl Landry isn't above average defensively. Mediocre defender.
On the defensive end, Landry is also surprisingly effective. In situations where he was the primary defender, Landry allowed an average of .79 points per play last year—a figure that ranks him in the top 20 percent of NBA players.
But I'm not all that high on Ty Lawson/Horford.
And to address the general KG conversation: during all of these playoff runs (or at least since Perk left) KG was the only above-average defensive big man on the Celtics. Now he's playing alongside Horford (very good defensively) and Landry (above-average defensively). That will relieve him of some pressure and allow him to play better on both ends of the floor.
I can't let you sneak that one by... this is not obvious or generally accepted and I doubt it's true. Even in his best year defensively, which was last year, opposing 4's had a 15 PER against him and centers murdered him. The Warriors were only sliiiightly better on defense with him on the floor, which is even fainter praise considering that he was usually subbing in for a man that many consider the worst defensive PF in basketball.
KG and Horford in the front court is ridiculous.And something that has very seldom been brought up is Carl Landry is the first big off the bench. If he gives this Cleveland team what he gave GSW last year in real life(11 PPG, 6 RPG, 60% TS% and good defense) that is a fantastic front court no matter what two guys are out there.
I'm sorry to nitpick, AB. I agree with most of what you say here. I think we're arguing because Minnesota is such a known quantity while it seems like things could play out in a lot of ways for your team. I like the metaphor, because the guy who's good enough to date my daughter and the guy who puts together a team that will beat Lebron are two people I would very much like to meet.
I can't let you sneak that one by... this is not obvious or generally accepted and I doubt it's true. Even in his best year defensively, which was last year, opposing 4's had a 15 PER against him and centers murdered him. The Warriors were only sliiiightly better on defense with him on the floor, which is even fainter praise considering that he was usually subbing in for a man that many consider the worst defensive PF in basketball.
WOAH... where did that come from? Who are these "many" you're referring to? You might want to take a look at my above post. And if Nick is around he'll back me up that Landry plays solid defense.
I'm sorry to nitpick, AB. I agree with most of what you say here. I think we're arguing because Minnesota is such a known quantity while it seems like things could play out in a lot of ways for your team. I like the metaphor, because the guy who's good enough to date my daughter and the guy who puts together a team that will beat Lebron are two people I would very much like to meet.
Like I said, bring on the nitpicking. I want everyone's questions answered and then for them to make an informed decision.
And as for the latter guy, I think that can be me ;D
I can't let you sneak that one by... this is not obvious or generally accepted and I doubt it's true. Even in his best year defensively, which was last year, opposing 4's had a 15 PER against him and centers murdered him. The Warriors were only sliiiightly better on defense with him on the floor, which is even fainter praise considering that he was usually subbing in for a man that many consider the worst defensive PF in basketball.
WOAH... where did that come from? Who are these "many" you're referring to? You might want to take a look at my above post. And if Nick is around he'll back me up that Landry plays solid defense.
You don't realize that many people consider David Lee to be the worst defensive PF in basketball?
Yeah Landry isn't a good defender.
simple question for the cavs......who do you think are your scorers for this series?
(am going to look through the thread to see if this has been answered)
Carl Landry has below average length and quickness at the PF position (at least defensively). His so-so defensive instincts that leads to mediocre overall defensive ability. Offensive backup PF.Yeah Landry isn't a good defender.
Wanna go into more detail there? Maybe tell me why you aren't high on Lawson and Horford too? Why Horford can't anchor the defense for the few minutes KG is out? Why Wallace can't take advantage of Bradley/Monta when he (statistically) did with Nate Rob?
I appreciate everyone's opinion, but I'd like to see some actual backing up of opinions.
Carl Landry has below average length and quickness at the PF position (at least defensively). His so-so defensive instincts that leads to mediocre overall defensive ability. Offensive backup PF.Yeah Landry isn't a good defender.
Wanna go into more detail there? Maybe tell me why you aren't high on Lawson and Horford too? Why Horford can't anchor the defense for the few minutes KG is out? Why Wallace can't take advantage of Bradley/Monta when he (statistically) did with Nate Rob?
I appreciate everyone's opinion, but I'd like to see some actual backing up of opinions.
I'm not high on Lawson as the best player on a title team because:
1. Defensively he's a liability
2. He's up and down offensively with his decision making
He's a devastating speed threat who is an explosive scorer. But as a PG I don't think he's in a high enough class to make up for his D.
Al Horford puzzles me, I think he should be better than he is. He's efficient but unremarkable offensively. Doesn't create a ton of easy looks for himself and others much of the time. He can be too passive on that end as well, isn't a lead the team type scorer.
Defensively he's solid but not an anchor, doesn't protect the rim all that well or disrupt sets often enough.
He's also playing out of position for his entire career too so he's hard to judge. I just don' think they can be the 1/2 on a title team.
Starting Lineup for Finals
1 - Ellis
2 - Bradley
3 - James
4 - Ibaka
5 - Jordan
In this series with Cleveland having slight framed big men, expect a lot of James-Ibaka at the 4 & 5 spots which allow Korver, Battier, & Chalmers to sub in regularly.
Ask any and all questions regarding Minnesota's offense/defense, Cleveland's offense/defense, or strategy related questions.
Thanks-
McHP
Not to speak for McHP, but I'd likely use a lineup of Ibaka/James/Battier/Korver/Chalmers more often than not. Maybe sub Jordan for Ibaka if he struggles to guard either of the Cavs bigs.I think Cleveland counters that going big. Yes, Lebron will get his in that lineup nut if he is cold or isn't involving others, or the others aren't hitting, Cleveland will clean up on the boards and dominate the offensive boards and the interior when they play offensively
That seems to be the lineup that would put the most strain on the Cavs to defend, while not really allowing them to keep their best defenders on the court, if they hope to keep up with the scoring ability of that lineup.
My view on this is that both teams are amongst the best defensive teams in this game. So therefore, I see a lot of low scoring affairs.
But if that's the case, obviously Lebron is going to get his but who else on an offensively challenged Timberwolves squad is going to get any more? I think the Cavs have enough more offensive versatility than the Wolves. The Cavs can get 15 points a night from 5 different guys(Lawson, KG, Landry, Horford, Crawford) and maybe more from some, whereas the TWolves have Lebron and Ellis if he is chucking that will score against this tough Cavs defense.
I just feel the balanced scoring, as good if not better defense and the very obvious dominance of the boards makes Cleveland the team to beat.
Defense and rebounding, especially if you can have balanced scoring and the opposition has to shut down a whole team and not just one or possibly two guys.
My view on this is that both teams are amongst the best defensive teams in this game. So therefore, I see a lot of low scoring affairs.
But if that's the case, obviously Lebron is going to get his but who else on an offensively challenged Timberwolves squad is going to get any more? I think the Cavs have enough more offensive versatility than the Wolves. The Cavs can get 15 points a night from 5 different guys(Lawson, KG, Landry, Horford, Crawford) and maybe more from some, whereas the TWolves have Lebron and Ellis if he is chucking that will score against this tough Cavs defense.
I just feel the balanced scoring, as good if not better defense and the very obvious dominance of the boards makes Cleveland the team to beat.
Defense and rebounding, especially if you can have balanced scoring and the opposition has to shut down a whole team and not just one or possibly two guys.
This is pretty much how I see things, too.
But, what do the Commish and the two-time champ know? ;)
Does voting end tonight?
Polls open at 12 noon EST Sept. 12th. Close 11:59:59PM Sept. 13th. PM all votes to me and just provide me your 2013 CB Draft winning team.
Voting open for two days, no?Polls open at 12 noon EST Sept. 12th. Close 11:59:59PM Sept. 13th. PM all votes to me and just provide me your 2013 CB Draft winning team.
LeBron James is a career 43.2% shooter against the Clippers. Someone explain that to me.
LeBron James is a career 43.2% shooter against the Clippers. Someone explain that to me.
Being in LA plus frequent Lakers/Clippers two-game stands? Could be a lot of letdown games in that mix.
My view on this is that both teams are amongst the best defensive teams in this game. So therefore, I see a lot of low scoring affairs.Ditto
But if that's the case, obviously Lebron is going to get his but who else on an offensively challenged Timberwolves squad is going to get any more? I think the Cavs have enough more offensive versatility than the Wolves. The Cavs can get 15 points a night from 5 different guys(Lawson, KG, Landry, Horford, Crawford) and maybe more from some, whereas the TWolves have Lebron and Ellis if he is chucking that will score against this tough Cavs defense.
I just feel the balanced scoring, as good if not better defense and the very obvious dominance of the boards makes Cleveland the team to beat.
Defense and rebounding, especially if you can have balanced scoring and the opposition has to shut down a whole team and not just one or possibly two guys.
LeBron James is a career 43.2% shooter against the Clippers. Someone explain that to me.
Being in LA plus frequent Lakers/Clippers two-game stands? Could be a lot of letdown games in that mix.
Yeah, that seems the most likely. I keep trying to find a series of games where Lebron has played poorly despite no elite defender getting in his way, and I can't find any.
This argument seems about dead, but I have another question (even though my others have been unanswered):
Could any player, even one as good as Lebron, overcome these 2013 playoff performances from the other four starters?
2012-13 playoffs:
DeAndre Jordan: 3.7 points, 6.3 rebounds, .424 TS% (!!!)
Serge Ibaka: 12.8 points, 8.4 rebounds, .484 TS%
Avery Bradley: 6.7 points, 2.2 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 1.8 turnovers, .457 TS%
Monta Ellis: 14.3 points, 3.3 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 3.5 turnovers, .459 TS%
It's the lack of efficiency that blows my mind. A true shooting percentage below .500 is considered to be very, very bad. Here, all four of the Minnesota starters shot below that number in the most recent playoffs.
Or, if you prefer have everything laid out for you in one number:
Playoff PER:
Ellis: 12.3
Ibaka: 17.1
Jordan: 7.3
Bradley: 6.7
The average PER is 15.0, which includes all players in the NBA. Presumably, the PER of a starter would be in most cases higher than that average, since starters should have higher averages than end of bench players. Regardless, only Ibaka rates out as above average, due primarily to his blocked shots. Ellis, and especially Jordan and Bradley, are well-below average.
Lebron was fantastic in last year's playoffs, but even he can't overcome horrific performances like the above.
Playoff PER:
Ellis: 12.3
Ibaka: 17.1
Jordan: 7.3
Bradley: 6.7
The average PER is 15.0, which includes all players in the NBA. Presumably, the PER of a starter would be in most cases higher than that average, since starters should have higher averages than end of bench players. Regardless, only Ibaka rates out as above average, due primarily to his blocked shots. Ellis, and especially Jordan and Bradley, are well-below average.
Lebron was fantastic in last year's playoffs, but even he can't overcome horrific performances like the above.
Playoff PER:
Ellis: 12.3
Ibaka: 17.1
Jordan: 7.3
Bradley: 6.7
The average PER is 15.0, which includes all players in the NBA. Presumably, the PER of a starter would be in most cases higher than that average, since starters should have higher averages than end of bench players. Regardless, only Ibaka rates out as above average, due primarily to his blocked shots. Ellis, and especially Jordan and Bradley, are well-below average.
Lebron was fantastic in last year's playoffs, but even he can't overcome horrific performances like the above.
Interesting numbers. Sounds like he should consider starting Big Baby, who had an 18.8 PER in his last playoff trip. ;)
Here's the problem I have with this series:Of these two I place the Ibaka thing as the more likely one. After all we've seen LeBron with limited supported casts be a true contender. (Cleveland)
One team is relying on a 38 year old Kevin Garnett to be its lynchpin to victory, while the other team is relying on Serge Ibaka to be its second best player, and Monta Ellis to be a consistent scorer.
I don't think any one of those three things are possible.
Here's the problem I have with this series:
One team is relying on a 38 year old Kevin Garnett to be its lynchpin to victory, while the other team is relying on Serge Ibaka to be its second best player, and Monta Ellis to be a consistent scorer.
I don't think any one of those three things are possible.
Here's the problem I have with this series:Of these two I place the Ibaka thing as the more likely one. After all we've seen LeBron with limited supported casts be a true contender. (Cleveland)
One team is relying on a 38 year old Kevin Garnett to be its lynchpin to victory, while the other team is relying on Serge Ibaka to be its second best player, and Monta Ellis to be a consistent scorer.
I don't think any one of those three things are possible.
Al Horford with a similar level supporting cast with the Hawks has been trounced in the early playoffs repeatedly and its been ugly.
But as IP says, neither scenario seems all that likely to me.
The efficiency numbers for Cleveland's starters in their most recent playoffs:
Horford: .560 TS%
Garnett: .563 TS%
Wallace: .554 TS%
Allen: .512 TS%
Lawson: .549 TS%
Again, contrast that with Minnesota:
Jorday: .424 TS% (again, !!!)
Ibaka: .484 TS%
Lebron: .585 TS%
Ellis: .459 TS%
Bradley: .457 TS%
Lebron is the best player in the series. His supporting cast is beyond terrible, though. Lebron isn't Hercules; he's not winning jack unless his teammates contribute.
The efficiency numbers for Cleveland's starters in their most recent playoffs:
Horford: .560 TS%
Garnett: .563 TS%
Wallace: .554 TS%
Allen: .512 TS%
Lawson: .549 TS%
Again, contrast that with Minnesota:
Jorday: .424 TS% (again, !!!)
Ibaka: .484 TS%
Lebron: .585 TS%
Ellis: .459 TS%
Bradley: .457 TS%
Lebron is the best player in the series. His supporting cast is beyond terrible, though. Lebron isn't Hercules; he's not winning jack unless his teammates contribute.
Don't forget Landry either, who posted a .578 TS%. And let's have a peek at PER in last year's playoffs...
Garnett 17.3 PER
Horford 19.1 PER
Lawson 20.4 PER
Landry 21.3 PER
T.Allen 17.7 PER
I get that it supports the case of your side, but using deliberately small samples (playoffs) is a poor way to evaluate players when you have so much more information.
LeBron + Ibaka + Monta > Horford + Garnett + Ty Lawson
Which team's core would you prefer on your team next season and for next season alone? Which gives you the greater chance at winning? If you could have either trio here in Boston who do you choose?
For me, it is definitely LeBron and friends. As weak as LeBron's supporting stars are, for my money Minnesota's three man core is still superior to Cleveland's.
It's true, Minnesota are not a great team. But neither is Cleveland.
Here's the problem I have with this series:
One team is relying on a 38 year old Kevin Garnett to be its lynchpin to victory, while the other team is relying on Serge Ibaka to be its second best player, and Monta Ellis to be a consistent scorer.
I don't think any one of those three things are possible.
I'm surprised that many voters seem to be low on Horford and Lawson.
I'm also surprised to see many voters who usually are pretty savvy when it comes to analytics and efficiency turn their back on those numbers in favor of the Lebron win button.
(http://www.ourhonordefend.com/wp-content/uploads/staples-easy-button.jpg)
Here's the problem I have with this series:
One team is relying on a 38 year old Kevin Garnett to be its lynchpin to victory, while the other team is relying on Serge Ibaka to be its second best player, and Monta Ellis to be a consistent scorer.
I don't think any one of those three things are possible.
I'm surprised that many voters seem to be low on Horford and Lawson.
I'm also surprised to see many voters who usually are pretty savvy when it comes to analytics and efficiency turn their back on those numbers in favor of the Lebron win button.
(http://www.ourhonordefend.com/wp-content/uploads/staples-easy-button.jpg)
First of all, if irony were made of strawberries, we'd all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now.
Secondly, I want to know if the, "usually you guys are super smart when it comes to this stuff. I'm just really surprised you're so dumb about it right now" argumentative tactic is a winner. It's complisult, and a fine one.
Thirdly, what's the better bet: Betting on Lebron to pull a uninspired cast of misfits and ne'er-do-wells kicking and screaming through their ceiling and out the other side, or a cast of second-tier stars coming together through a grueling playoff run and coming out as improbable winners against the best basketball player on the planet?
Cuz I mean, I really, really don't like the Minnesota team. But at the same time I don't think the Cleveland team is all that great. I guess I have an easier time thinking that the defense from KG and Horford and heroic efforts from Ty Lawson (career 56% shooter against Bradley, with some big games where both guys played big minutes), and average production from Horford/Garnett offensively..I dunno.
Secondly, I want to know if the, "usually you guys are super smart when it comes to this stuff. I'm just really surprised you're so dumb about it right now" argumentative tactic is a winner. It's complisult, and a fine one.I think this is very well said. This has been a kinder draft, but this has been thrown around too much.
I disagree with you on that Roy. Most players playoff numbers are pretty well in line with their overall regular season numbers, with a moderate decline commensurate with the tougher brand of defensive played.
But its a very small sample size, so what you get are wild variations that go with that decline. Assigning meaning to those fluctuations is the worse misuse of statistics.
Is Tony really a 17.7 PER playoff guy? If so why wasn't he in the past playoffs? Has his game changed that much?
Or did he just have a good shooting 15 games along with an outstanding rebounding 15 games (12.9 from a SG!) Meanwhile in past playoffs you can see he's more in line with his career, and so are his overall playoff numbers.
I think the idea that Lebron can, by himself, carry a bunch of below-average players with *terrible* efficiency to a title is silly. It has ZERO basis in reality. None, at all. Both in real life and the CB Draft, to win Lebron has needed to have good players around him.
But, the problem with the CB Draft in general is that many people are busy, and don't have the time to read the various arguments, or to spend a lot of time thinking about it. They're going to vote based upon conventional wisdom, or their own preconceived biases.
So, what you get is the Win Button. It's a credit to you last year that you constructed a team that was good enough to go down to the wire with a Lebron squad that had another star player, a very good defense, and a very efficient offense. Most years from now on, that will never happen, because people just assume "Lebron = win". Even when Lebron's top five teammates all have a TS% below .485.
As for the "you're too stupid" argument, it probably comes across like that. It's genuine disappointment. I see bright, informed voters use analytics every day in these forums, and many of them are slaves to efficiency (in a good way). When we get to the CB Draft, though, that sometimes goes out the window. It's kind of a stomach punch seeing stuff like that, because I expect more. At the very least, give some vigorous, reasoned debate, you know? So, I apologize if it comes across as insulting, but I don't really retract it. A lot of the arguments that have been advanced this week to justify votes have been ultra-weak. I guess that's better than those who vote without commenting, but I guess I expect more. (And for the record, that doesn't include everyone who disagrees with me. Several voters have spent a ton of time explaining their reasoning.)
No I actually want to know if it works. I've seen you say it a few times now, and I'm curious as to if its worked out. I'll put it in my arsenal of ready to go rebuttals.
voting is unique and a personal thing to each voter, in any circumstance (politics, cb draft, etc.). everyone is different in what they value, what they foresee, and how they interpret things. being told a voter is wrong, uninformed, or anything else that is being implied is just wrong imo. this is a hypothetical exercise where voting takes place. no one's vote is more valued or more important than the next person. if someone does not agree with someone's analysis, interprets things differently, or projects different outcomes....they aren't wrong, misinformed, a sheep, or anything else....they have a difference of opinion, plain and simple..
Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny. In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.That is a good topic.
Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny. In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.
A) A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.
B) A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees). Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria. Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard. If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning. Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.
None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.
Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny. In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.
A) A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.
B) A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees). Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria. Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard. If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning. Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.
None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.
Where does Shawn Marion fit into this analysis?
Wallace is Cleveland's Marion. The rest of the roster compares favorably, as well
Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny. In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.
A) A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.
B) A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees). Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria. Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard. If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning. Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.
None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.
Where does Shawn Marion fit into this analysis?
Wallace is Cleveland's Marion. The rest of the roster compares favorably, as well
So Cleveland's playing Wallace big minutes?
Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny. In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.
A) A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.
B) A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees). Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria. Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard. If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning. Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.
None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.
Where does Shawn Marion fit into this analysis?
Wallace is Cleveland's Marion. The rest of the roster compares favorably, as well
So Cleveland's playing Wallace big minutes?
Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny. In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.
A) A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.
B) A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees). Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria. Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard. If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning. Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.
None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.
Where does Shawn Marion fit into this analysis?
Wallace is Cleveland's Marion. The rest of the roster compares favorably, as well
So Cleveland's playing Wallace big minutes?
Yes. And he performed well offensively in the playoffs last year.
Nate Robinson is tough to break down defensively, I mean Wallace only has 1 foot and 100 lbs. on him. What can you do.Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny. In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.
A) A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.
B) A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees). Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria. Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard. If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning. Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.
None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.
Where does Shawn Marion fit into this analysis?
Wallace is Cleveland's Marion. The rest of the roster compares favorably, as well
So Cleveland's playing Wallace big minutes?
Yes. And he performed well offensively in the playoffs last year.
Well yeah for 7 games against an overachieving and injured Bulls team. That's hardly an endorsement for a Finals run, is it?
Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny. In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.
A) A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.
B) A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees). Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria. Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard. If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning. Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.
None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.
Where does Shawn Marion fit into this analysis?
Wallace is Cleveland's Marion. The rest of the roster compares favorably, as well
Nate Robinson is tough to break down defensively, I mean Wallace only has 1 foot and 100 lbs. on him. What can you do.
Gerald Wallace didn't take advantage of Nate Robinson on him in the playoffs this year. I don't think he'll able to exploit Avery or Monta either.
Here's part of the reason LeBron needs to have legit counterpart. If he is allowed to just cheat on defense and save energy, he is likely to be that much more likely to succeed on offense, as it leads to many steals and fast break points.
Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny. In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.
A) A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.
B) A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees). Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria. Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard. If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning. Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.
None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.
Where does Shawn Marion fit into this analysis?
Wallace is Cleveland's Marion. The rest of the roster compares favorably, as well
Marion from a few years ago would have been on the "longer" list back then for me (as in, still needing an elite scorer next to him). Today, I don't think I would put him there, it'd be rather borderline. He'd need a vastly better roster in many other areas.
Wallace isn't even close to on that list. Bit part on a team that just doesn't appear much better on the whole in the other aspects.
Argument: There's no such thing as a "wrong" opinion.
Reality: (Biting my tongue.)
Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny. In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.
A) A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.
B) A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees). Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria. Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard. If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning. Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.
None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.
Where does Shawn Marion fit into this analysis?
Wallace is Cleveland's Marion. The rest of the roster compares favorably, as well
Marion from a few years ago would have been on the "longer" list back then for me (as in, still needing an elite scorer next to him). Today, I don't think I would put him there, it'd be rather borderline. He'd need a vastly better roster in many other areas.
Wallace isn't even close to on that list. Bit part on a team that just doesn't appear much better on the whole in the other aspects.
Is Paul George that good a defender? Surprised to see his name on that list, but then I see he was one of your guys.
Argument: There's no such thing as a "wrong" opinion.
Reality: (Biting my tongue.)
Well, FWIW, I'm not too high on your opinion, TBH.
I would really like to have seen more head to head debate between the GMs which we have seen in past Finals debates. Kind of disappointed in that
I would really like to have seen more head to head debate between the GMs which we have seen in past Finals debates. Kind of disappointed in that
Yeah. MP basically posted his lineup, and has been absent. One post in 14 pages. It's a bummer.
I'm still waiting to hear how a team with four very inefficient playoff performers as starters is likely to win against *any* team, let alone a very good team like the Cavs.
Here's part of the reason LeBron needs to have legit counterpart. If he is allowed to just cheat on defense and save energy, he is likely to be that much more likely to succeed on offense, as it leads to many steals and fast break points.
Again, that really wasn't the case against Dallas in 2010.
I guess the trouble I have with a lot of the arguments in the thread is that most of the reasoning has already been proven wrong.
Argument: Lebron can't lose unless he's got a small forward on him who can both score and play elite defense.
Reality: Lebron lost in the 2010 Finals, despite playing against Shawn Marion.
Argument: Lebron is unbeatable unless the other team clearly trumps him at all other positions.
Reality: Lebron lost to Dallas despite having Wade and Bosh, and should have lost against San Antonio. He's won two titles in ten years, and again, one of those titles had to be gifted to him, despite having two other all-stars.
Argument: Lebron radically makes things easier on his teammates, amplifying their shooting percentages.
Reality: There's very little amplifying effect, if any. Lebron certainly isn't turning inefficient players into efficient ones.
Argument: There's no such thing as a "wrong" opinion.
Reality: (Biting my tongue.)
Is Paul George that good a defender? Surprised to see his name on that list, but then I see he was one of your guys.I think Paul George is right up there with Iggy, LeBron and TA as the best wing defender in basketball.
Is Paul George that good a defender? Surprised to see his name on that list, but then I see he was one of your guys.I think Paul George is right up there with Iggy, LeBron and TA as the best wing defender in basketball.
Is Paul George that good a defender? Surprised to see his name on that list, but then I see he was one of your guys.I think Paul George is right up there with Iggy, LeBron and TA as the best wing defender in basketball.
Is he? I haven't paid much attention to his defense. Better than Leonard?
Lawson 14-18
Horford 12-16
Garnett 12-16
Landry 6-12
Crawford 6-12
Wallace 6-10
Allen 6-10
Bradley/Ellis/Chalmers on Lawson is a matchup that is in my favor.
Argument: There's no such thing as a "wrong" opinion.
Reality: (Biting my tongue.)
Argument: There's no such thing as a "wrong" opinion.
Reality: (Biting my tongue.)
continuing to harp on such things will only make people not want to engage in conversation or debate. i know it has for me. i voted minny and dont even feel like attempting to justify it. i would only be labeled or potentially made to feel i would be "wrong" in a few people's opinion.
congrats to both teams for making it thus far. i will only observe from here on out until the results are posted. to all gm's, congrats on making this draft a good one. with no consensus favorite, it shows the balance in the draft this year....kudos.
Although Im not saying he doesn't think you're wrong. It's a really meta joke.
Everyone, what Lucky did right there is awesome.
Am I wrong to have more faith in Jamal Crawford scoring 15 a night within the flow of the game (read: not to the detriment of his team's offense) than I do in Monta Ellis?
Yeah I've pretty much stopped responding to Roy's posts regarding Monta, my team's scoring issues, and all of the other reasons why he thought I should have lost long ago. He has been the VP of the Anti-Minnesota club - which is cool and completely fine. But yeah - not everyone will agree with him or with me...it's just time to let people form their own opinions and vote and see who comes out on top.
I'm disappointed that we were using a d20 system. Not fine-tuned enough for me.
I would have preferred a 10d10 system. Get right down to the percentile level, you know?
Anyhoo, Schooner Exact is now batting 3 for 3 with me. Probably doesn't mean much if you're not within driving distance of the Cascades, but I've got to speak the truth.
I'm disappointed that we were using a d20 system. Not fine-tuned enough for me.
I would have preferred a 10d10 system. Get right down to the percentile level, you know?
Anyhoo, Schooner Exact is now batting 3 for 3 with me. Probably doesn't mean much if you're not within driving distance of the Cascades, but I've got to speak the truth.
Haha, well Im a traditionialist. A creature of habit.
FTR, it's Flying Dog's Raging Explitive for me. Belgian White IPA, that doesn't have a whole lot going for it besides the hops in the front, and the 7% kick.
I'm disappointed that we were using a d20 system. Not fine-tuned enough for me.
I would have preferred a 10d10 system. Get right down to the percentile level, you know?
Anyhoo, Schooner Exact is now batting 3 for 3 with me. Probably doesn't mean much if you're not within driving distance of the Cascades, but I've got to speak the truth.
Haha, well Im a traditionialist. A creature of habit.
I'm disappointed that we were using a d20 system. Not fine-tuned enough for me.
I would have preferred a 10d10 system. Get right down to the percentile level, you know?
Anyhoo, Schooner Exact is now batting 3 for 3 with me. Probably doesn't mean much if you're not within driving distance of the Cascades, but I've got to speak the truth.
Haha, well Im a traditionialist. A creature of habit.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnYKVeb5v60
Argument: Lebron can't lose unless he's got a small forward on him who can both score and play elite defense.
Reality: Lebron lost in the 2010 Finals, despite playing against Shawn Marion. He also lost against Hedo Turkuglu / Rashard Lewis.
I'm still very proud of what I was able to do. Looking forward to participating again next year.
Same for me...a tie is a tie. Job well done, sirs.
Personally, I think the idea of co champs is a little ridiculous and I like the AB brothers, but McH put together a team that earned HCA, it would never have dawned on me that the word " advance" would exclude a team from winning a championship, nor do I think it should. McHP put together a team that won by the rules we have, if we want to talk about it for next year, that's cool. But the TWolves advanced to from the Finals to the Trophy podium.
Personally, I think the idea of co champs is a little ridiculous and I like the AB brothers, but McH put together a team that earned HCA, it would never have dawned on me that the word " advance" would exclude a team from winning a championship, nor do I think it should. McHP put together a team that won by the rules we have, if we want to talk about it for next year, that's cool. But the TWolves advanced to from the Finals to the Trophy podium.
I mean, it seems a little unfair to change the rules after the fact based on a perceived ambiguity, real or imagined.
Personally, I think the idea of co champs is a little ridiculous and I like the AB brothers, but McH put together a team that earned HCA, it would never have dawned on me that the word " advance" would exclude a team from winning a championship, nor do I think it should. McHP put together a team that won by the rules we have, if we want to talk about it for next year, that's cool. But the TWolves advanced to from the Finals to the Trophy podium.
I mean, it seems a little unfair to change the rules after the fact based on a perceived ambiguity, real or imagined.
The rules aren't clear about what happens for a tie-breaker in the Finals, and it's not really "unfair" since MP agrees with the result.
Someone had to win, and I can't think of a better way to break the tie (suggestions???). The end result, while brutal for the Cavs, seems fair.
I mean, it seems a little unfair to change the rules after the fact based on a perceived ambiguity, real or imagined.
The rules aren't clear about what happens for a tie-breaker in the Finals
Also, I might be a little confused, but I was under the impression that the commissioner was in charge of interpreting and applying the rules of the draft, not the moderating staff. Maybe the mods have some kind of veto power?
TP for MP for even saying it and give the man more TP's for actually meaning it. That is pretty dang cool, IMHO!!!! I think that type of sportsmanship should be commended.
TP for MP for even saying it and give the man more TP's for actually meaning it. That is pretty dang cool, IMHO!!!! I think that type of sportsmanship should be commended.
Sorry to dig this up from the past, but since my DKC team is deep in the lottery this is my only past success to cling to. I thought I would revisit my roster and my opponents' roster to see if my opinions changed on any of the players involved after playing the 2013-14 season.
Looks like I was right about Monta and DeAndre. Monta collected the same counting stats with much more efficient percentages. DeAndre broke out in a big way. Avery showed improved shooting this season. Ibaka and Korver as expected. LeBron is LeBron.
;D
No way Cleveland should have made the finals in hindsight. Even back then, I was surprised to see them advance so far.