Author Topic: NBA Early 2000s (Webber, Kobe, KG, Iverson, TMac, Shaq, Vinsanity, Timmy, etc  (Read 20576 times)

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Offline GreenFaith1819

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I jumped in just to say, if DH would block his shots, what was he doing being evenly played ALL the time but by a MUCH older Shaq? LOL prime Shaq would easily embarrass Howard... not even prime but a younger Shaq would give DH a lot of trouble!!!! Stop with revisionist history, if someone can't handle an old man, how do you expect them to handle the same man but much younger?
Revisionism?

Wait a second. I just went through quite a few game logs. D Howard outplayed Shaq in his Boston year and his Cleveland year. In his 2nd Pheonix year they only played one game against each other which was about even. Prior to that D Howard was like 21 years old.  That year Shaq was traded and D Howard outplayed him in a game against the Heat. 

I'm not so sure on this one

But do you really think Prime Dwight would outplay Prime Shaq, eja?

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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I jumped in just to say, if DH would block his shots, what was he doing being evenly played ALL the time but by a MUCH older Shaq? LOL prime Shaq would easily embarrass Howard... not even prime but a younger Shaq would give DH a lot of trouble!!!! Stop with revisionist history, if someone can't handle an old man, how do you expect them to handle the same man but much younger?
Revisionism?

Wait a second. I just went through quite a few game logs. D Howard outplayed Shaq in his Boston year and his Cleveland year. In his 2nd Pheonix year they only played one game against each other which was about even. Prior to that D Howard was like 21 years old.  That year Shaq was traded and D Howard outplayed him in a game against the Heat.  

I'm not so sure on this one

LOL you went back 3 years and Shaq was what 35-38 those seasons, again, Howard did NOT out play Shaq, show me your definition of out play. Like I said if Shaq is that old and DH is having trouble then what does that speak to when it's a 30 and younger Shaq?? Come on dude! Yea Howard would run a fat Shaq all day, cuz he did so well with that when Shaq was close to retirement!
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Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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I jumped in just to say, if DH would block his shots, what was he doing being evenly played ALL the time but by a MUCH older Shaq? LOL prime Shaq would easily embarrass Howard... not even prime but a younger Shaq would give DH a lot of trouble!!!! Stop with revisionist history, if someone can't handle an old man, how do you expect them to handle the same man but much younger?
Revisionism?

Wait a second. I just went through quite a few game logs. D Howard outplayed Shaq in his Boston year and his Cleveland year. In his 2nd Pheonix year they only played one game against each other which was about even. Prior to that D Howard was like 21 years old.  That year Shaq was traded and D Howard outplayed him in a game against the Heat.  

I'm not so sure on this one

But do you really think Prime Dwight would outplay Prime Shaq, eja?

I'm not understanding that thinking, if you tell me DH was putting up 30 and 20 on Shaq and Shaq was getting 10 and 5 on Dwight (average), I would say he whooped up on an old Shaq and think maybe DH would give a prime Shaq a run for his money but the times they have played it was far closer than that, so imagine them at the same age!
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

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I jumped in just to say, if DH would block his shots, what was he doing being evenly played ALL the time but by a MUCH older Shaq? LOL prime Shaq would easily embarrass Howard... not even prime but a younger Shaq would give DH a lot of trouble!!!! Stop with revisionist history, if someone can't handle an old man, how do you expect them to handle the same man but much younger?

Shaq as a rookie was better than anything Dwight prime

Shaq ROOKIE (20year old) year 23.4 and 13.9 rb, and 3.5 blk
Dwight PEAK (25year old) year 22.9 and 14.1 rb  and 2.4blk

Vincent Thomas:

Quote
Shaq turned a generation of big men into whimpering babies when they played him. ("He keeps dropping his shoulder!" "He keeps initiating contact!" "He's so big what do you want me to do?!" "If I can't foul him, how can I stop him?! This is unfair!") Adonises would get about six minutes of Shaq, throw up their hands and quit. He was more than dominant. He was frightening and demoralizing. In fact, Shaq basically voided the center position for a good 10 years. If Shaq never existed, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Webber, Zach Randolph, Al Jefferson -- a lot of dudes 6-foot-10 and bigger, probably -- would have played center their whole careers. I've never been able to get a coach or exec to corroborate this theory, but it's true. I know it is. And I'm not the only who believes this to be the case.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/03/03/thomas.shaq.20090303/index.html

Shaq 7'2 320lbs, Dwight 6'10 270lbs you do the math

Shaq size (7'2 320lbs), footwork, post game, passing skills, and killer instinct was unmatched. Every night he wanted to humiliate the opposing center. Dwight wants to be besties.

Offline ManUp

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What it comes down to for me is that TMac is nowhere near the player Lebron and Durant are. And Kobe at his best is just not that much better than those guys.

And today's pgs are far better shooters.

And I just don't think the bigs of 2003 are as good of athletes as todays. B Griffin can jump out of the gym. Howard can outrun Shaq all day.

And K Love is a better shooter.
 
Today's pgs are just as good of rebounders and not that much worse of passers.

I guess 2003 had better defenders, but today's defenders aren't bad.

You underrate McGrady.  In his prime he could do anything he wanted on the offensive end. He had a very short prime, but prime McGrady was clearly better than todays Durant. He could get his shot whenever he wanted and there was nothing you could do about it and what made it crazier is that he didn't even seem to be trying. By the time he reached Houston he wasn't the same player so if that's the McGrady your thinking you already missed his best years.

Offline syfy9

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What it comes down to for me is that TMac is nowhere near the player Lebron and Durant are. And Kobe at his best is just not that much better than those guys.

And today's pgs are far better shooters.

And I just don't think the bigs of 2003 are as good of athletes as todays. B Griffin can jump out of the gym. Howard can outrun Shaq all day.

And K Love is a better shooter.
 
Today's pgs are just as good of rebounders and not that much worse of passers.

I guess 2003 had better defenders, but today's defenders aren't bad.

You underrate McGrady.  In his prime he could do anything he wanted on the offensive end. He had a very short prime, but prime McGrady was clearly better than todays Durant. He could get his shot whenever he wanted and there was nothing you could do about it and what made it crazier is that he didn't even seem to be trying. By the time he reached Houston he wasn't the same player so if that's the McGrady your thinking you already missed his best years.
You underrate Durant. He's not even in his prime yet (what is he, 23, 24???) and he dominates the league. Durant could shoot over the top of ANYBODY guarding him (excluding some bigs), but still drive strong and FINISH strong. At the moment, prime T-Mac is better than young Durant. I would wait a couple of years for Durant to reach HIS prime before making a comparison.


2000s > right now.

The next decade or so > 2000s.

I like Marcus Smart

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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What it comes down to for me is that TMac is nowhere near the player Lebron and Durant are. And Kobe at his best is just not that much better than those guys.

And today's pgs are far better shooters.

And I just don't think the bigs of 2003 are as good of athletes as todays. B Griffin can jump out of the gym. Howard can outrun Shaq all day.

And K Love is a better shooter.
 
Today's pgs are just as good of rebounders and not that much worse of passers.

I guess 2003 had better defenders, but today's defenders aren't bad.

You underrate McGrady.  In his prime he could do anything he wanted on the offensive end. He had a very short prime, but prime McGrady was clearly better than todays Durant. He could get his shot whenever he wanted and there was nothing you could do about it and what made it crazier is that he didn't even seem to be trying. By the time he reached Houston he wasn't the same player so if that's the McGrady your thinking you already missed his best years.

All I know, I really felt bad when McGrady couldn't be that player longer, the guy was really good!! Orlando cursed him as he went out so no team could experience the joys of having that T-Mac, I believe, LOL!
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Offline Eja117

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I jumped in just to say, if DH would block his shots, what was he doing being evenly played ALL the time but by a MUCH older Shaq? LOL prime Shaq would easily embarrass Howard... not even prime but a younger Shaq would give DH a lot of trouble!!!! Stop with revisionist history, if someone can't handle an old man, how do you expect them to handle the same man but much younger?
Revisionism?

Wait a second. I just went through quite a few game logs. D Howard outplayed Shaq in his Boston year and his Cleveland year. In his 2nd Pheonix year they only played one game against each other which was about even. Prior to that D Howard was like 21 years old.  That year Shaq was traded and D Howard outplayed him in a game against the Heat. 

I'm not so sure on this one

But do you really think Prime Dwight would outplay Prime Shaq, eja?
One on one or even in a scenario where they are the #1s on their team? Absolutely not. In a fairly even 5 on 5? Definitely.

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What it comes down to for me is that TMac is nowhere near the player Lebron and Durant are. And Kobe at his best is just not that much better than those guys.

And today's pgs are far better shooters.

And I just don't think the bigs of 2003 are as good of athletes as todays. B Griffin can jump out of the gym. Howard can outrun Shaq all day.

And K Love is a better shooter.
 
Today's pgs are just as good of rebounders and not that much worse of passers.

I guess 2003 had better defenders, but today's defenders aren't bad.

You underrate McGrady.  In his prime he could do anything he wanted on the offensive end. He had a very short prime, but prime McGrady was clearly better than todays Durant. He could get his shot whenever he wanted and there was nothing you could do about it and what made it crazier is that he didn't even seem to be trying. By the time he reached Houston he wasn't the same player so if that's the McGrady your thinking you already missed his best years.
You underrate Durant. He's not even in his prime yet (what is he, 23, 24???) and he dominates the league. Durant could shoot over the top of ANYBODY guarding him (excluding some bigs), but still drive strong and FINISH strong. At the moment, prime T-Mac is better than young Durant. I would wait a couple of years for Durant to reach HIS prime before making a comparison.


2000s > right now.

The next decade or so > 2000s.



early 2000s Tracy McGrady is same age Kevin Durant is now. Both are in their early 20s. Its a fair comparison.

Offline Eja117

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What it comes down to for me is that TMac is nowhere near the player Lebron and Durant are. And Kobe at his best is just not that much better than those guys.

And today's pgs are far better shooters.

And I just don't think the bigs of 2003 are as good of athletes as todays. B Griffin can jump out of the gym. Howard can outrun Shaq all day.

And K Love is a better shooter.
 
Today's pgs are just as good of rebounders and not that much worse of passers.

I guess 2003 had better defenders, but today's defenders aren't bad.

You underrate McGrady.  In his prime he could do anything he wanted on the offensive end. He had a very short prime, but prime McGrady was clearly better than todays Durant. He could get his shot whenever he wanted and there was nothing you could do about it and what made it crazier is that he didn't even seem to be trying. By the time he reached Houston he wasn't the same player so if that's the McGrady your thinking you already missed his best years.
Durant has the far better shooting %, and more rebs, and more blocks.

The wings of that era (excluding Kobe) were just poor shooting, defense neglecting, dunk contest contestants. Vince Carter? Come on.

Offline ManUp

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What it comes down to for me is that TMac is nowhere near the player Lebron and Durant are. And Kobe at his best is just not that much better than those guys.

And today's pgs are far better shooters.

And I just don't think the bigs of 2003 are as good of athletes as todays. B Griffin can jump out of the gym. Howard can outrun Shaq all day.

And K Love is a better shooter.
 
Today's pgs are just as good of rebounders and not that much worse of passers.

I guess 2003 had better defenders, but today's defenders aren't bad.

You underrate McGrady.  In his prime he could do anything he wanted on the offensive end. He had a very short prime, but prime McGrady was clearly better than todays Durant. He could get his shot whenever he wanted and there was nothing you could do about it and what made it crazier is that he didn't even seem to be trying. By the time he reached Houston he wasn't the same player so if that's the McGrady your thinking you already missed his best years.
Durant has the far better shooting %, and more rebs, and more blocks.

The wings of that era (excluding Kobe) were just poor shooting, defense neglecting, dunk contest contestants. Vince Carter? Come on.

Durant is a 6'10 (seems taller) small forward McGrady was a 6'8 shooting guard. This is Durants fifth season checkout McGrady's fifth season statistically. Durant beats him in scoring by 2 points but McGrady averages 2 more assists basically the same production(blk/stls/rebs) the rest of the way. Also consider the second best player on that team was Juan Howard.

I personally attribute the percentage increase to the change in hand checking rules. Today if you get a guy by half a step he's beat, with handchecking he holds you a little bit to get back in front. 2000 players took a lot more jumpers because driving the lane wasn't as easy. Most high caliber scorers today have higher shooting percentages (especially point guards).
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 07:07:34 PM by ManUp »

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What it comes down to for me is that TMac is nowhere near the player Lebron and Durant are. And Kobe at his best is just not that much better than those guys.

And today's pgs are far better shooters.

And I just don't think the bigs of 2003 are as good of athletes as todays. B Griffin can jump out of the gym. Howard can outrun Shaq all day.

And K Love is a better shooter.
 
Today's pgs are just as good of rebounders and not that much worse of passers.

I guess 2003 had better defenders, but today's defenders aren't bad.

You underrate McGrady.  In his prime he could do anything he wanted on the offensive end. He had a very short prime, but prime McGrady was clearly better than todays Durant. He could get his shot whenever he wanted and there was nothing you could do about it and what made it crazier is that he didn't even seem to be trying. By the time he reached Houston he wasn't the same player so if that's the McGrady your thinking you already missed his best years.
Durant has the far better shooting %, and more rebs, and more blocks.

The wings of that era (excluding Kobe) were just poor shooting, defense neglecting, dunk contest contestants. Vince Carter? Come on.

I chuckled! Putting Durant and Defense same sentence. Oops I'm guilty of it now, but I assure you it wasn't intentional.

I think exaggerating this era isn't as flashy as that era was. Vince Carter points didn't all come from dunks. Griffin probably has more dunks in past 30 games than Vince Carter Career. What about Lebron and Wade pounding their chest every other play?

I don't remember Paul Pierce flashy dunks, or Ray Allen's posters. Was Peja Stojakovic posterizing people back then too? How about Michael Finley, Jerry Stackhouse, and Richard Hamilton?? I think Kobe and McGrady had few posters. I guess they're guilty of being too flashy

Offline ManUp

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What it comes down to for me is that TMac is nowhere near the player Lebron and Durant are. And Kobe at his best is just not that much better than those guys.

And today's pgs are far better shooters.

And I just don't think the bigs of 2003 are as good of athletes as todays. B Griffin can jump out of the gym. Howard can outrun Shaq all day.

And K Love is a better shooter.
 
Today's pgs are just as good of rebounders and not that much worse of passers.

I guess 2003 had better defenders, but today's defenders aren't bad.

You underrate McGrady.  In his prime he could do anything he wanted on the offensive end. He had a very short prime, but prime McGrady was clearly better than todays Durant. He could get his shot whenever he wanted and there was nothing you could do about it and what made it crazier is that he didn't even seem to be trying. By the time he reached Houston he wasn't the same player so if that's the McGrady your thinking you already missed his best years.
You underrate Durant. He's not even in his prime yet (what is he, 23, 24???) and he dominates the league. Durant could shoot over the top of ANYBODY guarding him (excluding some bigs), but still drive strong and FINISH strong. At the moment, prime T-Mac is better than young Durant. I would wait a couple of years for Durant to reach HIS prime before making a comparison.


2000s > right now.

The next decade or so > 2000s.



I was very careful to say todays Durant.

McGrady's prime was ended by injuries, Durant will more than likely have a better career if he stays healthy.

He already has a better supporting cast than McGrady ever had.

Offline nickagneta

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Actually I don't think there's an era in the NBA that can compare to the top level talent that was prime in the 80's

Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Kevin McHale
Robert Parish
Kareem Abdul Jabbar(old but still prime)
James Worthy
Bernard King
Isiah Thomas
Joe Dumars
Dennis Rodman
Moses Malone
Julius Erving
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwan
Charles Barkley
John Stockton
Michael Cooper
Clyde Drexler
George Gervin
Adrian Dantley
Alex English
Ralph Sampson
Patrick Ewing
Charles Oakley
Terry Cummings
Marques Johnson
Dennis Johnson
Booby Jones
Sidney Moncreif
Maurice Cheeks
Dominique Wilkins
Alvin Robertson
Artis Gilmore
Fat Lever
Paul Pressey

...and the list goes on. And this was in a league with a lot less teams and each team having 2 outstanding players and the championship teams having 3-4 future Hall of Famers each. yet These players produced like no other even while facing tougher competition on a nightly basis than teams in the 90's 00's or today.

The 70's the league was watered down due to the ABA and because drugs wrecked the players. The 1960's the color line was just integrating and the game was in its infancy. Too many teams were populated with slow, big, bruising Caucasian players without a lot of basketball ability but a ton toughness. These players beat the heck out of each other, fights were common and having an enforcer or two on the team was a necessity.

1980's: Best era in NBA history with the best talent hands down.

Offline Eja117

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Actually I don't think there's an era in the NBA that can compare to the top level talent that was prime in the 80's

Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Kevin McHale
Robert Parish
Kareem Abdul Jabbar(old but still prime)
James Worthy
Bernard King
Isiah Thomas
Joe Dumars
Dennis Rodman
Moses Malone
Julius Erving
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwan
Charles Barkley
John Stockton
Michael Cooper
Clyde Drexler
George Gervin
Adrian Dantley
Alex English
Ralph Sampson
Patrick Ewing
Charles Oakley
Terry Cummings
Marques Johnson
Dennis Johnson
Booby Jones
Sidney Moncreif
Maurice Cheeks
Dominique Wilkins
Alvin Robertson
Artis Gilmore
Fat Lever
Paul Pressey

...and the list goes on. And this was in a league with a lot less teams and each team having 2 outstanding players and the championship teams having 3-4 future Hall of Famers each. yet These players produced like no other even while facing tougher competition on a nightly basis than teams in the 90's 00's or today.

The 70's the league was watered down due to the ABA and because drugs wrecked the players. The 1960's the color line was just integrating and the game was in its infancy. Too many teams were populated with slow, big, bruising Caucasian players without a lot of basketball ability but a ton toughness. These players beat the heck out of each other, fights were common and having an enforcer or two on the team was a necessity.

1980's: Best era in NBA history with the best talent hands down.
amen to that