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Celtics
55 (45.5%)
Knicks
24 (19.8%)
Nets
24 (19.8%)
Clippers
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Other
12 (9.9%)

Total Members Voted: 120

Author Topic: The Kyrie Irving free agency thread(to sign 4yr/$141M w/Nets page 105)  (Read 145339 times)

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Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #120 on: March 25, 2019, 12:18:31 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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More I think about it, Boston has 2 options here...

First will be to tether themselves to Kyrie and move out most of the picks and young players for Davis. I think this is what Kyrie wants (and will demand in return for staying) and this is what Ainge wants. Most likely Tatum, Rozier and others will not be here next season leaving a vet heavy team in Kyrie, AD, Al, Smart and Hayward.
This might improve chemistry, but I have my doubts Brad Stevens can coach this kind of team.

Second is not resigning Kyrie, letting Mook walk, resigning Rozier and using the picks to get even younger. Horford opts in. This would give you a young team where the youth is the majority. Only Al, Hayward and Smart would be older guys. Tatum and Brown would be the focal points. Plus you could have 3 first round picks. This would be where Stevens would excel. Young team like college.

Option 1 will bring home a championship

Option 2 will be a series of exciting-to-watch playoff exits.
Don’t see option 1 as viable. Kyrie and Stevens don’t see eye to eye. Ainge will have to choose one if Kyrie wants to resign... I think at this point Kyrie has checked out and ( expect him to play hard in the playoffs though ) he is trying to figure where he wants to be.

"Kyrie and Stevens dont' see eye to eye.  Ainge will have to choose one if Kyrie wants to resign" and that's based on what?

And as for as him "checking out", he's putting up 26.2 pts, 8.2 asts, 6.4 rbs, and 1.7 stls over his last 9 games. That's just silly.
I did state in the brackets that I expect him to play hard in the playoffs - Implying the rest of the season... no one here questions his work ethic or his talent... what people question is his impact on wining (or whining lol)

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #121 on: March 25, 2019, 12:25:31 PM »

Offline td450

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I ultimately don't think Kyrie is the player we need to win a championship, but the fans need to accept that the team has had a number of smaller failures that have just added up to a bigger disappointment. I think we could have done a few things strategically to be better, and Kyrie could have been willing to adapt to the team's makeup quite a bit better, but we were in trouble this year, regardless.

Hayward just hasn't been anything other than a non-starting rotation level player.
Horford hasn't had a great year and can't be relied on every game.
Likewise, Baynes has missed a lot of games with injuries and can't maintain his role.
Tatum isn't what we thought he was.
Morris surged early, but has regressed to being the borderline starter he's always been
Brown slumped early, and the team has struggled to establish a consistent role for him.
Rozier was handed a diminished role and has handled it badly.


The net result is there is no one established in a reliable scoring role for this team except Kyrie. The expectation was that Tatum would be that guy, and that Hayward would be getting there by now. Both guys have been big disappointments.

For their part, Ainge and Stevens could have had better years too. Ainge should have cared about roles more, and moved Morris and Rozier.

Stevens should demand that the team to play faster and move the ball more consistently. I also just don't understand what he is doing with Jaylen Brown. He's the only one on the roster right now who looks like he should be doing more. Try him as the second option and see what happens.





 

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #122 on: March 25, 2019, 12:26:14 PM »

Offline RJ87

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More I think about it, Boston has 2 options here...

First will be to tether themselves to Kyrie and move out most of the picks and young players for Davis. I think this is what Kyrie wants (and will demand in return for staying) and this is what Ainge wants. Most likely Tatum, Rozier and others will not be here next season leaving a vet heavy team in Kyrie, AD, Al, Smart and Hayward.
This might improve chemistry, but I have my doubts Brad Stevens can coach this kind of team.

Second is not resigning Kyrie, letting Mook walk, resigning Rozier and using the picks to get even younger. Horford opts in. This would give you a young team where the youth is the majority. Only Al, Hayward and Smart would be older guys. Tatum and Brown would be the focal points. Plus you could have 3 first round picks. This would be where Stevens would excel. Young team like college.

Option 1 will bring home a championship

Option 2 will be a series of exciting-to-watch playoff exits.
Don’t see option 1 as viable. Kyrie and Stevens don’t see eye to eye. Ainge will have to choose one if Kyrie wants to resign... I think at this point Kyrie has checked out and ( expect him to play hard in the playoffs though ) he is trying to figure where he wants to be.

"Kyrie and Stevens dont' see eye to eye.  Ainge will have to choose one if Kyrie wants to resign" and that's based on what?

And as for as him "checking out", he's putting up 26.2 pts, 8.2 asts, 6.4 rbs, and 1.7 stls over his last 9 games. That's just silly.
I did state in the brackets that I expect him to play hard in the playoffs - Implying the rest of the season... no one here questions his work ethic or his talent... what people question is his impact on wining (or whining lol)

You literally just said he's checked out.

Meanwhile, no one holds these other guys accountable. Tatum's 3 pt shot as disappeared since the ASB (Giannis has a better 3 pt shots than him in the last 10 or so games) and Gordon + Al are in and out of the lineup. I suppose it's also his fault Marcus got ejected from the Philly game.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #123 on: March 25, 2019, 01:10:28 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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More I think about it, Boston has 2 options here...

First will be to tether themselves to Kyrie and move out most of the picks and young players for Davis. I think this is what Kyrie wants (and will demand in return for staying) and this is what Ainge wants. Most likely Tatum, Rozier and others will not be here next season leaving a vet heavy team in Kyrie, AD, Al, Smart and Hayward.
This might improve chemistry, but I have my doubts Brad Stevens can coach this kind of team.

Second is not resigning Kyrie, letting Mook walk, resigning Rozier and using the picks to get even younger. Horford opts in. This would give you a young team where the youth is the majority. Only Al, Hayward and Smart would be older guys. Tatum and Brown would be the focal points. Plus you could have 3 first round picks. This would be where Stevens would excel. Young team like college.

Option 1 will bring home a championship

Option 2 will be a series of exciting-to-watch playoff exits.
Don’t see option 1 as viable. Kyrie and Stevens don’t see eye to eye. Ainge will have to choose one if Kyrie wants to resign... I think at this point Kyrie has checked out and ( expect him to play hard in the playoffs though ) he is trying to figure where he wants to be.

"Kyrie and Stevens dont' see eye to eye.  Ainge will have to choose one if Kyrie wants to resign" and that's based on what?

And as for as him "checking out", he's putting up 26.2 pts, 8.2 asts, 6.4 rbs, and 1.7 stls over his last 9 games. That's just silly.
I did state in the brackets that I expect him to play hard in the playoffs - Implying the rest of the season... no one here questions his work ethic or his talent... what people question is his impact on wining (or whining lol)

You literally just said he's checked out.

Meanwhile, no one holds these other guys accountable. Tatum's 3 pt shot as disappeared since the ASB (Giannis has a better 3 pt shots than him in the last 10 or so games) and Gordon + Al are in and out of the lineup. I suppose it's also his fault Marcus got ejected from the Philly game.
Kyrie seems checked out but he is still professional and plays hard. Lebron was checked out last year from the cavs organization but still dragged them to the finals where he averaged a triple double.

Most people don’t have the time to analyze every single thing that contributes to losing games or the product on the court.. most people pick one or two things.
When a company stock price drops - usually the CEO takes the blame.
With basketball only 9-11 guys are in the rotation so the best player on the team is an easy pick when analyzing what is wrong with the team 🤷🏻‍♂️

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #124 on: March 25, 2019, 01:25:37 PM »

Offline RJ87

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More I think about it, Boston has 2 options here...

First will be to tether themselves to Kyrie and move out most of the picks and young players for Davis. I think this is what Kyrie wants (and will demand in return for staying) and this is what Ainge wants. Most likely Tatum, Rozier and others will not be here next season leaving a vet heavy team in Kyrie, AD, Al, Smart and Hayward.
This might improve chemistry, but I have my doubts Brad Stevens can coach this kind of team.

Second is not resigning Kyrie, letting Mook walk, resigning Rozier and using the picks to get even younger. Horford opts in. This would give you a young team where the youth is the majority. Only Al, Hayward and Smart would be older guys. Tatum and Brown would be the focal points. Plus you could have 3 first round picks. This would be where Stevens would excel. Young team like college.

Option 1 will bring home a championship

Option 2 will be a series of exciting-to-watch playoff exits.
Don’t see option 1 as viable. Kyrie and Stevens don’t see eye to eye. Ainge will have to choose one if Kyrie wants to resign... I think at this point Kyrie has checked out and ( expect him to play hard in the playoffs though ) he is trying to figure where he wants to be.

"Kyrie and Stevens dont' see eye to eye.  Ainge will have to choose one if Kyrie wants to resign" and that's based on what?

And as for as him "checking out", he's putting up 26.2 pts, 8.2 asts, 6.4 rbs, and 1.7 stls over his last 9 games. That's just silly.
I did state in the brackets that I expect him to play hard in the playoffs - Implying the rest of the season... no one here questions his work ethic or his talent... what people question is his impact on wining (or whining lol)

You literally just said he's checked out.

Meanwhile, no one holds these other guys accountable. Tatum's 3 pt shot as disappeared since the ASB (Giannis has a better 3 pt shots than him in the last 10 or so games) and Gordon + Al are in and out of the lineup. I suppose it's also his fault Marcus got ejected from the Philly game.
Kyrie seems checked out but he is still professional and plays hard. Lebron was checked out last year from the cavs organization but still dragged them to the finals where he averaged a triple double.

Most people don’t have the time to analyze every single thing that contributes to losing games or the product on the court.. most people pick one or two things.
When a company stock price drops - usually the CEO takes the blame.
With basketball only 9-11 guys are in the rotation so the best player on the team is an easy pick when analyzing what is wrong with the team 🤷🏻‍♂️

Trust me, a lot of heads roll before the CEO takes the hit.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #125 on: March 25, 2019, 01:46:47 PM »

Offline gpap

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He’s 90% of the reason we struggle... the other 10% is basketball gods punishing Ainge for stealing Hayward from Utah and trading isiah .... also not trading for Paul George when he demanded a trade must be eating Danny inside

Sorry, but if I had the chance, I would make that Kyrie/Isaiah trade all over again in the blink of an eye.

The whole point of rebuilding the team was to eventually acquire a superstar the caliber of Kyrie and pairing him up with another superstar in Gordon Hayward.

It hasn't worked so far, but that trade was still a no-brainer.

I am still surprised people are on Kyrie's case but give Hayward a pass. He hasn't played well at all this year, minus a handful of games and is getting paid $30mil/year over 3 years (plus his player option for another 30 mil.) Nice gig if you can find it.



Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #126 on: March 25, 2019, 01:57:16 PM »

Offline Triplenickle

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You know what? If Smart was the actual point it would solve so many problems this team has. I'm dead serious.

It would fix the lineup and we could actually play BIG.

Then we go after a big with that salary spot, because we all know Gordon ain't going anywhere.

Develope our picks and keep it moving.

But who am I kidding though...Danny has a trade-gambling problem :)

Smart, JB, Tatum, Al, Baynes.   Maaaan....
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 02:04:00 PM by Triplenickle »

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #127 on: March 25, 2019, 02:03:37 PM »

Offline gpap

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You know what? If Smart was the actual point it would solve so many problems this team has. I'm dead serious.

Then we go after a big with that salary spot, because we all know Gordon ain't going anywhere.

Develope our picks and keep it moving.

But who am I kidding though...Danny has a trade-gambling problem :)

Not really.

This "trader Danny" reputation is a myth. Ainge is actually alot more gun shy than people make him out to be. The last meaningful trade he made was getting Kyrie and that was back in August 2017. Since then, he hasn't done anything.

Go back to the big 3 era with KG. After he acquired KG and Ray in the summer of 2007, do you know how many trades Ainge made between 2007 and when the big 3 era ended in 2013? Two...only 2 trades in 6 years. Eddie House for Nate and Perk/Nate for Krstic/Green/1st rounder.

If anything, alot of times Ainge isn't aggressive enough and is always "looking to the future."

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #128 on: March 25, 2019, 02:12:50 PM »

Offline gpap

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He’s 90% of the reason we struggle... the other 10% is basketball gods punishing Ainge for stealing Hayward from Utah and trading isiah .... also not trading for Paul George when he demanded a trade must be eating Danny inside

Paul george doesn't really do it for me, but I agree with the rest and acting like Crowder was the bad guy or something. I've seen that too many times with Danny.

I bet Jayson and JB become the bad guy now along with Morris and Terry to justify what he's getting ready to do.

I have a bad feeling about this team's future right now for many reasons.

Danny has never understood chemistry, or doesn't think it even matters.

Paul George has had an incredible season in OKC and it's possible he wins MVP.

If he doesn't "do it for you" then I don't know who will?

And no one said anything about Crowder being the "bad guy." He was nothing more than a cry baby when he was moaning about the fans cheering for Hayward that night when Utah came to Boston. If anything, he made a fool of himself.

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #129 on: March 25, 2019, 02:14:47 PM »

Offline ozgod

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I ultimately don't think Kyrie is the player we need to win a championship, but the fans need to accept that the team has had a number of smaller failures that have just added up to a bigger disappointment. I think we could have done a few things strategically to be better, and Kyrie could have been willing to adapt to the team's makeup quite a bit better, but we were in trouble this year, regardless.

Hayward just hasn't been anything other than a non-starting rotation level player.
Horford hasn't had a great year and can't be relied on every game.
Likewise, Baynes has missed a lot of games with injuries and can't maintain his role.
Tatum isn't what we thought he was.
Morris surged early, but has regressed to being the borderline starter he's always been
Brown slumped early, and the team has struggled to establish a consistent role for him.
Rozier was handed a diminished role and has handled it badly.


The net result is there is no one established in a reliable scoring role for this team except Kyrie. The expectation was that Tatum would be that guy, and that Hayward would be getting there by now. Both guys have been big disappointments.

For their part, Ainge and Stevens could have had better years too. Ainge should have cared about roles more, and moved Morris and Rozier.

Stevens should demand that the team to play faster and move the ball more consistently. I also just don't understand what he is doing with Jaylen Brown. He's the only one on the roster right now who looks like he should be doing more. Try him as the second option and see what happens.

TP for those astute points. All those players you mentioned need to take responsibility for their own poor and inadequate performances.I don't understand why Kyrie is being blamed for those things. The main thing I blame Kyrie for is a failure to lead and motivate. Obviously that's an important piece and he's fallen short of what we expect a leader to be. The hope is he learns from it and realizes that to be a leader of men you need to be able to inspire them to perform at their best - it's not just talk, not always just leading by example, you have to get them to want to run through a brick wall for you. But end of day he's really the only guy who is consistently generating production, both in points and assists, day in day out.

But everything else - Tatum shooting 20% from 3 in the past month or two, Jaylen and Gordon's struggle the first half of the season, Al's knee problems, Rozier's lack of humility and inability to deal with a bench role, Mook regressing to becoming his baseline level, lackadaisical defense (or rather defense only when they choose to defend - those players have to take responsibility for those failings. Baynes injured practically half the season surely we can't blame Kyrie for that.  :angel:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #130 on: March 25, 2019, 02:15:06 PM »

Offline Triplenickle

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You know what? If Smart was the actual point it would solve so many problems this team has. I'm dead serious.

Then we go after a big with that salary spot, because we all know Gordon ain't going anywhere.

Develope our picks and keep it moving.

But who am I kidding though...Danny has a trade-gambling problem :)

Not really.

This "trader Danny" reputation is a myth. Ainge is actually alot more gun shy than people make him out to be. The last meaningful trade he made was getting Kyrie and that was back in August 2017. Since then, he hasn't done anything.

Go back to the big 3 era with KG. After he acquired KG and Ray in the summer of 2007, do you know how many trades Ainge made between 2007 and when the big 3 era ended in 2013? Two...only 2 trades in 6 years. Eddie House for Nate and Perk/Nate for Krstic/Green/1st rounder.

If anything, alot of times Ainge isn't aggressive enough and is always "looking to the future."

I know :) Sometimes I post anti-Danny stuff and chuckle, because if he read it he would be like "****, I haven't even done anything"

But still though, when he does get in trader mode...he usually gets rid of either the best thing about the team, or a player that has too many intangibles that he doesn't care about.

And he ends up chasing his tail.  And let's face it...it's the reason why we have too many wings.

But man...Smart has transformed himself into a quality starting point guard with the defense to match. And since he can play other spots i'm sure it'll look alot better to the rest of the team.

He really is the true leader of the team, too...so he should lead at the point.

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #131 on: March 25, 2019, 02:21:04 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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You know what? If Smart was the actual point it would solve so many problems this team has. I'm dead serious.

Then we go after a big with that salary spot, because we all know Gordon ain't going anywhere.

Develope our picks and keep it moving.

But who am I kidding though...Danny has a trade-gambling problem :)

Not really.

This "trader Danny" reputation is a myth. Ainge is actually alot more gun shy than people make him out to be. The last meaningful trade he made was getting Kyrie and that was back in August 2017. Since then, he hasn't done anything.

Go back to the big 3 era with KG. After he acquired KG and Ray in the summer of 2007, do you know how many trades Ainge made between 2007 and when the big 3 era ended in 2013? Two...only 2 trades in 6 years. Eddie House for Nate and Perk/Nate for Krstic/Green/1st rounder.

If anything, alot of times Ainge isn't aggressive enough and is always "looking to the future."

We've been "looking to the future" since winning 2008. This team needs to WIN NOW and forget the future. How many more "look to the future" are we gonna keep hearing? By then it'll probably exceed our 22-year drought. When that future comes, worry about it later.


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #132 on: March 25, 2019, 02:24:25 PM »

Offline gpap

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You know what? If Smart was the actual point it would solve so many problems this team has. I'm dead serious.

Then we go after a big with that salary spot, because we all know Gordon ain't going anywhere.

Develope our picks and keep it moving.

But who am I kidding though...Danny has a trade-gambling problem :)

Not really.

This "trader Danny" reputation is a myth. Ainge is actually alot more gun shy than people make him out to be. The last meaningful trade he made was getting Kyrie and that was back in August 2017. Since then, he hasn't done anything.

Go back to the big 3 era with KG. After he acquired KG and Ray in the summer of 2007, do you know how many trades Ainge made between 2007 and when the big 3 era ended in 2013? Two...only 2 trades in 6 years. Eddie House for Nate and Perk/Nate for Krstic/Green/1st rounder.

If anything, alot of times Ainge isn't aggressive enough and is always "looking to the future."

We've been "looking to the future" since winning 2008. This team needs to WIN NOW and forget the future. How many more "look to the future" are we gonna keep hearing? By then it'll probably exceed our 22-year drought. When that future comes, worry about it later.

Exactly. With that mentality, we could be talking decades before the Celts even sniff another title.

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #133 on: March 25, 2019, 02:25:45 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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You know what? If Smart was the actual point it would solve so many problems this team has. I'm dead serious.

Then we go after a big with that salary spot, because we all know Gordon ain't going anywhere.

Develope our picks and keep it moving.

But who am I kidding though...Danny has a trade-gambling problem :)

Not really.

This "trader Danny" reputation is a myth. Ainge is actually alot more gun shy than people make him out to be. The last meaningful trade he made was getting Kyrie and that was back in August 2017. Since then, he hasn't done anything.

Go back to the big 3 era with KG. After he acquired KG and Ray in the summer of 2007, do you know how many trades Ainge made between 2007 and when the big 3 era ended in 2013? Two...only 2 trades in 6 years. Eddie House for Nate and Perk/Nate for Krstic/Green/1st rounder.

If anything, alot of times Ainge isn't aggressive enough and is always "looking to the future."

We've been "looking to the future" since winning 2008. This team needs to WIN NOW and forget the future. How many more "look to the future" are we gonna keep hearing? By then it'll probably exceed our 22-year drought. When that future comes, worry about it later.
Agree in retrospect Ainge should have traded for Butler and George in the summer of 2017 to pair them with Kyrie , Hayward and Horford. I think at that point in time it would have taken brown and filler for George and number 3 pick (or a swap) for butler. He didn’t do those moves but given how weak the Eastern Conference has been we would probably make the finals last year even with the injuries we had

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #134 on: March 25, 2019, 02:33:23 PM »

Offline Triplenickle

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You know what? If Smart was the actual point it would solve so many problems this team has. I'm dead serious.

Then we go after a big with that salary spot, because we all know Gordon ain't going anywhere.

Develope our picks and keep it moving.

But who am I kidding though...Danny has a trade-gambling problem :)

Not really.

This "trader Danny" reputation is a myth. Ainge is actually alot more gun shy than people make him out to be. The last meaningful trade he made was getting Kyrie and that was back in August 2017. Since then, he hasn't done anything.

Go back to the big 3 era with KG. After he acquired KG and Ray in the summer of 2007, do you know how many trades Ainge made between 2007 and when the big 3 era ended in 2013? Two...only 2 trades in 6 years. Eddie House for Nate and Perk/Nate for Krstic/Green/1st rounder.

If anything, alot of times Ainge isn't aggressive enough and is always "looking to the future."

We've been "looking to the future" since winning 2008. This team needs to WIN NOW and forget the future. How many more "look to the future" are we gonna keep hearing? By then it'll probably exceed our 22-year drought. When that future comes, worry about it later.

This is Jayson and JB's 2nd and 3rd year...come on man...we still haven't gotten our starting young center yet, which I was hoping was Williams and we still have picks.

Kyrie fell out the sky and everyone's expectations changed, not the team. No one is gonna grab some players in the offseason and get a ring...I don't know why this fanbase thinks that. We used to have more wisdom than that.

Yall didn't even give these guys 3 years, and even then keep putting players ahead of them that stopped their developement.

I just don't get it. And once again...Danny keeps getting the wrong pieces and not what we needed.

Instead of Kyrie he should of went for a center, or even a traditional power forward.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 02:38:40 PM by Triplenickle »