Author Topic: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”  (Read 8052 times)

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Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2019, 12:17:45 AM »

Offline saltlover

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After hearing Marcus’ comments I worry again about this year. I don’t see how the pieces fit together any better than they did last year, and you’ll have Jaylen (the one guy who did figure it out) going into a contract year and wanting to show he can create, while Jayson wants to be an all-star and his clearest path is by scoring a lot. Both of them will be playing next to Kemba (all-NBA scorer) and Hayward (former 20+ ppg all-star with something to prove). Even if Enes is content getting his points in the pick and roll and converting offensive rebounds (is he?), I’m not sure how it works out better than last year. And did I mention  we drafted a score-first wing with our late-lottery pick?

I’m frankly surprised you wouldn’t think the pieces fit a little better with Rozier gone, and I’d add Morris into that bucket as well.

Rozier was not the problem.

He wasn’t THE problem.  I’m a Rozier fan, but he was part of the problem.

Quote
Jay King
@ByJayKing
Danny Ainge said the Celtics thought Marcus Smart’s injury was a hip pointer until MRI yesterday: “That’s a bummer.”

Joked: “Maybe Terry will have some fun now.”
11:16 AM · Apr 11, 2019

He was clearly unhappy with his role all year, and that carried over into his play on the court.  Now, I think he was deservedly unhappy, but the point remains that he was a bad fit on last year’s team.

Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2019, 12:27:45 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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It was a case of too many good players and not enough great ones.

Celts had 7 players last season who deserved to be starters.

But only 5 can start a basketball game.

The 2008 Celtics won a championship because players know their roles.

Last season's Celtics was like a tryout, players trying to prove they deserve more minutes and shots.

And who allowed that to fester?

Well I think Marcus would answer that they all did.  If you’ve ever engaged in group dysfunction there is usually blame enough for all.  If you are getting at the idea that there is more responsibility for the dysfunction, or the maintaining of the dysfunction, on some than others, that’s likely true.  But I think Marcus is maturely and “functionally” saying that all involved played a role and all involved need to play a role in making it better.  Either lessons were learned or they weren’t — time will tell. Changes in roster may help but if the players and coaches haven’t been introspective and analytical about last season they could be destined to repeat the dysfunction.  Dwelling on blame probably is precisely what not to do.

Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2019, 12:47:17 AM »

Offline ozgod

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It was a case of too many good players and not enough great ones.

Celts had 7 players last season who deserved to be starters.

But only 5 can start a basketball game.

The 2008 Celtics won a championship because players know their roles.

Last season's Celtics was like a tryout, players trying to prove they deserve more minutes and shots.

And who allowed that to fester?

Well I think Marcus would answer that they all did.  If you’ve ever engaged in group dysfunction there is usually blame enough for all.  If you are getting at the idea that there is more responsibility for the dysfunction, or the maintaining of the dysfunction, on some than others, that’s likely true.  But I think Marcus is maturely and “functionally” saying that all involved played a role and all involved need to play a role in making it better.  Either lessons were learned or they weren’t — time will tell. Changes in roster may help but if the players and coaches haven’t been introspective and analytical about last season they could be destined to repeat the dysfunction.  Dwelling on blame probably is precisely what not to do.

It's a systemic failure on multiple levels. Anyone who has worked for a bad, dysfunctional company with backstabbing co-workers and bosses struggling to control it all will know that there's usually not one person at fault, but a cascading series of problems. It's way too simplistic to scapegoat any one person. Obviously people in leadership positions take the majority of the blame, but that doesn't give the other guys a pass, and more importantly they shouldn't give themselves a pass and blame just their leaders for the failure. Everyone has to look in the mirror and say, that guy in the mirror contributed to this Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.up and how can I be better this year?
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2019, 12:56:36 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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It was a case of too many good players and not enough great ones.

Celts had 7 players last season who deserved to be starters.

But only 5 can start a basketball game.

The 2008 Celtics won a championship because players know their roles.

Last season's Celtics was like a tryout, players trying to prove they deserve more minutes and shots.

And who allowed that to fester?

Well I think Marcus would answer that they all did.  If you’ve ever engaged in group dysfunction there is usually blame enough for all.  If you are getting at the idea that there is more responsibility for the dysfunction, or the maintaining of the dysfunction, on some than others, that’s likely true.  But I think Marcus is maturely and “functionally” saying that all involved played a role and all involved need to play a role in making it better.  Either lessons were learned or they weren’t — time will tell. Changes in roster may help but if the players and coaches haven’t been introspective and analytical about last season they could be destined to repeat the dysfunction.  Dwelling on blame probably is precisely what not to do.

It's a systemic failure on multiple levels. Anyone who has worked for a bad, dysfunctional company with backstabbing co-workers and bosses struggling to control it all will know that there's usually not one person at fault, but a cascading series of problems. It's way too simplistic to scapegoat any one person. Obviously people in leadership positions take the majority of the blame, but that doesn't give the other guys a pass, and more importantly they shouldn't give themselves a pass and blame just their leaders for the failure. Everyone has to look in the mirror and say, that guy in the mirror contributed to this ****up and how can I be better this year?

so that Boston team last year never had a chance. Total dysfunction caused by the malcontent. Glad he is gone. Bad signing in retrospect. I sounded the alarm when he did not attend some of the games when he was injured during the playoffs, but people did not agree. He sure proved them wrong.

Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2019, 01:32:26 AM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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After hearing Marcus’ comments I worry again about this year. I don’t see how the pieces fit together any better than they did last year, and you’ll have Jaylen (the one guy who did figure it out) going into a contract year and wanting to show he can create, while Jayson wants to be an all-star and his clearest path is by scoring a lot. Both of them will be playing next to Kemba (all-NBA scorer) and Hayward (former 20+ ppg all-star with something to prove). Even if Enes is content getting his points in the pick and roll and converting offensive rebounds (is he?), I’m not sure how it works out better than last year. And did I mention  we drafted a score-first wing with our late-lottery pick?

I’m frankly surprised you wouldn’t think the pieces fit a little better with Rozier gone, and I’d add Morris into that bucket as well.

Rozier was not the problem.

No one was "the" problem, but Rozier was certainly "a" problem, along with some others.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

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Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2019, 06:30:34 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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After hearing Marcus’ comments I worry again about this year. I don’t see how the pieces fit together any better than they did last year, and you’ll have Jaylen (the one guy who did figure it out) going into a contract year and wanting to show he can create, while Jayson wants to be an all-star and his clearest path is by scoring a lot. Both of them will be playing next to Kemba (all-NBA scorer) and Hayward (former 20+ ppg all-star with something to prove). Even if Enes is content getting his points in the pick and roll and converting offensive rebounds (is he?), I’m not sure how it works out better than last year. And did I mention  we drafted a score-first wing with our late-lottery pick?

I’m frankly surprised you wouldn’t think the pieces fit a little better with Rozier gone, and I’d add Morris into that bucket as well.

I certainly *hope* they will fit better, and I agree that including Rozier and Morris made it harder, but after last year I’m still wondering how the guys who are left will be able to complement each other.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 08:45:30 AM by Sophomore »

Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2019, 09:18:11 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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Is it possible not to love Marcus?   Though he is still volatile on the court and will probably go too far once or twice next year, this guy really is rounding into an interesting, thoughtful adult.  It's crazy that he is only 25. He has tremendous leadership qualities and I've got to believe he is a great teammate. I think he handled the questions well and he gave a very balanced acknowledgement of the team's dysfunction along with respect and praise for his teammates.   I love that he said that the guys all liked each other off the court -- but that they just couldn't adjust on the court.  Didn't sound blaming at all, either to Kyrie, the coaching staff, or anyone else.

Nicely done Marcus!  So glad he is a Celtic and hope we can keep that great spirit and great contract on this team for a long time.

   I had a completely opposite reaction. Smart says he was a great teammate to him. Who cares? He ruined the team. I think Smart is gonna be a problem. Jaylen has to start in front of him if Brad has any guts at all. Smart has tried bullying Jaylen in the past. Of course it’s my speculation but I think Smart wants there to be this view that other guys were responsible too ( Jaylen being one). I think he’s threatened. Saying he’s gonna be less passive? Nooo!!! Last year was just fine. Smart and Tatum to me are saying the wrong things.

Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2019, 09:21:00 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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TP to the OP for sharing this.

Is it possible not to love Marcus?   Though he is still volatile on the court and will probably go too far once or twice next year, this guy really is rounding into an interesting, thoughtful adult.  It's crazy that he is only 25. He has tremendous leadership qualities and I've got to believe he is a great teammate. I think he handled the questions well and he gave a very balanced acknowledgement of the team's dysfunction along with respect and praise for his teammates.   I love that he said that the guys all liked each other off the court -- but that they just couldn't adjust on the court.  Didn't sound blaming at all, either to Kyrie, the coaching staff, or anyone else.

Nicely done Marcus!  So glad he is a Celtic and hope we can keep that great spirit and great contract on this team for a long time.

I don't think I could say it any better. I'll just add two things:

1) I love his maturity and honesty here.
2) I'm glad he finally has a cool hairstyle. ;D

   I can’t believe people think he’s being honest. They all liked each other? People believe that?

Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2019, 10:10:01 AM »

Offline LilRip

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Is it possible not to love Marcus?   Though he is still volatile on the court and will probably go too far once or twice next year, this guy really is rounding into an interesting, thoughtful adult.  It's crazy that he is only 25. He has tremendous leadership qualities and I've got to believe he is a great teammate. I think he handled the questions well and he gave a very balanced acknowledgement of the team's dysfunction along with respect and praise for his teammates.   I love that he said that the guys all liked each other off the court -- but that they just couldn't adjust on the court.  Didn't sound blaming at all, either to Kyrie, the coaching staff, or anyone else.

Nicely done Marcus!  So glad he is a Celtic and hope we can keep that great spirit and great contract on this team for a long time.

   I had a completely opposite reaction. Smart says he was a great teammate to him. Who cares? He ruined the team. I think Smart is gonna be a problem. Jaylen has to start in front of him if Brad has any guts at all. Smart has tried bullying Jaylen in the past. Of course it’s my speculation but I think Smart wants there to be this view that other guys were responsible too ( Jaylen being one). I think he’s threatened. Saying he’s gonna be less passive? Nooo!!! Last year was just fine. Smart and Tatum to me are saying the wrong things.

Why does JB have to start in front of him? Outside of slashing and inside scoring, Jaylen is an inferior passer, playmaker, on ball/interior/help defender and I haven’t checked the stats but I’m assuming rebounding is a wash. 3pt shooting, it wouldn’t surprise me if the 2 are similar based on last year. Besides, with Kemba/Tatum/Hayward/Kanter, that is a starting lineup that’s already heavy on offense. I wouldn’t be surprised if Smart’s in the starting lineup because 1) he’s a low usage player, 2) he makes an impact in other areas of the game, and 3) he’s earned it.

And honestly, I can buy the narrative that not everything was Kyrie’s fault. I mean, at the very least it seems like Rozier was a chemistry problem as well (fwiw, I understand rozier’s frustration. Doesn’t make it right though. But I understand).
- LilRip

Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2019, 10:50:01 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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After hearing Marcus’ comments I worry again about this year. I don’t see how the pieces fit together any better than they did last year, and you’ll have Jaylen (the one guy who did figure it out) going into a contract year and wanting to show he can create, while Jayson wants to be an all-star and his clearest path is by scoring a lot. Both of them will be playing next to Kemba (all-NBA scorer) and Hayward (former 20+ ppg all-star with something to prove). Even if Enes is content getting his points in the pick and roll and converting offensive rebounds (is he?), I’m not sure how it works out better than last year. And did I mention  we drafted a score-first wing with our late-lottery pick?

I’m frankly surprised you wouldn’t think the pieces fit a little better with Rozier gone, and I’d add Morris into that bucket as well.

Rozier was not the problem.

No one was "the" problem, but Rozier was certainly "a" problem, along with some others.
Yes, Rozier, Morris, Horford and even Baynes were all taking plenty of shots.  I don't see the point of worrying about that particular aspect of this year's team.

Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2019, 11:37:45 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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It was a case of too many good players and not enough great ones.

Celts had 7 players last season who deserved to be starters.

But only 5 can start a basketball game.

The 2008 Celtics won a championship because players know their roles.

Last season's Celtics was like a tryout, players trying to prove they deserve more minutes and shots.
08 team had issues as well but Doc and the leaders on the team held it together. Cassell, Rondo, Posey, House, Ray and Tony all voiced issues at points with their roles. Things didn't fester though, once guys spoke up they moved on to their jobs. Of course after the season was done guys left. After a few years we even lost Ray. Players accepted roles more than they knew their roles.

Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2019, 05:08:55 AM »

Offline Big333223

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I know it goes against Brad's philosophy of team building, but Marcus should be made team captain.
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Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2019, 08:37:23 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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I know it goes against Brad's philosophy of team building, but Marcus should be made team captain.

  Please god. No.

Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2019, 08:38:40 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I know it goes against Brad's philosophy of team building, but Marcus should be made team captain.

  Please god. No.
Who else would it be? Or are you opposed to the idea of captains in general?
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
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Re: Smart on ‘The Jump’, “We were dysfunctional”
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2019, 09:26:56 AM »

Offline td450

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Is it possible not to love Marcus?   Though he is still volatile on the court and will probably go too far once or twice next year, this guy really is rounding into an interesting, thoughtful adult.  It's crazy that he is only 25. He has tremendous leadership qualities and I've got to believe he is a great teammate. I think he handled the questions well and he gave a very balanced acknowledgement of the team's dysfunction along with respect and praise for his teammates.   I love that he said that the guys all liked each other off the court -- but that they just couldn't adjust on the court.  Didn't sound blaming at all, either to Kyrie, the coaching staff, or anyone else.

Nicely done Marcus!  So glad he is a Celtic and hope we can keep that great spirit and great contract on this team for a long time.

   I had a completely opposite reaction. Smart says he was a great teammate to him. Who cares? He ruined the team. I think Smart is gonna be a problem. Jaylen has to start in front of him if Brad has any guts at all. Smart has tried bullying Jaylen in the past. Of course it’s my speculation but I think Smart wants there to be this view that other guys were responsible too ( Jaylen being one). I think he’s threatened. Saying he’s gonna be less passive? Nooo!!! Last year was just fine. Smart and Tatum to me are saying the wrong things.

Why does JB have to start in front of him? Outside of slashing and inside scoring, Jaylen is an inferior passer, playmaker, on ball/interior/help defender and I haven’t checked the stats but I’m assuming rebounding is a wash. 3pt shooting, it wouldn’t surprise me if the 2 are similar based on last year. Besides, with Kemba/Tatum/Hayward/Kanter, that is a starting lineup that’s already heavy on offense. I wouldn’t be surprised if Smart’s in the starting lineup because 1) he’s a low usage player, 2) he makes an impact in other areas of the game, and 3) he’s earned it.

And honestly, I can buy the narrative that not everything was Kyrie’s fault. I mean, at the very least it seems like Rozier was a chemistry problem as well (fwiw, I understand rozier’s frustration. Doesn’t make it right though. But I understand).
The differences between Jaylen and Marcus on offense are huge. Teams cheat heavily off Marcus, and while he has finally learned to be more selective shooting threes last year, that does make it tougher for the other players on the floor. He can't beat anyone off the dribble. Jaylen gets covered aggressively, and helps with spacing. He can finish his drives.

On defense, the difference between the two isn't that much. Marcus makes a lot of fun plays, but he isn't a pressure defender, because he isn't quick and explosive. Clever point guards that can shoot often light Marcus up, because he needs to give them some space. Jaylen covers more space on the perimeter than anyone in the league. He makes less of the eye-catching plays but his defensive impact overall isn't that far off what Marcus brings. He's just a better player overall.

If the C's didn't see him as a better player than Smart, they would have traded him by now.