Is Al Horford on the worst contact in the league

[Chief Macho]

Yeah. Its like watching an old man play.  I didn't pay attention to his career in Atlanta, but he sure as hell isn't the Horford I  remember. 

Wish they would have just saved that money.

[jpotter33]

First thing I'll say:

The Celts are 6th in Offensive Efficiency this year.

They are 4th in 3 pointers made per game.


Last year, the Celts were 13th in Offensive Efficiency.

They were 12th in 3 pointers made per game.


Al Horford does not get enough credit for how much better the Celts are on offense this year.  Isaiah doesn't make the leap he's made without Al Horford sharing the floor with him much of the time.


Next thing I'll say:

As much as I want to defend Horford, if his scoring and overall production don't take a step up come playoff time, I will have some criticism for him and his contract.

He's at a point in his career where he is justified in taking a back seat offensively, just doing a lot of little things to help the team win -- during the regular season.

In the playoffs, there will come a time when the Celts need Horford to step up and get some buckets when the other guys are struggling.  He will need to take and make big shots.

TP. This is pretty spot on.

What I find so funny is that virtually everyone (including me) thought he was going to come in and make us a defensive juggernaut with a marginal increase offensively, and pretty much the exact opposite has happened. Granted, part of that is him playing out of position, even if he's the driving force behind that fact.

[Tr1boy]

The biggest issue I have with Horford is, why isnt he scoring 20 plus a game on a daily basis

Pnr ,  and just stands there, hey IT4 go to work

Why doesnt he take his man off the dribble more.  Fake the hand off to IT4 and shoot the 3 more etc

Make some clutch shots instead of just being happy to pass the ball

[JBcat]

Let's have some perspective.  According to ESPN, Horford is 7th among centers in scoring, 5th in 3PM, 4th in 2PT%, 8th in blocks and 1st in assists (and first in assist to turnover ratio).

He's a very effective player.

Yup, and what were the alternatives for bigs in Free Agency?  Re-sign Jared Sullinger?  He may be overpaid but he has helped solidify our bigs situation that was very fragile.  There is a time to overpay, and time not too.  I'm totally fine with the signing.

[Ilikesports17]

The biggest issue I have with Horford is, why isnt he scoring 20 plus a game on a daily basis

Pnr ,  and just stands there, hey IT4 go to work

Why doesnt he take his man off the dribble more.  Fake the hand off to IT4 and shoot the 3 more etc

Make some clutch shots instead of just being happy to pass the ball

thats not his game.

He is a flow of the offense guy.

[Ilikesports17]

First thing I'll say:

The Celts are 6th in Offensive Efficiency this year.

They are 4th in 3 pointers made per game.


Last year, the Celts were 13th in Offensive Efficiency.

They were 12th in 3 pointers made per game.


Al Horford does not get enough credit for how much better the Celts are on offense this year.  Isaiah doesn't make the leap he's made without Al Horford sharing the floor with him much of the time.


Next thing I'll say:

As much as I want to defend Horford, if his scoring and overall production don't take a step up come playoff time, I will have some criticism for him and his contract.

He's at a point in his career where he is justified in taking a back seat offensively, just doing a lot of little things to help the team win -- during the regular season.

In the playoffs, there will come a time when the Celts need Horford to step up and get some buckets when the other guys are struggling.  He will need to take and make big shots.

thank you for articulating my thoughts.

I think he is overpaid, but the decision to overpay him was a wise one.

[Boris Badenov]

That is NOT $27 worth of production no matter how you guys try to spin it.

Here's the thing. A statement like "that is NOT $27 million worth of production" is empty unless you tell us what $27 million of production SHOULD look like.

And as I said above, you CAN NOT use players like Harden, Westbrook, etc. as benchmarks. In an unconstrained environment they would get far more than the max.

This also happens to be about the worst time in NBA history to make a blanket, unfounded assessment about what any player is "worth." The cap has exploded. Rules on max contracts have changed.

As a consequence, at no point in NBA history have salaries been (a) more "out of whack" across players when you compare players signed recently vs. in the past, when the cap numbers were lower, and (b) harder to benchmark against any notion of "fair value." Things have changed so fast that there's simply no useful historical data.

There's a simpler question, however: if we didn't offer Horford that contract, would other teams have given him the same deal?

Because if the answer is "yes" (and it is), then we paid what he was worth. We didn't overpay. It's called a market test. End of story.

[footey]

Picking up Horford has made us a better team. The cost was a max contract, which we could afford.

[Tr1boy]

The biggest issue I have with Horford is, why isnt he scoring 20 plus a game on a daily basis

Pnr ,  and just stands there, hey IT4 go to work

Why doesnt he take his man off the dribble more.  Fake the hand off to IT4 and shoot the 3 more etc

Make some clutch shots instead of just being happy to pass the ball

thats not his game.

He is a flow of the offense guy.

Then he should be making 'flow of the offense guy' type money

Not max

[fairweatherfan]

"Is Horford worth his max deal" could be an interesting and thoughtful conversation. "Is he on the worst contract in the league" is just silly and deserves the rebukes it's getting. Though I see some are even trying to top that with "worst contract in history" which is like waving a red flag that you don't know much about NBA contract history.

[Smitty77]

Let's have some perspective.  According to ESPN, Horford is 7th among centers in scoring, 5th in 3PM, 4th in 2PT%, 8th in blocks and 1st in assists (and first in assist to turnover ratio).

He's a very effective player.

How updated are those stats?  I bet they are a little dated.  He has been absolutely HORRIBLE the last five games.  Horrible.  There is NO spinning this Roy!!!   He is in a MAJOR SLUMP and he needs to snap out of it very soon.

Smitty77

His contract is not for 5 games.

An you are the one spinning, not Roy.

I think that Roy can protect himself.  Are you his big brother or something?:-)))  Gosh, thanks for telling me that.  I had NO idea!!  Sadly we will be paying him an average of around $29 million per year for the next three years AFTER this year:-(((((

He had a 17.5 PER BEFORE shooting 2-11 tonight and 0-3 from three.  That is NOT $27 worth of production no matter how you guys try to spin it.

Can you all ADMIT that he is in a slump?

Smitty77

I don't care about slumps in any sport. I care about overall performance. I don't look for small sample sizes to get me excited.

How about a FIVE YEAR sample of his PER by year starting with this year going back 4 more years??

17.49
19.50
21.40
22.10
19.80

I expect about a 20 PER for $27 million personally and I KNOW that Al can deliver that!!!!

Smitty77

[max215]

The biggest issue I have with Horford is, why isnt he scoring 20 plus a game on a daily basis

Pnr ,  and just stands there, hey IT4 go to work

Why doesnt he take his man off the dribble more.  Fake the hand off to IT4 and shoot the 3 more etc

Make some clutch shots instead of just being happy to pass the ball

thats not his game.

He is a flow of the offense guy.

Then he should be making 'flow of the offense guy' type money

Not max

Because max salaries exist, really good flow of the offense guys get the max.

[Smitty77]

First thing I'll say:

The Celts are 6th in Offensive Efficiency this year.

They are 4th in 3 pointers made per game.


Last year, the Celts were 13th in Offensive Efficiency.

They were 12th in 3 pointers made per game.


Al Horford does not get enough credit for how much better the Celts are on offense this year.  Isaiah doesn't make the leap he's made without Al Horford sharing the floor with him much of the time.


Next thing I'll say:

As much as I want to defend Horford, if his scoring and overall production don't take a step up come playoff time, I will have some criticism for him and his contract.

He's at a point in his career where he is justified in taking a back seat offensively, just doing a lot of little things to help the team win -- during the regular season.

In the playoffs, there will come a time when the Celts need Horford to step up and get some buckets when the other guys are struggling.  He will need to take and make big shots.

Now balance this off and give me some Defensive Efficiency numbers for last year compared to this year!!

Thanks,

Smitty77

[Tr1boy]

Picking up Horford has made us a better team. The cost was a max contract, which we could afford.

The issue becomes IT4 should get max, why should AB not be paid the same as Horford?  Etc

And agents will argue

Pay the correct players max money ... then it all makes sense

Your best player should get max(consistency, production, all around, clutch).... Why should a 'flow of the guy ' be paid max? Its like a manager being paid more than a vice president. 

[max215]

Picking up Horford has made us a better team. The cost was a max contract, which we could afford.

The issue becomes IT4 should get max, why should AB not be paid the same as Horford?  Etc

And agents will argue

Pay the correct players max money ... then it all makes sense

Your best player should get max(consistency, production clutch).... Why should a 'flow of the guy ' be paid max? Its like a manager being paid more than a vice president.

Because there is a max.