Poll

Should the Celtics trade for AD?

Yes.  (Tatum in the deal)
22 (44.9%)
No.   (Not worth giving up assets for a one year rental)
19 (38.8%)
Yes but only if Tatum isn't in the deal.
8 (16.3%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: Anthony Davis traded to Lakers(page 272)  (Read 339638 times)

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Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2835 on: May 27, 2019, 05:58:14 PM »

Online Roy H.

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When can teams trade? Heard different dates

Now, except for Golden State and Toronto. You can’t trade pending free agents, though.

We have to wait for Kyrie to opt out to do a Davis trade.


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Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2836 on: May 27, 2019, 06:05:36 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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When can teams trade? Heard different dates

Now, except for Golden State and Toronto. You can’t trade pending free agents, though.

We have to wait for Kyrie to opt out to do a Davis trade.

When do you expect things to become clearer re: next season for the C’s? 

As I understand it, key dates are 6/13 when FA talks can start, 6/20 is the draft, and 7/1 is when FAs can be signed. Is it likely we’ll have a pretty good idea of the direction things are heading shortly after 6/13??  Or will things take time to develop?   Is KI staying/leaving the first domino?

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2837 on: May 27, 2019, 06:10:51 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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When can teams trade? Heard different dates

Now, except for Golden State and Toronto. You can’t trade pending free agents, though.

We have to wait for Kyrie to opt out to do a Davis trade.

When do you expect things to become clearer re: next season for the C’s? 

As I understand it, key dates are 6/13 when FA talks can start, 6/20 is the draft, and 7/1 is when FAs can be signed. Is it likely we’ll have a pretty good idea of the direction things are heading shortly after 6/13??  Or will things take time to develop?   Is KI staying/leaving the first domino?

Teams can't start talking to free agents until 7/1 (well, 6pm on 6/30 this year), with the actual signing not happening until the July moratorium ends. June 13th is just the last day for players to exercise their player options
I'm bitter.

Re: New trade idea...Minny, Boston, NOP
« Reply #2838 on: May 27, 2019, 07:25:46 PM »

Offline gouki88

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If Minnesota is involved it would be interesting for the Pelicans to try to get Towns by giving up Zion. The value of an undisputed #1 pick is at an alltime high around draft night, why not capitalize on that? With Towns you have a guaranteed star, who's only 23 and can still become a superstar.

Just look at this year's numbers (quite amazing):

Karl-Anthony Towns 24.4 PTS/ 12.4 REB / 3.4 AST / 1.6 BLK, while shooting: 56 (2FG%) / 40 (3FG%) / 84 (FT%) = 62,2 TS%

Group of players (FGM>8 and TS%>60%): Antetokounmpo, Curry, Durant, Towns, Harden, Leonard
Group of players (PPG>20, REB>10, BLK>1): Antetokounmpo, Embiid, Davis, Towns, Vucevic
Group of players (2FG%>52, 3FG%>37, FGA>12): Curry, Bogdanovic, Towns, Irving, Harris, Leonard


With the failed Butler experience and the stagnation of Wiggins, I'm sure Minnesota knows they aren't contending any time soon. Get Zion and create a new window, before you're pushed into the position of having to sell Towns anyway, since he wants to compete.

I don't want the Celtics to give up Smart (and Williams), but I think that they'll be made available. The Pelicans could build around Tatum and Towns, who're both versatile scorers inside and outside, and have potential to get better on defense.

New Orleans Pelicans
in:   Towns, Covington, Tatum, Smart, Williams, Memphis pick         
out:   Davis, Hill, #1 pick         
               
Boston Celtics
in:   Davis         
out:   Tatum, Smart, Williams, Yabusele, #20 pick, Memphis pick         
               
Minnesota Timberwolves   
in:   Hill, Yabusele, #1 pick, #20 pick         
out:   Towns, Covington         

New Pelicans rotation:

PG: Smart, Payton (re-sign), Jackson
SG: Holiday, Moore, #39 Windler
SF: Tatum, Covington, K. Williams 
PF: Randle (re-sign), Wood, Diallo
C: Towns, Okafor, R.Williams
This is a rare proposal in that I think it’s both fair and sensible for all teams involved. Tatum & Towns could be an awesome duo long-term, Zion would bring people in and we get Davis. TP
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

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SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2839 on: May 27, 2019, 07:38:24 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

So why didn't the Cavs do that? We had way more assets than IT/Crowder/Zizic/Nets pick

If a team wants to overplay their hands and try to get 2x from us what they could get from another team, they'll probably just be shooting themselves in the foot

you dont think that was an overpay for Kyrie at the time? That Nets pick was golden at the time. Cs gave up the Nets pick and IT after an NBA type season for a player with a bum knee on a two year deal. That was a massive overpay.

Re: New trade idea...Minny, Boston, NOP
« Reply #2840 on: May 27, 2019, 07:39:49 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Minnesota is involved it would be interesting for the Pelicans to try to get Towns by giving up Zion. The value of an undisputed #1 pick is at an alltime high around draft night, why not capitalize on that? With Towns you have a guaranteed star, who's only 23 and can still become a superstar.

Just look at this year's numbers (quite amazing):

Karl-Anthony Towns 24.4 PTS/ 12.4 REB / 3.4 AST / 1.6 BLK, while shooting: 56 (2FG%) / 40 (3FG%) / 84 (FT%) = 62,2 TS%

Group of players (FGM>8 and TS%>60%): Antetokounmpo, Curry, Durant, Towns, Harden, Leonard
Group of players (PPG>20, REB>10, BLK>1): Antetokounmpo, Embiid, Davis, Towns, Vucevic
Group of players (2FG%>52, 3FG%>37, FGA>12): Curry, Bogdanovic, Towns, Irving, Harris, Leonard


With the failed Butler experience and the stagnation of Wiggins, I'm sure Minnesota knows they aren't contending any time soon. Get Zion and create a new window, before you're pushed into the position of having to sell Towns anyway, since he wants to compete.

I don't want the Celtics to give up Smart (and Williams), but I think that they'll be made available. The Pelicans could build around Tatum and Towns, who're both versatile scorers inside and outside, and have potential to get better on defense.

New Orleans Pelicans
in:   Towns, Covington, Tatum, Smart, Williams, Memphis pick         
out:   Davis, Hill, #1 pick         
               
Boston Celtics
in:   Davis         
out:   Tatum, Smart, Williams, Yabusele, #20 pick, Memphis pick         
               
Minnesota Timberwolves   
in:   Hill, Yabusele, #1 pick, #20 pick         
out:   Towns, Covington         

New Pelicans rotation:

PG: Smart, Payton (re-sign), Jackson
SG: Holiday, Moore, #39 Windler
SF: Tatum, Covington, K. Williams 
PF: Randle (re-sign), Wood, Diallo
C: Towns, Okafor, R.Williams
This is a rare proposal in that I think it’s both fair and sensible for all teams involved. Tatum & Towns could be an awesome duo long-term, Zion would bring people in and we get Davis. TP
Well there is the little tiny elephant in the room with this trade...that Minnesota is getting majorly shafted. But yeah, other than, great trade idea.

Towns is a proven young stud who is only 23 and already through the early development stage. Minnesota isn't giving up on him anytime soon. Their plan will be to keep Towns and build around him, most likely without Wiggins.

Re: New trade idea...Minny, Boston, NOP
« Reply #2841 on: May 27, 2019, 07:43:35 PM »

Offline gouki88

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If Minnesota is involved it would be interesting for the Pelicans to try to get Towns by giving up Zion. The value of an undisputed #1 pick is at an alltime high around draft night, why not capitalize on that? With Towns you have a guaranteed star, who's only 23 and can still become a superstar.

Just look at this year's numbers (quite amazing):

Karl-Anthony Towns 24.4 PTS/ 12.4 REB / 3.4 AST / 1.6 BLK, while shooting: 56 (2FG%) / 40 (3FG%) / 84 (FT%) = 62,2 TS%

Group of players (FGM>8 and TS%>60%): Antetokounmpo, Curry, Durant, Towns, Harden, Leonard
Group of players (PPG>20, REB>10, BLK>1): Antetokounmpo, Embiid, Davis, Towns, Vucevic
Group of players (2FG%>52, 3FG%>37, FGA>12): Curry, Bogdanovic, Towns, Irving, Harris, Leonard


With the failed Butler experience and the stagnation of Wiggins, I'm sure Minnesota knows they aren't contending any time soon. Get Zion and create a new window, before you're pushed into the position of having to sell Towns anyway, since he wants to compete.

I don't want the Celtics to give up Smart (and Williams), but I think that they'll be made available. The Pelicans could build around Tatum and Towns, who're both versatile scorers inside and outside, and have potential to get better on defense.

New Orleans Pelicans
in:   Towns, Covington, Tatum, Smart, Williams, Memphis pick         
out:   Davis, Hill, #1 pick         
               
Boston Celtics
in:   Davis         
out:   Tatum, Smart, Williams, Yabusele, #20 pick, Memphis pick         
               
Minnesota Timberwolves   
in:   Hill, Yabusele, #1 pick, #20 pick         
out:   Towns, Covington         

New Pelicans rotation:

PG: Smart, Payton (re-sign), Jackson
SG: Holiday, Moore, #39 Windler
SF: Tatum, Covington, K. Williams 
PF: Randle (re-sign), Wood, Diallo
C: Towns, Okafor, R.Williams
This is a rare proposal in that I think it’s both fair and sensible for all teams involved. Tatum & Towns could be an awesome duo long-term, Zion would bring people in and we get Davis. TP
Well there is the little tiny elephant in the room with this trade...that Minnesota is getting majorly shafted. But yeah, other than, great trade idea.

Towns is a proven young stud who is only 23 and already through the early development stage. Minnesota isn't giving up on him anytime soon. Their plan will be to keep Towns and build around him, most likely without Wiggins.
I was predicting this on Towns wanting out.

I would agree they they should try and build around him and move Wiggins, but this is the same team that maxed out Wiggins in the first place. One of the most immovable contracts in the game
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2842 on: May 27, 2019, 10:16:26 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

So why didn't the Cavs do that? We had way more assets than IT/Crowder/Zizic/Nets pick

If a team wants to overplay their hands and try to get 2x from us what they could get from another team, they'll probably just be shooting themselves in the foot

you dont think that was an overpay for Kyrie at the time? That Nets pick was golden at the time. Cs gave up the Nets pick and IT after an NBA type season for a player with a bum knee on a two year deal. That was a massive overpay.

Massive overpay? No. If IT was healthy, then definitely, but with his hip injury and just one year left on his deal, his value was low. The main haul was the Nets pick, and a single future first rounder (plus filler) for a young All Star with 2 years left on his contract is actually a pretty good deal

So I would say it's no more of an overpay than I think Tatum/Smart/Memphis pick/1 or 2 of this year's picks would be. It's far from what we could have offered, and far less than a team would ask for if they were asking for far more from us than anyone else

The leverage that the Pelicans have is what other teams are willing to give (aka a bidding war). Us having more assets than anyone else doesn't give them any leverage over us
I'm bitter.

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2843 on: May 27, 2019, 10:59:04 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

So why didn't the Cavs do that? We had way more assets than IT/Crowder/Zizic/Nets pick

If a team wants to overplay their hands and try to get 2x from us what they could get from another team, they'll probably just be shooting themselves in the foot

you dont think that was an overpay for Kyrie at the time? That Nets pick was golden at the time. Cs gave up the Nets pick and IT after an NBA type season for a player with a bum knee on a two year deal. That was a massive overpay.

Massive overpay? No. If IT was healthy, then definitely, but with his hip injury and just one year left on his deal, his value was low. The main haul was the Nets pick, and a single future first rounder (plus filler) for a young All Star with 2 years left on his contract is actually a pretty good deal

So I would say it's no more of an overpay than I think Tatum/Smart/Memphis pick/1 or 2 of this year's picks would be. It's far from what we could have offered, and far less than a team would ask for if they were asking for far more from us than anyone else

The leverage that the Pelicans have is what other teams are willing to give (aka a bidding war). Us having more assets than anyone else doesn't give them any leverage over us

The extent of IT's hip injury was unknown at the time. If you remember CAVS came back to get additional compensation after the deal. When the deal was done everyone assumed IT  would be back to his old form.

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2844 on: May 27, 2019, 11:03:28 PM »

Online Roy H.

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When the deal was done everyone assumed IT  would be back to his old form.

I think that's what everybody hoped, but I don't think that that was everybody's assumption, at all. 


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Betting the future of franchise
« Reply #2845 on: May 29, 2019, 12:55:22 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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On a rental that wants to be in LA. After all Danny's maneuvering for years to get a shot at Davis.I don't think the fans are going to think this is a responsible move Marcus,Hayward, Brown and draft choices after getting nothing for Kyrie, Morris or Rozier.
A one year rental that could not carry his team. If He leaves the franchise for LA lifestyle and weather this will be a franchise in tatters in tatters.
I would like to see the Celtics build like the Spurs
.Two years of Kyrie and his circus and disrespect have left me cold
Isaiah and" back up Brinks truck"  and Kyrie" i shoulda shot 30." Isaiah's season was far more memorable.

Kyrie is a gifted Diva-but failed in two playoff seasons.He owes nothing ,that is no way to treat the fans that have supported you and millions invested and trade assets .You failed as a leader and as a superstar in playoffs.You don't have an ounce of what it takes to be in our rafters.
Get outta here and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Re: Betting the future of franchise
« Reply #2846 on: May 29, 2019, 02:08:43 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I agree with your concerns, but you won't get a lot of sympathy from certain folks around here.

Many here interpret statements like "Maybe Kyrie isn't the kind of guy you want to build around" and "Maybe it's not a good idea to trade our best assets for a guy who has made clear he wouldn't be inclined to stay" as "We should accept mediocrity and not contend for the next 10 years."


There are a couple of possibilities that are scary to me. 

The Celts could trade for AD and get a short term commitment from Kyrie and then lose both for nothing. 

Or, the Celtics could sign Kyrie long term, trade all their pieces for AD, sign AD long term, and then both guys end up being injury prone and super mercurial / unhappy and the team underachieves as a result.

Not sure which is scarier.  On the one hand, the team is left basically having to start over a year or so from now.  That's a disaster.  On the other hand, we all spend 3-5 years following a Celtics team that is basically more of the same as this past season, albeit with more talent.



Maybe talent is all that matters and the team should take the chance regardless, because the alternative is irrelevance.  I suppose you can't pick and choose which superstars become available when you have the assets to make a move.  If the team moves on from Kyrie and doesn't trade for AD, there's no guarantee that they're in a position to make a move for a franchise talent the next time one becomes available.


It's a tough spot the team is in this summer.  Though I think it's healthy to remind ourselves that many franchises in the league would be thrilled to switch places with the Celtics.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Betting the future of franchise
« Reply #2847 on: May 29, 2019, 02:26:43 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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I was all aboard the Kyrie Irving train, prepared to bet the Celtic future on him. I fell for the "I want my jersey hanging in the rafters" BS.

Right now, I'm all in favor of passing on Irving, especially after his playoff display of panic and incompetence, his inability to simply deal with the press, and lack of overall leadership. He could not simply become a comrade in arms on a basketball club. Very disappointing.

He is a talent, no doubt about it. But he is also a version of a modern day sports Diva too. Kyrie is much too involved with Kyrie as a "Brand."  He wanted his own team, he now has it. He mistakenly thought that building a winning tradition and a team was going to be handed to him on a platter by merely showing up.

If Kyrie leaves the Celtics he should listen closely, because NBA fans all over the World will be laughing at him, because he has been exposed.

Re: Betting the future of franchise
« Reply #2848 on: May 29, 2019, 02:27:44 PM »

Offline mobilija

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I'm trying to look at it as a win-win.

Sign Kyrie, Trade for Davis and take a shot at a championship. Downside, as pointed out above, is we fail and/or the team doesn't mesh and we are lottery bound for a few years.

No Kyrie, no Davis and embrace the youth movement. Enjoy homegrown likable players as they try to achieve beyond 2nd round fodder. Downside, no foreseable championship window unless lady luck gifts us a superstar somehow in the next 5 years.

I'm rooting for the "swing for the fences", immediate championship route because... ya know, championships are the goal. But I see either as being a better outcome then most of the league has and a fun watch.

Re: Betting the future of franchise
« Reply #2849 on: May 29, 2019, 02:33:29 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm trying to look at it as a win-win.

Sign Kyrie, Trade for Davis and take a shot at a championship. Downside, as pointed out above, is we fail and/or the team doesn't mesh and we are lottery bound for a few years.

No Kyrie, no Davis and embrace the youth movement. Enjoy homegrown likable players as they try to achieve beyond 2nd round fodder. Downside, no foreseable championship window unless lady luck gifts us a superstar somehow in the next 5 years.

I'm rooting for the "swing for the fences", immediate championship route because... ya know, championships are the goal. But I see either as being a better outcome then most of the league has and a fun watch.


I think this is the correct and healthy take.

Either we end up with Kyrie and Davis, or we end up with a youth movement headlined by Tatum and Brown.


We have cause for excitement either way. 
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain