What's with this slump?

[PhoSita]

For what it's worth, the Celts do have one of the lowest scoring benches in the league, but the Rockets and Blazers benches produce less.

[Fierce1]

The excuses has to stop.

When you're using guys like Grant Williams and Daniel Theis as Centers that means you're desperate.

Some of the Celtic fans think a big man is only to get rebounds and protect the rim.

Having a quality NBA big man is not only for defensive purposes, it also forces the opposing teams and their bigs to play defense inside the paint.

If your bigs are just shooting 3-pointers and jumpers, that means the opposing bigs will not get in foul trouble.

In other words, you're not making opposing bigs work when they're on defense.

Danny Ainge modeled this team after the GSW dynasty of Steph.
But clearly this current Celts team is nowhere near the level of Steph's GSW from 2015-2019.

Right now the Celts are relying solely on wing players and Kemba to win games.
Celts have become predictable.
Opposing teams already know what they're going to do and opposing teams know the Celts don't have a scoring threat inside.
This is the reason why the Celtic offense stalls.
Opposing teams will just focus on defending the Celts at the 3-point line because that's all the Celts can do right now.

The Celts just don't have balance on offense, they're too dependent on the wing players.

No diversity on offense, that's why Celts are so predictable.

It's time to trade some wing power for an inside force.

[Fierce1]

This is not just a slump.

Here:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/what-make-celtics-amid-their-midseason-tailspin

Are the Celtics true contenders? Maybe, but the past couple weeks hasn’t helped their case. Boston is now 7-8 against teams over .500 and only two of those wins came on the road (both when an opponent was missing a key player). They whiffed with a chance to pounce on an Embiid-less Philly last week and then couldn’t capitalize on Giannis-less minutes after getting within single digits in the second half on Thursday night.

Celts have a losing record against team above .500.

That's not a slump, that's a pattern.

[PhoSita]

Why are the centers your focus?

Sure it's easier to start there because Grant and Theis are non scoring role players.

But is the team losing because of a lack of production inside?  I don't see that. They're getting to the free throw line and they're scoring points in the paint. They're not getting consistently beaten by opponents in those areas.


The stats suggest the Celts are losing these games because the team as a whole shoots poorly, the opponent gets really hot, and the starters get bombarded early by the other teams starters.


The bench and the center position are easy scapegoats but those reasons don't seem to really account for what's going on.

[Fierce1]

Why are the centers your focus?

Sure it's easier to start there because Grant and Theis are non scoring role players.

But is the team losing because of a lack of production inside?  I don't see that. They're getting to the free throw line and they're scoring points in the paint. They're not getting consistently beaten by opponents in those areas.


The stats suggest the Celts are losing these games because the team as a whole shoots poorly, the opponent gets really hot, and the starters get bombarded early by the other teams starters.


The bench and the center position are easy scapegoats but those reasons don't seem to really account for what's going on.

The stats don't tell the whole story.

If Theis and GWill are not scoring threats then that means Brook Lopez, who is also bad defensively, will get away with being a bad defensive player because he doesn't have to work on defense when he's playing the Celts.

Celts shooting poorly is because opposing teams know the Celts will shoot 3s, no inside-outside game to open up the shooters.

That's the reason why Kemba, Tatum, and Hayward are usually shooting 3s with a defender in front of them.

It's about keeping the defense honest.

When you're not a threat to score inside, that means the opposing teams will just focus on defending the outside shot.

Make the opposing Centers work on defense, get them in foul trouble, that's what the Celts are lacking.

[Donoghus]

Why are the centers your focus?

Sure it's easier to start there because Grant and Theis are non scoring role players.

But is the team losing because of a lack of production inside?  I don't see that. They're getting to the free throw line and they're scoring points in the paint. They're not getting consistently beaten by opponents in those areas.


The stats suggest the Celts are losing these games because the team as a whole shoots poorly, the opponent gets really hot, and the starters get bombarded early by the other teams starters.


The bench and the center position are easy scapegoats but those reasons don't seem to really account for what's going on.

Because he's been desperately trying to dump Jaylen for a center for months on end.

[PhoSita]

This is not just a slump.

Here:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/what-make-celtics-amid-their-midseason-tailspin

Are the Celtics true contenders? Maybe, but the past couple weeks hasn’t helped their case. Boston is now 7-8 against teams over .500 and only two of those wins came on the road (both when an opponent was missing a key player). They whiffed with a chance to pounce on an Embiid-less Philly last week and then couldn’t capitalize on Giannis-less minutes after getting within single digits in the second half on Thursday night.

Celts have a losing record against team above .500.

That's not a slump, that's a pattern.

That is a pattern, but is it out of the ordinary? I would want to see what other playoff caliber teams have in terms of records against other teams above .500. my guess is that most teams aren't that much better.


Also I think the Celts have probably have more of those games this season that have been back to backs or on the road.

How many of the games against good teams that the Celtics have lost have come on the second night of a back to back or on the road?

[Fierce1]

Why are the centers your focus?

Sure it's easier to start there because Grant and Theis are non scoring role players.

But is the team losing because of a lack of production inside?  I don't see that. They're getting to the free throw line and they're scoring points in the paint. They're not getting consistently beaten by opponents in those areas.


The stats suggest the Celts are losing these games because the team as a whole shoots poorly, the opponent gets really hot, and the starters get bombarded early by the other teams starters.


The bench and the center position are easy scapegoats but those reasons don't seem to really account for what's going on.

Because he's been desperately trying to dump Jaylen for a center for months on end.

Once Jaylen signed that contract extension, I stopped wanting to trade Jaylen.

Jaylen was hinting he wanted the max, IMO, he's not a max player.
That's why I was happy he agreed to take less than the max.

So it's not about Jaylen, it's about the Celts reaching the Finals again because it's been 10 years now.

[Fierce1]

This is not just a slump.

Here:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/what-make-celtics-amid-their-midseason-tailspin

Are the Celtics true contenders? Maybe, but the past couple weeks hasn’t helped their case. Boston is now 7-8 against teams over .500 and only two of those wins came on the road (both when an opponent was missing a key player). They whiffed with a chance to pounce on an Embiid-less Philly last week and then couldn’t capitalize on Giannis-less minutes after getting within single digits in the second half on Thursday night.

Celts have a losing record against team above .500.

That's not a slump, that's a pattern.

That is a pattern, but is it out of the ordinary? I would want to see what other playoff caliber teams have in terms of records against other teams above .500. my guess is that most teams aren't that much better.


Also I think the Celts have probably have more of those games this season that have been back to backs or on the road.

How many of the games against good teams that the Celtics have lost have come on the second night of a back to back or on the road?

It's simple, look at all the playoff caliber teams, all their Centers are not small.

All the playoff teams have a fundamentally sound lineup, they're not using 6-8 or 6-6 players as Centers.

Of all the 16 playoff teams right now, east and west, the Celts have the weakest starting Center.

[GreenRunsDeep33]

The excuses has to stop.

When you're using guys like Grant Williams and Daniel Theis as Centers that means you're desperate.

Some of the Celtic fans think a big man is only to get rebounds and protect the rim.

Having a quality NBA big man is not only for defensive purposes, it also forces the opposing teams and their bigs to play defense inside the paint.

If your bigs are just shooting 3-pointers and jumpers, that means the opposing bigs will not get in foul trouble.

In other words, you're not making opposing bigs work when they're on defense.

Danny Ainge modeled this team after the GSW dynasty of Steph.
But clearly this current Celts team is nowhere near the level of Steph's GSW from 2015-2019.

Right now the Celts are relying solely on wing players and Kemba to win games.
Celts have become predictable.
Opposing teams already know what they're going to do and opposing teams know the Celts don't have a scoring threat inside.
This is the reason why the Celtic offense stalls.
Opposing teams will just focus on defending the Celts at the 3-point line because that's all the Celts can do right now.

The Celts just don't have balance on offense, they're too dependent on the wing players.

No diversity on offense, that's why Celts are so predictable.

It's time to trade some wing power for an inside force.

I agree with this. This team has no inside presence. I don't know why we drafted Grant Williams. It's Sully all over again. Why Ainge likes these tweeners who have to play way over their head to make an impact. All this one on one play needs to stop as well.

Stevens teams always "almost get there" but can never get over the hump. They play hard, hustle but just come up short.

[ETNCeltics]

It's a slump, they're losing to bad teams as well as good. The record vs. good teams/bad teams is irrelevant.

Unless you're Milwaukee or the Lakers, you probably don't have a great record against teams with winning records. Toronto is basically 1 game behind us, they have a terrible record against teams with winning records, Miami is 1 game ahead of us, they have a better record against teams with winning records. Does Miami having more losses against Teams like Orlando make them better than us? Likewise, does Toronto having fewer losses against teams like Atlanta make them better than us? As the great Bill Parcells said, 'you are what your record says you are'.

We've proven we can beat good teams. We've beaten Milwaukee, Miami, Denver, and came within an eyelash and a few bad calls of beating LAC on their floor.

The comments in these threads are so myopic. "Big man" "shooter off the bench" etc. Would those things be nice? Certainly. But they're not going to matter when Jaylen Brown gets torched by Marcus Morris' brother, or Gordon Hayward goes 1-10, and really, nothing is going to matter when a team is shooting 60%+ against us.

We're losing because Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, and Gordon Hayward (and in some cases, Marcus Smart) are not doing their jobs on either end of the court. Blaming it on anything else is just fantasy. 

[CF033]

Lack of fire/desire from the starters and a lack of talent from the bench.

Opponents are coming at us with haymakers and we're just not responding to it.

I admit that getting blown out at home by both Detroit and Toronto's skeleton crew of a team were hard to take. As was losing to Washington who was missing their best player, and who is terrible even when they have their best player.

I do believe there is a little bit of 'we just have to show up to beat these teams' mentality going on.

[CF033]

The excuses has to stop.

When you're using guys like Grant Williams and Daniel Theis as Centers that means you're desperate.

Some of the Celtic fans think a big man is only to get rebounds and protect the rim.

Having a quality NBA big man is not only for defensive purposes, it also forces the opposing teams and their bigs to play defense inside the paint.

If your bigs are just shooting 3-pointers and jumpers, that means the opposing bigs will not get in foul trouble.

In other words, you're not making opposing bigs work when they're on defense.

Danny Ainge modeled this team after the GSW dynasty of Steph.
But clearly this current Celts team is nowhere near the level of Steph's GSW from 2015-2019.

Right now the Celts are relying solely on wing players and Kemba to win games.
Celts have become predictable.
Opposing teams already know what they're going to do and opposing teams know the Celts don't have a scoring threat inside.
This is the reason why the Celtic offense stalls.
Opposing teams will just focus on defending the Celts at the 3-point line because that's all the Celts can do right now.

The Celts just don't have balance on offense, they're too dependent on the wing players.

No diversity on offense, that's why Celts are so predictable.

It's time to trade some wing power for an inside force.

The GSW formula works amazingly well when you have two of the greatest shooters of all time on your team strangely enough.

[SDceltGuy]

We're losing because Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, and Gordon Hayward (and in some cases, Marcus Smart) are not doing their jobs on either end of the court. Blaming it on anything else is just fantasy.

I agree with this.  These 3 guys have let this team down - especially Hayward.  These are guys responsible for the slow starts and inconsistent effort.   

[PAOBoston]

We're losing because Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, and Gordon Hayward (and in some cases, Marcus Smart) are not doing their jobs on either end of the court. Blaming it on anything else is just fantasy.

I agree with this.  These 3 guys have let this team down - especially Hayward.  These are guys responsible for the slow starts and inconsistent effort.   

They haven’t been very consistent lately but to say they’ve let the team down is so wrong. Brown/Tatum have carried the team basically for the early stretch of the year.

People are going nuts. It’s a slump. It happens. They were on pace for like 58 wins. They were going to hit a rough patch at some point. Doesn’t mean they have to blow up the entire roster and I don’t think Ainge will.

The same issues that we were talking about before the season (center depth, bench production) are still issues. I do t think they need to be blockbuster moves but some veterans on that roster who know their roles would help them.