All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[tazzmaniac]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

If the 76ers have tired of this saga and are considering trading Fultz, and multiple sources said they are, his trade value must have declined a great deal since the start of the season.
The team might be able to get a late first-round pick for Fultz from a desperate club willing to take a chance, or the Sixers could try for a player with an expiring contract. That would enable them to avoid paying the $9.7 million that Fultz is guaranteed for next season

.

No one's giving up a first rounder of any kind for Fultz at this time, not with all that's transpired.

But the tidbit about the expiring contract is interesting. A bad team can certainly send PHI an expiring contract and take back Fultz and absorb him into their cap space for this year and next (assuming that bad team has a ton of cap flexibility), so it could be a gamble worth taking.

Either way this is looking like a bust for PHI. They're fine in the long run but if they never take that "next step" then the Fultz/Tatum trade is what'll haunt them the most IMHO.

Also the Butler trade looks like a combination of PHI being desperate to stay with the top dogs in the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, etc.) but also a "compromise" for Fultz not working out.

Someone smart will trade a first for him.  He may have been overdrafted by a couple of spots but he's still a top 10 pick in that draft. 

20 year old pointguards with a 3:1 Assist to Turnover ratio don't stay on the market for very long.

Yeah, and those kind of 20-year old point guards RARELY hit the market to begin with.

Seems like a pretty big red flag that PHI traded for Butler and now seem desperate to trade Fultz so fast. Also he's seeing a shoulder specialist after supposedly spending all of last year and the summer trying to heal and correct his issues. He may even miss more significant time right now.

There isn't any evidence that the Sixers are trying to trade Fultz and Fultz's agent denied reports that he wants to be traded.  Maybe that changes after the results from these  specialist visits are known.  However trading for Butler actually lessens the pressure on Fultz and the Sixers.  The Sixers have their 3 stars now so they have the option of waiting on Fultz to get right or at least "better" so that they could selectively showcase him and try to increase his trade value.

It's pretty clear that you are not objective about things related to the 76ers so your opinion doesn't hold a lot of sway with me personally on this matter. I am genuinely curious from people that are a bit more objective on them.

That's funny.  I wasn't responding to a post of yours and yet you chose to respond to mine twice.  I'm not surprised that you don't find me objective given your total lack of objectivity. 

Just listened to Bobby Marks on the Woj pod.  They don't think the Sixers are looking to trade Fultz now because of their investment in him and the flashes of potential he's shown as well as his low value.  From Fultz's perspective, they think the Sixers may be the best place for him with the support he has from coach Brown and the players and the investment they've made in him whereas a new team is unlikely to be as patient or supportive. 

[celticsclay]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

If the 76ers have tired of this saga and are considering trading Fultz, and multiple sources said they are, his trade value must have declined a great deal since the start of the season.
The team might be able to get a late first-round pick for Fultz from a desperate club willing to take a chance, or the Sixers could try for a player with an expiring contract. That would enable them to avoid paying the $9.7 million that Fultz is guaranteed for next season

.

No one's giving up a first rounder of any kind for Fultz at this time, not with all that's transpired.

But the tidbit about the expiring contract is interesting. A bad team can certainly send PHI an expiring contract and take back Fultz and absorb him into their cap space for this year and next (assuming that bad team has a ton of cap flexibility), so it could be a gamble worth taking.

Either way this is looking like a bust for PHI. They're fine in the long run but if they never take that "next step" then the Fultz/Tatum trade is what'll haunt them the most IMHO.

Also the Butler trade looks like a combination of PHI being desperate to stay with the top dogs in the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, etc.) but also a "compromise" for Fultz not working out.

Someone smart will trade a first for him.  He may have been overdrafted by a couple of spots but he's still a top 10 pick in that draft. 

20 year old pointguards with a 3:1 Assist to Turnover ratio don't stay on the market for very long.

Yeah, and those kind of 20-year old point guards RARELY hit the market to begin with.

Seems like a pretty big red flag that PHI traded for Butler and now seem desperate to trade Fultz so fast. Also he's seeing a shoulder specialist after supposedly spending all of last year and the summer trying to heal and correct his issues. He may even miss more significant time right now.

There isn't any evidence that the Sixers are trying to trade Fultz and Fultz's agent denied reports that he wants to be traded.  Maybe that changes after the results from these  specialist visits are known.  However trading for Butler actually lessens the pressure on Fultz and the Sixers.  The Sixers have their 3 stars now so they have the option of waiting on Fultz to get right or at least "better" so that they could selectively showcase him and try to increase his trade value.

It's pretty clear that you are not objective about things related to the 76ers so your opinion doesn't hold a lot of sway with me personally on this matter. I am genuinely curious from people that are a bit more objective on them.

That's funny.  I wasn't responding to a post of yours and yet you chose to respond to mine twice.  I'm not surprised that you don't find me objective given your total lack of objectivity. 

Just listened to Bobby Marks on the Woj pod.  They don't think the Sixers are looking to trade Fultz now because of their investment in him and the flashes of potential he's shown as well as his low value.  From Fultz's perspective, they think the Sixers may be the best place for him with the support he has from coach Brown and the players and the investment they've made in him whereas a new team is unlikely to be as patient or supportive.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/11/26/18113541/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-value-injury

Doesn't seem like he wants to be there. Take off the philly tinted glasses my man

[hpantazo]

The best place for Fultz is definitely not Phili. He needs to be on a non-playoff team that can give him starters minutes as the primary ball handler with zero pressure. A team like the Suns would be ideal

[Moranis]

The best place for Fultz is definitely not Phili. He needs to be on a non-playoff team that can give him starters minutes as the primary ball handler with zero pressure. A team like the Suns would be ideal

Phoenix does make sense, but what is the trade they could make as it would take more than Bender, but I'm not sure what else makes sense at all especially with Daniels being so bad this year.  Best I could do was Bender, Daniels, and Holmes for Fultz and I don't see why Philly would ultimately do that trade.  Now maybe if Phoenix has soured on Jackson with the addition of Bridges, maybe you just do Jackson for Fultz straight up.  That might actually work, but I suspect Jackson has more trade value than Fultz at the moment.

[Androslav]

A win/win trade I've been talking about for a couple weeks would be for Philly to trade Fultz and the Chandler expiring to the Cavs for George Hill and Kyle Korver (both have 2 years left on their deals). 

- Cavs get to take a chance on Fultz and shed some long-term salary.

- Philly gets some lethal shooting to put around SImmons.  George Hill is shooting 53% from the field and 48% from three.  Korver is well known as an elite shooter.  You trot out a line-up of Hill, Redick, Butler, Simmons and Embiid - you have basically 4 great shooters around Simmons. 

As-is, I think Philly is well positioned to beat the Raptors in the ECF, but that trade probably locks them in as the favorites.

The only reason Philly should NOT do that trade is because they are in line for max cap space this Summer to add a 4th star to pair with their 3 current all-stars.   

Considering there are unrestricted free agents like Durant, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay, Kyrie and Middleton this Summer - pairing one of them with Embiid, Simmons and Butler could swing the era.

I like the deal idea, makes a lot of sense to add shooting and experience. However, it would leave them thiner on at the wing position. I feel like you should never underestimate wing depth these days.

[celticsclay]

The best place for Fultz is definitely not Phili. He needs to be on a non-playoff team that can give him starters minutes as the primary ball handler with zero pressure. A team like the Suns would be ideal

Phoenix does make sense, but what is the trade they could make as it would take more than Bender, but I'm not sure what else makes sense at all especially with Daniels being so bad this year.  Best I could do was Bender, Daniels, and Holmes for Fultz and I don't see why Philly would ultimately do that trade.  Now maybe if Phoenix has soured on Jackson with the addition of Bridges, maybe you just do Jackson for Fultz straight up.  That might actually work, but I suspect Jackson has more trade value than Fultz at the moment.

Brand appeared visibly annoyed talking about the surprise medical withdraw from team activities announced by his agent. They might just want to take a flier on bender to wash their hands of the drama. It is way too much drama for a guy that is at best a backup point guard on your team and you probably don't want to pay next year anyways. I also agree a situation with Phoenix, where they also seem to have a great medical team, would be great for fultz.

[Big333223]

The best place for Fultz is definitely not Phili. He needs to be on a non-playoff team that can give him starters minutes as the primary ball handler with zero pressure. A team like the Suns would be ideal

The Suns should totally gamble on Fultz. Give Philly a 2nd rounder to take the kid off their hands.

I disagree on strategy, though. I say don't let him see the court until his shot looks ok in the practice gym. Part of the problem, I think, is Fultz needs to start earning his time. So far, he's been given too much, too soon and only had movement backwards. He needs to start from nothing and actually see progress.

[apc]

The best place for Fultz is definitely not Phili. He needs to be on a non-playoff team that can give him starters minutes as the primary ball handler with zero pressure. A team like the Suns would be ideal

Phoenix does make sense, but what is the trade they could make as it would take more than Bender, but I'm not sure what else makes sense at all especially with Daniels being so bad this year.  Best I could do was Bender, Daniels, and Holmes for Fultz and I don't see why Philly would ultimately do that trade.  Now maybe if Phoenix has soured on Jackson with the addition of Bridges, maybe you just do Jackson for Fultz straight up.  That might actually work, but I suspect Jackson has more trade value than Fultz at the moment.

Brand appeared visibly annoyed talking about the surprise medical withdraw from team activities announced by his agent. They might just want to take a flier on bender to wash their hands of the drama. It is way too much drama for a guy that is at best a backup point guard on your team and you probably don't want to pay next year anyways. I also agree a situation with Phoenix, where they also seem to have a great medical team, would be great for fultz.

Nothing medically wrong with him. all in his head. 

[slamtheking]

The best place for Fultz is definitely not Phili. He needs to be on a non-playoff team that can give him starters minutes as the primary ball handler with zero pressure. A team like the Suns would be ideal

The Suns should totally gamble on Fultz. Give Philly a 2nd rounder to take the kid off their hands.

I disagree on strategy, though. I say don't let him see the court until his shot looks ok in the practice gym. Part of the problem, I think, is Fultz needs to start earning his time. So far, he's been given too much, too soon and only had movement backwards. He needs to start from nothing and actually see progress.

G league.  of course if Philly did that and Fultz continued to look like crap for the season, what little trade value he has left would be gone.

[slamtheking]

The best place for Fultz is definitely not Phili. He needs to be on a non-playoff team that can give him starters minutes as the primary ball handler with zero pressure. A team like the Suns would be ideal

Phoenix does make sense, but what is the trade they could make as it would take more than Bender, but I'm not sure what else makes sense at all especially with Daniels being so bad this year.  Best I could do was Bender, Daniels, and Holmes for Fultz and I don't see why Philly would ultimately do that trade.  Now maybe if Phoenix has soured on Jackson with the addition of Bridges, maybe you just do Jackson for Fultz straight up.  That might actually work, but I suspect Jackson has more trade value than Fultz at the moment.

jackson definitely has more value than Fultz.  Unless Fultz shows improvement soon, Philly's looking at a lost cause that'll be just a salary dump if they move him this year.  right now, Bender for Fultz straight up would look pretty fair (if not an overpay for Phx since Bender can actually be put in a game).

just thankful every day that Danny is running this team and not a lot of the "expert draftniks" on this board (including me, a non-expert).

[Moranis]

The best place for Fultz is definitely not Phili. He needs to be on a non-playoff team that can give him starters minutes as the primary ball handler with zero pressure. A team like the Suns would be ideal

Phoenix does make sense, but what is the trade they could make as it would take more than Bender, but I'm not sure what else makes sense at all especially with Daniels being so bad this year.  Best I could do was Bender, Daniels, and Holmes for Fultz and I don't see why Philly would ultimately do that trade.  Now maybe if Phoenix has soured on Jackson with the addition of Bridges, maybe you just do Jackson for Fultz straight up.  That might actually work, but I suspect Jackson has more trade value than Fultz at the moment.

jackson definitely has more value than Fultz.  Unless Fultz shows improvement soon, Philly's looking at a lost cause that'll be just a salary dump if they move him this year.  right now, Bender for Fultz straight up would look pretty fair (if not an overpay for Phx since Bender can actually be put in a game).

just thankful every day that Danny is running this team and not a lot of the "expert draftniks" on this board (including me, a non-expert).

Bender has played in 6 games and has been awful in those 6 games.  What ever Fultz's trade value it is far in excess of Bender at this point.

[Erik]

The best place for Fultz is definitely not Phili. He needs to be on a non-playoff team that can give him starters minutes as the primary ball handler with zero pressure. A team like the Suns would be ideal

Phoenix does make sense, but what is the trade they could make as it would take more than Bender, but I'm not sure what else makes sense at all especially with Daniels being so bad this year.  Best I could do was Bender, Daniels, and Holmes for Fultz and I don't see why Philly would ultimately do that trade.  Now maybe if Phoenix has soured on Jackson with the addition of Bridges, maybe you just do Jackson for Fultz straight up.  That might actually work, but I suspect Jackson has more trade value than Fultz at the moment.

jackson definitely has more value than Fultz.  Unless Fultz shows improvement soon, Philly's looking at a lost cause that'll be just a salary dump if they move him this year.  right now, Bender for Fultz straight up would look pretty fair (if not an overpay for Phx since Bender can actually be put in a game).

just thankful every day that Danny is running this team and not a lot of the "expert draftniks" on this board (including me, a non-expert).

Bender has played in 6 games and has been awful in those 6 games.  What ever Fultz's trade value it is far in excess of Bender at this point.

Not exactly. Bender is owed nothing after this season. Fultz is still owed almost 10 mil next season. Considering the fact that I view both of them as players who aren't good enough to fit into an NBA rotation, Bender has a higher trade value in terms of expiring contract. Philly may have to include extra resources to dump Fultz's 10 mil cap hit. He might have negative trade value at this point.

[celticsclay]

The best place for Fultz is definitely not Phili. He needs to be on a non-playoff team that can give him starters minutes as the primary ball handler with zero pressure. A team like the Suns would be ideal

Phoenix does make sense, but what is the trade they could make as it would take more than Bender, but I'm not sure what else makes sense at all especially with Daniels being so bad this year.  Best I could do was Bender, Daniels, and Holmes for Fultz and I don't see why Philly would ultimately do that trade.  Now maybe if Phoenix has soured on Jackson with the addition of Bridges, maybe you just do Jackson for Fultz straight up.  That might actually work, but I suspect Jackson has more trade value than Fultz at the moment.

jackson definitely has more value than Fultz.  Unless Fultz shows improvement soon, Philly's looking at a lost cause that'll be just a salary dump if they move him this year.  right now, Bender for Fultz straight up would look pretty fair (if not an overpay for Phx since Bender can actually be put in a game).

just thankful every day that Danny is running this team and not a lot of the "expert draftniks" on this board (including me, a non-expert).

Bender has played in 6 games and has been awful in those 6 games.  What ever Fultz's trade value it is far in excess of Bender at this point.

Not exactly. Bender is owed nothing after this season. Fultz is still owed almost 10 mil next season. Considering the fact that I view both of them as players who aren't good enough to fit into an NBA rotation, Bender has a higher trade value in terms of expiring contract. Philly may have to include extra resources to dump Fultz's 10 mil cap hit. He might have negative trade value at this point.

Good be zero and zero. Not sure paying fultz 9 million next year is not a negative asset

[Phantom255x]

The Cavaliers and Suns are the two teams that make the most sense for a Fultz trade.

They could provide expirings to get it done but seeing how they are bad teams, I don't see them willingly giving up any first rounders either.

[CelticsElite]

The Philadelphia 76ers and the camp of Markelle Fultz are in disagreement over his continued shooting struggles.

A team source said Fultz's issues are "definitely the yips."

A source close to Fultz said he's hurt and suggested that his thumb his bothering him.

Fultz is independently being evaluated this week