Author Topic: The Bash Danny Ainge thread  (Read 19761 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #165 on: June 16, 2019, 09:52:35 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

  • John Havlicek
  • ****************************
  • Posts: 28041
  • Tommy Points: 638
  • MASTER OF PANIC
We all need to respect the fact now that maybe Rozier had a reason to be a malcontent. That maybe he is that player scary Terry who brought us close to the promised land. Lets see how things fall now that the ball is out of Kyrie hands.

I'm wondering if there is a bigger douce bag then Kyrie in Celtics history. I was a supporter of Kyrie up until the trae yesterday. Now we know Kyrie is gone.

This is the flickering hope I have to help me sleep at night after thinking about them bringing Terry back.

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #166 on: June 16, 2019, 09:54:50 AM »

Offline __ramonezy__

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 523
  • Tommy Points: 62
Since this is a Bash Danny thread... my main complaint is that he only tries to build contenders through trades... so things like player development, feels like it only matters to him in order to increase value of assets to flip. Kawhi will get the headlines, but the growth of Siakam was just as important to the Raptors.

With the bevy of draft picks we got, we should have realized that our next contending team will have to be built through the draft like GS as opposed to through trades like our Banner 17 team.

Well, by keeping Brown, Tatum, Smart and maybe Rozier, isn't that what we appear to be doing? Those guys are 21, 22, 25 and 25. Plus I think Williams has great upside.

I hope so... but far too often these players become "available" in trade talks... I can't ever remember Steph or Klay being "available"
Klay was nearly traded for Kevin Love IIRC
Apparently you're right.... but Jerry West wasn't having it

The Warriors’ front office, led by Myers, was initially reluctant to include Thompson in a deal, but they knew that they had to make a big move. Eventually, they justified making Thompson the main piece of the trade. It was a go.

There was one problem: NBA legend Jerry West, a Warriors advisor, wasn’t going to let it happen.

The Warriors passed on the trade at West’s request.

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #167 on: June 16, 2019, 09:55:28 AM »

Offline Birdman

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9170
  • Tommy Points: 412
Dont blame Ainge on Davis trade..blame Kyrie..if he said he would sign with us then Davis would b here..if Kyrie goes to LA he be public enemy #1
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #168 on: June 16, 2019, 10:39:08 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11226
  • Tommy Points: 860
In some ways, all this second guessing makes no sense.  So we trade for Kyrie and really give up pretty much nothing but a draft pick that turned out to be decent.  Then we have him for two seasons and people are criticizing Ainge for giving up so much and then losing him for nothing.

Now people are criticizing him for not giving up even more assets for Leonard or Davis who we would have for only one year with a high chance of losing them after that one year.  Both have appeared to be pretty clear that Boston is not where they want to be.

Leonard is likely to bolt Toronto and leave them.  He would have probably left Boston too.  Davis seems to have indicated that he was going to leave and go to LAL after the trade.  Kyrie was someone we had for two seasons, gave indications that he would consider Boston and now he is still leaving.

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #169 on: June 16, 2019, 10:53:12 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36776
  • Tommy Points: 2961
alright cheaper seat prices are back ...thanks Danny ...now i can afford to watch from the floor row as we get our brains bashed in by the Lakers 123 -90 .  LOL.   

Danny enables Lakers,to,win 3 more titles .


Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #170 on: June 16, 2019, 11:21:48 AM »

Offline Somebody

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7816
  • Tommy Points: 560
  • STAND FIRM, SAY NO TO VIBE MEN
So many hot takes. Ainge failed because Crowder pushed Hayward. Ainge failed because he misread how mature Kyrie is. Aine failed because like 14 other GMs he had no idea that the gangly, raw, 6'8 kid from Greece would transform into the best player in the NBA.

I fully expect the Celtics to be a much better team next year. The biggest problem this year was chemistry. Brad wants buy-in from everyone, and Kyrie never bought in, or at least only intermittently. He did his own thing, then when the team didn't win he threw the younger players under the bus. This naturally led to resentment and a fractured locker room. With far less talent than will be on the team next year Brad took the Celtics to back to back Eastern conference finals. Year 6 of a rebuild? Not winning a championship is a rebuild? We had several excellent years a series away from the finals and I expect that we'll have another deep playoff run next year once everyone buys in.

Someone predicted earlier in this thread, with utmost confidence, that Tatum and Brown will never be elite players. Never be superstar players. That we should have traded them for one-year rentals of established superstars. Absolutely the wrong move. Both could easily develop into top players in the NBA. If you look at the stats of many of the players at the pinnacle of the league now they compare very favorably.

First three years in the NBA
Kawaii: 7.9, 11.9, 12.8
Butler: 2.6. 8.6, 13.1
George: 7.8, 12.8, 17.4
Harden: 9.9, 12.2, 16.8

Brown: 6.6, 14.5, 13
Tatum: 13.9, 15.7

And Brown and Tatum had to defer to a domineering Kyrie on a team loaded with veterans (and Rozier) who always wanted shots. Ridiculous to claim that the Celtics will have no possibility of contention in the future when they have 2 of the best wings in the NBA for the foreseeable future.   

I'm excited. I want to see what the team can do when everyone buys in to the system and the young talent is allowed to flourish. The NBA is going to look very different next year - likely Kawaii, Durant, Butler, Kyrie and others are moving teams. How good will Toronto be without Kawaii? What happens if the Bucks lose Middleton? There's great opportunity here if the Celtics recover their scrappy roots that brought them to the ECF for two years. I don't want divas and malcontents. I want a hardworking team that supports each other and buys into the game plan. That's the best way forward, not throwing away a decade of competitiveness for one year of play from flaky superstars with feet already out the door.
Excellent post, but how does the NBA look cute, and how does Toronto lose its "cuteness"? (Kawaii=cute in Japanese) :laugh:
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #171 on: June 16, 2019, 11:34:24 AM »

Offline jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13002
  • Tommy Points: 1756
  • Everybody knows what's best for you
In some ways, all this second guessing makes no sense.  So we trade for Kyrie and really give up pretty much nothing but a draft pick that turned out to be decent.  Then we have him for two seasons and people are criticizing Ainge for giving up so much and then losing him for nothing.

Now people are criticizing him for not giving up even more assets for Leonard or Davis who we would have for only one year with a high chance of losing them after that one year.  Both have appeared to be pretty clear that Boston is not where they want to be.

Leonard is likely to bolt Toronto and leave them.  He would have probably left Boston too.  Davis seems to have indicated that he was going to leave and go to LAL after the trade.  Kyrie was someone we had for two seasons, gave indications that he would consider Boston and now he is still leaving.

I think the issue here is that if we had made a trade for say, Kawhi, our team would have been much better this year (see Toronto) and Kyrie would be looking to re-sign (even if Kawhi left). Instead, it was drama-central all year and Boston fans can't pack Kyrie's bags fast enough. An AD trade would then still be on the table - as Kyrie would be staying - and AD might be a lot more excited to join a stacked Boston team.

Instead, all of Danny's plans crumbled apart and he has nothing to show for his efforts except a couple of overpaid former all-stars and a decent, but unspectacular, young duo. We may literally have to start all over and that is disappointing given the alternative of what could have been. Who knew that the Hayward injury would have such repercussions?

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #172 on: June 16, 2019, 11:44:35 AM »

Offline Sketch5

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3224
  • Tommy Points: 280
In some ways, all this second guessing makes no sense.  So we trade for Kyrie and really give up pretty much nothing but a draft pick that turned out to be decent.  Then we have him for two seasons and people are criticizing Ainge for giving up so much and then losing him for nothing.

Now people are criticizing him for not giving up even more assets for Leonard or Davis who we would have for only one year with a high chance of losing them after that one year.  Both have appeared to be pretty clear that Boston is not where they want to be.

Leonard is likely to bolt Toronto and leave them.  He would have probably left Boston too.  Davis seems to have indicated that he was going to leave and go to LAL after the trade.  Kyrie was someone we had for two seasons, gave indications that he would consider Boston and now he is still leaving.

I think the issue here is that if we had made a trade for say, Kawhi, our team would have been much better this year (see Toronto) and Kyrie would be looking to re-sign (even if Kawhi left). Instead, it was drama-central all year and Boston fans can't pack Kyrie's bags fast enough. An AD trade would then still be on the table - as Kyrie would be staying - and AD might be a lot more excited to join a stacked Boston team.

Instead, all of Danny's plans crumbled apart and he has nothing to show for his efforts except a couple of overpaid former all-stars and a decent, but unspectacular, young duo. We may literally have to start all over and that is disappointing given the alternative of what could have been. Who knew that the Hayward injury would have such repercussions?

Was it ever said if DA didn't kick the tires on Kawhi? Maybe the asking price for the Celtics was hire than Toronto's since the C's have more to offer, and he didn't want to give up too many of the picks thinking that what NOLA would want and he was right. They got a ton of picks.

Plus at the time Kawhi didn't seem stable physically or mentally. He had a lot of the AD baggage with him. It's easy to pick at some one not doing something when you see the end results.

Plus I'm not sure Kawhi and Irving would see eye to eye. Kinda like he was on the outs with Brown. Brown and Kawhi are similar in that way were they are simple hard workers, who don't get into the fluff of what a lot of these superstars like to get into.

I love that Brown called Irving out with out actually calling him out when he said it was a team issue, not a young guys issue. Brown and Tatum played well the year before, and almost got the team to the finals. They have seen what it takes, yeah they have more to learn, but Irving should have been teaching, not complaining to the media.

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #173 on: June 16, 2019, 01:05:46 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11226
  • Tommy Points: 860
In some ways, all this second guessing makes no sense.  So we trade for Kyrie and really give up pretty much nothing but a draft pick that turned out to be decent.  Then we have him for two seasons and people are criticizing Ainge for giving up so much and then losing him for nothing.

Now people are criticizing him for not giving up even more assets for Leonard or Davis who we would have for only one year with a high chance of losing them after that one year.  Both have appeared to be pretty clear that Boston is not where they want to be.

Leonard is likely to bolt Toronto and leave them.  He would have probably left Boston too.  Davis seems to have indicated that he was going to leave and go to LAL after the trade.  Kyrie was someone we had for two seasons, gave indications that he would consider Boston and now he is still leaving.

I think the issue here is that if we had made a trade for say, Kawhi, our team would have been much better this year (see Toronto) and Kyrie would be looking to re-sign (even if Kawhi left). Instead, it was drama-central all year and Boston fans can't pack Kyrie's bags fast enough. An AD trade would then still be on the table - as Kyrie would be staying - and AD might be a lot more excited to join a stacked Boston team.

Instead, all of Danny's plans crumbled apart and he has nothing to show for his efforts except a couple of overpaid former all-stars and a decent, but unspectacular, young duo. We may literally have to start all over and that is disappointing given the alternative of what could have been. Who knew that the Hayward injury would have such repercussions?

So you are saying that if we had traded away some of our young talent for Kawhi, and then he leaves after one year, that somehow Kyrie is going to be more likely to stay with a team that now has less talent than it does now?  If you think this through, it makes no sense.

At the core of this, it is never going to make good sense to trade away talent like Brown or Tatum for one year rental, even players of the caliber of Davis and Leonard.  We traded far less talent for a 2-year rental of Kyrie and people are upset that he is leaving.

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #174 on: June 16, 2019, 02:48:51 PM »

Offline Bobshot

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2050
  • Tommy Points: 141
I think the assumption of a one year rental is perhaps a little stretched, so to speak. The Toronto President took a risk trading for Leonard, but the reward was great, and now there is some question to what Leonard will do. It is not automatic that these stars will go someplace else after the ultimate success. In fact, George defied the media's conventional wisdom by staying put in OKC rather than go to his "hometown" LA. And what did his agent say about that?

Maybe Ainge knew a bit more about Davis, though it's hard to know what a player will think a year from now after a successful season with his team mates. You take a chance in everything --especially in sports. What happened to Hayward a couple of years ago could happen to any  of the currently discussed principals this year. It's already happened to Durant.

There's another factor here not discussed. Ainge once said he shares personnel decisions with Stevens and Wyc (the latter mostly about money). That means Stevens has as much to say in trades and draft picks as Ainge does. An unusual level of responsibility for a young coach who has yet to accomplish much in the NBA.  What was Stevens input on Davis? And on trading Tatum? The way the media works, we''ll probably never know.

Whatever, I came out on the side of trading Tatum and Brown or Smart for Davis and signing Irving. That would have removed some of the logjam evident last year with Hayward, and maybe improve the chemistry. The way it is, they have the same chemistry problems they had last season , excepting Irving vs Rozier. And there, Ainge may well get another PG like Conley rather than re-sign Rozier. He could even go for CP3 in a package with Capela, though Paul's age and contract are prohibitive.  And then, what does Stevens think of Capela? Not exactly his brand of big, but in my view what the doctor is prescribing.

I wish I were more optimistic about the current team than some of the optimists here. Especially if Leonard stays in Toronto.

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #175 on: June 16, 2019, 02:56:52 PM »

Offline ozgod

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16788
  • Tommy Points: 1362
Everyone moaning about Danny not pulling the trigger on this thread would have been moaning twice as loud if AD had left in free agency next year and we gave up a lot for him. There's such a thing as managing risk. I'm sure if Danny could have gotten away with paying cheap for AD he would have but he's a victim of his own assets. LA paid a huge price and gutted their team to get AD, even if they could have gotten AD for free in the summer of 2020.

That's the amount of pressure LeBum exerts on an organization, he's willing to cripple its future to win now. If Danny had done the same and given away our future everyone here who's moaning and ****ing would be calling for his head and rightfully so.

Everyone moaning about missed deals (PG13, Kawhi, etc) is making themselves look like geniuses with the benefit of hindsight. Let's check all the posts from a year ago and see what people were saying at the time. Most people were high on Hayward, there was an enormous thread on trying to sign him. Most people thought PG13 was a flight risk. As for Kawhi, people were referring to Jaylen as Kawhi-lite and didn't want to give him, let alone others, up for a year of Kawhi, given people thought he was damaged goods and nobody knew Kawhi's injury situation and why conditions deteriorated between him and Pop so quickly. Masai was in a different situation, his team had been swept out of the playoffs 3 years in a row, he knew he wasn't getting it done with DeRozan. While with us, take yourselves back to this time last year, the future was bright, we made it to the ECF and we had Kyrie and Hayward coming back.

Nobody could have foreseen Hayward's injury, which led to the series of events, including the overachievement in 2018 that ultimately culminated in the chemistry issues in 2019, which led to Kyrie wanting to leave, which then made trading the future of the franchise for AD too much of a risk. You do your best to position your team to make deals but you also have to have the judgment to know if they are good deals to make.

Where Danny has a case to answer is in sitting still last season and holding all the assets to try to make a run for AD as a result the season spiraled out of control. As expectations weren't met, and the pressure from the media and fans increased, Kyrie became moody, young guys chafed at less responsibility, Hayward struggled to make his mark, too much hero ball was played and everyone started blaming each other. He should have stepped in at the trade deadline and made changes to correct things. He may have lost an asset or two but we would have kept Kyrie, which would have helped with the pursuit of AD or at least we would have retained control of Kyrie as an asset to trade him later on instead of him walking away for nothing.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #176 on: June 16, 2019, 03:01:16 PM »

Offline mctyson

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5087
  • Tommy Points: 372
In some ways, all this second guessing makes no sense.  So we trade for Kyrie and really give up pretty much nothing but a draft pick that turned out to be decent.  Then we have him for two seasons and people are criticizing Ainge for giving up so much and then losing him for nothing.

Now people are criticizing him for not giving up even more assets for Leonard or Davis who we would have for only one year with a high chance of losing them after that one year.  Both have appeared to be pretty clear that Boston is not where they want to be.

Leonard is likely to bolt Toronto and leave them.  He would have probably left Boston too.  Davis seems to have indicated that he was going to leave and go to LAL after the trade.  Kyrie was someone we had for two seasons, gave indications that he would consider Boston and now he is still leaving.

I think the issue here is that if we had made a trade for say, Kawhi, our team would have been much better this year (see Toronto) and Kyrie would be looking to re-sign (even if Kawhi left). Instead, it was drama-central all year and Boston fans can't pack Kyrie's bags fast enough. An AD trade would then still be on the table - as Kyrie would be staying - and AD might be a lot more excited to join a stacked Boston team.

Instead, all of Danny's plans crumbled apart and he has nothing to show for his efforts except a couple of overpaid former all-stars and a decent, but unspectacular, young duo. We may literally have to start all over and that is disappointing given the alternative of what could have been. Who knew that the Hayward injury would have such repercussions?

That is a major assumption.

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #177 on: June 16, 2019, 03:03:19 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

  • John Havlicek
  • ****************************
  • Posts: 28041
  • Tommy Points: 638
  • MASTER OF PANIC
alright cheaper seat prices are back ...thanks Danny ...now i can afford to watch from the floor row as we get our brains bashed in by the Lakers 123 -90 .  LOL.   

Danny enables Lakers,to,win 3 more titles .

I will give you every TP point I every get if the Lakers win 3 titles with this group

Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #178 on: June 16, 2019, 03:03:45 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
told some of your folks that Celtics were not going to trade Tatum for AD

Lakers had the best package (starting from last season deadline)

After all of these years I'm surprised that many Celts fans still don't understand how ainge/wyc operate


Re: The Bash Danny Ainge thread
« Reply #179 on: June 16, 2019, 03:07:44 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6147
  • Tommy Points: 722
Ainge couldn't draft his way out of a paper bag.

He drafted Olynyk over Giannis????!!

Bwahahahaha

Nice going, number 44!
Guess all the other GM's who selected other players ahead of Giannis are bad drafters too then

Mommy, all the other kids jumped off the bridge, so I did too.

Hey man...this is the bash Danny Ainge thread. I'm letting off some steam
Just seems like an old gripe to be bashing him over.
Bashing him for not pursuing PG13, Butler or Kawhi because he was waiting for AD, only to get outbid makes more sense to me, but whatever

Paul George maybe, but we are loaded with wings and he bonded with Westbrook as much as the city. May not have happened here and he leaves. Kawahi is a complete crapshoot, he is 50/50 at best to stay with Toronto and Butler is almost as disruptive to team chemistry as Kyrie.
The Four Celtic Generals:
Russell - Cowens - Bird - Garnett

The Four Celtic Lieutenants:
Cousy - Havlicek - McHale - Pierce