Author Topic: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete (Merged)  (Read 25410 times)

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Offline celticsclay

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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22117829/multiple-cleveland-cavaliers-players-acknowledge-growing-discontent-concern-current-state-team

This is great stuff to watch. "Several prominent players, speaking on condition of anonymity to ESPN, Cleveland.com and The Athletic, expressed doubt that the problems -- an aging roster, defensively challenged personnel and a glut of redundant role players -- could simply be worked out through patience and a chance to coalesce when fully healthy."

Also same article, Lue on Thomas:

"I just want him to take the shots that are given to him," said Cavs coach Tyronn Lue. "Not forcing shots, but if someone, whoever is on the team that can shoot the basketball, if they're open 21 times, then take your shots. It's not about the amount of shots, it's the amount of good shots. If they're your shots then you've got to be ready to take them."
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 03:23:33 PM by Donoghus »

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2018, 12:51:56 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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Thomas does not fit in Cleveland. His game, nor his attitude. Would not be surprised if he is shipped out. Plus IT looks slow and runs with a shuffle. He is not even close to the same guy. If he isn't traded, I think at some point in the future he gets shutdown for surgery

Cavs are an old, tired, ill constructed team full of aging players that all do the same thing. They are slow and do not play defense at all.


Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2018, 12:54:49 PM »

Online Donoghus

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You can't count out that team as long as they have Lebron.  Especially in a flawed Eastern Conference.


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Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 12:59:30 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I wouldn't count them out either but this really is starting to feel like a "creaking toward a disappointing finish full of infighting and LeBron subtly mailing it in when it counts" kinda deal. Which historically has been a bit of a specialty of LeBron's.

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2018, 01:00:40 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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This Cavs team is constructed exactly like the 2010 Cavs team that featured old Vets James hand picked (Jamison, Shaq, Anthony Parker, Mo Williams)

Heard the same kind of stuff all year with that group and in the end LBJ quit and left town

The Cavs are not the same without Kyrie. Period.


Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 01:03:05 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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A whole bunch of stuff came out this morning. Here's another from Joe Vardon of Cleveland.com:

Quote
"Rotations are awful. IT (Isaiah Thomas) is so much worse than Kyrie (Irving) defensively it's insane," said a league source. "There is not a great feeling anywhere. They need to limp into the All-Star break and get away from each other."

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 01:04:59 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Wow now Windhorst is piling on saying the Cavs could learn from the Spurs in how they handled Aldridge's trade request. One you see Lebron's personal fan biographer bashing the front office of Cleveland its pretty clear to me Lebron won't be sticking around (more than anything else i have seen or read)

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22110844/how-cleveland-cavaliers-san-antonio-spurs-handled-trade-demands-worlds-apart

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 01:08:24 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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A whole bunch of stuff came out this morning. Here's another from Joe Vardon of Cleveland.com:

Quote
"Rotations are awful. IT (Isaiah Thomas) is so much worse than Kyrie (Irving) defensively it's insane," said a league source. "There is not a great feeling anywhere. They need to limp into the All-Star break and get away from each other."

Some nuggets on Thomas from this article: "In the meantime, Thomas continues to struggle to shoot as he works his way back from seven months off due to hip injuries.

Thomas was 8-of-21 shooting against the Warriors and finished with 19 points. Thomas again mentioned the Cavs "don't practice" -- an apparent shot at the organization considering the number of times he's mentioned it over the past several days. He's continually cited a lack of practice as the reason he's playing his way into shape.

Thomas put up the most shots of any Cavs player on Monday, and his teammates said it is his role to shoot. But at the same time, their patience is being tested as the losses mount and the rhythm they had at both ends of the court when they won 18 of 19 games is gone."

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2018, 01:10:28 PM »

Offline jackpercussion

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They are just noticing that Thomas is worse than Irving?  Really?  The Cavs have some terrible scouts.  If they didn't know that Thomas was a terrible defensive player last year when healthy, than they were in for a rude awakening.   Smart covered for many of his shortcomings.  However, the Cavs do not have a "Smart" on their team.  Good luck Cavs.  HaHa

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 01:14:13 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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If you do not allow Thomas to be a volume shooter while he is on the court, he is pointless being out there. Boston made it work because he was the go to guy.

Thomas is not the go to guy in Cleveland. James is not going to defer to him.

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 01:14:29 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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They are just noticing that Thomas is worse than Irving?  Really?  The Cavs have some terrible scouts.  If they didn't know that Thomas was a terrible defensive player last year when healthy, than they were in for a rude awakening.   Smart covered for many of his shortcomings.  However, the Cavs do not have a "Smart" on their team.  Good luck Cavs.  HaHa

Remember the Cavs don't just have IT out there trying to play D, they have IT with a surgically repaired hip, working his way into game shape and possibly overly focused on his next contract out there trying to play D. We also based much of our defensive schemes on covering up for IT; schemes that don't do that will leave him exposed far more often.

Basically however bad he was for us last year he's very likely even worse this year.

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2018, 01:23:10 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Can the Cavs TRADE IT and Crowder at mid season ? 

maybe trade Smith , Crowder , IT , TT ,  Shump .....some combo of these players and their 2018 own pick .

They are not going to pay IT anywhere near whatbhe is dreaming of .....he is net zero gain on the court ...what he scores on offense , he can't jump or sprint like he used to.....so he gets destroyed by taller jump shooters ......IMO .....he is no help ....Warrior shot right over him like he was not even there.  IT can't help Cavs beat Warriors ....plain and simple he is a liability on defense.  Warriors have long tall jump shooters that can get their shot over IT any moment they need to.  KD , Livingston, Swaggy ,  Iggy , not to mention Curry and Thompson .....IT. can't stop anybody they got.

I'd trade IT .....he will be the same problem f ....what to do issue with him as he was with Celtics come contract time.  If Lebron leaves , you don't waste max money on IT or build arou d him.....they should trade him now for a somebody that can alter shots on defense.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 01:29:12 PM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2018, 01:29:05 PM »

Offline Valid

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They are just noticing that Thomas is worse than Irving?  Really?  The Cavs have some terrible scouts.  If they didn't know that Thomas was a terrible defensive player last year when healthy, than they were in for a rude awakening.   Smart covered for many of his shortcomings.  However, the Cavs do not have a "Smart" on their team.  Good luck Cavs.  HaHa
Except he's not worse than Irving. He's just not nearly as healthy, and there is a good chance we will never see the same IT ever again.

The Cavaliers' defense isn't bad because of Isaiah Thomas. He has barely even played this year. Their defense is bad because they don't have a single elite defensive player on their roster. Having Thomas in the starting lineup certainly doesn't help, but there is no other point guard in the league who could turn Cleveland into even a mediocre defensive ballclub, let alone one that can seriously challenge Golden State in the finals.

Replace IT with Kyrie on that team, and its defense is still 29th in the league.

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2018, 01:29:20 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Can the Cavs TRADE IT and Crowder at mid season ? 

maybe trade Smith , Crowder , IT , TT ,  Shump .....some combo of these players and their 2018 own pick .

They are not going to pay IT anywhere near whatbhe is dreaming of .....he is net zero gain .....what he scores on offense , he can't jump or sprint like he used to.....so he gets destroyed by taller jump shooters ......IMO .....he is no help ....Warrior shot right over him like he was not even there.

I'd trade IT .....he will be the same problem f ....what to do issue with him as he was with Celtics come contract time.  If Lebron leaves , you don't waste max money on IT or build arou d him.....they should trade him.
The players you mention, are all playing well below their potential and due to factors like contracts wont fetch nearly equivalent talent in a trade.

You have to hope the Crowder and Thompson get their act together and that IT shakes this rust off and returns to form. I think you could afford to trade Crowder, Thompson or JR, but trading IT will almost certainly drive down your total talent level.

If they want to get better the assets going out the door will be the Brooklyn pick and Cedi Osman.
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Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2018, 01:30:50 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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They are just noticing that Thomas is worse than Irving?  Really?  The Cavs have some terrible scouts.  If they didn't know that Thomas was a terrible defensive player last year when healthy, than they were in for a rude awakening.   Smart covered for many of his shortcomings.  However, the Cavs do not have a "Smart" on their team.  Good luck Cavs.  HaHa
Except he's not worse than Irving. He's just not nearly as healthy, and there is a good chance we will never see the same IT ever again.

The Cavaliers' defense isn't bad because of Isaiah Thomas. He has barely even played this year. Their defense is bad because they don't have a single elite defensive player on their roster. Having Thomas in the starting lineup certainly doesn't help, but there is no other point guard in the league who could turn Cleveland into even a mediocre defensive ballclub, let alone one that can seriously challenge Golden State in the finals.

Replace IT with Kyrie on that team, and its defense is still 29th in the league.
Irving is way better than Thomas on defense. Really dont think that is too too controversial of an opinion.

last year the Cavs defense finished 21st in the league.
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