Star Wars (shows and streaming)...

[Roy H.]

Andor and Obi-Wan got Emmy nominations for best drama and best limited series.  Nothing for Mandalorian, which feels correct to me.  Andor was the best thing I watched last year, regardless of genre.

I wasn't nearly that high on Andor, but I did think it ended up being quite good after an initial lull.

I didn't care as much for Obi-Wan.  It had the potential to be great, but I think they pulled punches while detracting from the lore of Vader.

I feel like they had a real tight window to work with regarding Obi-Wan.  There wasn't much wiggle room to what they could do creatively that wouldn't screw up canon. 

In retrospect, they probably should've just left it alone and did nothing although it was great to see McGregor and Christenson again

Yeah, I think that's right.

It's possible to explore a lot more Vader, but I think the way to do that was through animation.  And, I don't think fans want stories that add a bunch of nuance there.  Sometimes, it's okay to make your Big Bad ruthless and evil.  It's sort of the whole idea of being consumed with the dark side, until he redeems himself in ROTJ.  This is the dude who kills padawans and has completely turned over to the Sith.

And Obi-wan isn't a sentimental bleeding heart, nor are Vader and the Grand Inquisitor. 

[obnoxiousmime]

Andor and Obi-Wan got Emmy nominations for best drama and best limited series.  Nothing for Mandalorian, which feels correct to me.  Andor was the best thing I watched last year, regardless of genre.

I wasn't nearly that high on Andor, but I did think it ended up being quite good after an initial lull.

I didn't care as much for Obi-Wan.  It had the potential to be great, but I think they pulled punches while detracting from the lore of Vader.

I feel like they had a real tight window to work with regarding Obi-Wan.  There wasn't much wiggle room to what they could do creatively that wouldn't screw up canon. 

In retrospect, they probably should've just left it alone and did nothing although it was great to see McGregor and Christenson again

Yeah, I think that's right.

It's possible to explore a lot more Vader, but I think the way to do that was through animation.  And, I don't think fans want stories that add a bunch of nuance there.  Sometimes, it's okay to make your Big Bad ruthless and evil.  It's sort of the whole idea of being consumed with the dark side, until he redeems himself in ROTJ.  This is the dude who kills padawans and has completely turned over to the Sith.

And Obi-wan isn't a sentimental bleeding heart, nor are Vader and the Grand Inquisitor.

I'm not saying anyone here falls under the description of being an older fan, because that would be a rude assumption! HOWEVER it was interesting to me that Obi-Wan clearly was produced and marketed more as a sequel to Episodes 1-3 as opposed to being a prequel to 4-6. To younger fans that grew up on the prequel trilogy, this was the dominant version of the characters they knew and canon inconsistencies with the original trilogy simply don't matter as much to them. For those older fans that still cling to their childhood Ewok blankie at night and watch the Christmas special regularly on an old VHS tape, of course Obi-Wan is barely going to make sense. So he wasn't really in hiding after all and he was working as some kind of sushi apprentice in the middle of the desert? And random jedis in hiding could easily find him while Vader and the Emperor never could? It was easier to accept some of these extended Filoni-verse stories when they were limited to animation (or even the older novels), but now we're seeing the original actors in live action doing things we find hard to reconcile.

Anyway, as someone mentioned the show was rushed due to Covid and that was probably the biggest reason for the shoddy result. I don't really nitpick canon as much anymore since it's a futile proposition, but a show still has to be consistent on its own terms. Andor was a lot more successful in that respect, but it did strike me as funny that maybe one of the reasons it seemed so fresh is because it wasn't Star Wars at all. They solved the problem of making new Star Wars stories by totally not making it like Star Wars!

Oh, and it's widely expected Kennedy is going to gracefully retire/resign (i.e. fired) sometime this year.

[kraidstar]

Andor and Obi-Wan got Emmy nominations for best drama and best limited series.  Nothing for Mandalorian, which feels correct to me.  Andor was the best thing I watched last year, regardless of genre.

I wasn't nearly that high on Andor, but I did think it ended up being quite good after an initial lull.

I didn't care as much for Obi-Wan.  It had the potential to be great, but I think they pulled punches while detracting from the lore of Vader.

I feel like they had a real tight window to work with regarding Obi-Wan.  There wasn't much wiggle room to what they could do creatively that wouldn't screw up canon. 

In retrospect, they probably should've just left it alone and did nothing although it was great to see McGregor and Christenson again

It still could have been good though. The acting, dialogue, sets, and characters just aren't as convincing as they should be.

In "Obi-wan" we see members of the Path, oppressed Imperial citizens on the run from the government. They are so boring and vanilla, you could seamlessly swap them out with similarly lazy characters from Star Trek: Insurrection or a dozen other mediocre fantasy efforts.

Compare that with the disillusioned, downtrodden populace in "Andor," or the gritty, determined rebels from the OT. "Obi-wan" lacks that talented touch to bring the characters to life in such a way that you actually care.

And the CGI.... man. For those who don't know, Disney abuses a technology called "the Volume," which is a literal physical wall which surrounds their sets like a giant wraparound TV. The actors get the advantage of being able to "see" a desert background etc. But in reality it means the actual immediate set is extremely limited, and what they're doing is glorified green screen work.

Note that "Andor" did NOT use this tech.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/20/how-the-mandalorian-and-ilm-invisibly-reinvented-film-and-tv-production/

One other quibble: where are the British actors? One of Star Wars' great strengths in the OT was all the British talent. And I'm not just talking about Alec Guinness or Peter Cushing. A lot of the lesser characters were played by British actors, in particular the Imperials. You could feel the class/power disparity just in the accents. I know it's a trope, but it works.

[kraidstar]

Book of Boba Fett was my big disappointment.

Same.

Ugh. They totally emasculated Fett in that one. It would have worked much better as a mob/intrigue vehicle than the weird altruistic action hero stuff.

Fett's hijacking of the Tattooine organized crime syndicates was as unearned as anything you'll ever see. The series instead could have shown him re-earning his stripes with the morally ambiguous behavior we have come to expect from him,  but then undermining and eventually overthrowing the guile-less Bib Fortuna once it became clear that Fortuna's cowardice threatened the whole planet.

Could have been a great arc. Instead we get Space Moses leading emo kids on power rangers bikes.

[obnoxiousmime]

Book of Boba Fett was my big disappointment.

Same.

Ugh. They totally emasculated Fett in that one. It would have worked much better as a mob/intrigue vehicle than the weird altruistic action hero stuff.

Fett's hijacking of the Tattooine organized crime syndicates was as unearned as anything you'll ever see. The series instead could have shown him re-earning his stripes with the morally ambiguous behavior we have come to expect from him,  but then undermining and eventually overthrowing the guile-less Bib Fortuna once it became clear that Fortuna's cowardice threatened the whole planet.

Could have been a great arc. Instead we get Space Moses leading emo kids on power rangers bikes.

The worst part was they spent time humanizing the Tusken Raiders as more than just bloodthirsty savages (without actually ever showing their faces because that would cost more money), but then wiped out the entire tribe to give Boba a sense of injustice and the vengeance motivation.

[Celtics4ever]

The best part of Book of Boba Fett was the wookie

Andor did start slow but did pick up, I agree.   Cassian is an interesting character

I thought they made Obi Wan a little too PTSD in his show.   We all know Vader is a bad mofo but ripping up a starship with the force?    Why even build the deathstar? But he had not trouble going to the Deathstar as a weak old man . McGregor was excellent can act and is the best actor in the whole history of Star Wars in my opinion.   His channeling Alec Guinness  voice is amazing.   Alec could really act but was just collecting a paycheck for Star Wars

[obnoxiousmime]

Andor and Obi-Wan got Emmy nominations for best drama and best limited series.  Nothing for Mandalorian, which feels correct to me.  Andor was the best thing I watched last year, regardless of genre.

I wasn't nearly that high on Andor, but I did think it ended up being quite good after an initial lull.

I didn't care as much for Obi-Wan.  It had the potential to be great, but I think they pulled punches while detracting from the lore of Vader.

I feel like they had a real tight window to work with regarding Obi-Wan.  There wasn't much wiggle room to what they could do creatively that wouldn't screw up canon. 

In retrospect, they probably should've just left it alone and did nothing although it was great to see McGregor and Christenson again

It still could have been good though. The acting, dialogue, sets, and characters just aren't as convincing as they should be.

In "Obi-wan" we see members of the Path, oppressed Imperial citizens on the run from the government. They are so boring and vanilla, you could seamlessly swap them out with similarly lazy characters from Star Trek: Insurrection or a dozen other mediocre fantasy efforts.

Compare that with the disillusioned, downtrodden populace in "Andor," or the gritty, determined rebels from the OT. "Obi-wan" lacks that talented touch to bring the characters to life in such a way that you actually care.

And the CGI.... man. For those who don't know, Disney abuses a technology called "the Volume," which is a literal physical wall which surrounds their sets like a giant wraparound TV. The actors get the advantage of being able to "see" a desert background etc. But in reality it means the actual immediate set is extremely limited, and what they're doing is glorified green screen work.

Note that "Andor" did NOT use this tech.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/20/how-the-mandalorian-and-ilm-invisibly-reinvented-film-and-tv-production/

One other quibble: where are the British actors? One of Star Wars' great strengths in the OT was all the British talent. And I'm not just talking about Alec Guinness or Peter Cushing. A lot of the lesser characters were played by British actors, in particular the Imperials. You could feel the class/power disparity just in the accents. I know it's a trope, but it works.

You're right. I've long lamented the decision to shift SW TV production to LA as opposed to sticking with the UK or Australia. It makes a big difference, even if it's not immediately obvious to the layman. The "otherworldliness" factor is diminished on these shows, to which the sometimes poor CG and overreliance on Stagecraft and lack of physical sets is also a contributing factor. I also get the impression that Favreau is hanging around LA offering cameos to his celebrity buddies and trumpeting the fact that this technology allows them to finish the day's shoot and still make their 7pm reservation at Tower Bar or wherever.

I understand shooting in Tunisia is not going to be as feasible for a TV show, but that begs the question: Do we really need a compromised and cheaper version of SW? We used to be given the full theater version and we waited for it and paid a premium in movie tickets. Now, we get a product that is lesser and actually has to have a LONGER runtime than a typical 2 hr movie. Are people just going to keep consuming a watered-down product because it has the SW brand name on it? This is a larger question that includes franchises like Marvel, LOTR, Star Trek, and more.

[Roy H.]

Ahsoka...

I thought the first two episodes were pretty boring.  A lot of sitting around and talking.  Hopefully it gets better.

For fans who haven't watched Rebels, they've got to be bored *and* confused right now, right? 

[mobilija]

[Donoghus]

Watched the first episode last night.  Will watch episode 2 tonight.

I really need to go back & rewatch Rebels.  It's been forever.  I vaguely remember the last season but familiarity with that series looks like will definitely go a long way here.

I wonder how much, if any, they'll pull from Zahn's Thrawn trilogy.

[Roy H.]

I wonder how much, if any, they'll pull from Zahn's Thrawn trilogy.

I wish LucasFilm had just made those movies, or had put out animated versions before filming the sequel trilogy.  I get the sense that they didn't want to cast a different actor as Luke, but they easily could have made the animated movies and then explained away Mara Jade's absence if they wanted to bring back an older Luke for the sequels.

They've definitely stolen ideas from the various books, but they should have just gone whole hog. 

[Donoghus]

I wonder how much, if any, they'll pull from Zahn's Thrawn trilogy.

I wish LucasFilm had just made those movies, or had put out animated versions before filming the sequel trilogy.  I get the sense that they didn't want to cast a different actor as Luke, but they easily could have made the animated movies and then explained away Mara Jade's absence if they wanted to bring back an older Luke for the sequels.

They've definitely stolen ideas from the various books, but they should have just gone whole hog.

Anything would've been better than the sequel trilogy they ended up handing us. 

Would've loved to see Lucas' original vision for the sequel trilogy.

[Roy H.]

I wonder how much, if any, they'll pull from Zahn's Thrawn trilogy.

I wish LucasFilm had just made those movies, or had put out animated versions before filming the sequel trilogy.  I get the sense that they didn't want to cast a different actor as Luke, but they easily could have made the animated movies and then explained away Mara Jade's absence if they wanted to bring back an older Luke for the sequels.

They've definitely stolen ideas from the various books, but they should have just gone whole hog.

Anything would've been better than the sequel trilogy they ended up handing us. 

Would've loved to see Lucas' original vision for the sequel trilogy.

The script I read that I thought would have been awesome was the original concept for the Obi Wan movie.  That got watered down into the streaming series, which was a bit disappointing.

[kraidstar]

I wonder how much, if any, they'll pull from Zahn's Thrawn trilogy.

I wish LucasFilm had just made those movies, or had put out animated versions before filming the sequel trilogy.  I get the sense that they didn't want to cast a different actor as Luke, but they easily could have made the animated movies and then explained away Mara Jade's absence if they wanted to bring back an older Luke for the sequels.

They've definitely stolen ideas from the various books, but they should have just gone whole hog.

100%.

I've read quite a few of the Star Wars novels, and, while they vary in quality, they are all better than the dreck Disney has been producing.

As to your point about not wanting to recast Luke etc in  a Thrawn Trilogy adaption, they could have rewritten the OT characters into minor supporting roles, and given the main roles to their children/new characters.

You have to wonder about their motivations in jettisoning Zahn and others' work in favor of hacks like JJ Abrams. Do they want complete control so they don't have to pay royalties for what has been created before? Or are they simply so arrogant that they thought anything they created would be good? Or did they not ever care about quality, even if it meant diminishing one of the most valuable IPs in existence?

It's mystifying.

[dannyboy35]

  I love the sci fi and fantasy genre and no movies were more dear to my heart than Star Wars . But I think these shows are just too goofy and inconsistent in tone. Sometimes I feel like it’s Sessame Street. They’ve messed up Luke to where I don’t think it can be fixed. That’s on Favreau and Filoni as well, IMO.
   Luke offering Grogu “ the choice “ was as if he didn’t save his dad through attachment. I just think it’s not the Luke from the OT SINCE the OT. I don’t think there’s any fixing that now. To me, that’s terrible writing. Luke apparently learned nothing.
  Then there’s endless people getting driven through with a lightsaber and surviving. It’s really dumb IMHO.
   I’ll look to Dune and see what Rebel Moon is about. I just like stuff that takes itself seriously. Just my tastes. I’m bummed out what has happened to Star Wars.