Author Topic: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?  (Read 4316 times)

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Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« on: May 23, 2019, 10:12:40 AM »

Offline Silky

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Apparently Phoenix is strongly considering trading back in draft lottery to add a vet.

What could Boston do to make this a real possibility.

Hayward and 20 for Warren, Johnson and 6th?

Hayward and 14 for 6th, Warren and jackson

Rozier and 14 for 6th and Jackson?

All would make a deal for Davis alot easier, and all improve team should Kyrie not resign.

Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2019, 10:16:19 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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We aren't getting positive value for Hayward and if they want Rozier they can just pay him.

As a side note I have no desire for Josh Jackson or TJ Warren.

EDIT:

To clarify I don't want them for different reasons. Josh Jackson can't shoot and hasn't shown signs of living up to his talent/billing/draft slot.

TJ Warren is a wing I wouldn't mind having at all, if Jaylen/Jason didn't need those minutes and shots. If we're giving run to a younger wing I want it to be one of those two.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 10:24:53 AM by Fafnir »

Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2019, 10:33:32 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I'm not understanding the fascination with getting the #6 pick in a fairly weak draft - especially at the expense of Hayward.  I know he didn't bounce back as hoped for this season but he did pick it up as the season progressed.  I'd like to see what he can bring to the table next season with presumably several more months of recovery and also presuming roster changes where players fit together better.

during the season where Rozier's shown he's not a player that should stay here, I've thought Phx would be a prime place for him to land as a FA.  Could see him in Chicago or Orlando too.

Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2019, 04:49:55 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I would rather keep Hayward

Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 05:04:36 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Nothing I've heard about this draft suggests that it would be worth giving up much value to move from 14 to 6.
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Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2019, 05:10:47 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Nothing I've heard about this draft suggests that it would be worth giving up much value to move from 14 to 6.
Bingo. And Phoenix saying they want to move back pretty much shows they feel the same way. After Zion and Morant, I do not see much of anything in this draft.

Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2019, 05:38:22 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Nothing I've heard about this draft suggests that it would be worth giving up much value to move from 14 to 6.
Bingo. And Phoenix saying they want to move back pretty much shows they feel the same way. After Zion and Morant, I do not see much of anything in this draft.


I would point out that people said much the same thing about the 2013 draft, and a couple of All-NBA caliber talents ended up being drafted outside the top 10 in that draft.

There are probably really valuable players that will be available in range of where the Celts are picking in this draft.

In that sense, having three picks plus #51 is a positive, because they'll have multiple chances to snag a diamond in the rough.


That's assuming they end up keeping all the picks, though, which seems pretty unlikely.  But who knows.
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Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 05:42:19 PM »

Offline liam

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Pick number 6 in a new player draft is not very valuable. I think it's a pretty flat draft from pick 3-30...

Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 05:55:40 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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Apparently Phoenix is strongly considering trading back in draft lottery to add a vet.

What could Boston do to make this a real possibility.

Hayward and 20 for Warren, Johnson and 6th?

Hayward and 14 for 6th, Warren and jackson

Rozier and 14 for 6th and Jackson?

All would make a deal for Davis alot easier, and all improve team should Kyrie not resign.
These are the type of trade proposals that get opposing teams fans annoyed with Celtics fans...

For 14 and Hayward you’d be happy to get expiring contract and an exception

Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2019, 07:12:51 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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I'm not sure that I agree with the sentiment that this draft dies at 3. I have the tiers looking something like.

S Tier
Zion

AAA Tier
No one

AA tier
Ja Morant

A Tier
RJ Barrett

B+ Tier
Jarrett Culver
Darius Garland(if his medicals are solid)
Cam Reddish(has risen back up as a prospect in my eyes might be A- tier by draft night)

B Tier
DeAndre Hunter
Sekou Doumboyah

B- Tier
Coby White

C+ Tier
Nassir Little
Bol Bol
Rui Hachimura
Brandon Clarke
Goga Biadtze
Romeo Langford

C- Tier
Everyone else until about pick 22

The point is that walking away with one of Hunter, Reddish, Garland or Doumboyah would absolutely be worth giving up assets to move up to 6.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 07:19:01 PM by Smartacus »

Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2019, 08:10:46 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Nothing I've heard about this draft suggests that it would be worth giving up much value to move from 14 to 6.
Bingo. And Phoenix saying they want to move back pretty much shows they feel the same way. After Zion and Morant, I do not see much of anything in this draft.


I would point out that people said much the same thing about the 2013 draft, and a couple of All-NBA caliber talents ended up being drafted outside the top 10 in that draft.

There are probably really valuable players that will be available in range of where the Celts are picking in this draft.

In that sense, having three picks plus #51 is a positive, because they'll have multiple chances to snag a diamond in the rough.


That's assuming they end up keeping all the picks, though, which seems pretty unlikely.  But who knows.
I can just as easily point to other years that were thought to be bad drafts and were.

It's a bad draft. That's pretty much a consensus from draftniks, media and leaked comments from front office type people.

The chances of landing someone later in the draft that might be a great to good player is a complete crapshoot in years where the talent is good. It's even less likely in years with limited talent.


Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2019, 08:14:03 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Nothing I've heard about this draft suggests that it would be worth giving up much value to move from 14 to 6.
Bingo. And Phoenix saying they want to move back pretty much shows they feel the same way. After Zion and Morant, I do not see much of anything in this draft.


I would point out that people said much the same thing about the 2013 draft, and a couple of All-NBA caliber talents ended up being drafted outside the top 10 in that draft.

There are probably really valuable players that will be available in range of where the Celts are picking in this draft.

In that sense, having three picks plus #51 is a positive, because they'll have multiple chances to snag a diamond in the rough.


That's assuming they end up keeping all the picks, though, which seems pretty unlikely.  But who knows.
I can just as easily point to other years that were thought to be bad drafts and were.

It's a bad draft. That's pretty much a consensus from draftniks, media and leaked comments from front office type people.

The chances of landing someone later in the draft that might be a great to good player is a complete crapshoot in years where the talent is good. It's even less likely in years with limited talent.
Yeah, after the top 3 it’s a bit of a mess. The only others with observable All-Star potential are in my mind Garland and Bol, and both have injury concerns & Bol has motor issues.

This draft seems rife with guys who can be your 7-9th man in the rotation down the track though, depending on the quality of your team
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2019, 08:44:12 PM »

Offline wiley

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Nothing I've heard about this draft suggests that it would be worth giving up much value to move from 14 to 6.
Bingo. And Phoenix saying they want to move back pretty much shows they feel the same way. After Zion and Morant, I do not see much of anything in this draft.


I would point out that people said much the same thing about the 2013 draft, and a couple of All-NBA caliber talents ended up being drafted outside the top 10 in that draft.

There are probably really valuable players that will be available in range of where the Celts are picking in this draft.

In that sense, having three picks plus #51 is a positive, because they'll have multiple chances to snag a diamond in the rough.


That's assuming they end up keeping all the picks, though, which seems pretty unlikely.  But who knows.
I can just as easily point to other years that were thought to be bad drafts and were.

It's a bad draft. That's pretty much a consensus from draftniks, media and leaked comments from front office type people.

The chances of landing someone later in the draft that might be a great to good player is a complete crapshoot in years where the talent is good. It's even less likely in years with limited talent.
Yeah, after the top 3 it’s a bit of a mess. The only others with observable All-Star potential are in my mind Garland and Bol, and both have injury concerns & Bol has motor issues.

This draft seems rife with guys who can be your 7-9th man in the rotation down the track though, depending on the quality of your team

I don't know.  It's not a star draft for sure.  But it seems like a good draft to me if you're not talking about stars.  Seems to my a guy like Thybulle could have an Avery Bradley like career, but with more size and even better defense.  That would be quite a get (if correct) at pick 22. 

And the other thing to consider is not who will be good next year, but who will be starting to sniff all star territory 4 years down the road.  That can be very satisfying to a team as far as picking the right guy, a guy who does nothing much for a couple of year, or is just a solid role player, then really blossoms. 

Here's a list of guys under the theme of---how good will they be in 4 years?---

Jarret Culver--IMO the clear #4 player in the draft and the guy who has a chance to be better than Barrett in the long run.  Worth moving up to 6 if he is there at 6.

Kevin Porter Jr. --  right now a negative in the intangibles department due to behavior concerns.  How about 4 years from now?  He might be a genuine stud basketball player.  A definite gamble pick.

Doumbouya -- in 4 years what will be?  Can he make teams who don't take him regret? 

Garland--Are we sure he's not worth drafting at pick 6? 

To me to just call it a bad draft is a cop out....an example of team's not taking responsibility for picking the wrong guy(s).  If GM's are honest...they would just admit that there's bound to be some eventual all stars and/or specialist studs (Bruce Bowen before becoming an all-star, the next Siakam, the next Jimmy Butler, etc.) in this draft, but in fact they have no clue who that might be.  Not a knock against GM's or scouts....but more truthful than just saying the draft sucks.

Superstars are so hard to come by.  To focus only on them is a mistake imo....

I think it's worth it to try for the great role players in a draft like this and hope you get lucky...(then call it a mix of drafting skill, diligence and luck)



Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2019, 08:55:22 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I'm not sure that I agree with the sentiment that this draft dies at 3. I have the tiers looking something like.

S Tier
Zion

AAA Tier
No one

AA tier
Ja Morant

A Tier
RJ Barrett

B+ Tier
Jarrett Culver
Darius Garland(if his medicals are solid)
Cam Reddish(has risen back up as a prospect in my eyes might be A- tier by draft night)

B Tier
DeAndre Hunter
Sekou Doumboyah

B- Tier
Coby White

C+ Tier
Nassir Little
Bol Bol
Rui Hachimura
Brandon Clarke
Goga Biadtze
Romeo Langford

C- Tier
Everyone else until about pick 22

The point is that walking away with one of Hunter, Reddish, Garland or Doumboyah would absolutely be worth giving up assets to move up to 6.
I miss Chad Ford

Re: Phoenix shopping pick 6 for Vets?
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2019, 09:02:51 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Nothing I've heard about this draft suggests that it would be worth giving up much value to move from 14 to 6.
Bingo. And Phoenix saying they want to move back pretty much shows they feel the same way. After Zion and Morant, I do not see much of anything in this draft.


I would point out that people said much the same thing about the 2013 draft, and a couple of All-NBA caliber talents ended up being drafted outside the top 10 in that draft.

There are probably really valuable players that will be available in range of where the Celts are picking in this draft.

In that sense, having three picks plus #51 is a positive, because they'll have multiple chances to snag a diamond in the rough.


That's assuming they end up keeping all the picks, though, which seems pretty unlikely.  But who knows.
I can just as easily point to other years that were thought to be bad drafts and were.

It's a bad draft. That's pretty much a consensus from draftniks, media and leaked comments from front office type people.

The chances of landing someone later in the draft that might be a great to good player is a complete crapshoot in years where the talent is good. It's even less likely in years with limited talent.
Yeah, after the top 3 it’s a bit of a mess. The only others with observable All-Star potential are in my mind Garland and Bol, and both have injury concerns & Bol has motor issues.

This draft seems rife with guys who can be your 7-9th man in the rotation down the track though, depending on the quality of your team

I don't know.  It's not a star draft for sure.  But it seems like a good draft to me if you're not talking about stars.  Seems to my a guy like Thybulle could have an Avery Bradley like career, but with more size and even better defense.  That would be quite a get (if correct) at pick 22. 

And the other thing to consider is not who will be good next year, but who will be starting to sniff all star territory 4 years down the road.  That can be very satisfying to a team as far as picking the right guy, a guy who does nothing much for a couple of year, or is just a solid role player, then really blossoms. 

Here's a list of guys under the theme of---how good will they be in 4 years?---

Jarret Culver--IMO the clear #4 player in the draft and the guy who has a chance to be better than Barrett in the long run.  Worth moving up to 6 if he is there at 6.

Kevin Porter Jr. --  right now a negative in the intangibles department due to behavior concerns.  How about 4 years from now?  He might be a genuine stud basketball player.  A definite gamble pick.

Doumbouya -- in 4 years what will be?  Can he make teams who don't take him regret? 

Garland--Are we sure he's not worth drafting at pick 6? 

To me to just call it a bad draft is a cop out....an example of team's not taking responsibility for picking the wrong guy(s).  If GM's are honest...they would just admit that there's bound to be some eventual all stars and/or specialist studs (Bruce Bowen before becoming an all-star, the next Siakam, the next Jimmy Butler, etc.) in this draft, but in fact they have no clue who that might be.  Not a knock against GM's or scouts....but more truthful than just saying the draft sucks.

Superstars are so hard to come by.  To focus only on them is a mistake imo....

I think it's worth it to try for the great role players in a draft like this and hope you get lucky...(then call it a mix of drafting skill, diligence and luck)
We're not picking at #6.  We're picking at #14.  A few years ago the Kings #10 cost the #15 and the #20.  So lets say #14 and #22 gets us to #10.  How do we get to #6? 

Jumping to #6 isn't realistic.  What you're hoping for is that the 5th or 6th player on your big board drops to #10 and then you trade up.  Of course that assumes there is no AD trade. 

Edit:  Wasn't the last time Danny traded up in a similar situation when he took Olynyk over Giannis?