don't resign manny thread

[Roy Hobbs]

I guarantee you that if Manny was placed on the block, he'd bring a decent return.  It wouldn't be a bonanza, but the Sox would walk away with probably two nice prospects and a young major leaguer.

I don't know Roy. Let's not forget he is a 10/5 guy and can dictate where and how he goes. If Manny is being traded, be assured that the trading team is picking up the two, one year options on his contract or no deal. If the perception is the Red Sox have to get rid of him, I'd be surprised just how much they could get. My guess is good pitching prospects would be completely out of the equation if the other team is sucking up $50 million in salary.

Good point on the 10-5 rights.  I just don't see the contract as being that big of a deal, though.  Manny is one of the five best hitters in the game, and I don't see his skills declining.  A two year, $40 million extension is nothing for many teams. 

[bbc3341]

couldn't imagine manny on another team, not fair! keep him...

[crownsy]

I guarantee you that if Manny was placed on the block, he'd bring a decent return.  It wouldn't be a bonanza, but the Sox would walk away with probably two nice prospects and a young major leaguer.

I don't know Roy. Let's not forget he is a 10/5 guy and can dictate where and how he goes. If Manny is being traded, be assured that the trading team is picking up the two, one year options on his contract or no deal. If the perception is the Red Sox have to get rid of him, I'd be surprised just how much they could get. My guess is good pitching prospects would be completely out of the equation if the other team is sucking up $50 million in salary.

Good point on the 10-5 rights.  I just don't see the contract as being that big of a deal, though.  Manny is one of the five best hitters in the game, and I don't see his skills declining.  A two year, $40 million extension is nothing for many teams. 

right, but if the sox are openly dumping him, you can bet the team doing the trading will treat it as a rental, regardless of what they are going to actually do. teams that panic and trade stars on the last year of thier deal rarely get good value.

also, why not keep him and let him go at the end of the year if we want him gone? if we do that, we get 3 sandwich picks i believe, though i amy be wrong and it might be only two. Theo is pretty money with first round picks, see paps, clay, masterson, pedroia, ellsbury and lester. all those guys were FA compensation picks. rather get manny's money to spend and 3 mid first rounders than a mid level guy and a prospect, which considering the Indians might have to suck up a player of mid level at best for C.C sabitha, is a reasonable expectation if you openly dump ramariz as a rental.

[Nerf MVP]

also, why not keep him and let him go at the end of the year if we want him gone? if we do that, we get 3 sandwich picks i believe, though i amy be wrong and it might be only two. Theo is pretty money with first round picks, see paps, clay, masterson, pedroia, ellsbury and lester. all those guys were FA compensation picks. rather get manny's money to spend and 3 mid first rounders than a mid level guy and a prospect, which considering the Indians might have to suck up a player of mid level at best for C.C sabitha, is a reasonable expectation if you openly dump ramariz as a rental.

Just for the sake of splitting hairs, only Ellsbury and Buchholz were 1st rounders, and Clay was the only comp. pick of the group. Masterson, Pedroia, and Lester were all 2nd rounders, and Paps went in the 4th round. Your point is not lost though, the Theo era (though I'm not sure who was at the helm in '02 when Lester was taken) has dominated the draft just as he set out to, and I've confidence they'd make good use of those picks.

That being said, I'd never consider not bringing Manny back next season, barring a catastrophic injury or huge decline in production. We're still built to contend now, and have no big bats in the system ready to pick up the slack( Lars Anderson still a few years away). The 'Sox could go after Teixeira, but then they'd have to choose between Lowell or Youk, and they still wouldn't have a left fielder.

[Vermont Green]

If this story can be taken at face value, that Manny pushed the travelling secretary to the floor, then Manny should be suspended.  How much different is this than the incident in Houston?  I suspect (hope) that the story is not as simple as it seems so far.  Manny did apologize but come on.  If I pushed someone here at my job and they fell to the floor, I would probably get fired (even though I am the head of a division).  I think we are cutting him too much slack here because he is an athlete (assuming the story is the whole story).

Discussing trading Manny is moot because there would be no trade value.  Do you remember a few years back they put him on waivers and no one took him?

Manny is back in the news.  When he had the thing with the travelling secretary, I was ready to suspend him.  I am still not sure we know the whole story but there has not been much more news so I guess the story is how it was reported.  Now Manny is sitting out games and those he plays in, he acts like a clown in the outfield.  I was at a game recently sitting where I could see left field very clearly.  Manny was beyond loose while in the field.  You could see Ellsbury in a crouch, ready on every pitch while Manny was like a kid, looking up at teh sky, crown, green monster, anything but looking ready to play (you don't see that on TV).  Now this whole knee thing.

I say it is time to suspend Manny.  Take him out of the dugout and stop paying him.  He will probably appeal through the union and win back his money but for now, get him out.  Someone may trade something of reasonable value if we are willing to pay most of his remaining contract (preferably a team in the NL).  We won't have great leverage but maybe we can get a lefty reliever or something.

Manny, it has been fun but bon voyage.....

[MBz]

Suspend him for what?  Not being focused on defense?  He doesn't make a ton of errors because of not being focused so what's the big deal?  The Sox NEED to pick the option up on Manny.  Without Manny, Papi's production will seriously go down.  Look at what JD Drew did with Manny behind him.  Manny is still one of the most feared hitters in the game.  Teams still have a high level of respect for him to the point where whoever is in front of him is going to see good pitches.

[Vermont Green]

Suspend him for behavior that is detrimental to the team, including faking an injury, clowning around in the field too much, and getting into a physical altercation with a team employee.  If his value is as high as you think, great, we can get even more back in return.  Remember that the Sox traded Nomar which seemed unthinkable but it turned out that it was a tough decision that had to me made.  I think the Manny decision is easier than the Nomar decision because Nomar never stopped trying.  believe me, I know this is tough and risky but my opinion is that it is time.....

[Roy Hobbs]

Suspend him for behavior that is detrimental to the team, including faking an injury, clowning around in the field too much, and getting into a physical altercation with a team employee.  If his value is as high as you think, great, we can get even more back in return.  Remember that the Sox traded Nomar which seemed unthinkable but it turned out that it was a tough decision that had to me made.  I think the Manny decision is easier than the Nomar decision because Nomar never stopped trying.  believe me, I know this is tough and risky but my opinion is that it is time.....

I don't think any team could ever prove that a player was faking an injury, and if they tried, the union would be at their throats.  Also, you run the very real risk of alienating the current players on your team, who wonder how you'll treat them under similar circumstances (since there's no evidence whatsoever that Manny is faking).

As for the physical altercation, I agree he should have been suspended for that, but at this point, it's  too late.

My thought is, it's a lot easier to win a championship with Manny than it is with the lefty reliever you want to trade him for.  After all, we've won two of them with Manny, something we hadn't done in the 80+ years prior to signing him.  Yes, he's eccentric, and his antics lately have been frustrating, but he's still one of the best players in the game, and  he doesn't seem to be a locker room cancer, so I say keep him (and pick up his option).

[Vermont Green]

At the time of the trade of Nomar, it was hard to think that we would actually be a better team without him than with him.  I think it is the same case now with Manny.  I know you can't prove that Manny is faking but they can suspend him and then let Manny appeal.  As I said, Manny will appeal and get his money back probably but that is not the point.  The parallels to 2004 to me are obvious.  The team is underachieving to some degree.  It is not all Manny's fault but it wasn't all Nomar's fault either.

The Herald has a poll going and 81% think Manny should be suspended if he refuses to play today.  I say don't even give him the chance to play today.  This is a tough issue.

[MBz]

There's a difference between Manny and Nomar though.  Manny is considered one of the greatest of all time.  Nomar isn't and wasn't when they traded him.  I don't think you can get equal value for Manny.  Also, if you trade Manny, this team will fold.  You won't get a bat back that is as valuable as Manny's.  We'll finish 3rd in the division in my opinion.  Papi is nothing without Manny.  I'd rather get rid of Ortiz and keep Manny to be honest.  Manny is a much better overall hitter.

[nickagneta]

Suspending Manny accomplishes nothing more than hurting your team on the field in the quest to repeat as World Champions. That's it, nothing more. Manny is too flaky to look at a suspension as anything more than a vacation. Meanwhile the team that is on the field has a giant hole in the middle of the lineup and Papi gets pitched around like crazy.

Also, there isn't a chance in hell of Manny being traded without Manny either having the last two years of options picked up on his contract, or, the more likely scenario, having the contract extended out to 3-4 years longer.

The reason for the extension would be because Scott Boras is Manny's new agent. If the options are picked up, Boras doesn't get paid a commission on them. If the contract is renegotiated and extended, Boras would get a commission on that. If Manny doesn't go where he wants and with a contract extension he wants, he'll simply use his no trade 10-5 rights and stay put.

That will leave the ball in the Red Sox court. Will they let him go, and Manny hits the open market and gets his 4 year contract from the Mets? Or do they pick up only a year of the options knowing Manny could very well act like the spoiled brat he has lately attempting to get his option picked up again next year? Or do they pick up both options hoping it appeases Manny and the Sox can go back to some normal semblance of Manny being Manny for the next 2 1/3 years.

Whether you realize it or not or want to admit it or not, Manny is running this show and the Sox know it. So they will let him play and see where it goes from there.

[Nerf DPOY]

I really hope cooler heads prevail in this whole mess. Up until this alleged fiasco, I was very optimistic about our chances of repeating. We didn't even need to make a deadline trade. Who could top adding Ortiz to the middle of their lineup and Masterson to the pen ( though the Yanks came close last night)down the stretch?

I really don't see an option for the team that would benefit them more than patching things up with Manny and having him finish the season as our LF. Even Crisp, Ellsbury, or Brandon Moss's parents would probably agree with me. Maybe the situation is beyond fixing, as CHB would have you believe. That would stink.

[Vermont Green]

First, the objective of suspending Manny is to not pay him.  It will still be a vacation to Manny but at least until he wins his appeal, it would not be a paid vacation.  Then you trade Manny.  I really don't think the Sox brass are going to give Manny another year just to make him happy.  Chances are that one year from now, you are dealing with the same Manny issues as you have been having this year and every year.  You can do better than Manny for $20M per year.

Manny is a great hitter but I am not so sure that other players on the team are going to be upset.  Actually, I think just the opposite, they are going to totally "get it".  And also for the record, I would rather have Ortiz than Manny.

[nickagneta]

First, the objective of suspending Manny is to not pay him.  It will still be a vacation to Manny but at least until he wins his appeal, it would not be a paid vacation.  Then you trade Manny.  I really don't think the Sox brass are going to give Manny another year just to make him happy.  Chances are that one year from now, you are dealing with the same Manny issues as you have been having this year and every year.  You can do better than Manny for $20M per year.

Manny is a great hitter but I am not so sure that other players on the team are going to be upset.  Actually, I think just the opposite, they are going to totally "get it".  And also for the record, I would rather have Ortiz than Manny.

Did you read my whole post?

You can not just trade Manny!

Manny has 10/5 no-trade rights. He can veto any and every trade. His agent would most likely waive that right if the team trading for Manny negotiates an extension on his contract first, but who is going to trade for Manny and then guarantee him another $70-80 million over the next 4 years?

Here's a clue there's four teams that could do it and two of them you are currently fighting for playoff positioning with.

Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Angels.

My guess is Theo, even in his gorilla suit days, wouldn't trade Manny to an American League rival. And the Mets and the Cubs will low ball the heck out of Theo because they actually could just wait until the end of the season and when the Sox don't pick up Manny's option, sign Manny as a free agent.

And suspending Manny without pay is still a vacation for Manny. He's made close to $150 million in the last 8 years. He's not exactly living paycheck to paycheck.

Boras will tell him to go take the family down to Brazil to see how the mansion he's building down there is coming along and let him deal with it. Boras will assure him that they can't suspend him without pay and that he will get the money. Which he will.

As for his teammates, most in the clubhouse love the guy. They say he's tireless when it comes to working on his batting and is fun in the clubhouse. Sure today there was one anonymous player saying the whole situation was ridiculous, but when you work with 25 to 35 people every day not everyone is going to love you.

Take a poll of the clubhouse as to whether they would want Manny on their team come playoff time and IMO it will be 90% for Manny and 10% against.

[Jon]

How many times has there been a Manny controversy since he came here from Cleveland?  While that may seem like [dang]ing evidence, it's also a fantastic reason to keep him.  Because every time that something like this has happened before it's meant absolutely nothing.  Is it infuriating that he gets paid a ton of money and acts like a clown at times?  Sure.  But it's hard to argue with the results the Sox have had the past few years. 

Right now he just needs to get his butt back on the field, which apparently he's doing today.  As someone already said, Drew was doing phenomenally with Manny batting behind him.  Now put in a lineup of Papi, Manny, Drew (followed by Lowell and Youk) and the Sox are gonna hammer some teams.