The Jamal Murray Thread

[Csfan1984]

Murray= My choice when just thinking about numbers.
Bender= My choice when thinking team fit and need.

I think both could be better athletes but with just a little improvement they will be OK in the NBA.

The thing I also think about Murray is the other guys like him in the draft that you can get late like Beasley, Hart, Brogdon and about 2 other guys. Bender doesn't have any one as comparable imo the gap is large.

[crimson_stallion]

Murray= My choice when just thinking about numbers.
Bender= My choice when thinking team fit and need.

I think both could be better athletes but with just a little improvement they will be OK in the NBA.

The thing I also think about Murray is the other guys like him in the draft that you can get late like Beasley, Hart, Brogdon and about 2 other guys. Bender doesn't have any one as comparable imo the gap is large.

Labissiere and Poeltl. 

Poetly is a 7 footer who runs the floor very well, rebounds well, defends the paint, and has the lateral mobility to step out onto wings.  The only thing Bender has that he doesn't is three point range - but Poeltl's jumper is improving, and he's better than Bender in almost all the important big man areas (rebounding, shotblocking, inside scoring, etc).

Labissiere is (like Bender) a very high risk player, but I think his upside is even higher then Bender's is thanks to his more impressive athleticism, smoother jump shot, better inside game and superior rebounding / shotblocking ability.   Labissiere hasn't shown much in college this year, and yet he has STILL shown more then Bender has.

[elcotte]

I call you, and raise you:

46 points vs Kansas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uK4EwZfZ1s

37 points vs Oregon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOpw-WTPavc

39 points vs Iowa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iLS-BcPGcY

32 points vs LSU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY

36 points vs VCU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nBZuTEFxlQ

31 points vs Kansas State:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69K6XZB6pMg

33 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFLzUreOk-4

30 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FByRw7f9CNU


I would keep going, but I don't think there is much need.  With all due respect to Murray, he doesn't even come close.  After watching Hield play, it makes Murry looks like he's 40 years old retiree.

I don't see Oklahoma's last game of the tournament. Where is it?

[Csfan1984]

Murray= My choice when just thinking about numbers.
Bender= My choice when thinking team fit and need.

I think both could be better athletes but with just a little improvement they will be OK in the NBA.

The thing I also think about Murray is the other guys like him in the draft that you can get late like Beasley, Hart, Brogdon and about 2 other guys. Bender doesn't have any one as comparable imo the gap is large.

Labissiere and Poeltl. 

Poetly is a 7 footer who runs the floor very well, rebounds well, defends the paint, and has the lateral mobility to step out onto wings.  The only thing Bender has that he doesn't is three point range - but Poeltl's jumper is improving, and he's better than Bender in almost all the important big man areas (rebounding, shotblocking, inside scoring, etc).

Labissiere is (like Bender) a very high risk player, but I think his upside is even higher then Bender's is thanks to his more impressive athleticism, smoother jump shot, better inside game and superior rebounding / shotblocking ability.   Labissiere hasn't shown much in college this year, and yet he has STILL shown more then Bender has.

See with those guys you would have to combine both players in terms of toughness + instinct in Poeltl and offensive in Lab to equal Bender. Bender has everything except elite athleticism. It's why he is rated so high. Sabonis is a poor man's Bender this draft. That is the gap I'm seeing here. It's Bender's separation from the rest that has me thinking he ends up the pick.

[jpotter33]

I call you, and raise you:

46 points vs Kansas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uK4EwZfZ1s

37 points vs Oregon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOpw-WTPavc

39 points vs Iowa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iLS-BcPGcY

32 points vs LSU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY

36 points vs VCU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nBZuTEFxlQ

31 points vs Kansas State:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69K6XZB6pMg

33 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFLzUreOk-4

30 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FByRw7f9CNU


I would keep going, but I don't think there is much need.  With all due respect to Murray, he doesn't even come close.  After watching Hield play, it makes Murry looks like he's 40 years old retiree.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/buddy-hield-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jj-redick-1.html

I honestly think JJ is a perfect comp for Buddy, and their senior stats are very, very close to each other. And that's not to say that JJ isn't a good player, but I'd expect more out of a top-3 overall pick.

I also think it's unfair to post videos like that without also putting a disclaimer out there that one is a freshman while the other is a senior.

[Mattybriand]

Murray would be a solid choice at #3. I have a hard time getting super excited about him as he doesn't have superstar-level tools and he's a one-way prospect, but I do think his game will mostly translate to the NBA. Shooting always translates, and Murray is a creative enough finisher that I think he'll be able to translate his slashing game too. Clearly the scoring instincts are off the charts, and he isn't THAT unathletic.

If Ainge wants him over Bender, I hope he'll trade down with the Suns, just #3+#23+#45 for #4+#13. The Suns already have Devin Booker, so it's hard to see them wanting Murray. And that 13 pick looks super juicy.

Would be amazing is this happened

[crimson_stallion]

I call you, and raise you:

46 points vs Kansas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uK4EwZfZ1s

37 points vs Oregon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOpw-WTPavc

39 points vs Iowa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iLS-BcPGcY

32 points vs LSU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY

36 points vs VCU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nBZuTEFxlQ

31 points vs Kansas State:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69K6XZB6pMg

33 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFLzUreOk-4

30 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FByRw7f9CNU


I would keep going, but I don't think there is much need.  With all due respect to Murray, he doesn't even come close.  After watching Hield play, it makes Murry looks like he's 40 years old retiree.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/buddy-hield-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jj-redick-1.html

I honestly think JJ is a perfect comp for Buddy, and their senior stats are very, very close to each other. And that's not to say that JJ isn't a good player, but I'd expect more out of a top-3 overall pick.

I also think it's unfair to post videos like that without also putting a disclaimer out there that one is a freshman while the other is a senior.

Shooting ability and scoring numbers are quite literally the ONLY things that Hield and Reddick have in common as players.  Hield offers many things that Reddick never did - such as length, athleticism, physicality/toughness, ability to score in transition, ability to blow past fairly athletic players and get to the basket, etc.

Murray is a shooting guard who lacks athleticism, lacks ball handling skills, lacks passing ability, cannot defend to save his life, and who's only translatable NBA skill is three point shooting.  Yet he's being hyped purely because he has a nice jumper, and because he scored a lot in college at a young age. 

Sound like somebody else - James Young perhaps?  Murray has James Young written all over him - except Young at least had legit NBA size and length on his side...Murray doesn't even have that. 

When are people going to learn that youth does not always equal potential?

[MBunge]

I call you, and raise you:

46 points vs Kansas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uK4EwZfZ1s

37 points vs Oregon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOpw-WTPavc

39 points vs Iowa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iLS-BcPGcY

32 points vs LSU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY

36 points vs VCU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nBZuTEFxlQ

31 points vs Kansas State:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69K6XZB6pMg

33 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFLzUreOk-4

30 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FByRw7f9CNU


I would keep going, but I don't think there is much need.  With all due respect to Murray, he doesn't even come close.  After watching Hield play, it makes Murry looks like he's 40 years old retiree.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/buddy-hield-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jj-redick-1.html

I honestly think JJ is a perfect comp for Buddy, and their senior stats are very, very close to each other. And that's not to say that JJ isn't a good player, but I'd expect more out of a top-3 overall pick.

I also think it's unfair to post videos like that without also putting a disclaimer out there that one is a freshman while the other is a senior.

The comparison is to a JJ Redick who is substantially stronger, has a much better all around offensive game, is a much better rebounder and carried a team on his back with much less talented teammates.

Mike

[crimson_stallion]

I call you, and raise you:

46 points vs Kansas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uK4EwZfZ1s

37 points vs Oregon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOpw-WTPavc

39 points vs Iowa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iLS-BcPGcY

32 points vs LSU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY

36 points vs VCU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nBZuTEFxlQ

31 points vs Kansas State:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69K6XZB6pMg

33 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFLzUreOk-4

30 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FByRw7f9CNU


I would keep going, but I don't think there is much need.  With all due respect to Murray, he doesn't even come close.  After watching Hield play, it makes Murry looks like he's 40 years old retiree.

I don't see Oklahoma's last game of the tournament. Where is it?

I have no idea - all I did is google "Buddy Hield highlights" and then clicked on the first six or seven 30+ point games that popped up.  There were so many of them that I didn't need to seek out specific games. 

Where's Murray's last game of the tournament?  Or did Kentucky not get past the second round? 

[wiley]

I wouldn't compare Hield to Reddick.  And I wouldn't compare Murray to Young.  Let's not get carried away with unwarranted comparisons. 

If you want a little more size go with Hield.  If you want a little more PG potential go with Murray.
Both fantastic shooters and both will succeed. 

[crimson_stallion]

I wouldn't compare Hield to Reddick.  And I wouldn't compare Murray to Young.  Let's not get carried away with unwarranted comparisons. 

If you want a little more size go with Hield.  If you want a little more PG potential go with Murray.
Both fantastic shooters and both will succeed.

I don't think either has a hint of PG potential personally, but I worry more for Murray because no way he can defend NBA point guards.

[max215]

I call you, and raise you:

46 points vs Kansas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uK4EwZfZ1s

37 points vs Oregon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOpw-WTPavc

39 points vs Iowa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iLS-BcPGcY

32 points vs LSU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY

36 points vs VCU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nBZuTEFxlQ

31 points vs Kansas State:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69K6XZB6pMg

33 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFLzUreOk-4

30 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FByRw7f9CNU


I would keep going, but I don't think there is much need.  With all due respect to Murray, he doesn't even come close.  After watching Hield play, it makes Murry looks like he's 40 years old retiree.

I don't see Oklahoma's last game of the tournament. Where is it?

I have no idea - all I did is google "Buddy Hield highlights" and then clicked on the first six or seven 30+ point games that popped up.  There were so many of them that I didn't need to seek out specific games. 

Where's Murray's last game of the tournament?  Or did Kentucky not get past the second round?

The point was that Hield's last game was pretty poor. Murray was awful in his last game as well, though.

[Denis998]

I think Murray should be the pick at #3. Hard choice between him and Buddy, but I think he projects better for the NBA.

[Surferdad]

I wouldn't compare Hield to Reddick.  And I wouldn't compare Murray to Young.  Let's not get carried away with unwarranted comparisons. 

If you want a little more size go with Hield.  If you want a little more PG potential go with Murray.
Both fantastic shooters and both will succeed.

I don't think either has a hint of PG potential personally, but I worry more for Murray because no way he can defend NBA point guards.

If that's true, then that's a knockout factor for me.  The C's have built their reputation as a stingy defensive team.  I want them to continue that and add shooting where possible.

[alldaboston]

I wouldn't compare Hield to Reddick.  And I wouldn't compare Murray to Young.  Let's not get carried away with unwarranted comparisons. 

If you want a little more size go with Hield.  If you want a little more PG potential go with Murray.
Both fantastic shooters and both will succeed.

I don't think either has a hint of PG potential personally, but I worry more for Murray because no way he can defend NBA point guards.

I don't think Isaiah can defend NBA point guards, but no one is worried about him.

And Murray has much more point guard potential than Hield. Murray's future in this league is going to be as a combo guard who can play either position for large stretches at a time. Though, I agree that he will play more SG than he will play PG.