Woj: Jrue to Celtics

[No Nickname]

Brogdon was great for us last year and a good 3rd option.

All this negativity is just recency bias because he was injured against Miami

Yeah, I think there are two separate arguments:

1.  Did Brogdon meet expectations last year?  I think he did.  He was 6MOY and was a great shooter, better than we could have hoped for.  His overall defense wasn't as good as I'd hoped, but he was a really, really good player.  Definitely worth Nesmith and a #1.

2.  What Brogdon would we have been getting in 2023-24?  This is the harder question.  We don't know if he's fully recovered from injury.  We don't know how much his injuries contributed to some really poor defense in the playoffs (even before the Finals).  And, most concerning, we don't know where his head was at after the KP trade fell through.  Brad has acknowledged he was "angry", and reports are that Brogdon wanted a fresh start.  The "healing" process was still ongoing, despite several months of time passing. 

In combination, I think it's fair to conclude that Brogdon was a really good Celtic that was a diminished asset heading into 2024.  To me, that's why the Jrue trade makes a ton of sense. 

I think a few fans are (perhaps subconsciously) viewing this like we're giving up peak Brogdon + peak Timelord.  While there's certainly a possibility that both guys perform at a very high level going forward, I think the odds are against it.

Agreed.  Astute observations of these two perspectives.

[No Nickname]

I have to say I do find the team more likeable now with Jrue as opposed to Brogdon and Timelord.

Jrue is one of the easiest guys in the league to root for. I like how he plays. A team first guy. Great attitude. Effort, size, athleticism. Competiveness.

Brogdon rubbed me the wrong way. I hated seeing him criticize his teammate's defense while dogging it on D himself. That disgusted me. The same way it did when Amare Stoudemire or Carmelo Anthony did it. Defense accountability for the minions but not for me. I'm the star. Diva-attitude.

Also, I wasn't loving his style of play on offense. More of an iso-style player than a team based player. When he moved to a team style he became a limited spot up shooter type. In order to be more productive, he had to dominate the ball. Too much for my liking.

Then the injury proness. Big issue for Brogdon. Huge issue for Timelord.

It is nice to get away from those things.

It is nice to have an easy to root for player like Jrue Holiday.

I found it odd that Brogdon seldom smiled.  Made me wonder if he had an underlying problem with his role on the Celtics.

Yes, he had Resting [Blank] Face, but the dude wasn't disgruntled.  You guys are reading into things way too much.

Maybe he wasn't happy when White was declared the starter without having the opportunity to compete for it.  Sure, who wouldn't be p---ed if their superior quit their job and your coworker automatically got promoted without you even being able to apply?

You all think that you wouldn't have SOME emotions?

That being said, he was in Boston getting ready for training camp.  The dude is as professional as they come.  Stop judging someone's feelings/motives... or their PRODUCTION in their job based on a facial expression.

The dude BALLED OUT last year for the Celtics.  Now all you guys are dumping on him. 

It's poor form and embarrassing.

And anyone who says "I wish he was more of a distributor" look at his last two seasons with Indiana where he avered 5.9apg in 34mpg.

And then his 3.7apg in 26 minutes with the Cs.  That's 23% fewer minutes and his APG barely dropped off.

He went from averaging an assist every .17 minutes, to one every .14 minutes with the Celtics.  But he was asked to be more of a scoring punch off the bench that we lacked the previous seasons.  And he did that with 44% 3-point shooting. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

You're going to some really extreme lengths to defend him. Bringing up irrelevant things he did in Indiana are odd. He's a Trail Blazer now

Irrelevant?  People are saying he wasn't "much of a distributor here."

So comparing his assist stats in Indiana vs in Boston is irrelevant?

Also, that's "extreme?"

What a joke.

That is by definition irrelevant. He wasn't as good a passer here as he was advertised as being coming from Indy. His Indy passing had no bearing on his Celtic performance

You make no sense.  I don't even know what you're arguing about here.  Very illogical.

[ozgod]

I m betting Jrue is healthier than Brogdon will ever be .

The health issues has derailed Boston year after year.

It also gives them a legit 3rd or 4th option scoring wise. Holiday gives them some positive leadership and toughness. Plus he has the cred from winning a title.

Yeah, the locker room aspect of Jrue is beyond reproach.  He's won the "Teammate of the Year" award three times, the only guy to ever win it more than once.  He's also won the NBA Sportsmanship Award.

I've followed Jrue's career from the night he was drafted.  I was actually at MSG covering the draft for CelticsBlog at the time.  I was impressed by his poise and confidence.  He's been a binkie ever since.  We're going to all love him.

For those who haven't followed him as closely, I was really impressed when he was with the Pelicans.  He had a nasty injury, and needed to have a rod placed in his leg.  He missed 40+ games in back to back seasons, and people were saying he might be washed.  Instead, he worked tremendously hard to get back, and committed himself to doing anything the team needed. 

In 2018, he played primarily small forward despite being 6'3"...  and he made first team All-Defense!  Remember how Smart and Tony Allen would occasionally switch onto Lebron and give him fits for short stretches?  That was Jrue every night.  It was dang impressive.

I'm iffy about the trade value, but I LOVE the player.  He's not going to dog it, or be selfish. I think he'll help the team on the floor, but he's also a legit veteran who can take Tatum and Brown under his wing.

This is what I love about it. A guy with gravitas, who has the results and the championship to back up his words, who has played with the likes of Giannis and seen his work ethic, who can act as a senpai to our younger guys. I think he will be an awesome influence in the team.

So glad that Dame ended up with the Bucks because it allowed us to get Jrue 

[ozgod]

If this team stays healthy.....

If this team stays healthy ........... we still have an incompetent head coach.

Who coached his team to top 2 offensive and defensive rating. Who won more regular season games than any other Celtic coach (Doc, Brad, Ime) since 2009, who took us to one game short of reaching the NBA Finals, largely because his best player sprained his ankle and his 2nd best player had his worst game ever.  That coach???

Who took over a team that reached the NBA Finals, didn't lose anybody of note, and added Malcolm Brogdon? 

It's possible to win in spite of Joe, but he's not in the top 29 of NBA coaches.

That might be the nicest thing I've seen anyone say about Jason Kidd in the past couple of years

TP for the chuckle 

[Roy H.]

Powe! Jrue!

[No Nickname]

As to the trade, it feels like an overpay (exactly what I was saying after the Derrick White trade).  I get that Rob Williams has durability issues and it is hard to expect that this season would suddenly be different for him, but the team weakness is now the big rotation.  Plus two firsts, that is a lot to give up. 

Agreed.  And while I do appreciate Williams and Brogdon and the depth they allowed us (bringing the 6MOY off the bench was an amazing luxury last year), here's how I'm going to rationalize the overpay...

Brogdon still may not be 100% healthy.  Without this trade we might be looking at a hobbled Brogdon.

Williams will probably get injured in the first 20 games of the season.  It just seems to be the way his body is built, or just plain dumb luck.

The Golden State draft pick might be ##22 - 25, which isn't like a lottery pick.  They're the #4 or #5 team in the West, maybe #7 in the entire league?  So that pick might not be THAT great.

The '29 Celtics' pick?  Well after we win the chip in June of '29 that one will be #30. 

That's how I'm gonna look at it at least, for now!

[Roy H.]

Brian Robb: The Jrue Holiday trade to Celtics is now official I’m told with all parties passing their physicals. The All-Star guard will have his first practice with C’s tomorrow. – via Twitter BrianTRobb

[celticinorlando]

Sounds like Utah and Miami made pretty good offers in which Boston had to beat.

[Phantom255x]

Brian Robb: The Jrue Holiday trade to Celtics is now official I’m told with all parties passing their physicals. The All-Star guard will have his first practice with C’s tomorrow. – via Twitter BrianTRobb

Imagine if something didn't go through and so the trade was voided despite all that's happened and been talked about since

[Vermont Green]

Brian Robb: The Jrue Holiday trade to Celtics is now official I’m told with all parties passing their physicals. The All-Star guard will have his first practice with C’s tomorrow. – via Twitter BrianTRobb

So much for the conspiracies about Brogdon's injury.  Huh, maybe it was just an issue with timing that LAC was not able to complete their evaluation (Porzingis was on the clock due to a deadline over his extension or something).  Sounds like Brogdon is healthy and ready to start the season after all.

[Celtics2021]

Brian Robb: The Jrue Holiday trade to Celtics is now official I’m told with all parties passing their physicals. The All-Star guard will have his first practice with C’s tomorrow. – via Twitter BrianTRobb

So much for the conspiracies about Brogdon's injury.  Huh, maybe it was just an issue with timing that LAC was not able to complete their evaluation (Porzingis was on the clock due to a deadline over his extension or something).  Sounds like Brogdon is healthy and ready to start the season after all.

It’s also possible that Brogdon does have an injury and the Celtics were upfront about the status of that injury, and a physical confirmed it and showed no other problems.

[Vermont Green]

Brian Robb: The Jrue Holiday trade to Celtics is now official I’m told with all parties passing their physicals. The All-Star guard will have his first practice with C’s tomorrow. – via Twitter BrianTRobb

So much for the conspiracies about Brogdon's injury.  Huh, maybe it was just an issue with timing that LAC was not able to complete their evaluation (Porzingis was on the clock due to a deadline over his extension or something).  Sounds like Brogdon is healthy and ready to start the season after all.

It’s also possible that Brogdon does have an injury and the Celtics were upfront about the status of that injury, and a physical confirmed it and showed no other problems.

That is fair, after all, Brogdon did have an injury and until he is on the court and playing, there is going to be some level of uncertainty around whether it is fully healed or something that may flare up during the season or in the worst case, be on the verge of totally blowing out again.  It still appears though that the injury is what the Celtics have said it is.  That the expectation is that he is fine and will be able to start the season.  Doctors are not always 100% right about injuries.  He may start playing full speed and have soreness or something that isn't expected.

[Birdman]

Holiday to wear #4..can anyone think of who else worn this number?

[BitterJim]

Holiday to wear #4..can anyone think of who else worn this number?

IT4

Edit: The full history of the number is pretty crazy:
Wyndol Gray 1947
Saul Mariaschin 1948
Sonny Hertzberg 1950-1951
Tony Lavelli 1950
Kenny Rollins 1953
Carl Braun 1962
Clyde Lovellette 1963
Gerry Ward 1965
Jim Paxson 1988-1990
Sherman Douglas 1992
Larry Robinson 1992
Alaa Abdelnaby 1993-1994
David Wesley 1995-1997
Chauncey Billups 1998
Popeye Jones 1999
Tony Battie 2000-2004
Chris Mihm 2004
Ryan Gomes 2006-2007
J.R. Giddens 2009-2010
Nate Robinson 2010-2011
Nenad Krstić 2011
Marquis Daniels 2012
Jason Terry 2013
Keith Bogans 2014
Isaiah Thomas 2015-2017
Marcus Thornton 2015
Carsen Edwards 2020-2021
Kelan Martin 2022
Juwan Morgan 2022
Noah Vonleh 2023

Tony Battie is the only guy to wear it for more than 3 seasons

[Donoghus]

Holiday to wear #4..can anyone think of who else worn this number?

IT4

The great Tony Battie