Author Topic: Full Ainge press conference - media day  (Read 11627 times)

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Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2020, 01:39:51 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Carsen Edwards could be an interesting starter.

G: Edwards
G: Smart
F: Jaylen
F: Tatum
C: Theis

Keep Jeff Teague and Tristan Thompson to bench roles to provide experience and stability to an inexperienced bench. You have Grant Williams there as well.

Let Smart start at PG and run the team. Let Edwards come in and play a low pressure role next to the stars. He doesn't need to do anything fancy. Just take outside shots inside the flow of the offense. A minor role to let him / help him get comfortable. Let Smart defend SGs. Carsen defend PGs. Edwards gives you some extra ball handling security.

A bit similar to letting Scalabrine start when KG was injured. Move him into a 18mpg starting role. Let the main bench players keep their primary roles and keep the main rotation in tact. Put a lesser talent bench player in as starter. Someone who can spread the floor and just keep things ticking along.

I have no doubt that Carsen Edwards could be an interesting starter, in fact I'm sure Carsen Edwards would be an interesting starter. Talk about thinking outside the box. TP for the idea.
i think you misspelled the word "inadequate."  ;D

i root for edwards a lot. but given his play last year, he would have to have one heck of a pre-season to earn a starting position.

He'd definitely be an interesting starter in China.

A TP for that wit. Well played, sir.

But I think that you’re underestimating him. Boston gave him a contract with a low risk to the team - and a recognition that it might take a while.

I think that a couple of things are clear going forward: he can get an open shot for himself; and he’s a competitor.

That first is more important than it might appear to the casual fan, who likely replies, “So what, he’s got to make them!” - which is a good point, as far as it goes. Does that mean his upside is Terry Rozier with less length? Maybe.

Terry’s role expanded in Charlotte, with a modest uptick in assist% - and also in turnover %. Those numbers look about like Marcus Smart’s. Mostly the shots he creates are for himself. He shot over .400 from 3, which is golden, especially for a guy who can get a shot off the dribble and isn’t afraid of the moment. As we saw when he was in Boston, he got into the paint off the dribble, too, though his finishing was uninspiring.

Carsen did one thing last year that Terry has never come close to and that is in fact rare in the NBA - he was effective on the dreaded long 2’s - .529 on a small but not useless sample size (17 shots). He’s got a couple of different ways of getting those shots off the dribble with a shot fake at the arc and one or two dribbles going either right or left into that big open area that NBA defenses are mostly conceding nowadays. A guy who can reliably get you more than a point on a possession is an asset on offense.

Will Edwards eventually shoot at least an average % from 3? I’d bet on it. The form is excellent, the drive to improve is there, and he’s already got sidestep moves to either side to get a good look at the rim. The safety valve move to the wide-open long 2 is golden if last year’s % is real. That alternative means he’s not stuck with having to take a challenged 3 on a short clock.

The rosiest scenario is something like: Isaiah Thomas with better defense. But he’s got two high bars to get over first: he’s got to get to the rim and finish; and he’s got to get shots for his teammates. The first of those looks more likely, but he’s got a long way to go with the second. For my money, those are the two things to watch.

He’s an NBA player. I wouldn’t predict that he’ll retire in Boston, but I would predict that he’ll have a long career.

Look at his shooting numbers at Perdue. I don't know why the C's thought he'd be an NBA player. He's tough, confident and can create his own shots, but wasn't an an efficient shooter in college, so why would he be better in the NBA?

It’s a safe bet that the Boston brass were aware of whatever shooting numbers you’re looking at when they decided to pick him.

Waters is better at everything. Pritchard almost certainly is too.

The coaching staff were raving about Waters after SL 2019. And yet management only gave him a 2-way contract, while giving Edwards long-term money. It’s worth asking why they did that.

You certainly seem sure of yourself.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2020, 02:42:56 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Carsen Edwards could be an interesting starter.

G: Edwards
G: Smart
F: Jaylen
F: Tatum
C: Theis

Keep Jeff Teague and Tristan Thompson to bench roles to provide experience and stability to an inexperienced bench. You have Grant Williams there as well.

Let Smart start at PG and run the team. Let Edwards come in and play a low pressure role next to the stars. He doesn't need to do anything fancy. Just take outside shots inside the flow of the offense. A minor role to let him / help him get comfortable. Let Smart defend SGs. Carsen defend PGs. Edwards gives you some extra ball handling security.

A bit similar to letting Scalabrine start when KG was injured. Move him into a 18mpg starting role. Let the main bench players keep their primary roles and keep the main rotation in tact. Put a lesser talent bench player in as starter. Someone who can spread the floor and just keep things ticking along.

I have no doubt that Carsen Edwards could be an interesting starter, in fact I'm sure Carsen Edwards would be an interesting starter. Talk about thinking outside the box. TP for the idea.
i think you misspelled the word "inadequate."  ;D

i root for edwards a lot. but given his play last year, he would have to have one heck of a pre-season to earn a starting position.

He'd definitely be an interesting starter in China.

A TP for that wit. Well played, sir.

But I think that you’re underestimating him. Boston gave him a contract with a low risk to the team - and a recognition that it might take a while.

I think that a couple of things are clear going forward: he can get an open shot for himself; and he’s a competitor.

That first is more important than it might appear to the casual fan, who likely replies, “So what, he’s got to make them!” - which is a good point, as far as it goes. Does that mean his upside is Terry Rozier with less length? Maybe.

Terry’s role expanded in Charlotte, with a modest uptick in assist% - and also in turnover %. Those numbers look about like Marcus Smart’s. Mostly the shots he creates are for himself. He shot over .400 from 3, which is golden, especially for a guy who can get a shot off the dribble and isn’t afraid of the moment. As we saw when he was in Boston, he got into the paint off the dribble, too, though his finishing was uninspiring.

Carsen did one thing last year that Terry has never come close to and that is in fact rare in the NBA - he was effective on the dreaded long 2’s - .529 on a small but not useless sample size (17 shots). He’s got a couple of different ways of getting those shots off the dribble with a shot fake at the arc and one or two dribbles going either right or left into that big open area that NBA defenses are mostly conceding nowadays. A guy who can reliably get you more than a point on a possession is an asset on offense.

Will Edwards eventually shoot at least an average % from 3? I’d bet on it. The form is excellent, the drive to improve is there, and he’s already got sidestep moves to either side to get a good look at the rim. The safety valve move to the wide-open long 2 is golden if last year’s % is real.

The rosiest scenario is something like: Isaiah Thomas with better defense. But he’s got two high bars to get over first: he’s got to get to the rim and finish; and he’s got to get shots for his teammates. The first of those looks more likely, but he’s got a long way to go with the second. For my money, those are the two things to watch.

He’s an NBA player. I wouldn’t predict that he’ll retire in Boston, but I would predict that he’ll have a long career.

I wish I could buy into and get attached to these young players the way some other posters do.

Somehow I don’t think that you’re being entirely sincere... 😜

Who knows? Maybe Carsen will find a role, but it doesn't bode well that a guy billed as a shooter has yet to show that he can shoot at the NBA level. It's like James Young all over again.

It doesn’t bode ill, either. That was his rookie year, aged 21. And while I have no stake in your ‘insulting’ James Young, they aren’t very much alike, either in the kind of game they play or in their work ethics or in their repertoire of useful NBA skills.

His 3-pt shooting was 24/76. That’s a small enough sample size that a make or a miss one way or the other makes a big difference for percentages. If he’d made 28 of those he’d be above league-average. That is clearly attainable.

Notice also the degree of difficulty of his shots - mostly above the break, usually off the dribble. Those are more difficult.

I pointed out above that he was also effective on long 2’s (.529) - that is a rare NBA skill, if he can sustain it, and he can get those shots anytime.

To be continued, for sure, but the year 1 results for his long-range shooting are very encouraging.

Just because you mentioned him in comparison to Isaiah (an insult to IT)

What I said was the rosiest scenario was IT with better defense. I don’t flatter myself that other posters are parsing every nuance of my posts. Still, that’s pretty straightforward.

As for ‘insulting’ IT - really? On the contrary, I was using him as the paragon of the scoring point with speed, handles, range, and short stature. My prediction for Carsen was in fact specifically not IT, as I thought should have been obvious.

I detailed what I think are the two main areas where Edwards is lacking (and where Thomas was not), and predicted that he’d improve getting to the rim and finishing but I was doubtful that he’d become good at creating shots for teammates.

It did occur to me that Thomas is a good ideal for Edwards in another way – namely, that he was grossly underestimated and had to earn everything he got.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 03:02:18 PM by Hoopvortex »
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021


Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2020, 12:20:04 PM »

Offline td450

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Carsen Edwards could be an interesting starter.

G: Edwards
G: Smart
F: Jaylen
F: Tatum
C: Theis

Keep Jeff Teague and Tristan Thompson to bench roles to provide experience and stability to an inexperienced bench. You have Grant Williams there as well.

Let Smart start at PG and run the team. Let Edwards come in and play a low pressure role next to the stars. He doesn't need to do anything fancy. Just take outside shots inside the flow of the offense. A minor role to let him / help him get comfortable. Let Smart defend SGs. Carsen defend PGs. Edwards gives you some extra ball handling security.

A bit similar to letting Scalabrine start when KG was injured. Move him into a 18mpg starting role. Let the main bench players keep their primary roles and keep the main rotation in tact. Put a lesser talent bench player in as starter. Someone who can spread the floor and just keep things ticking along.

I have no doubt that Carsen Edwards could be an interesting starter, in fact I'm sure Carsen Edwards would be an interesting starter. Talk about thinking outside the box. TP for the idea.
i think you misspelled the word "inadequate."  ;D

i root for edwards a lot. but given his play last year, he would have to have one heck of a pre-season to earn a starting position.

He'd definitely be an interesting starter in China.

A TP for that wit. Well played, sir.

But I think that you’re underestimating him. Boston gave him a contract with a low risk to the team - and a recognition that it might take a while.

I think that a couple of things are clear going forward: he can get an open shot for himself; and he’s a competitor.

That first is more important than it might appear to the casual fan, who likely replies, “So what, he’s got to make them!” - which is a good point, as far as it goes. Does that mean his upside is Terry Rozier with less length? Maybe.

Terry’s role expanded in Charlotte, with a modest uptick in assist% - and also in turnover %. Those numbers look about like Marcus Smart’s. Mostly the shots he creates are for himself. He shot over .400 from 3, which is golden, especially for a guy who can get a shot off the dribble and isn’t afraid of the moment. As we saw when he was in Boston, he got into the paint off the dribble, too, though his finishing was uninspiring.

Carsen did one thing last year that Terry has never come close to and that is in fact rare in the NBA - he was effective on the dreaded long 2’s - .529 on a small but not useless sample size (17 shots). He’s got a couple of different ways of getting those shots off the dribble with a shot fake at the arc and one or two dribbles going either right or left into that big open area that NBA defenses are mostly conceding nowadays. A guy who can reliably get you more than a point on a possession is an asset on offense.

Will Edwards eventually shoot at least an average % from 3? I’d bet on it. The form is excellent, the drive to improve is there, and he’s already got sidestep moves to either side to get a good look at the rim. The safety valve move to the wide-open long 2 is golden if last year’s % is real. That alternative means he’s not stuck with having to take a challenged 3 on a short clock.

The rosiest scenario is something like: Isaiah Thomas with better defense. But he’s got two high bars to get over first: he’s got to get to the rim and finish; and he’s got to get shots for his teammates. The first of those looks more likely, but he’s got a long way to go with the second. For my money, those are the two things to watch.

He’s an NBA player. I wouldn’t predict that he’ll retire in Boston, but I would predict that he’ll have a long career.

Look at his shooting numbers at Perdue. I don't know why the C's thought he'd be an NBA player. He's tough, confident and can create his own shots, but wasn't an an efficient shooter in college, so why would he be better in the NBA?

It’s a safe bet that the Boston brass were aware of whatever shooting numbers you’re looking at when they decided to pick him.

Waters is better at everything. Pritchard almost certainly is too.

The coaching staff were raving about Waters after SL 2019. And yet management only gave him a 2-way contract, while giving Edwards long-term money. It’s worth asking why they did that.

You certainly seem sure of yourself.

Edwards has the advantage over Waters of having a more NBA ready body. He's only 5'11 but he has a 6'6 wingspan and he's built like a tank. Waters is a small guy. Edwards was drafted 33rd. Waters was 51st.

Edwards looked like he could be a rotation scorer coming off summer league. There was a job there for the taking. I think its fair to say he played below expectations in the regular season. Both guys played in the G-league and again, Edwards did what he did in college. He scored a lot (22.2 ppg), and shot 43% / 28% on 3's in the G-league. Those numbers don't get you an NBA job.

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2020, 12:50:15 PM »

Online Roy H.

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The rosiest scenario is something like: Isaiah Thomas with better defense.

At what point is a best case scenario entirely useless?  IT was an MVP candidate, putting up 29/6 on amazing efficiency.

If a computer simulated Edwards’ career 100m times, would it project a season like that for him even once?


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2020, 03:22:25 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Carsen Edwards could be an interesting starter.

G: Edwards
G: Smart
F: Jaylen
F: Tatum
C: Theis

Keep Jeff Teague and Tristan Thompson to bench roles to provide experience and stability to an inexperienced bench. You have Grant Williams there as well.

Let Smart start at PG and run the team. Let Edwards come in and play a low pressure role next to the stars. He doesn't need to do anything fancy. Just take outside shots inside the flow of the offense. A minor role to let him / help him get comfortable. Let Smart defend SGs. Carsen defend PGs. Edwards gives you some extra ball handling security.

A bit similar to letting Scalabrine start when KG was injured. Move him into a 18mpg starting role. Let the main bench players keep their primary roles and keep the main rotation in tact. Put a lesser talent bench player in as starter. Someone who can spread the floor and just keep things ticking along.

I have no doubt that Carsen Edwards could be an interesting starter, in fact I'm sure Carsen Edwards would be an interesting starter. Talk about thinking outside the box. TP for the idea.
i think you misspelled the word "inadequate."  ;D

i root for edwards a lot. but given his play last year, he would have to have one heck of a pre-season to earn a starting position.

He'd definitely be an interesting starter in China.

A TP for that wit. Well played, sir.

But I think that you’re underestimating him. Boston gave him a contract with a low risk to the team - and a recognition that it might take a while.

I think that a couple of things are clear going forward: he can get an open shot for himself; and he’s a competitor.

That first is more important than it might appear to the casual fan, who likely replies, “So what, he’s got to make them!” - which is a good point, as far as it goes. Does that mean his upside is Terry Rozier with less length? Maybe.

Terry’s role expanded in Charlotte, with a modest uptick in assist% - and also in turnover %. Those numbers look about like Marcus Smart’s. Mostly the shots he creates are for himself. He shot over .400 from 3, which is golden, especially for a guy who can get a shot off the dribble and isn’t afraid of the moment. As we saw when he was in Boston, he got into the paint off the dribble, too, though his finishing was uninspiring.

Carsen did one thing last year that Terry has never come close to and that is in fact rare in the NBA - he was effective on the dreaded long 2’s - .529 on a small but not useless sample size (17 shots). He’s got a couple of different ways of getting those shots off the dribble with a shot fake at the arc and one or two dribbles going either right or left into that big open area that NBA defenses are mostly conceding nowadays. A guy who can reliably get you more than a point on a possession is an asset on offense.

Will Edwards eventually shoot at least an average % from 3? I’d bet on it. The form is excellent, the drive to improve is there, and he’s already got sidestep moves to either side to get a good look at the rim. The safety valve move to the wide-open long 2 is golden if last year’s % is real. That alternative means he’s not stuck with having to take a challenged 3 on a short clock.

The rosiest scenario is something like: Isaiah Thomas with better defense. But he’s got two high bars to get over first: he’s got to get to the rim and finish; and he’s got to get shots for his teammates. The first of those looks more likely, but he’s got a long way to go with the second. For my money, those are the two things to watch.

He’s an NBA player. I wouldn’t predict that he’ll retire in Boston, but I would predict that he’ll have a long career.

Look at his shooting numbers at Perdue. I don't know why the C's thought he'd be an NBA player. He's tough, confident and can create his own shots, but wasn't an an efficient shooter in college, so why would he be better in the NBA?

It’s a safe bet that the Boston brass were aware of whatever shooting numbers you’re looking at when they decided to pick him.

Waters is better at everything. Pritchard almost certainly is too.

The coaching staff were raving about Waters after SL 2019. And yet management only gave him a 2-way contract, while giving Edwards long-term money. It’s worth asking why they did that.

You certainly seem sure of yourself.

He's only 5'11 but he has a 6'6 wingspan and he's built like a tank.

I would add that he's got exceptional lower body strength, balance, and burst; an explosive first step, and excellent handles. He can get open going to either hand. These characteristics are the result of his hard work.

His turnover % was under 10 - as a rookie. Had only four ballhandling turnovers on the season. Casual fans don't pay attention to things like that, but coaches sure do.

Edwards looked like he could be a rotation scorer coming off summer league. There was a job there for the taking.

There was no need for more bench scoring on last year's Celtics. On the contrary, they had starters who should have gotten more shots - particularly Gordon Hayward, who opted out in order to play a greater role for the Hornets.

Not surprisingly, getting shots for Carsen Edwards was a low priority; his usage rate was under 19. No, there was no job available for yet another rotation scorer. They did get him some game reps being a lead guard, in NBA minutes comparable to Terry Rozier's rookie season.

I think its fair to say he played below expectations in the regular season.


You underestimate the Celtics' coaching staff and management. They do not lock players up for four years because of a SL performance. These are seasoned professionals. There were obviously fans who expected more scoring or higher shooting %s, but the people who are making these decisions are looking at a bigger view, both of what a player is doing and of what he could do in the future.

Mostly fans are looking at his outside shooting and declaring him below expectations, as you have done. This is turned around, in fact. It's his outside shooting that looks so promising for the future, while it's other aspects of his game that are holding him back and that he may never bring up to a rotation-player standard.

Management and coaches know that players get consistent results when they get consistent minutes; and there's no stat with more volatility than 3-pt%.

He was money above the right break, and worthy of a green light above the left break. So expanding into straight on and the corners is next; but this doesn't begin to account for why he's worth developing further, or why they gave him several years to develop.

All 3's are not created equal. He's getting his shots on his own, off the dribble. Spot-ups are easier. He's shooting the longer 3's, mostly not in the corners. Those are harder.

Furthermore, as I was saying above, he's got a shot fake and a dribble or two to get him an open shot at either elbow. These are the dreaded long 2's that the analytics people don't like; but he shot it at a high enough % that it's a good shot, and that is a very valuable skill in today's game, since most defenses don't defend it. League average is something like .8 points per shot, while Carsen shot 1.06 pps on long 2's, and even better with shot fake 3/dribble to the elbows.

He scored a lot (22.2 ppg), and shot 43% / 28% on 3's in the G-league.

I'm going to keep campaigning on this: we need to recognize that FG% in this era is not so much a worthless stat as a deceptive one - and this is a prime example, since Carsen shoots so many 3's.

He shot .567 from 2 in the G-League, largely because he was getting to the rim and finishing. This is reason to be optimistic about his ability to do that in the Big Show, as I was saying above.

Those numbers don't get you an NBA job.

Erm... he has an NBA job right now.

Numbers are important - it's a bottom line game, after all. But not all numbers are created equal. Carsen Edwards has a bright NBA future because he can create open shots off the dribble without turning it over. That's a big deal.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 03:33:49 PM by Hoopvortex »
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2020, 01:35:55 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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The rosiest scenario is something like: Isaiah Thomas with better defense.

At what point is a best case scenario entirely useless?  IT was an MVP candidate, putting up 29/6 on amazing efficiency.

It’s crucially useful. If you want to be great you look at what the great ones did.

There are thousands of nuts-and-bolts issues: when after you beat your man do you slow down and get him on your back? How do you turn your torso to help you get your heel around his back heel? Someone who is a master at doing what you do and want to do should be your constant study.

If I’m a coach I want to show him how a player like IT balances his outside shooting, driving, and setting up teammates. And I’m definitely telling him that it’s possible for him to achieve what Isaiah achieved. Work. Study video. Work. Repeat.

If a computer simulated Edwards’ career 100m times, would it project a season like that for him even once?

I for one would be interested; if you do that, please let us know.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2020, 02:35:24 PM »

Offline gift

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The rosiest scenario is something like: Isaiah Thomas with better defense.

At what point is a best case scenario entirely useless?  IT was an MVP candidate, putting up 29/6 on amazing efficiency.

If a computer simulated Edwards’ career 100m times, would it project a season like that for him even once?

I'm not sure a computer would project even one year like that for IT.

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2020, 04:14:39 PM »

Offline moiso

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The rosiest scenario is something like: Isaiah Thomas with better defense.

At what point is a best case scenario entirely useless?  IT was an MVP candidate, putting up 29/6 on amazing efficiency.

It’s crucially useful. If you want to be great you look at what the great ones did.

There are thousands of nuts-and-bolts issues: when after you beat your man do you slow down and get him on your back? How do you turn your torso to help you get your heel around his back heel? Someone who is a master at doing what you do and want to do should be your constant study.

If I’m a coach I want to show him how a player like IT balances his outside shooting, driving, and setting up teammates. And I’m definitely telling him that it’s possible for him to achieve what Isaiah achieved. Work. Study video. Work. Repeat.

If a computer simulated Edwards’ career 100m times, would it project a season like that for him even once?

I for one would be interested; if you do that, please let us know.
You can teach Edwards certain skills that IT had but you can't teach him IT's feel for the game.

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2020, 09:47:43 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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The rosiest scenario is something like: Isaiah Thomas with better defense.

At what point is a best case scenario entirely useless?  IT was an MVP candidate, putting up 29/6 on amazing efficiency.

If a computer simulated Edwards’ career 100m times, would it project a season like that for him even once?

I'm not sure a computer would project even one year like that for IT.

I'd invite you to try it out. I'll take an interest even if no one else does.

But for something like this what you get out is going to depend on what you put in. And what you put in is careers from comparable players. To get a bigger sample size you use more unlike comps; but the bigger uncertainties come from not including the key physical and mental facts in a player.

It's not just a question of the accuracy; I raised the comparison of Carsen and Isaiah (which seems to have touched a nerve) because Isaiah makes a good model for developing Carsen's game.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2020, 11:11:15 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Carsen Edwards could be an interesting starter.

G: Edwards
G: Smart
F: Jaylen
F: Tatum
C: Theis

Keep Jeff Teague and Tristan Thompson to bench roles to provide experience and stability to an inexperienced bench. You have Grant Williams there as well.

Let Smart start at PG and run the team. Let Edwards come in and play a low pressure role next to the stars. He doesn't need to do anything fancy. Just take outside shots inside the flow of the offense. A minor role to let him / help him get comfortable. Let Smart defend SGs. Carsen defend PGs. Edwards gives you some extra ball handling security.

A bit similar to letting Scalabrine start when KG was injured. Move him into a 18mpg starting role. Let the main bench players keep their primary roles and keep the main rotation in tact. Put a lesser talent bench player in as starter. Someone who can spread the floor and just keep things ticking along.

I have no doubt that Carsen Edwards could be an interesting starter, in fact I'm sure Carsen Edwards would be an interesting starter. Talk about thinking outside the box. TP for the idea.
i think you misspelled the word "inadequate."  ;D

i root for edwards a lot. but given his play last year, he would have to have one heck of a pre-season to earn a starting position.

He'd definitely be an interesting starter in China.

A TP for that wit. Well played, sir.

But I think that you’re underestimating him. Boston gave him a contract with a low risk to the team - and a recognition that it might take a while.

I think that a couple of things are clear going forward: he can get an open shot for himself; and he’s a competitor.

That first is more important than it might appear to the casual fan, who likely replies, “So what, he’s got to make them!” - which is a good point, as far as it goes. Does that mean his upside is Terry Rozier with less length? Maybe.

Terry’s role expanded in Charlotte, with a modest uptick in assist% - and also in turnover %. Those numbers look about like Marcus Smart’s. Mostly the shots he creates are for himself. He shot over .400 from 3, which is golden, especially for a guy who can get a shot off the dribble and isn’t afraid of the moment. As we saw when he was in Boston, he got into the paint off the dribble, too, though his finishing was uninspiring.

Carsen did one thing last year that Terry has never come close to and that is in fact rare in the NBA - he was effective on the dreaded long 2’s - .529 on a small but not useless sample size (17 shots). He’s got a couple of different ways of getting those shots off the dribble with a shot fake at the arc and one or two dribbles going either right or left into that big open area that NBA defenses are mostly conceding nowadays. A guy who can reliably get you more than a point on a possession is an asset on offense.

Will Edwards eventually shoot at least an average % from 3? I’d bet on it. The form is excellent, the drive to improve is there, and he’s already got sidestep moves to either side to get a good look at the rim. The safety valve move to the wide-open long 2 is golden if last year’s % is real.

The rosiest scenario is something like: Isaiah Thomas with better defense. But he’s got two high bars to get over first: he’s got to get to the rim and finish; and he’s got to get shots for his teammates. The first of those looks more likely, but he’s got a long way to go with the second. For my money, those are the two things to watch.

He’s an NBA player. I wouldn’t predict that he’ll retire in Boston, but I would predict that he’ll have a long career.

I wish I could buy into and get attached to these young players the way some other posters do.

Somehow I don’t think that you’re being entirely sincere... 😜

Who knows? Maybe Carsen will find a role, but it doesn't bode well that a guy billed as a shooter has yet to show that he can shoot at the NBA level. It's like James Young all over again.

It doesn’t bode ill, either. That was his rookie year, aged 21. And while I have no stake in your ‘insulting’ James Young, they aren’t very much alike, either in the kind of game they play or in their work ethics or in their repertoire of useful NBA skills.

His 3-pt shooting was 24/76. That’s a small enough sample size that a make or a miss one way or the other makes a big difference for percentages. If he’d made 28 of those he’d be above league-average. That is clearly attainable.

Notice also the degree of difficulty of his shots - mostly above the break, usually off the dribble. Those are more difficult.

I pointed out above that he was also effective on long 2’s (.529) - that is a rare NBA skill, if he can sustain it, and he can get those shots anytime.


To be continued, for sure, but the year 1 results for his long-range shooting are very encouraging.

Just because you mentioned him in comparison to Isaiah (an insult to IT)

What I said was the rosiest scenario was IT with better defense. I don’t flatter myself that other posters are parsing every nuance of my posts. Still, that’s pretty straightforward.

As for ‘insulting’ IT - really? On the contrary, I was using him as the paragon of the scoring point with speed, handles, range, and short stature. My prediction for Carsen was in fact specifically not IT, as I thought should have been obvious.

I detailed what I think are the two main areas where Edwards is lacking (and where Thomas was not), and predicted that he’d improve getting to the rim and finishing but I was doubtful that he’d become good at creating shots for teammates.

It did occur to me that Thomas is a good ideal for Edwards in another way – namely, that he was grossly underestimated and had to earn everything he got.

Did you really just say that a 76-shot sample size for threes is "a small enough sample size that a make or a miss one way or the other makes a big difference for percentages" while quoting your previous post that used a 17-shot sample to justify your claim that "Carsen did one thing last year that Terry has never come close to and that is in fact rare in the NBA - he was effective on the dreaded long 2’s?"

If 9/17 is "a small but not useless sample size," what is 24/76?

EDIT: And what is the addition 33/118 he shot in the G League?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 11:20:18 PM by GetLucky »

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2020, 08:02:04 AM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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Carsen is trash. Straight trash.

Who knows, maybe someday he catches lighting in the bottle and makes it all work and he becomes an IT level contributor. But the chances of that happening is incredibly slim.

Thomas showed good immediately in the league shooting 44% and 38% from 2 and 3 respectively.
Carsen shot 33% and 31% and an abysmal 68% from the FT line.

In the G League Carsen is 43%, 27% and 74% from 2,3 and FT respectively

That is trash. If you are criminally undersized in the NBA you had better be a great shooter.

Carsen needs sold off immediately when some team might actually be intrigued by his "potential" There are alot of players still available as free agents that would be far better for the team than Edwards at this point.

'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2020, 08:40:48 AM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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He shot .567 from 2 in the G-League, largely because he was getting to the rim and finishing. This is reason to be optimistic about his ability to do that in the Big Show, as I was saying above.



Numbers are important - it's a bottom line game, after all. But not all numbers are created equal. Carsen Edwards has a bright NBA future because he can create open shots off the dribble without turning it over. That's a big deal.

He isnt creating open shots.
he had 41 unassisted layups (He averaged 3.5 fast break points per game, so take at least 6 of these "creations" away)
12 unassisted 5-9 footers
4 unassisted 10-14 footers
7 unassisted 15-19 footers
and 5 unassisted 20-23 footers

He "created" 17 points under 5 foot distance and he "created" a grand total of 30 points from between 5 feet and the 3pt line.


https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1629035/boxscores-traditional/

And he committed 37 turnovers in 13 games
And he was blocked on 11 attempts as well.

He had a net rating of 3.

He barely impacted winning in the Gleague at 28% usage.

Waters did everything better than Carsen did in the Gleague.


The team gave him a 4 year contract cause it was worth the gamble. Lock a kid up on the cheap, worst case scenario is he is trade fodder.



'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2020, 11:16:12 AM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Carsen is trash. Straight trash.


Brilliant analysis. Inspirational. Dignified. Restores my faith in the power of athletics to uplift the human spirit.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Full Ainge press conference - media day
« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2020, 11:31:32 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Carsen is trash. Straight trash.


Brilliant analysis. Inspirational. Dignified. Restores my faith in the power of athletics to uplift the human spirit.
Rofl
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)