CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: saltlover on June 18, 2018, 12:38:55 AM
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We all largely agree that Terry Rozier had a good season last year, but how good is up to debate. Looking at some of his advanced gestalt stats, like VORP, BPM, and Win Shares paints the picture of a player who had a overall positive impact, but how good is a 2.0 VORP relative to his peers? Using basketball-reference’s player season finder, we can help answer these questions.
I looked at VORP, BPM, Win shares, and WS/48 for all players classified as only guards. This means players who are listed as PG, SG, or both, but who are not also listed as SF. This will mean we get virtually every PG outside Ben Simmons, combo guards (players like Harden and McCollum) and pure SGs like Redick, but we exclude wings like Jimmy Butler. This seems like the correct peer group to compare Rozier against. Since VORP and Win Shares are counting stats, I did not adjust for minutes played. For BPM and WS/48 I required a minimum of 1000 minutes played (which is a really low threshold in my mind, but I didn’t want to be accused of excluding too many players — 103 players qualify at this level).
Here’s how he stacks up:
VORP: 18th
Win Shares: 19th
BPM: 15th
WA/48: 15th
These are full season numbers. Rozier played even better towards the end of the season and into the playoffs. His playoff BPM of 4.5 would have been 9th overall for the full season. Obviously the sample is smaller as he played 1/3 of the minutes and 1/4 of the games, but it was also against a higher level of competition.
To be honest, I was quite surprised by these numbers. I was expecting to see him around the 30 range, making him a fringe starter. But to be inside the top 20 for all of them, and 15th in the rate stats, indicates that he’s a legit starting-caliber guard in the league. Additionally, every player ahead of him is older. With continued growth to his game (which seems possible if you merely project out a full season at the same level of production as his playoff stats) even calling him a fringe All-Star wouldn’t be hyperbole. (His playoff BPM of 4.5 was between Oladipo’s 4.9 and Kemba Walker’s 3.2).
So was Terry a top-20 guard last season? Could he be this year? Could he be in the top 10-15 within the next two seasons? Is he primed for an Oladip-level jump soon? Again, his playoff numbers projected to a full season are right in line with Oladipo’s this year, and his regular season numbers are also in line with VO’s Year 3 numbers.
And if he really is a top-20 guard, heading on his way to the 10-15 range, what do you do with him? I’ve been in the camp that the absolute least I’d accept in draft night trade is #12 straight up, but having looked at this, I think even that is off, and I doubt I’d be okay with anything less than #9 straight up. And if you could get him to take the same money you’re willing to pay Smart, at this point I would choose Terry over Marcus, which is a statement I’m really surprised to type.
Late night food for thought.
(P.S. I know advanced stats are not the end-all, but he also clearly passed the eye test on the court, and the team performed tremendously well with him in a major role, so the advanced stats are simply another confirmation, and not a statistic devoid of context.)
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I don't think he was a top 20 guard.
He surpassed all my expectations this year but he's still a streaky shooter and a bad defender who isn't someone I'm comfortable with running my offense.
I'm not familiar with the draft this year outside the top few guys so I can't put a pick # I'd trade for him.
I'd much rather keep Marcus because with Irving, Tatum and Hayward on the team I think smarts defense is more crucial than Roziers scoring
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We all largely agree that Terry Rozier had a good season last year, but how good is up to debate. Looking at some of his advanced gestalt stats, like VORP, BPM, and Win Shares paints the picture of a player who had a overall positive impact, but how good is a 2.0 VORP relative to his peers? Using basketball-reference’s player season finder, we can help answer these questions.
I looked at VORP, BPM, Win shares, and WS/48 for all players classified as only guards. This means players who are listed as PG, SG, or both, but who are not also listed as SF. This will mean we get virtually every PG outside Ben Simmons, combo guards (players like Harden and McCollum) and pure SGs like Redick, but we exclude wings like Jimmy Butler. This seems like the correct peer group to compare Rozier against. Since VORP and Win Shares are counting stats, I did not adjust for minutes played. For BPM and WS/48 I required a minimum of 1000 minutes played (which is a really low threshold in my mind, but I didn’t want to be accused of excluding too many players — 103 players qualify at this level).
Here’s how he stacks up:
VORP: 18th
Win Shares: 19th
BPM: 15th
WA/48: 15th
These are full season numbers. Rozier played even better towards the end of the season and into the playoffs. His playoff BPM of 4.5 would have been 9th overall for the full season. Obviously the sample is smaller as he played 1/3 of the minutes and 1/4 of the games, but it was also against a higher level of competition.
To be honest, I was quite surprised by these numbers. I was expecting to see him around the 30 range, making him a fringe starter. But to be inside the top 20 for all of them, and 15th in the rate stats, indicates that he’s a legit starting-caliber guard in the league. Additionally, every player ahead of him is older. With continued growth to his game (which seems possible if you merely project out a full season at the same level of production as his playoff stats) even calling him a fringe All-Star wouldn’t be hyperbole. (His playoff BPM of 4.5 was between Oladipo’s 4.9 and Kemba Walker’s 3.2).
So was Terry a top-20 guard last season? Could he be this year? Could he be in the top 10-15 within the next two seasons? Is he primed for an Oladip-level jump soon? Again, his playoff numbers projected to a full season are right in line with Oladipo’s this year, and his regular season numbers are also in line with VO’s Year 3 numbers.
And if he really is a top-20 guard, heading on his way to the 10-15 range, what do you do with him? I’ve been in the camp that the absolute least I’d accept in draft night trade is #12 straight up, but having looked at this, I think even that is off, and I doubt I’d be okay with anything less than #9 straight up. And if you could get him to take the same money you’re willing to pay Smart, at this point I would choose Terry over Marcus, which is a statement I’m really surprised to type.
Late night food for thought.
In fairness to this analysis, I think that it would be best to really only examine the numbers from the time in which Rozier took over from Kyrie until the end of Game 7, given that that is the best sample size of the former's production in a starting role and, thus, with more minutes, obviously, would you not agree?
Now in terms of as to what the Celtics should do with him, man, it's tough, as I've come to be a fan of Rozier's, but with Kyrie coming back, Terry's value, much like that of Perk and Big Baby following Boston's elimination by the Magic in 2009, will never be higher, so my gut tells me to strike while the iron is hot and move him to Minnesota for Justin Patton, but Irving's Carl Pavano-like durability ::) certainly gives me pause insofar as such a possible move is concerned.
Perhaps it's best to wait until after the draft to complete said transaction, anyway, as by that time we'll at least know as to whether or not we have someone who could, at least theoretically, fill Smart's and Rozier's shoes, respectively #HelloRawleAlkins, lol ;D.
If we're trading him on draft night, however, who would you target and why? That's probably as to where we should start, in all honesty.
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We all largely agree that Terry Rozier had a good season last year, but how good is up to debate. Looking at some of his advanced gestalt stats, like VORP, BPM, and Win Shares paints the picture of a player who had a overall positive impact, but how good is a 2.0 VORP relative to his peers? Using basketball-reference’s player season finder, we can help answer these questions.
I looked at VORP, BPM, Win shares, and WS/48 for all players classified as only guards. This means players who are listed as PG, SG, or both, but who are not also listed as SF. This will mean we get virtually every PG outside Ben Simmons, combo guards (players like Harden and McCollum) and pure SGs like Redick, but we exclude wings like Jimmy Butler. This seems like the correct peer group to compare Rozier against. Since VORP and Win Shares are counting stats, I did not adjust for minutes played. For BPM and WS/48 I required a minimum of 1000 minutes played (which is a really low threshold in my mind, but I didn’t want to be accused of excluding too many players — 103 players qualify at this level).
Here’s how he stacks up:
VORP: 18th
Win Shares: 19th
BPM: 15th
WA/48: 15th
These are full season numbers. Rozier played even better towards the end of the season and into the playoffs. His playoff BPM of 4.5 would have been 9th overall for the full season. Obviously the sample is smaller as he played 1/3 of the minutes and 1/4 of the games, but it was also against a higher level of competition.
To be honest, I was quite surprised by these numbers. I was expecting to see him around the 30 range, making him a fringe starter. But to be inside the top 20 for all of them, and 15th in the rate stats, indicates that he’s a legit starting-caliber guard in the league. Additionally, every player ahead of him is older. With continued growth to his game (which seems possible if you merely project out a full season at the same level of production as his playoff stats) even calling him a fringe All-Star wouldn’t be hyperbole. (His playoff BPM of 4.5 was between Oladipo’s 4.9 and Kemba Walker’s 3.2).
So was Terry a top-20 guard last season? Could he be this year? Could he be in the top 10-15 within the next two seasons? Is he primed for an Oladip-level jump soon? Again, his playoff numbers projected to a full season are right in line with Oladipo’s this year, and his regular season numbers are also in line with VO’s Year 3 numbers.
And if he really is a top-20 guard, heading on his way to the 10-15 range, what do you do with him? I’ve been in the camp that the absolute least I’d accept in draft night trade is #12 straight up, but having looked at this, I think even that is off, and I doubt I’d be okay with anything less than #9 straight up. And if you could get him to take the same money you’re willing to pay Smart, at this point I would choose Terry over Marcus, which is a statement I’m really surprised to type.
Late night food for thought.
In fairness to this analysis, I think that it would be best to really only examine the numbers from the time in which Rozier took over from Kyrie until the end of Game 7, given that that is the best sample size of the former's production in a starting role and, thus, with more minutes, obviously, would you not agree?
Now in terms of as to what the Celtics should do with him, man, it's tough, as I've come to be a fan of Rozier's, but with Kyrie coming back, Terry's value, much like that of Perk and Big Baby following Boston's elimination by the Magic in 2009, will never be higher, so my gut tells me to strike while the iron is hot and move him to Minnesota for Justin Patton, but Irving's Carl Pavano-like durability ::) certainly gives me pause insofar as such a possible move is concerned.
Perhaps it's best to wait until after the draft to complete said transaction, anyway, as by that time we'll at least know as to whether or not we have someone who could, at least theoretically, fill Smart's and Rozier's shoes, respectively #HelloRawleAlkins, lol ;D.
If we're trading him on draft night, however, who would you target and why? That's probably as to where we should start, in all honesty.
If you look at Terry only from his 1st start in late January through the playoffs, he’d grade out higher. Unfortunately I don’t have a way to do that and to also compare it to other players. But his full season numbers are worse than the roughly 50 game sample you’re asking about.
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I don't think he was a top 20 guard.
He surpassed all my expectations this year but he's still a streaky shooter and a bad defender who isn't someone I'm comfortable with running my offense.
I'm not familiar with the draft this year outside the top few guys so I can't put a pick # I'd trade for him.
I'd much rather keep Marcus because with Irving, Tatum and Hayward on the team I think smarts defense is more crucial than Roziers scoring
There are a lot of questions I have about this post, but the one that really jumps out at me is why aren’t you comfortable with Rozier running an offense? I thought he showed terrific decision-making, especially given the situation he was thrown into. A 5:1 assist-to-turnover ratio for a PG in a deep playoff run is really quite outstanding.
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I don't think he was a top 20 guard.
He surpassed all my expectations this year but he's still a streaky shooter and a bad defender who isn't someone I'm comfortable with running my offense.
I'm not familiar with the draft this year outside the top few guys so I can't put a pick # I'd trade for him.
I'd much rather keep Marcus because with Irving, Tatum and Hayward on the team I think smarts defense is more crucial than Roziers scoring
There are a lot of questions I have about this post, but the one that really jumps out at me is why aren’t you comfortable with Rozier running an offense? I thought he showed terrific decision-making, especially given the situation he was thrown into. A 5:1 assist-to-turnover ratio for a PG in a deep playoff run is really quite outstanding.
I’m with sports17. I think rozier played WAY over his head in the playoffs. He’s not even a starter in my eyes. Streaky backup who’ll make you pull your hair out at times.
I don’t want him running my team either, as that’s his biggest weakness. He really is a step slow on recognizing even basic offensive plays. Doesn’t/can’t make the simple play, which is frustrating.
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I don't think he was a top 20 guard.
He surpassed all my expectations this year but he's still a streaky shooter and a bad defender who isn't someone I'm comfortable with running my offense.
I'm not familiar with the draft this year outside the top few guys so I can't put a pick # I'd trade for him.
I'd much rather keep Marcus because with Irving, Tatum and Hayward on the team I think smarts defense is more crucial than Roziers scoring
There are a lot of questions I have about this post, but the one that really jumps out at me is why aren’t you comfortable with Rozier running an offense? I thought he showed terrific decision-making, especially given the situation he was thrown into. A 5:1 assist-to-turnover ratio for a PG in a deep playoff run is really quite outstanding.
I have to think that this primarily owes to the fact that the guy has simply never been able to run any kind of an offense, lol, as he simply isn't a point guard, hence the reason for our "half-court offense" "operating" through Horford.
Sure, Rozier has an excellent assist-to-turnover ratio, but much like Smart, I'd argue that at least a good deal of his ill-advised shots essentially make for, well, turnovers, anyway, unfortunately :-\, if that makes any sense.
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Arguably top 3 in the playoffs after what he did to the 76ers
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I don't think he was a top 20 guard.
He surpassed all my expectations this year but he's still a streaky shooter and a bad defender who isn't someone I'm comfortable with running my offense.
I'm not familiar with the draft this year outside the top few guys so I can't put a pick # I'd trade for him.
I'd much rather keep Marcus because with Irving, Tatum and Hayward on the team I think smarts defense is more crucial than Roziers scoring
There are a lot of questions I have about this post, but the one that really jumps out at me is why aren’t you comfortable with Rozier running an offense? I thought he showed terrific decision-making, especially given the situation he was thrown into. A 5:1 assist-to-turnover ratio for a PG in a deep playoff run is really quite outstanding.
One of the really bright spots in our playoff run to me was how well Terry handled the ball. He really limited the dumb turnovers, bad passes and impressed me with the development of his poise under pressure.
Now I completely agree that he takes some bad shots, maybe not as many as smart takes but it is there. Maybe some are confusing taking bad shots with not running the team well. They seem different issues to me.
I am probably one of the few that doesn't think we should trade Terry this summer. I think we bring him back for a title run next year. I would rather have a better shot at getting to the finals this coming year than trading him for a draft pick in the 10-15 range, which is what I have been reading people think he is worth.
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I don't think he was a top 20 guard.
He surpassed all my expectations this year but he's still a streaky shooter and a bad defender who isn't someone I'm comfortable with running my offense.
I'm not familiar with the draft this year outside the top few guys so I can't put a pick # I'd trade for him.
I'd much rather keep Marcus because with Irving, Tatum and Hayward on the team I think smarts defense is more crucial than Roziers scoring
Game 7 is one of the reasons why I can't trust him leading the offense in the long-run.
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I don't think he was a top 20 guard.
He surpassed all my expectations this year but he's still a streaky shooter and a bad defender who isn't someone I'm comfortable with running my offense.
I'm not familiar with the draft this year outside the top few guys so I can't put a pick # I'd trade for him.
I'd much rather keep Marcus because with Irving, Tatum and Hayward on the team I think smarts defense is more crucial than Roziers scoring
Game 7 is one of the reasons why I can't trust him leading the offense in the long-run.
This line of thinking completely ignores his 28/7 line on 10-16 shooting with 1 turnover in Game 6 on the road. Terry and Brown get criticized for Game 7, but Game 6 they scored 55 of the team’s 99 points on only 34 shots and 1 combined turnover. That was a potential series clinching performance on the road, but their teammates, particularly Morris and Horford, didn’t show. Then LeBron went off and we got crushed on the boards.
There never should have been a Game 7.
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I don't think he was a top 20 guard.
He surpassed all my expectations this year but he's still a streaky shooter and a bad defender who isn't someone I'm comfortable with running my offense.
I'm not familiar with the draft this year outside the top few guys so I can't put a pick # I'd trade for him.
I'd much rather keep Marcus because with Irving, Tatum and Hayward on the team I think smarts defense is more crucial than Roziers scoring
There are a lot of questions I have about this post, but the one that really jumps out at me is why aren’t you comfortable with Rozier running an offense? I thought he showed terrific decision-making, especially given the situation he was thrown into. A 5:1 assist-to-turnover ratio for a PG in a deep playoff run is really quite outstanding.
He protects the ball well. I just don't see him as someone who can dissect a defense or create offense with his vision. I also don't think he's good passing out of the pick and roll which is something I think is really important.
He's never turned it over much, but I think his a/to ratio lies a little about how good of a passer he is.
But the big thing for me is his defense. he has no idea how to keep people in front of him and Clevelands entire game plan seemed to revolve around attacking him. Middleton abused him on switchs in rd 1 and the only game we lost in round 2 was in large part because he made TJ McConnell look like AI.
It was OK because we desperately needed his scoring but when Irving and Hayward are out there and Tatum continues to improve and Brown too, id rather have someone who can defend multiple positions and be an X factor on defense.
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I don't think he was a top 20 guard.
He surpassed all my expectations this year but he's still a streaky shooter and a bad defender who isn't someone I'm comfortable with running my offense.
I'm not familiar with the draft this year outside the top few guys so I can't put a pick # I'd trade for him.
I'd much rather keep Marcus because with Irving, Tatum and Hayward on the team I think smarts defense is more crucial than Roziers scoring
There are a lot of questions I have about this post, but the one that really jumps out at me is why aren’t you comfortable with Rozier running an offense? I thought he showed terrific decision-making, especially given the situation he was thrown into. A 5:1 assist-to-turnover ratio for a PG in a deep playoff run is really quite outstanding.
He protects the ball well. I just don't see him as someone who can dissect a defense or create offense with his vision. I also don't think he's good passing out of the pick and roll which is something I think is really important.
He's never turned it over much, but I think his a/to ratio lies a little about how good of a passer he is.
But the big thing for me is his defense. he has no idea how to keep people in front of him and Clevelands entire game plan seemed to revolve around attacking him. Middleton abused him on switchs in rd 1 and the only game we lost in round 2 was in large part because he made TJ McConnell look like AI.
It was OK because we desperately needed his scoring but when Irving and Hayward are out there and Tatum continues to improve and Brown too, id rather have someone who can defend multiple positions and be an X factor on defense.
I think Rozier will continue to improve on these areas. This season is kind of like his sophomore season since his rookie season had him rotting on the bench, and I still believe he can work on his defense and passing since he's still very much a raw player. I also want to add the point that if we think Kyrie can still improve, why can't Rozier make another leap as well? He's still 24 years old and this is the first season he started playing big minutes.
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I don't think he was a top 20 guard.
He surpassed all my expectations this year but he's still a streaky shooter and a bad defender who isn't someone I'm comfortable with running my offense.
I'm not familiar with the draft this year outside the top few guys so I can't put a pick # I'd trade for him.
I'd much rather keep Marcus because with Irving, Tatum and Hayward on the team I think smarts defense is more crucial than Roziers scoring
Game 7 is one of the reasons why I can't trust him leading the offense in the long-run.
This line of thinking completely ignores his 28/7 line on 10-16 shooting with 1 turnover in Game 6 on the road. Terry and Brown get criticized for Game 7, but Game 6 they scored 55 of the team’s 99 points on only 34 shots and 1 combined turnover. That was a potential series clinching performance on the road, but their teammates, particularly Morris and Horford, didn’t show. Then LeBron went off and we got crushed on the boards.
There never should have been a Game 7.
This is true but no one is even talking about bringing Morris back and the only reason he got minutes (in my opinion) was because he could do OK on James. The Cavs specifically attacked Rozier. Horford sucked in game 6 and disappeared down the stretch in game 7 and should get Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. for it.
I didn't think Rozier was as good in game 6 as his numbers suggested but game 7 was honestly not too surprising. He's a very streaky player. We all knew this coming in. That's who he is and who he's been. Unfortunately he sucked in a huge game. It happens. However, like he's done his whole career he showed 0 fear.
The problem with Terry is that when he's not scoring he's kinda useless. Can't really guard. Doesn't create for others. He does rebound well, but there's just too much time out there when he's giving you nothing.
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Remember when Rozier came to Boston, it was spaghetti sandwiches and his first year and under any pressure he panicked and did his crablike side to side spurt up court with no destination.The point of this is, not to poke fun or criticize.He was a naive kid when he arrived, raw but with gifted physical talents.He said it quite concisely recently, Kyrie is the point guard but everyday he going to compete with him and learn .Making them both better.
His first year with Red Claws was not wasted.
Now apprenticing behind Kyrie is a gift ,you can see already the use of backboard, the dribble splits ,floaters and off wrong foot technique. Even the realization that playing below rim or change of speed getting up shot can be an asset.
.Kyrie is a genius and a magician off the dribble and tantalizes with his shooting. Kyrie was number one pick and a 5 time all star groomed by his father who played the game to a very high level
-Rozier learned the game playing street ball on city courts but he is learning fast.There is a big difference from being a scorer to running a team with the talent Boston has.Listening to Kyrie speak about knowing he could beat that guy every time or get that shot but passing it up to keep his teammates in the game and in the flow.Maybe that applies to passing on certain players at certain times like Butler or Leona
.A spaghetti sandwich? i still eat peanut butter on white toast-
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It’s semantics, but a guy isn’t a top-20 guard if you exclude wings.
Second, advanced stats aren’t always that accurate.
Guys Rozier beat in Win Shares: Klay Thompson, Goran Dragic, Donovan Mitchell, Gary Harris, John Wall
Guys on that list Rozier is better than:
We also learn that Darren Collison is a “top 10 guard”, which sounds wonky.
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Top 20 PG = definitely. Not a top 20 guard but a top 20 PG. I am shocked by the number of people who think Rozier is only a bench player. He should be starting. Somewhere else (due to Kyrie). Unfortunately.
Rozier was special in the playoffs. He was a borderline top 10 PG. He has that talent. That potential. His floor leadership is sketchy but the rest of his game is strong enough to get him there.
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Stats are great but they are also used by folks like the OP to cherry pick and make a point. I think Terry is a starting caliber PG but I also think that there should be a more in depth analysis than several cherry-picked stats.
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he played like iit for stretches .
Gained consistency
Now he needs to sustain his better play , with fewer disappointment games.
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How is this player remotely close to being a top 20 guard.
1. Had a well below average TS of 52% (ranks 75th on OP's list) 53.8% in the playoffs.
2. Still has weak/poor court vision and is not a high level shot creator for his teammates.
3. Shot 50% in the regular season in the restricted area which is 2nd worst among all players
(178) that attempted at least 150 shots in the res. area, only Lonzo was worse. Rozier was
51.7% in the playoffs.
4. Is undersized and is problematic on switches, poor at fighting over screens and doesn't
create a high volume of turnovers etc..
Using OP's criteria I would place him somewhere between 45th and 50th. If you add in the other wings not included in the OP he would fall to like 65th-70th. If you add in the better guards/wings that were injured and didn't play 1000 minutes this year (Hayward, Beverly, Conley, Leonard, Thomas...) Rozier would fall somewhere around 75th. Rozier no matter where he plays would be in direct competition for minutes with all of the above.
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Just spit-balling, I'd take the following guards last year over Rozier: Irving, Westbrook, Curry, Harden, Lillard, Oladipo, Beal, Walker, McCullom, Mitchell, Thompson, Paul, Williams, Holliday, Lowry, and Dragic. That's 16 that were pretty clearly better last year.
Bledsoe, Murray, Schroeder, Harris, Evans, Smith Jr., Teague, Rubio, Dinwiddie, Collison, Lee, Bogdonavic (Sac), Hill, Mills, Reddick, Dunn, and Rondo are all probably in a similar tier to Rozier. Some are probably better and some are probably worse. Personally, I would take Rubio, Reddick, and G Harris over Rozier too. You could make the argument for others as well.
That doesn't include "guards" like DeRozan, Booker, Simmons, Lebron, Fournier, and George.
That also doesn't include Wall, Jackson, Brogdon, Bradley, and Russell who missed close to half the games. You could make the argument that Wall is more valuable in 41 games than Rozier in 82.
In other words, I think you could argue Rozier was in the 20-30 range last year, but not top 20.
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No, but he played like one at times in the playoffs, which is a pretty amazing get from your 3rd ballhandler and suggests he could get there in the next year or two.
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It’s semantics, but a guy isn’t a top-20 guard if you exclude wings.
Second, advanced stats aren’t always that accurate.
Guys Rozier beat in Win Shares: Klay Thompson, Goran Dragic, Donovan Mitchell, Gary Harris, John Wall
Guys on that list Rozier is better than:
We also learn that Darren Collison is a “top 10 guard”, which sounds wonky.
TP to Saltlover for the research and a good question.
The answer is no. The guys Roy listed show why this kind of comparison doesn't quite work and there are more names on that list that are more debatable but probably better than Rozier.
There's always going to be inherent problems comparing a backups to starters. But I think there are also problems with comparing Rozier's time as a starter to full time starters. Rozier took over as a starter in March. By that point in the season, most starters are in cruise control, looking to the playoffs (or their vacation) but Terry wasn't. Terry was looking to make the most of his time in the spotlight. He was energized. That changes how he played in those minutes in a way that probably isn't directly commutable to how he would play over a full regular season.
There are always lots of variables on the fringes that statistics don't find. I think this is a big example of one.
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He was more than adequate last season and certainly exceeded my expectations.
However, I'm not trading away Kyrie & handing this kid the keys.
The gap btw the two is pretty significant.
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Poor Klay Thompson. Always a statistical punching bag. He is my dream SG in our offense.
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Thanks saltlover...tp
I really like Rozier. He played out of his mind in the playoffs and what else can a team want?
Let's say he's the Celtic's back up PG next year and he actually has to start in the playoffs?
I suggest even Vegas won't adjust the spreads a great deal....they would adjust them though.
Statistically, he looks ok. Eye test, he looks great. I think Terry Rozier is always going to be stuck with "labels"....stylistically his game isn't as pretty as some PG's in his category and that hurts him. I just don't see him "starting for a contender."
Call me crazy, but he just finished "starting for a contender" and helped win a bunch of games.
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Thanks saltlover...tp
I really like Rozier. He played out of his mind in the playoffs and what else can a team want?
Let's say he's the Celtic's back up PG next year and he actually has to start in the playoffs?
I suggest even Vegas won't adjust the spreads a great deal....they would adjust them though.
Statistically, he looks ok. Eye test, he looks great. I think Terry Rozier is always going to be stuck with "labels"....stylistically his game isn't as pretty as some PG's in his category and that hurts him. I just don't see him "starting for a contender."
Call me crazy, but he just finished "starting for a contender" and helped win a bunch of games.
I am gonna call you crazy because I have no idea why else you contradicted yourself